Topic: The 'Eeeek...buying/saving for a house' thread

[Drinks Sangria]

After some advice - may not be the place for it.

Nearby to me, in the middle of nowhere in the countryside, a small Anglican Church has been listed for 'commercial sale.'

I'd love to buy it and convert it into a house - it's on a small lane with a few other houses so not too isolated, but still secluded feeling and close enough to a main road that it's not going to be a pain to get to. It's not sat on much land, but enough to have a decent sized garden and put a drive in.

It's on for £160k which seems suspiciously cheap for a detached building of that size in a village where property below £400k is a rarity - obviously this potentially reflects what would need spending on it to get it into a liveable state, as well as the fact it doesn't come with planning permission.

Has anyone done an ambitious renovation project/build? It may be pie in the sky - we'd need a fairly large finance package over the price of the building itself as it could cost anywhere between £80k - £150k to renovate. We'd need planning permission and also I believe permission from the church itself to 'deconsecrate' the site. It's Grade 2 listed too, which comes with challenges and there's internal features I absolutely would not want in my home, like a massive wooden Jesus I don't think it has a graveyard but if it did, that would kibosh the whole idea to begin with, my missus absolutely won't move somewhere with a graveyard (added to the implications of having to let people onto your property at any time).

Then there's the cost of an architect, the change of use etc. It could cost a couple of grand just chasing all this before finding it's too expensive/ not feasible. We had a chat about it last night and do think that it represents an area and project we'd happily make our future home 'forever' as it were. It may just all be a bit too much for someone with no (building) project management experience and only a vague idea as to how much work costs.

Anyone with experience in this kind of thing or just any general advice would be appreciated.

[reddebs]

After some advice - may not be the place for it.

Nearby to me, in the middle of nowhere in the countryside, a small Anglican Church has been listed for 'commercial sale.'

I'd love to buy it and convert it into a house - it's on a small lane with a few other houses so not too isolated, but still secluded feeling and close enough to a main road that it's not going to be a pain to get to. It's not sat on much land, but enough to have a decent sized garden and put a drive in.

It's on for £160k which seems suspiciously cheap for a detached building of that size in a village where property below £400k is a rarity - obviously this potentially reflects what would need spending on it to get it into a liveable state, as well as the fact it doesn't come with planning permission.

Has anyone done an ambitious renovation project/build? It may be pie in the sky - we'd need a fairly large finance package over the price of the building itself as it could cost anywhere between £80k - £150k to renovate. We'd need planning permission and also I believe permission from the church itself to 'deconsecrate' the site. It's Grade 2 listed too, which comes with challenges and there's internal features I absolutely would not want in my home, like a massive wooden Jesus I don't think it has a graveyard but if it did, that would kibosh the whole idea to begin with, my missus absolutely won't move somewhere with a graveyard (added to the implications of having to let people onto your property at any time).

Then there's the cost of an architect, the change of use etc. It could cost a couple of grand just chasing all this before finding it's too expensive/ not feasible. We had a chat about it last night and do think that it represents an area and project we'd happily make our future home 'forever' as it were. It may just all be a bit too much for someone with no (building) project management experience and only a vague idea as to how much work costs.

Anyone with experience in this kind of thing or just any general advice would be appreciated.

Bottomless pit comes to mind mate but if you've got access to sufficient funds and can find reliable architects and builders/contractors it's worth it.

As for the price, the reason it's suspiciously low is due to all the things you've listed.  If it had all the necessary permissions from planning, the church and listing consent it would be on at double that near enough.

I'd say your guestimate of £80-150k is most likely half of the eventual costs.

[Drinks Sangria]

Bottomless pit comes to mind mate but if you've got access to sufficient funds and can find reliable architects and builders/contractors it's worth it.

As for the price, the reason it's suspiciously low is due to all the things you've listed.  If it had all the necessary permissions from planning, the church and listing consent it would be on at double that near enough.

I'd say your guestimate of £80-150k is most likely half of the eventual costs.

Thanks for some guiding steer - you're almost definitely right, as a house that size in that area would be £500k+, so I doubt it would be on at £160k unless it needed £300k+ spending on it. I think like I said, it's a pipedream rather than a reality at present. We have by no means unrestricted finances and whilst spending £150k on it might be doable based on lending on other projects I've looked at, spending any more than that would be impossible at present.

I'm still going to ask a few questions to people in the know where I can, but I think there's too much red tape around the project before the cost even comes into play.

[reddebs]

Thanks for some guiding steer - you're almost definitely right, as a house that size in that area would be £500k+, so I doubt it would be on at £160k unless it needed £300k+ spending on it. I think like I said, it's a pipedream rather than a reality at present. We have by no means unrestricted finances and whilst spending £150k on it might be doable based on lending on other projects I've looked at, spending any more than that would be impossible at present.

I'm still going to ask a few questions to people in the know where I can, but I think there's too much red tape around the project before the cost even comes into play.

Yeah definitely get as much info and feedback as possible mate, especially from those qualified to give it. 

You can speak to planning and listed consent to get their views on what they'd allow before any decision on buying is taken for example.

Alan X on here I think is an architect maybe pm him for some advice too.

[Barneylfc∗]

Starting to look at buying. Probably a year or so away yet from being able to but looking at things now to get the lay of the land. Reading this thread it seems like it's a fucking right pain in the arse.

This may come a bit sooner than I initially thought.

What are the facts surrounding online gambling. Would a mortgage application get rejected outright if you do it? I do, a lot. The reason I am currently in a position to start looking is because of it, and my deposit will more or less come from it too. That and a chunk of Bitcoin.

By the end of today, I'll have paid off the remaining 7k debt that I owe (this was about 21k this time last year). By the end of May, I should have the best part of 15k or more towards a deposit.

If online gambling is a big issue, how many months of 'clean' bank statements do you need? Is it advisable to say you got your deposit from that and Bitcoin?

[Drinks Sangria]

This may come a bit sooner than I initially thought.

What are the facts surrounding online gambling. Would a mortgage application get rejected outright if you do it? I do, a lot. The reason I am currently in a position to start looking is because of it, and my deposit will more or less come from it too. That and a chunk of Bitcoin.

By the end of today, I'll have paid off the remaining 7k debt that I owe (this was about 21k this time last year). By the end of May, I should have the best part of 15k or more towards a deposit.

If online gambling is a big issue, how many months of 'clean' bank statements do you need? Is it advisable to say you got your deposit from that and Bitcoin?

I can't tell you about Bitcoin mate - I know it's still seen as very volatile by traditional lenders but I wouldn't want to speculate. What I will tell you, having worked in the gambling industry for a couple of years in my early 20s, is that it's extremely frowned upon by most mainstream lenders. Even if the amounts are small, lots of small transactions or less frequent but larger ones make you look like a risk. It got flagged on my first ever mortgage application and that was literally less than 20 bets, none more than a fiver, over Cheltenham years back.

Generally speaking, they will want 3 - 6 months 'clean' statements with no gambling on them to pass you, or alternatively, for you to be able to evidence that the amounts being gambled are tiny compared to income. Unfortunately, lenders will scrutinise deposits to gambling companies but ignore withdrawals from them - so even if you're routinely winning, you still look like a risk in their eyes. Maybe knock it on the head for a few months?

Gambling doesn't automatically mean no mortgage - it didn't stop me getting one, but the lender may often look to alleviate their risk with a higher interest rate. They're not there to judge you on what you spend it on (although does arbitrarily seem to be the case with gambling) but whether that spending makes you a future risk to their investment.

[Elmo!]

From what I have ready, someone putting a regular payment into a betting company isn't really an issue (like once a week to put some bets on at the weekend), it's when you are making multiple payments on the same day or within a short period of time that it can cause red flags.

[Barneylfc∗]

From what I have ready, someone putting a regular payment into a betting company isn't really an issue (like once a week to put some bets on at the weekend), it's when you are making multiple payments on the same day or within a short period of time that it can cause red flags.

There'd be days when I would make multiple deposits to multiple accounts for varying amounts. Definitely be red flags waved if I applied today 

[The G in Gerrard]

There'd be days when I would make multiple deposits to multiple accounts for varying amounts. Definitely be red flags waved if I applied today 

I'd deffo keep the bank accounts separate. You don't need to tell them you won the money?

[tubby]

I'd deffo keep the bank accounts separate. You don't need to tell them you won the money?

The estate agent I used wanted to know where my money had come from, but I was a cash buyer so it was a much larger amount.  They need to make sure they're covered against any sort of money laundering.

[Barneylfc∗]

I'd deffo keep the bank accounts separate. You don't need to tell them you won the money?

I've only got one bank account, so I suppose I could look at opening another one top keep normal day to day shit separate from betting. Wouldn't they want to see all your accounts though?

[Elmo!]

I've only got one bank account, so I suppose I could look at opening another one top keep normal day to day shit separate from betting. Wouldn't they want to see all your accounts though?

Just start sending me the money, and your betting account login details and I will deposit it for you.

[Barneylfc∗]

Just start sending me the money, and your betting account login details and I will deposit it for you.

 

That's another thing I suppose. I'm using someone else's account as I got restricted on mine. So she just sends me the winnings from her PayPal to mine when I withdraw. Varying amounts between £300-£1000 so I'm having those amounts as deposits on my account from PayPal. I assume they would question that?

[Drinks Sangria]

That's another thing I suppose. I'm using someone else's account as I got restricted on mine. So she just sends me the winnings from her PayPal to mine when I withdraw. Varying amounts between £300-£1000 so I'm having those amounts as deposits on my account from PayPal. I assume they would question that?

Almost definitely. As stated, regular, uniform deposits aren't a problem as long as they're not affecting your financial security. It's different deposits, at different times, varying in size that worry lenders - especially if you do quick deposits one after another - the assumption will be that you're chasing losses, regardless of the truth in the matter.

[The G in Gerrard]

I've only got one bank account, so I suppose I could look at opening another one top keep normal day to day shit separate from betting. Wouldn't they want to see all your accounts though?

I've got a separate one for it. I wasn't betting when going for a mortgage mind you.

Good to see your doing well though!

[Barneylfc∗]

Cheers for the advice folks. No doubt I'll have more novice queries going forward 

[gazzam1963]

An estate agent will ask for a dip ( decision in principle ) off your lender to make sure your able to go through with the purchase and not wasting there time , maybe if your a cash buyer you have to prove to them you have the cash to allow a viewing .

[rob1966]

This is not true. Estate Agents often tell you they need to see your source of funds. They don't. Its so they know how much money you've got and they can get the sellers to bump up the price and increase their comission. Money doesn't pass through the estate agents.

Your solicitors need to see proof of funds.

To add to this, we paid off a chunk of our mortgage a few years ago and had to show proof of where that money came from.

[Drinks Sangria]

Update on the church: Not happening 

I spoke with an architect and the local planning office - planning wouldn't be a major issue but there would be a number of specialists needed on the build, given there's a bell tower and a spire. A bloke I spoke to reckoned the build would cost roughly £1,500 per square metre, then £20k for the spire and £10k for the roof. The main issue and what completely kiboshes the whole idea for me is that they wouldn't allow and internal floor to be added to turn it into a two storey home. So essentially a floor/ceiling fitted so you had an upstairs. They said the most they would allow would be a small mezzanine, anything else ruins the church in their eyes. That means you'd have to have bedrooms on the ground floor if you wanted more than one room - which we would. And downstairs bedrooms kills spaces an office or dining room would be in.

Working it all out, probably closer to what Debs said, maybe £250k on top of the £160k for the building so it's a no go. Also would have to apply for something called 'deconsecration' where the Diocese of Liverpool would have to agree to make the site a non-religious ground. The issue with this is the Diocese apparently has the ability to place protective, prohibitive covenants on former Church sites, such as service charges and even stuff as ridiculous as the new occupiers not being able to drink alcohol on the property. The Diocese of Liverpool has also apparently got history for being difficult to work with on this.

So it's a no go apparently. My mind is at rest though - I wanted to exhaust all avenues and ensure it definitely couldn't be done rather than sit and think we should have gone for it. Appreciate the responses though! Back to a more traditional house-hunt.

[gazzam1963]

Update on the church: Not happening 

I spoke with an architect and the local planning office - planning wouldn't be a major issue but there would be a number of specialists needed on the build, given there's a bell tower and a spire. A bloke I spoke to reckoned the build would cost roughly £1,500 per square metre, then £20k for the spire and £10k for the roof.

Working it all out, probably closer to what Debs said, maybe £250k on top of the £160k for the building so it's a no go. Also would have to apply for something called 'deconsecration' where the Diocese of Liverpool would have to agree to make the site a non-religious ground. The issue with this is the Diocese apparently has the ability to place protective, prohibitive covenants on former Church sites, such as service charges and even stuff as ridiculous as the new occupiers not being able to drink alcohol on the property. The Diocese of Liverpool has also apparently got history for being difficult to work with on this.

So it's a no go apparently. Appreciate the responses though! Back to a more traditional house-hunt.

The church on edge lane / durning road corner was developed a few years ago and had had flats extended on to it , I actually think it looks better than just a church laying derelict and Empty .

[Mumm-Ra]

Update on the church: Not happening 

I spoke with an architect and the local planning office - planning wouldn't be a major issue but there would be a number of specialists needed on the build, given there's a bell tower and a spire. A bloke I spoke to reckoned the build would cost roughly £1,500 per square metre, then £20k for the spire and £10k for the roof. The main issue and what completely kiboshes the whole idea for me is that they wouldn't allow and internal floor to be added to turn it into a two storey home. So essentially a floor/ceiling fitted so you had an upstairs. They said the most they would allow would be a small mezzanine, anything else ruins the church in their eyes. That means you'd have to have bedrooms on the ground floor if you wanted more than one room - which we would. And downstairs bedrooms kills spaces an office or dining room would be in.

Working it all out, probably closer to what Debs said, maybe £250k on top of the £160k for the building so it's a no go. Also would have to apply for something called 'deconsecration' where the Diocese of Liverpool would have to agree to make the site a non-religious ground. The issue with this is the Diocese apparently has the ability to place protective, prohibitive covenants on former Church sites, such as service charges and even stuff as ridiculous as the new occupiers not being able to drink alcohol on the property. The Diocese of Liverpool has also apparently got history for being difficult to work with on this.

So it's a no go apparently. My mind is at rest though - I wanted to exhaust all avenues and ensure it definitely couldn't be done rather than sit and think we should have gone for it. Appreciate the responses though! Back to a more traditional house-hunt.

Hard to get a good spire guy these days 

[Claire.]

The issue with this is the Diocese apparently has the ability to place protective, prohibitive covenants on former Church sites, such as service charges and even stuff as ridiculous as the new occupiers not being able to drink alcohol on the property.

What the fuck? Don't they drink alcohol in church?

[Drinks Sangria]

What the fuck? Don't they drink alcohol in church?

Not too sure, it's Church of England as opposed to Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, so whilst I haven't been in a church (other than for a wedding) since Primary School, I can't say that I've known whether the blood of Christ is consumed in this sort of church 

[Slippers]

Not too sure, it's Church of England as opposed to Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, so whilst I haven't been in a church (other than for a wedding) since Primary School, I can't say that I've known whether the blood of Christ is consumed in this sort of church 

I wonder how they'd enforce such a rule?

Maybe send the vicar round twice a month to inspect the cocktail cabinet and confiscate any intoxicating beverages.

[Drinks Sangria]

I wonder how they'd enforce such a rule?

Maybe send the vicar round twice a month to inspect the cocktail cabinet and confiscate any intoxicating beverages.

Yeah surely it's a waste of their time and effort, but if they weren't going to attempt to enforce it, what's the point in insisting on it as a covenant anyway? Nuts some of these protective covenants, they're essentially impossible to legally remove without the consent of the holder, even if they're stupid ones, such as the above.

It all falls under ecclesiastical law as enforceable though. Hide the ale when the parishioners knock on.

[rob1966]

Yeah surely it's a waste of their time and effort, but if they weren't going to attempt to enforce it, what's the point in insisting on it as a covenant anyway? Nuts some of these protective covenants, they're essentially impossible to legally remove without the consent of the holder, even if they're stupid ones, such as the above.

It all falls under ecclesiastical law as enforceable though. Hide the ale when the parishioners knock on.

You'd be OK if it was Catholics, the priest was always drinking the booze on home visits, be pissed as a fart by the time he got home.

[LiamG]

Quick question, there's a house for sale local that i am interested in, Only thing is, it's being rented out until march 2022

So if i was to buy it obviously i'd have to honour the tenancy but what about tax and so on?

[Barneylfc∗]

When a house is listed as "Offers over £xxxxx" is there a general guide as to how much over the offer price you should bid? Any point in doing an Arsenal and bidding £xxxxx + £1 

[Slippers]

When a house is listed as "Offers over £xxxxx" is there a general guide as to how much over the offer price you should bid? Any point in doing an Arsenal and bidding £xxxxx + £1 

Depends on the sellers,some use the 'offers over £xxxx' as a way of letting prospective buyers know they're not prepared to accept an offer below £xxxx.

Others are prepared to take five or ten grand less than £xxxx.A neighbour's house was on the market for offers over  £210,000 earlier this year and she accepted £185,000.

[Claire.]

I don't think you should pay all that much attention to the figure they put on it or 'offers over' etc, you're the buyer and if you don't think it's worth that much then make your bid, can only say no and then you can see if you're prepared to go higher.

Like Slippers says, sometimes the evaluation or what the seller wants just isn't going to happen so they reduce or will take a lower bid.

[Drinks Sangria]

I don't think you should pay all that much attention to the figure they put on it or 'offers over' etc, you're the buyer and if you don't think it's worth that much then make your bid, can only say no and then you can see if you're prepared to go higher.

Like Slippers says, sometimes the evaluation or what the seller wants just isn't going to happen so they reduce or will take a lower bid.

The rapidity of house sales at the moment combined with the stamp duty holiday has had the effect of many chancing their arm with ridiculisu asking prices. Initially, houses were selling extremely quickly but all of a sudden there's starting to be a slight build up of 'stock,' in desirable areas because people are just asking silly prices.

3 months ago a house we were interested in sold at £50k less than is now being asked for in the sale of the near-identical home next door. People are getting greedy and it will start to result in a rebalancing of the market you'd hope. Or desperation will get people to pay way over the odds. Lenders not agreeing on the value of a house that a buyer has offered to pay has been one of the main reasons mortgages have been falling through of late eg buyer wants house and is desperate for it so agrees to pay £300k on something that was £250k 9 months ago, survey comes back valuing house at £260k and lender refuses to lend the full amount.

[Elmo!]

When a house is listed as "Offers over £xxxxx" is there a general guide as to how much over the offer price you should bid? Any point in doing an Arsenal and bidding £xxxxx + £1 

I got my flat for £8000 below the "Offers over" asking price. That said I live in a place where unusually for the UK property prices have been declining for years.

[The G in Gerrard]

Scottish market follows that offers over policy. Dislike it.

[Elmo!]

Scottish market follows that offers over policy. Dislike it.

Mine is in Scotland... Offer over doesn't actually mean you have to offer over.

[Slippers]

Scottish market follows that offers over policy. Dislike it.

It's been creeping in here for a while,seems to have replaced 'offers in the region of'.

I don't like it either.

[Mark Walters]

It's been creeping in here for a while,seems to have replaced 'offers in the region of'.

I don't like it either.

It's not as bad as "guide price"

[Slippers]

It's not as bad as "guide price"

Or POA.

If you have to ask how much you can't afford it.

[TOGH]

This may come a bit sooner than I initially thought.

What are the facts surrounding online gambling. Would a mortgage application get rejected outright if you do it? I do, a lot. The reason I am currently in a position to start looking is because of it, and my deposit will more or less come from it too. That and a chunk of Bitcoin.

By the end of today, I'll have paid off the remaining 7k debt that I owe (this was about 21k this time last year). By the end of May, I should have the best part of 15k or more towards a deposit.

If online gambling is a big issue, how many months of 'clean' bank statements do you need? Is it advisable to say you got your deposit from that and Bitcoin?

Had a similar problem when sorting my remortgage recently, was trying to reduce my term and increase my monthly payments.  Original lender didn't specifically say it was because of the gambling transactions but it most likely was.

Had a word with an IFA and they were able to sort it for me with one of the lenders they knew wouldn't ask for bank statements.

Definitely worth speaking with an IFA / Mortgage broker and explaining your situation to them, they should be able to work it out somehow for you.  You will still probably need to provide evidence for source for funds for the AML checks the solicitors will do though.

Would also recommend trying to keep the gambling transactions off your main bank account (fairly easy to set up a Monzo / Starling account to use solely for them).

[LiamG]

Quick question, there's a house for sale local that i am interested in, Only thing is, it's being rented out until march 2022

So if i was to buy it obviously i'd have to honour the tenancy but what about tax and so on?

Anyone?

[Drinks Sangria]

Anyone?

Sorry mate - you'd have to pay tax on the income dependent on the bracket your total earnings come under. I'm assuming it's being sold as 'tenant in situe' which means you assume the responsibility, their agreement and the income. If it's not listed as that and it's specified you're merely purchasing the house with it going to you March 2022, I don't believe you'd have obligations but it would be an odd way to sell a property.

Let's say for argument's sake you're earning £25k at the moment, and earned £5k off this rental - you'd be taxed 20% bracket on the difference between your basic allowance at £12,750 and the total amount, £30k, minus property allowance.

You'd have to do a self-assessment based on just the rental income and pay based on the above. However, the first £1,000 of rental income is tax free, which is your 'property allowance,' per property, so there's actually £4k taxable. You would need to register before October for self assessment or it carries over into the next tax year, so a bigger bill.