Topic: Qatar's True WC Legacy: news and reports on the human cost of sportswashing.

[Crosby Nick]

E2K - what happened in 86? From distant memory there was an earthquake in Mexico but they still held it. Was it moved from Colombia or are you saying FIFA moved it from mexico to Colombia (and then presumably moved it back?).

[SP]

E2K - what happened in 86? From distant memory there was an earthquake in Mexico but they still held it. Was it moved from Colombia or are you saying FIFA moved it from mexico to Colombia (and then presumably moved it back?).

Wiki version:

Colombia was originally chosen as hosts by FIFA in June 1974. However, the Colombian authorities eventually declared in November 1982 that they could not afford to host the World Cup under the terms that FIFA demanded because of economic concerns. Mexico was selected on 20 May 1983 as the replacement hosts, beating the bids of Canada and the United States (who eventually hosted the 1994 World Cup), and thereby became the first nation to host two World Cups. This second World Cup in Mexico came 16 years after the first one in 1970. A severe earthquake in September 1985, eight months before the tournament, cast doubt over Mexico's ability to organize the event, but the stadia were not affected and it was decided to go ahead with the preparations.

[Schmidt]

I'm pretty sure all of the controversy over this will make it the most watched World Cup ever.

[Circa1892]

Wouldn't be entirely surprised if, in the not so distant future, some big clubs make murmurings about refusing to release their players for it etc. This one is going to rumble on for years...

[AB LFC]

I'm pretty sure all of the controversy over this will make it the most watched World Cup ever.

Or the most boycotted.

[justsean]

Or the most boycotted.

I and all my mates who would usually travel over together for these tournaments won't be going to it, that's for sure. But I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't watch the games on the telly.

[E2K]

E2K - what happened in 86? From distant memory there was an earthquake in Mexico but they still held it. Was it moved from Colombia or are you saying FIFA moved it from mexico to Colombia (and then presumably moved it back?).

Have a look here. Not sure if this link will work or not, it's an extract of the relevant section from google books. Have a read, it's a really interesting book this one.

[Schmidt]

Or the most boycotted.

How many people who watch the World Cup are genuine football fans though?

[Pricey]

Has anyone said what everyone is thinking about the world cup being given to Qatar?

Am i even allowed to say it?

Someone please say it....

[Zeb]

Blatter is meant to have been against the Qatari bid but couldn't control the rest of the mob from taking the pourboire on offer from Qatar. (see Andrew Jennings work). Blatter's also said that there was strong political interference with the process in Europe from countries keen to trade votes for investment from the Gulf States. FIFA's been corrupt since Havalange took control of it. It's the rights holders of the media who'll make a difference, and if the Premier League remains as strong as it is (75%* 16% of players in the last world cup came from Premier League clubs), and Murdoch's hold on rights remain as strong as it currently is... that means Rupert Murdoch (and his heir/s) are the leverage against FIFA. Fun.

*screw you Andrew Jennings, you may be a fine investigative journalist but you can't count for shit.

[Ray K]

Let's not automatically blame Sepp Blatter and Sepp Blatter only (though that's usually my default position and almost always correct).

Qatar was a charge led (outside Qatar) by Michel Platini  (the Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove to Blatter's David Cameron - if there's a stupid, ill-considered, frankly insulting suggestion to be made, there's Platini).

After lobbying intensively for Qatar 2022 (Europe were getting 2018 so Platini was happy enough), it turns out that Platini's son has a cushy directorship with QSI (the Qatari fund that own Paris SG).

But everything is above board here, don't look at the man behind the curtain..

[Circa1892]

Let's not automatically blame Sepp Blatter and Sepp Blatter only (though that's usually my default position and almost always correct).

Qatar was a charge led (outside Qatar) by Michel Platini  (the Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove to Blatter's David Cameron - if there's a stupid, ill-considered, frankly insulting suggestion to be made, there's Platini).

After lobbying intensively for Qatar 2022 (Europe were getting 2018 so Platini was happy enough), it turns out that Platini's son has a cushy directorship with QSI (the Qatari fund that own Paris SG).

But everything is above board here, don't look at the man behind the curtain..

Platini's the biggest, most corrupt c*nt in sport.

[scared_person]

Blatter is meant to have been against the Qatari bid but couldn't control the rest of the mob from taking the pourboire on offer from Qatar. (see Andrew Jennings work). Blatter's also said that there was strong political interference with the process in Europe from countries keen to trade votes for investment from the Gulf States. FIFA's been corrupt since Havalange took control of it. It's the rights holders of the media who'll make a difference, and if the Premier League remains as strong as it is (75% of players in the last world cup came from Premier League clubs), and Murdoch's hold on rights remain as strong as it currently is... that means Rupert Murdoch (and his heir/s) are the leverage against FIFA. Fun.

Sorry, but that can't be even nearly true.

[Ray K]

Sorry, but that can't be even nearly true.

From Wikipedia, 2010 WC: Of the 736 players participating in the tournament, over half played their club football in five European domestic leagues; those in England (117 players), Germany (84), Italy (80), Spain (59) and France (46).

[Zeb]

Sorry, but that can't be even nearly true.

You're right, I was using numbers from an interview and should have checked. It's actually 16%.

[00jebus]

Has anyone said what everyone is thinking about the world cup being given to Qatar?

Am i even allowed to say it?

Someone please say it....

It was a shocking and disgraceful choice of venue, given it has no footballing history, apparently no respect towards people of other religions or cultures (which is especally stupid given this is football, the worlds game that everyone can play and enjoy!), would require the FIFA calander to change which disrupts most of the club sides in the most important leagues and has little in the way of infastructure. And it should really be investigated as to why this was allowed to happen, because it looks an awful lot like corruption and bribary must have went on, in the eyes of this outsider.

Can't be in Europe or South America, as they'd be the last two, so should have been the US or Japan.

[JTK]

It was a shocking and disgraceful choice of venue, given it has no footballing history, apparently no respect towards people of other religions or cultures (which is especally stupid given this is football, the worlds game that everyone can play and enjoy!) and little in the way of infastructure. And it should really be investigated as to why this was allowed to happen, because it looks an awful lot like corruption and bribary must have went on, in the eyes of this outsider.

Can't be in Europe or South America, as they'd be the last two, so should have been the US or Japan.

Totally agree with all of this, that's without even mentioning the heat which threatened the competition to be moved to winter. Pathetic choice of venue.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Can't be in Europe or South America, as they'd be the last two, so should have been the US or Japan.

Australia.

Simple enough venue.

[Redman0151]

Totally agree with all of this, that's without even mentioning the heat which threatened the competition to be moved to winter. Pathetic choice of venue.

It's an utter disgrace and what's even more infuriating is that it's horribly clear for the world to see yet we can't do anything about it. Considering most won't want to do Russia that means the nearest WC to go to is 2026

[ChaChaMooMoo]

'No decision yet' on Qatar World Cup.

Fifa has moved quickly to play down claims from its own general secretary that the Qatar 2022 World Cup will not take place in the summer.

The sport's governing body stressed no final decision will be taken until after the 2014 World Cup and only after lengthy consultation.

 It comes after Jerome Valcke told Radio France: "The dates for the World Cup will not be June-July."

He suggested it could take place between 15 November and 15 January.

Fifa president Sepp Blatter had already said the tournament would take place in November or December, with organisers in Qatar still hopeful of hosting it in June and July.

Following Valcke's Radio France interview, a Fifa spokesperson said the general secretary had only been expressing "his view".

The spokesperson added: "The precise event date is still subject to an ongoing consultation process which involves all main event stakeholders, including both the international football community - Fifa confederations, member associations, leagues, clubs, players - as well as Fifa's commercial partners.

 "The consultation process will not be rushed and will be given the necessary time to consider all of the elements relevant for a decision.

"No decision will be taken before the upcoming 2014 Fifa World Cup Brazil as agreed by the Fifa executive committee."

The Qatar 2022 Supreme committee said they "will be ready to host the World Cup regardless of the outcome of the consultation."

Britain's Fifa vice-president Jim Boyce said he was "totally surprised" at Valcke's statement and confirmed the decision had to be taken by the executive committee.

The scheduling of the tournament has been debated since it was controversially awarded to Qatar in December 2010.

Fears have been raised that the summer heat in the Gulf emirate would be dangerous for players and fans alike.

Valcke said: "If you play between 15 November and the end of December, that's the time when the weather conditions are best, when you can play in temperatures equivalent to a warm spring season in Europe, averaging 25 degrees. That would be perfect for playing football."

 If the World Cup does go ahead at the end of 2022, it could pose problems for the Africa Cup of Nations, which is scheduled for January 2023.

Blatter said two months ago that a firm decision on dates for the 2022 World Cup will be made in December 2014.

Qatar organisers have indicated it would be happy to switch to a winter World Cup.

Failed bidders Australia have vowed to seek compensation from Fifa if the 2022 World Cup is played in winter.

None of the 19 World Cups to date have ever been played outside the months of May, June or July.

---- BBC

[00jebus]

Australia.

Simple enough venue.

Would also be a good choice too, although we'd all have to get up really early.... I suppose we'd know how Aussie fans feel all the time!
Don't know how some of the media down there would take it though, aren't they currently trying to whip the general population into an uproar about "sokkah hooligans" and insisting the game isn't australian enough? Can't imagine they'd take it well if they had a world cup to deal with. But lets see how they take that Asain cup thingy they've got coming up.

[Skeeve]

I'm pretty sure all of the controversy over this will make it the most watched World Cup ever.

Viewing figures are likely to be higher because no bugger is going to want to go there to watch them live.

[Cu Chulainn]

Australia.

Simple enough venue.

But do Australians (at large) care enough about football? I know there are lots of Australians who love the sport, you could see that from when we played in Melbourne in the summer, but it's still a minority sport. I know this might not be how the people who run the game think, but I think the World Cup should always be in a footballing stronghold. Infact, I know that's not how the decision-makers think, otherwise it would never have gone to Qatar. That was a ridiculous decision and is yet more proof that money talks.

I know it's not as simple as to just suggest a venue because there are many variables involved (economics, politics, etc), but I think Mexico would be a good choice.

But I'd still rather Australia OR the United States than Qatar.

[Redman0151]

But do Australians (at large) care enough about football? I know there are lots of Australians who love the sport, you could see that from when we played in Melbourne in the summer, but it's still a minority sport. I know this might not be how the people who run the game think, but I think the World Cup should always be in a footballing stronghold. Infact, I know that's not how the decision-makers think, otherwise it would never have gone to Qatar. That was a ridiculous decision and is yet more proof that money talks.

I know it's not as simple as to just suggest a venue because there are many variables involved (economics, politics, etc), but I think Mexico would be a good choice.

But I'd still rather Australia OR the United States than Qatar.

They've had it in USA before when it was definitely a minority sport then

[Chakan]

They've had it in USA before when it was definitely a minority sport then

Still is.

[00jebus]

But do Australians (at large) care enough about football?

Well, those of us that sometimes do watch the A league, know that the crowds that WSW and Melbourne Victory bring in, and the crowds at Melbourne and Sydney derbies, Brisbane Roar play in front of half a stadium worth of people most of the time but they have a 50k seater, so, make it seem they do care about the sport. But the A league doesn't have teams in Canberra, Darwin, North Queensland or Tazmania, 4 places with decent sized populations, and some of them may snub their local teams for whatever reason.

I think its probably best to see what any Aussie reds have to say about this, they would know their country and its opinions about football far better than any of us who are trying to gauge it from crowds in games we watch when we have just woken up!

[Redman0151]

Still is.

Indeed but it's catching on a lot more now

[pudgethemidget]

Indeed but it's catching on a lot more now

In fact, the world cup was in part used as a way to try to promote the game in the USA and if I remember correctly, kick-started the MLS.


And to add, it's definitely not a minority sport anymore like it used to be. It's grown leaps and bounds since the 06 world cup and notably the surge from Beckham; which was a big reason for coming over seas.

[OzBomber]

But do Australians (at large) care enough about football? I know there are lots of Australians who love the sport, you could see that from when we played in Melbourne in the summer, but it's still a minority sport. I know this might not be how the people who run the game think, but I think the World Cup should always be in a footballing stronghold. Infact, I know that's not how the decision-makers think, otherwise it would never have gone to Qatar. That was a ridiculous decision and is yet more proof that money talks.

I know it's not as simple as to just suggest a venue because there are many variables involved (economics, politics, etc), but I think Mexico would be a good choice.

But I'd still rather Australia OR the United States than Qatar.

When the World Cup comes around, the whole country gets behind it. We get up at all hours to watch them play in the World Cup (We get millions of viewers for games at 2-3am and streets are packed.  Same as when the Olympics come around. I think the fact that 95,000 went to a friendly involving Liverpool (and 83,000 for a game in Sydney involving United 4 days earlier and also had an 83,000 sell out crowd for a World Cup Qualifier against Iraq) shows that Australia cares about the sport. The league down here is still only less than 10 years old but it's building every year and the support is getting stronger and stronger. Of course it will never be as big as the local codes in Aussie Rules and Rugby which have 150 years of tradition and support but it may be able to get close.

We've got a proven history of putting on massive sports events. We host the Australian Open every year, Australian Grand Prix, we've had extremely successful Olympics (arguably the greatest ever) and Commonwealth games, I don't see why we wouldn't get behind a World Cup.

[Sweeney94]

But do Australians (at large) care enough about football? I know there are lots of Australians who love the sport, you could see that from when we played in Melbourne in the summer, but it's still a minority sport. I know this might not be how the people who run the game think, but I think the World Cup should always be in a footballing stronghold. Infact, I know that's not how the decision-makers think, otherwise it would never have gone to Qatar. That was a ridiculous decision and is yet more proof that money talks.

I know it's not as simple as to just suggest a venue because there are many variables involved (economics, politics, etc), but I think Mexico would be a good choice.

But I'd still rather Australia OR the United States than Qatar.

Check out Western Sydney's RBB and you will see that Aussies actually care a lot! I think its more of a problem that the standard of the A-League is so poor which is why it doesn't really get big crowds. If a World Cup came to Australia I'm fairly confident almost every game would be sold out, well in Perth where I live I know they certainly would be.

It would be amazing for us as we need new stadiums, especially Perth, so it gives us an excuse to fast-track stadiums which will be used for AFL also so they won't just sit there. Melbourne already has a couple at the very least ready for use.

It would be amazing for our economy and I think we would host a very good World Cup. I can see FIFA fucking fans over if it was to happen though by sending them to Melbourne, Perth, Sydney etc etc. So it becomes to expensive for people to want to experience the tournament, just like what they did with Brazil.

[Sweeney94]

In fact I can guarantee that 90%+ minimum of the tickets were sold. Each city has a very strong, committed football base. In Perth for example all qualifying games would be sold easy, no matter who's playing. People just want to see World Cup games.

I'm sure Melbourne will be the exact same. And Sydney. And Brisbane. Not to mention Australian fans (thousands upon thousands) would travel all over the country to see big games. A lot of people here are committed to the game. I reckon even some of my AFL loving mates would want to come for the experience.

Such a disgrace that we didn't get it

[OzBomber]

In fact I can guarantee that 90%+ minimum of the tickets were sold. Each city has a very strong, committed football base. In Perth for example all qualifying games would be sold easy, no matter who's playing. People just want to see World Cup games.

I'm sure Melbourne will be the exact same. And Sydney. And Brisbane. Not to mention Australian fans (thousands upon thousands) would travel all over the country to see big games. A lot of people here are committed to the game. I reckon even some of my AFL loving mates would want to come for the experience.

Such a disgrace that we didn't get it

The RBB (besides the violence) is the best thing to have happened to this league. They are bringing renewed passion and fans to local football which is great. I've got some mates who despised the sport and now love going to games because of what they've seen from the RBB and Victory.

Our actual bid was fucking awful though. It was more an tourism advertisement for our country rather than a 'you should bring the World Cup here' type of pitch. If memory serves me correctly every other bid had some sort of emotional appeal to it (along with $$$$$$).

In terms of timezone being difficult for Europeans, it depends when matches would be played. For the group stages you would have 3 games a day, most likely 1pm (4am in England), 3:30pm (6:30am) and 7:30pm (10:30am). Night games in Perth would likely start around 9:30pm (7:30 in perth, 12:30pm in England). The times would be no where near as bad as Australians have to deal with, unless you had the early game.

[only6times]

On the news last night, Syrian peace talks scheduled to start have halted because Qatar (who are backing the Syrian opposition) objected to iran being invited.

[beardsley4ever]

I can't go to Brazil this summer, which means at least 12 years until I can go to a World Cup again.  Definitely not going anywhere near Russia or Qatar for their World Cups.

[Ziltoid]

Australia will shut down for 5 weeks. I think itd be great.

[Bunter]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/24/qatar-2022-world-cup-185-nepalese-workers-died-2013

That is just fucking disgraceful. Greedy, corrupt bastards getting a WC, them and FIFA.

[Cave_Wang]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/24/qatar-2022-world-cup-185-nepalese-workers-died-2013

That is just fucking disgraceful. Greedy, corrupt bastards getting a WC, them and FIFA.

Its completely sickening! Football should rally around this somewhat like Liverpool supporters did for Hillsborough. The way money tarnishes so many things these days and takes out the heart from so many events like this .

 

[kavah]

^ the guardian have published the Indian figure today
(Sorry no link)

2012 - 237
2013 - 241
And 24 already in January of this year.

Staggering fatality rate.

And 4000 expected to die before the WC in 2022.

[Xxavi]

First team for Spain should be:
--------------------Casillas----------------
Azpilicueta---Pique----Ramos-------Alba
--------------Busquets-----------------
-----------Xavi----Iniesta--------
---Silva------Costa--------Pedro-----

2nd team:
--------------------Valdes----------------
Juanfran--Inigo Martinez---Puyol-------Alberto Moreno
--------------Alonso-----------------
-----------Cesc----Thiago--------
---Navas------Negredo--------Cazorla-----

3rd team:
-----------------Diego Lopez----------------
Iraola---Javi Martinez----Albiol-------Monreal
-----------------Iturraspe-----------------
-----------Illarramendi----Ander Herrera--------
---Mata------Llorente--------Koke-----

4th team:
-----------------De Gea----------------
Arbeloa--Chico-----Bartra-------Bernat
--------------Bruno Soriano-----------------
---------Mario Suarez----Benat--------
---Muniain------Michu--------Isco-----

That 4th team would do OK against most teams. I would have put Soldado in the first team, normally, but he really discredited himself this season. On last season's form, he'd be in the 4th team ahead of Michu probably.

[Fiasco]

The strength in depth Spain have is staggering. The 4th team you put out there mate would probably beat the current England side.