Author Topic: The barbarity that is Syria  (Read 388339 times)

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #680 on: January 21, 2014, 07:24:54 pm »
Systematic killing evidence in Syria just tip of iceberg - aid agencies
International bodies say evidence of execution of 11,000 detainees in regime jails comes from just one area of Syria

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/21/syrian-detainee-execution-evidence-aid-agencies
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Offline viteslesrouges

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #681 on: January 21, 2014, 07:59:32 pm »
I knew this would come. Not so quickly perhaps, but I knew it would come.

So you think de Silva, Crane and Nice are hired guns then? You think Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are front organisations for the US govt?

 No, but they're not the whiter than white organisations they profess to be. As for the US government, they've such a track record in the Near/Middle East to make everyone feel safe in their beds.

Quote
You think Assad couldn't possibly be killing and torturing thousands of political detainees?
He probably is and has done for many years. I'm no apologist for Assad and never would be but should the jihadi rebels win and oust him, a bloodbath will follow with all the Syrian minorities : Shia, Druze, Kurds, Assyrian Christians, Armenian Christians being victims.

What sticks in my craw is the double standards shown by the pro-rebel supporters, rebels who don't detain their murder victims, rebels who don't detain their torture victims.

Do you not think that this evidence has been released "just in time" for the Geneva talks? What are your thoughts on the political cynicism of that?

I also remember a short while ago that the Syrian government were guilty of using chemical weapons, since proved to have been false.

As an aside, I find it spectacular that whilst Cameron was keen for Western intervention to help the rebels in their struggle for freedom, when two British muslims returned from Syria via Turkey they were detained on terrorism charges.............
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Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #682 on: January 21, 2014, 08:04:00 pm »
As an aside, I find it spectacular that whilst Cameron was keen for Western intervention to help the rebels in their struggle for freedom, when two British muslims returned from Syria via Turkey they were detained on terrorism charges.............
Interesting, hadn't heard this.

Offline GREGtheRED

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #683 on: January 21, 2014, 08:45:46 pm »

As an aside, I find it spectacular that whilst Cameron was keen for Western intervention to help the rebels in their struggle for freedom, when two British muslims returned from Syria via Turkey they were detained on terrorism charges.............

Its not that spectacular.

Islamist rebel groups, including Al-Qaeda affiliated groups (who are growing in size and influence) make up the bulk of those now fighting al-Assad and his Shia alliance. If these Britons had been in Syria, fighting on the side of the rebels, it is highly likely they were fighting with jihadist groups who ideologically oppose much of what we hold dear in the UK, and, following the military training and islamic teachings they may have had, would obviously pose a significantly increased threat to our national security.

Cameron is a moron with no real grasp on the complexities of the ongoing conflict, or the fact that, in the simplest possible terms, there are now two lots of seriously nasty people fighting it out in Syria.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 08:49:43 pm by GREGtheRED »

Offline viteslesrouges

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #684 on: January 21, 2014, 09:03:09 pm »
http://www.channel4.com/news/syria-terror-men-charged-birmingham-arrested-heathrow

Quote
Two men from Birmingham are charged under the Terrorism Act over alleged travel to Syria, appearing before Westminster magistrates court on Saturday.

News
Yusuf Sawar and Mohammed Ahmed, both 21, from Handsworth in Birmingham, were arrested at Heathrow on Monday after returning to the UK from Turkey.

The pair are suspected of travelling to Syria, via Turkey, on May 15th last year, in order to engage in acts of terrorism.

They have been charged under Section 5 of the Terrorsim Act 2006.

On Saturday morning, they appeared in court for a brief hearing. Both men were denied bail and remanded in custody.

They will next appear at the Old Bailey on January 31.

In a separate incident, West Midlands have finished questioning a 21-year-old man from the Sheldon area of Birmingham at Gatwick Airport. He was detained by counter-terrorism police after returning from Istanbul, on suspicion of attending a terrorist training camp in Syria.

The man was questioned at a police station in the West Midlands before being released on police bail pending further enquiries.

Is it illegal to travel to Syria?

It is not actually illegal to travel to Syria - so why are we starting to see more arrests of people returning?

What matters is what an individual does when he or she gets to Syria. Many Brits have gone to deliver aid convoys or to volunteer at refugee camps. But others have joined opposition forces who are fighting President Assad's regime. It's estimated that between 200 and 400 British Muslims have gone to join Al-Qaeda-linked opposition groups such as Jabhat Al-Nusra or the Islamic State of Iraq and Sham (ISIS)

Although the British government has considered arming the rebels, any British individuals who fights with such groups could be prosecuted. The UK's anti-terror legislation allows individuals to be prosecuted here for terrorist offences that are committed abroad.

But proving that offences have been committed in a country like Syria, the most dangerous conflict zone in the world, can be extremely difficult.

There is evidence that the security services are tracking the movements of individuals. In the past week, five people have been arrested at airports, on flights to or from Istanbul. The main entry point into Syria is now across the Turkish border.

Passengers can be stopped at airports – or at any point or entry to / exit from the UK – under Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. They can be questioned, searched and held for a maximum of 9 hours.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #685 on: January 21, 2014, 09:24:27 pm »
That isn't as odd as it sounds. There are plenty of things which are crimes until they are government sanctioned. Imagine your gun mad neighbour showing up in a foxhole beside British troops in Iraq, and not subject to orders, and you get the idea.

Offline XabiAlonsosBeard

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #686 on: January 21, 2014, 09:37:28 pm »
I knew this would come. Not so quickly perhaps, but I knew it would come.

So you think de Silva, Crane and Nice are hired guns then? You think Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are front organisations for the US govt? You think Assad couldn't possibly be killing and torturing thousands of political detainees?

It's utterly ludicrous conspiracy theory stuff that people still spout such nonsense about America, Saudi, oil etc when there's so much objective and credible evidence out there to show that those aligned to the Assad regime are slaughtering people on a wholesale level.

From legitimate organisations like DEC, Amnesty, UNICEF etc.
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Offline AA1122

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #687 on: January 21, 2014, 09:52:51 pm »
Assad's brutality has absolutely ruined that country.

I also fear for the minorities after his fall. I do not believe this will end after his fall. A large proportion of people will want revenge and I agree with what Paul Danahar's book 'New Middle East' says about there being massacres of Alawites after he goes. Assad has put his own people and anyone in any way associated to him in a perilous position. His people will probably pay a heavy price for his regime's brutality. But, what can they do, if they leave or criticise him, they will be on the end of his brutality too and probably end up dead. I bet there are any people in Syria who are on Assad's side who hate him for the position he has put them in, but as they still live in government controlled areas, they are too scared to open their mouths.

As an aside...

I met a Syrian guy in 2009 on a train in Turkey, I was talking to him. It started as he politely told me that I should not eat the biscuits I was eating. "If you eat those biscuits in Syria, it means that you support the regime. Only people who support the regime eat those biscuits". I did not think much of it and carried on eating them. He had long frizzy black hair and a green bandana in his hair, he wore a normal summery t-shirt. He looked more Brazilian than Syrian, I told him so, and he remarked that "everybody tells me that".

We talked some more, I asked him where he was going and what he was doing. He told me he had been staying in Istanbul, staying wherever he could, and doing some DJ'ing part time for extra cash. He had overstayed his visa and was moving on to another country. "I have no money, just the money for my ticket". He told me that he could not live in Syria any more, it was not safe and many bad things were happening to people and that he had to leave. In my naivety I thought it was more of a lifestyle thing as he seemed such a chilled out nice guy. He joked about how the police in Syria stopped him and tried to arrest him for his hairstyle and he told them how the Prophet Muhammad had his hair like this. He did not seem particularly religious, he was friends with two other guys on the train and they called themselves Sufis. I never realised just how serious this was at the time and just how real the things he was telling me actually where, he seemed so normal and relaxed about it.

As the year went on, it became all to clear to me just how bad things were in Syria, as I watched more news and read more horrible things. I guess I just came across as a disinterested westerner to him when I think about it now. Not sure why I am writing about this, but I always think about him when I look into this thread and feel bad. I hope he is getting along well somewhere now. His name was Mohammed and he was a really nice guy.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 09:55:34 pm by AA1122 »
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Offline HaskoLFC

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #688 on: January 21, 2014, 10:09:24 pm »
"Highly credible evidence" of regime atrocities has been shown before and then later been shown to have been committed by the rebel side(s). The USA has been known to use photo "evidence" from Iraq and Afghanistan as "Syrian" and the cynic in me is loathe to swallow everything the USA/Saudi combine throw at us.
Not only is this evidence "highly credible" it's also been released at a highly convenient point, just before the multi-lateral talks to discuss regime-change (a la warmonger Kerry). How long have the 50,000 odd photos been available? Why have they been released today and not before?
It just seems to me that the USA/Saudi profession of outrage at crimes against humanity only applies when the politics work for them, otherwise they turn the blind eye.

God help the Christian communities in Syria should the Saudi backed jihadis oust Assad, what was once a country of a diverse religious mix will quickly become a Sunni hellhole, pretty much as we've seen in neighbouring Iraq.
Christians, Kurds and Druze have been attacked by the rebels and their villages destroyed but we hear precious little about this.

Spot on mate. ISIS - one of the rebel groups trying to get rid of the 'evil dictator' released a statement today saying "The sunni war against the shia is not a sectarian war. A sect is a part of..the shia have nothing to do with Islam."

You can only fear for what will happen if these al qaeda affiliated groups(e.g. ISIS, ISIL, Al Nusra front) manage to topple Assad.

With these kinds of situations where I am not sure who is good and who is not, I look at the supporters for each side. On the rebels side I see the USA, Saudi and Israel. You have to wonder why Israel supports the rebels when the moment they topple Assad, it is in the beliefs of Salafist Islam(followers include Bin Laden, Abu Humza etc) that they can and should destroy and kill non Muslims(non Muslims are those who dont believe in their strict interpretation of the religion..for this reason shias and many sunni Muslims are considered to be infidels and alright to kill). I personally feel there are a lot of countries with their own interests controlling this war and the 10000s of individuals displaced and murdered is simply 'collateral damage'.

Offline AA1122

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #689 on: January 21, 2014, 10:40:06 pm »

I am sure many people in this thread are aware of who ISIS are (and they absolutely sicken me). Just because they are bad, does not mean Assad is good. Many groups as part of the FSA and IF (Islamic Front) have had a 'crackdown' on ISIS in the past few weeks, they have been chased out of a lot of places very recently; no doubt in preparation for Geneva II. I have quoted a few articles below:

http://yallasouriya.wordpress.com/tag/isis-vs-fsa/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25606370
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syrias-threeway-war-free-syrian-army-rebels-fight-the-regime-and-now-the-islamists-9052660.html

It seems there's been a lot of movement before these talks with Iran being pulled out of the conference, the release of this documented mass torture and the crackdown on ISIS.
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #690 on: January 22, 2014, 12:13:51 am »
I'm no apologist for Assad and never would be but should the jihadi rebels win and oust him, a bloodbath will follow.

Well a bloodbath is already happening. Unless you think 130,000 people dead in eighteen months is normal stuff.

Do you not think that this evidence has been released "just in time" for the Geneva talks? What are your thoughts on the political cynicism of that?

I don't see any cynicism, sorry. And for sure you haven't come close to convincing me. I would think it deeply cynical if the authors of this report were leaned on by the United States to DELAY their findings until AFTER the Geneva talks. I think we all would - especially you (if you know what I mean).

I also remember a short while ago that the Syrian government were guilty of using chemical weapons, since proved to have been false.

I don't know where you get your information from. Russia Today? Some Baathist news agency? But it's wrong. 

I'm no apologist for Assad


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Offline viteslesrouges

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #691 on: January 22, 2014, 09:22:48 am »
Well a bloodbath is already happening. Unless you think 130,000 people dead in eighteen months is normal stuff.

I don't see any cynicism, sorry. And for sure you haven't come close to convincing me. I would think it deeply cynical if the authors of this report were leaned on by the United States to DELAY their findings until AFTER the Geneva talks. I think we all would - especially you (if you know what I mean).

Quote
I don't know where you get your information from. Russia Today? Some Baathist news agency? But it's wrong.
 

I saw this on last week's TV, British not RT......sorry to dispel your theory about me. ;D  BTW I've seen you use Russia Today as a stick to wave at other posters.....

 http://www.globalresearch.ca/un-weapons-inspector-syria-chemical-weapons-were-fired-from-rebel-held-territory/5365228

Quote
UN Weapons’ Inspector: Syria Chemical Weapons Were Fired from Rebel Held Territory

By Washington's Blog
Global Research, January 17, 2014
Washington's Blog
Region: Middle East & North Africa
Theme: Media Disinformation, US NATO War Agenda
In-depth Report: SYRIA: NATO'S NEXT WAR?
 1030   122  1    1436

 
 But U.S. Is Still Calling for Regime Change

The head of the UN weapons inspectors said that the American case for Syrian government firing chemical weapons was weak, because the rockets can only go 2 miles … but government-held territory is much further away.

Similarly, McClatchy reported yesterday:

A team of security and arms experts, meeting this week in Washington to discuss the matter, has concluded that the range of the rocket that delivered sarin in the largest attack that night was too short for the device to have been fired from the Syrian government positions where the Obama administration insists they originated.

***

The authors of a report released Wednesday said that their study of the rocket’s design, its likely payload and its possible trajectories show that it would have been impossible for the rocket to have been fired from inside areas controlled by the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad.

 Map of Damascus

 

Modified Grad missile

 

In the report, titled “Possible Implications of Faulty U.S. Technical Intelligence,” Richard Lloyd, a former United Nations weapons inspector, and Theodore Postol, a professor of science, technology and national security policy at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, argue that the question about the rocket’s range indicates a major weakness in the case for military action initially pressed by Obama administration officials.

***

To emphasize their point, the authors used a map produced by the White House that showed which areas were under government and rebel control on Aug. 21 and where the chemical weapons attack occurred. Drawing circles around Zamalka to show the range from which the rocket could have come, the authors conclude that all of the likely launching points were in rebel-held areas or areas that were in dispute. The area securely in government hands was miles from the possible launch zones.

In an interview, Postol said that a basic analysis of the weapon – some also have described as a looking like a push pop, a fat cylinder filled with sarin atop a thin stick that holds the engine – would have shown that it wasn’t capable of flying the 6 miles from the center of the Syrian government-controlled part of Damascus to the point of impact in the suburbs, or even the 3.6 miles from the edges of government-controlled ground.

He questioned whether U.S. intelligence officials had actually analyzed the improbability of a rocket with such a non-aerodynamic design traveling so far before Secretary of State John Kerry declared on Sept. 3 that “we are certain that none of the opposition has the weapons or capacity to effect a strike of this scale – particularly from the heart of regime territory.”

“I honestly have no idea what happened,” Postol said. “My view when I started this process was that it couldn’t be anything but the Syrian government behind the attack. But now I’m not sure of anything. The administration narrative was not even close to reality. Our intelligence cannot possibly be correct.”

Lloyd, who has spent the past half-year studying the weapons and capabilities in the Syrian conflict, disputed the assumption that the rebels are less capable of making rockets than the Syrian military.

“The Syrian rebels most definitely have the ability to make these weapons,” he said. “I think they might have more ability than the Syrian government.” [He's right.]

***

They said that Kerry’s insistence that U.S. satellite images had shown the impact points of the chemical weapons was unlikely to be true. The charges that detonate chemical weapons are generally so small, they said, that their detonations would not be visible in a satellite image.

The report also raised questions whether the Obama administration misused intelligence information in a way similar to the administration of President George W. Bush in the run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq.  [Correct, indeed.] Then, U.S. officials insisted that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein had an active program to develop weapons of mass destruction. Subsequent inspections turned up no such program or weapons.

“What, exactly, are we spending all this money on intelligence for?” Postol asked.

***

 

 Even the New York Times – one of the main advocates for the claims that the rockets came from a Syrian government base – has quietly dropped the claim.

But the U.S. is still taking the position that the only acceptable outcome for the coming Syria negotiations is for Assad to be replaced by the US-backed transitional government.

As with Iraq, the “facts” are being fixed around the policy.

Quote
Yes you are.
As I alluded to above, you don't know me or anything about me, your assumptions actually say a little bit about you.
In my eyes all sides in the Syrian conflict (there's certainly not just two) are as odious and violent as each other.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 09:25:32 am by viteslesrouges »
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #692 on: January 22, 2014, 09:32:11 am »
Ah, Michel Chossudovsky's ever reliable Global Research...

Globalresearch.ca (also under the domain name globalresearch.org) may best be described as a left-wing equivalent to WingNutDaily. It is the website of the Montreal-based non-profit The Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), founded by Michel Chossudovsky.

The website describes itself as an "independent research and media organization." Globalresearch.ca takes pride in being a reliable "alternative news" source serving as a major repository of a broad range of "news articles, in-depth reports and analysis on issues which are barely covered by the mainstream media" (such as the New World Order). Its politico-economic stance is strongly anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, anti-militarist, "internationalist but anti-globalization." Its view of science, the economy and geopolitics seems to be broadly conspiracist.

While many of Globalresearch.ca's articles discuss legitimate humanitarian or environmental concerns, the site has a strong undercurrent of reality warping and bullshit throughout its pages.

Despite presenting itself as a source of scholarly analysis, Globalresearch.ca mostly consists of polemics many of which accept (and use) conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and propaganda. The prevalent conspiracist strand relates to global power-elites (primarily governments and corporations) and their New World Order. Specific featured conspiracy theories include those addressing 9/11, vaccines, genetic modification, Zionism, HAARP, global warming, and David Kelly. Analyses of these issues tend follow the lines of the site's political biases.

Apparently, contributors to Globalresearch.ca consider information sourced from anyone who seems aligned to their ideology as reliable; during the 2011 Libyan civil war the site was an apologist for Muammar al-Gaddafi, reproducing his propaganda and painting him as a paragon of a modern leader. It's no surprise then that the site has long become a magnet for radicals, fringe figures and crank elements from the left in general. And ironically, it has more in common with its writers' enemies and wingnut rivals than they would ever admit.


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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #693 on: January 22, 2014, 09:53:42 am »
I saw this on last week's TV, British not RT......sorry to dispel your theory about me.   

Not a theory. Just a question. There's quite a difference.

Although after seeing Gulley's post I begin to see where you're coming from.
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #694 on: January 22, 2014, 10:08:02 am »
In my eyes all sides in the Syrian conflict (there's certainly not just two) are as odious and violent as each other.

You're right about the number of 'sides'. Originally there might have been two. The Fascist dictatorship of Assad and the original rebels who, while comprising different ethnicities, sects and religions, were at least united on one main aim - the replacement of the Assad dictatorship with a democracy. (Did you support them at this stage? Or were they "stool-pigeons of the West" or something?  ;D)

As the civil war dragged on, and Russia and China prevented any material help getting to the original rebels, all manner of terrifying jihadists started to enter the country in the belief that they could extend their own theological/imperialist aims in Syria. Maybe it's now too late to help the Free Syrian Army without unavoidably helping the interests of these jihadists. I don't know. Nor do you. But certainly the politics of Assad's succession (which will surely have to happen) have got a lot trickier over the last year - thanks, again, in no small part to the global community having to drag its feet behind Russia. In the meantime we count the dead - 130,000 and rising.

But I quoted your sentence because it unexpectedly gets to the heart of those who occupy your ideological position. You say that "all sides" of the Syrian conflict are "as odious and violent as each other". Really? "All sides"? Even the millions of ordinary Syrians who oppose both the Fascists in Damascus and the various stripes of Islamic Jihadists who have latched on to - and subverted - their struggle? Only someone who hates all Arabs, and believes them incapable of civilised political struggle, could say something like that. 
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #695 on: January 22, 2014, 10:13:54 am »

It's weird stuff.
They still don't seem to have updated their (ie Chossudovsky) strident claims that Arafat was poisoned.
I can't find any mention of the Russian or French Autopsy results finding he wasn't, but I guess that to publish those would go and spoil their Zionist NWO theories.
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Offline viteslesrouges

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #696 on: January 22, 2014, 11:12:51 am »
You're right about the number of 'sides'. Originally there might have been two. The Fascist dictatorship of Assad and the original rebels who, while comprising different ethnicities, sects and religions, were at least united on one main aim - the replacement of the Assad dictatorship with a democracy. (Did you support them at this stage? Or were they "stool-pigeons of the West" or something?  ;D)

As the civil war dragged on, and Russia and China prevented any material help getting to the original rebels, all manner of terrifying jihadists started to enter the country in the belief that they could extend their own theological/imperialist aims in Syria. Maybe it's now too late to help the Free Syrian Army without unavoidably helping the interests of these jihadists. I don't know. Nor do you. But certainly the politics of Assad's succession (which will surely have to happen) have got a lot trickier over the last year - thanks, again, in no small part to the global community having to drag its feet behind Russia. In the meantime we count the dead - 130,000 and rising.

But I quoted your sentence because it unexpectedly gets to the heart of those who occupy your ideological position. You say that "all sides" of the Syrian conflict are "as odious and violent as each other". Really? "All sides"? Even the millions of ordinary Syrians who oppose both the Fascists in Damascus and the various stripes of Islamic Jihadists who have latched on to - and subverted - their struggle? Only someone who hates all Arabs, and believes them incapable of civilised political struggle, could say something like that.

There you go again making sweeping statements "only someone who hates all Arabs..could say something like that"  tsk tsk. I don't hate any nation or race and actually don't hate any individual, hate takes a lot of energy and emotion, too much in my mind.

I don't consider the millions of ordinary Syrians as being on any either side in this war. They obviously will have their views but they're certainly not involved in the fighting that's why the rebels invited support from outside. I had no particular thoughts on the early stages of the struggle as I knew precious little about it but know that despite Assad Syria has actually been multi-ethnic and multi-religious for decades. Turkey's involvement was the turning point for me. Turkey is looking to re-invigorate it's position along the lines of the Ottoman empire, to do that it needs to displace completely Iran and Iran's main (only?) support in the region is Assad. This suits other countries but let's not get into "conspiracy theories or conspiracy facts" eh? You'll be trying to convince me that the Americans landed on the moon next. ;)

You'll be hard pressed to fit me into one of your ready made pigeon holes............my tin foil helmet's too big for a start! 8)


 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 11:16:21 am by viteslesrouges »
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Offline viteslesrouges

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #697 on: January 22, 2014, 11:33:31 am »
Ah, Michel Chossudovsky's ever reliable Global Research...

Globalresearch.ca (also under the domain name globalresearch.org) may best be described as a left-wing equivalent to WingNutDaily. It is the website of the Montreal-based non-profit The Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), founded by Michel Chossudovsky.

The website describes itself as an "independent research and media organization." Globalresearch.ca takes pride in being a reliable "alternative news" source serving as a major repository of a broad range of "news articles, in-depth reports and analysis on issues which are barely covered by the mainstream media" (such as the New World Order). Its politico-economic stance is strongly anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, anti-militarist, "internationalist but anti-globalization." Its view of science, the economy and geopolitics seems to be broadly conspiracist.

While many of Globalresearch.ca's articles discuss legitimate humanitarian or environmental concerns, the site has a strong undercurrent of reality warping and bullshit throughout its pages.

Despite presenting itself as a source of scholarly analysis, Globalresearch.ca mostly consists of polemics many of which accept (and use) conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and propaganda. The prevalent conspiracist strand relates to global power-elites (primarily governments and corporations) and their New World Order. Specific featured conspiracy theories include those addressing 9/11, vaccines, genetic modification, Zionism, HAARP, global warming, and David Kelly. Analyses of these issues tend follow the lines of the site's political biases.

Apparently, contributors to Globalresearch.ca consider information sourced from anyone who seems aligned to their ideology as reliable; during the 2011 Libyan civil war the site was an apologist for Muammar al-Gaddafi, reproducing his propaganda and painting him as a paragon of a modern leader. It's no surprise then that the site has long become a magnet for radicals, fringe figures and crank elements from the left in general. And ironically, it has more in common with its writers' enemies and wingnut rivals than they would ever admit.


rationalwiki.

Quote
On 23 March 2013, the Syrian government requested the UN send inspectors to investigate an incident in town of Khan al-Assal, where it said opposition forces had used chlorine-filled rockets.[69] The Syrian government however later refused to allow the UN investigation to be expanded to places outside Khan al-Assal.[70] On 23 April 2013, the New York Times reported that the British and French governments had sent a confidential letter to the United Nations Secretary General, claiming that there was evidence that the Syrian government had used chemical weapons in Aleppo, Homs, and perhaps Damascus. Israel also claimed that the Syrian government had used chemical weapons on 19 March near Aleppo and Damascus.[71] On 24 April, Syria blocked UN investigators from entering Syria; UN under-secretary for political affairs Jeffrey Feltman said this would not prevent an inquiry from being carried out.[72] On 25 April US Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel stated that US intelligence showed the Assad government had likely used chemical weapons – specifically sarin gas.[73] However, the White House announced that "much more" work had to be done to verify the intelligence assessments.[74]

UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic member Carla del Ponte stated in May 2013 that they still need to verify and confirm but 'According to the testimonies we have gathered, the rebels have used chemical weapons, making use of sarin gas'.[75] Later, the commission stressed that it had "not reached conclusive findings" as to their use by any parties.[76] Also in May, according to a report by American journalist Seymour Hersh the CIA briefed the Obama administration on al-Nusra's work with sarin, and on Al-Qaeda in Iraq's knowledge of Sarin production methods in Syria.[77]
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #698 on: January 22, 2014, 11:39:54 am »
"However, this is hardly a formal UN position. She was speaking informally in TV and radio interviews, and freely admits that looking at the use of chemical weapons in Syria is not part of her remit."

Bridget Kendall
Diplomatic correspondent, BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #699 on: January 22, 2014, 11:47:16 am »
Quote
On 23 March 2013, the Syrian government requested the UN send inspectors to investigate an incident in town of Khan al-Assal, where it said opposition forces had used chlorine-filled rockets.[69] ...........
.....
UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic member Carla del Ponte stated in May 2013 that they still need to verify and confirm but 'According to the testimonies we have gathered, the rebels have used chemical weapons, making use of sarin gas'.[75] Later, the commission stressed that it had "not reached conclusive findings" as to their use by any parties.[76] Also in May, according to a report by American journalist Seymour Hersh the CIA briefed the Obama administration on al-Nusra's work with sarin, and on Al-Qaeda in Iraq's knowledge of Sarin production methods in Syria.[77]

Yes, that's from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attack

Here's something from further down the article, worth reading it all in full...

.... Upon investigation, the sources for this story were from the web sites Infowars and the Centre for Research on Globalization.[270] These articles, in turn, were both based on a single article[271] published by Mint Press News in a report described by author and intelligence analyst Muhammad Idrees Ahmad as "implausible"[270] and debunked by Syrian war analyst Eliot Higgins.[170][272]

I'm sorry but I rest my case regarding the veracity of much of what Globalresearch ever says.
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Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #700 on: January 22, 2014, 11:57:26 am »
That Mint Press news report caused so much confusion! Wasn't it actually disowned by its own author eventually?
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #701 on: January 22, 2014, 12:04:11 pm »
"However, this is hardly a formal UN position. She was speaking informally in TV and radio interviews, and freely admits that looking at the use of chemical weapons in Syria is not part of her remit."

Bridget Kendall
Diplomatic correspondent, BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188

And we all know how accurate and unbiased the BBC are...........
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #702 on: January 22, 2014, 12:06:04 pm »
And we all know how accurate and unbiased the BBC are...........

Mainstream meedja innit. Part of the global capitalist Bilderberg US-UK-Zionist conspiracy like.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #703 on: January 22, 2014, 12:09:15 pm »
Mainstream meedja innit. Part of the global capitalist Bilderberg US-UK-Zionist conspiracy like.

Orgreave, Hillsborough........................................innit.

End.



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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #704 on: January 22, 2014, 12:20:55 pm »
Well, it's your choice pal. You can give yourself over to some loser at Internationalnutjob.com for your news or you can use the BBC as your starting point with its unparalleled track record of journalism over the last 70 years.

Jim Muir's assessment of the torture photographs. The link also has the forensic pathologist describing what he's seen.

There have been many reports and much evidence collected by human rights groups and international investigators alleging systematic torture and killings in Syrian government detention centres.

But the latest report carries such allegations into a new dimension. The figure of 11,000 victims documented in the 55,000 photographs is clearly just the tip of the iceberg, representing the numbers in one location only, and with a large number of the images (27,000) taken by one official photographer.

This man, codenamed "Caesar", was later smuggled out of Syria and questioned by three top war crimes prosecutors for several days at an undisclosed location. They concluded that his testimony was "not only credible, but most compelling".

Issues of political motivation - the commissioning of the report by Qatar, and its release just before the Geneva talks - should not obscure the reality of the evidence produced.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25822571
 
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #705 on: January 22, 2014, 12:44:20 pm »
Well, it's your choice pal. You can give yourself over to some loser at Internationalnutjob.com for your news or you can use the BBC as your starting point with its unparalleled track record of journalism over the last 70 years.

Jim Muir's assessment of the torture photographs. The link also has the forensic pathologist describing what he's seen.

There have been many reports and much evidence collected by human rights groups and international investigators alleging systematic torture and killings in Syrian government detention centres.

But the latest report carries such allegations into a new dimension. The figure of 11,000 victims documented in the 55,000 photographs is clearly just the tip of the iceberg, representing the numbers in one location only, and with a large number of the images (27,000) taken by one official photographer.

This man, codenamed "Caesar", was later smuggled out of Syria and questioned by three top war crimes prosecutors for several days at an undisclosed location. They concluded that his testimony was "not only credible, but most compelling".

Issues of political motivation - the commissioning of the report by Qatar, and its release just before the Geneva talks - should not obscure the reality of the evidence produced.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25822571

BBC reversing footage of the Orgreave police/picket clashes not withstanding I suppose. :-\ but that's another thread another time.

The part of your quote which I've highlighted is the only relevant point.

You seem to have a view that it's the BBC or nothing, anything else is www.tinfoilhatnutters.com, quite a persuasive argument and I look forward to the 10 o'clock news tonight. Thanks for putting me right.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #706 on: January 22, 2014, 01:28:31 pm »
I'm not interested in having a debate with you here about the BBC. It's a non-debate.

This is about Syria. I posted the now well-known news that 55,000 photographs have been found showing the torture, mutilation and execution of 11,000 political detainees. Men and women who have never tried let alone found guilty of any crime. All of them sons and daughters of some grieving parent. You don't seem to think this worthy of any comment except how suspicious the timing is. I think that says a lot about you.

In your determination to see American or Western chicanery in everything you simply ignore what, by any standards, is an incredible event. The sort of evidence, actually, that if found in Chile in the 1970s might have brought thugs and tyrants like General Pinochet to account much earlier than eventually happened.

This is for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvRWo8CXTpc
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #707 on: January 22, 2014, 01:35:46 pm »
It's clearly the rebels who have tortured and killed the people depicted on these recently released pictures. Let's not be naive. It's not like the Assad family have a reputation for wholesale level torture and killing. Syria was one of the most democratic places in the world EVER before the civil war. Political opponents of the regime were tolerated and allowed to get on with their business, especially the Kurdish separatist groups.

The Assad's are a lovely bunch and have never butchered, slaughtered or massacred anybody. Ever. Ever, ever.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #708 on: January 22, 2014, 07:29:27 pm »
I'm not interested in having a debate with you here about the BBC. It's a non-debate.

This is about Syria. I posted the now well-known news that 55,000 photographs have been found showing the torture, mutilation and execution of 11,000 political detainees. Men and women who have never tried let alone found guilty of any crime. All of them sons and daughters of some grieving parent. You don't seem to think this worthy of any comment except how suspicious the timing is. I think that says a lot about you.

In your determination to see American or Western chicanery in everything you simply ignore what, by any standards, is an incredible event. The sort of evidence, actually, that if found in Chile in the 1970s might have brought thugs and tyrants like General Pinochet to account much earlier than eventually happened.

This is for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvRWo8CXTpc

You obviously choose to ignore parts of my post in your pre-determined belief of my political views, pretty sad that.

You remind me of the Tories who accused me of being a communist when I stood on picket lines and with collection buckets in town centres in 1984.

Quote
By Yorkeykopite :Issues of political motivation - the commissioning of the report by Qatar, and its release just before the Geneva talks - should not obscure the reality of the evidence produced.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25822571


Quote
My reply :The part of your quote which I've highlighted is the only relevant point.

But you'd probably prepared and posted your reply before reading mine.

Tell me what does the world look like from that ivory tower?


« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 07:33:34 pm by viteslesrouges »
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #709 on: January 22, 2014, 07:40:13 pm »
Quote
SYRIA ACTIVISTS FREED FROM JIHADIST DUNGEONS BREATHE NEW LIFE

Agence France Presse
January 12, 2014 Sunday 6:48 AM GMT

BEIRUT, Jan 12 2014

Wide-eyed Seif said his family had lost hope of seeing him again after
jihadists from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant snatched him
from his media office in Idlib province.

The 22-year-old was repeatedly beaten by his captors, before being
sentenced to death for his media activism and his parents had already
been told he was dead.

But an offensive against the group, launched last week by other
Islamist rebels outraged by ISIL's abuses, saved his life.

When Seif was reunited with his family and fiancee, he gained a fresh
lease of life.

"My parents had been told by ISIL I had already been executed. They
couldn't believe their eyes when they saw me," Seif from Idlib province
told AFP via the Internet.

Seif thought he would never make it out of his jail after being tried
and sentenced to death by one of the group's foreign members.

"I was never given a proper trial. The Tunisian (jihadist) judge just
walked into the room and issued his sentence," Seif said

"He picked the harshest sentence because that's what he was in the
mood for."

Seif was kidnapped by ISIL on November 28 and freed on January 6 when
rebels stormed the jail in Dana in northwestern province of Idlib.

The attack was part of the week-long rebel offensive against ISIL
in large swathes of northern Syria that has seen opposition fighters
expel ISIL from some areas.

The group is holding hundreds of captives including rebels from rival
groups, activists and journalists, among them Westerners.

Survivors like Seif say conditions in ISIL jails are "inhuman,
far worse than those of the regime" of President Bashar al-Assad,
where he was also held in 2011.

"Believe me, ISIL's jails are even more horrific. At least in Assad's
prisons I got food to eat every night," said Seif, who was a student
in Aleppo when he joined the anti-Assad revolt in 2011.

"I was given half a litre of water every two days, and only scraps
of food to eat. Because they hate media activists, I was beaten and
sworn at and accused of being a heretic," Seif said.

He also saw the jihadists executing other prisoners, including a
15-year-old Kurdish boy who was accused of rape and belonging to the
Kurdistan Workers Party, whose Syrian branch has been fighting ISIL
for months.

"He denied the accusations and for five days they beat him. He
eventually broke and 'confessed.' They immediately shot him."

Seif said ISIL was holding two Armenians who had tried to flee Syria
after the jihadists attacked churches, especially in the northern
province of Raqa.

"They showed the Armenians and me the heads of prisoners who had been
executed, to terrorise us," said Seif.

"The torture was merciless. My forehead was bleeding from the beating
for two days, and I got no treatment. I saw people in their 70s,
who had been kidnapped for ransom," he added.

"They had many Kurds in their jails, whose release was costing their
families hundreds of thousands of Syrian pounds," said Seif.

Rights groups have said that ISIL has kidnapped hundreds of Kurds in
recent months in Aleppo province.

Narrow escape from mass execution

Milad Shehabi had been working as a citizen journalist for Shahba
Press, a grassroots network, when jihadists stormed his Aleppo office
in late December.

"They said I should learn how to speak about ISIL," Shehabi told AFP
over the Internet.

Shehabi had been visiting neighbouring Turkey before he was captured
by ISIL, but was determined to return to Syria even though he had
received threats.

Unlike Seif, Shehabi was not put on trial. He did not even know he
was being held by ISIL until several days after his capture.

"For 13 days, I was blindfolded and held in solitary confinement,"
he said. "I couldn't see anything. I only heard sounds."

Shehabi was being held at a children's hospital in Aleppo used by
ISIL as its heaquarters in the city.

This week rebels overran the base and freed dozens of captives,
including Shehabi, hours after ISIL had reportedly executed at least
nine prisoners "in cold blood".

"I heard the gunshots when they were executing people. There were so
many bullets I thought there were clashes outside," said Shehabi.

Like Seif, Shehabi felt lucky to have escaped with his life.

"They asked me for 200,000 pounds ($1,300) ransom. I only had 15,000,"
he said.

"I asked them whether I could inform my family of my whereabouts. They
forbade even that."

Reporters Without Borders describes Syria as the world's most dangerous
country to report on.
Quote
The Story of Two Armenians Arrested by ISIS



By: Suhaib Anjarini
Published Thursday, January 16, 2014
The story of Wanis and Minas Livonian, two Syrian-Armenians from the north Syrian city of Aleppo, seems almost out of this world. They were killed by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), and its local Sharia committee forbade their family from burying them.

Aleppo resident Anis Livonian, known as Abu Minas, owned a small ice factory in the eastern Aleppo countryside’s Bab district. The factory was the entire fortune of this 69 year old. When ISIS reached the region four months ago, it took control of the factory.

No one can imagine what Wanis and his son Minas, 38, were thinking when they decided to risk their lives and head to the industrial city in Sheikh Najjar. Certainly, they didn’t imagine it would lead to their deaths.

The father visited the booty department at ISIS headquarters, seeking a deal with the emir, but ISIS arrested them at once when it discovered they were Armenians.

Wanis was married with two daughters and a son. Minas was married with three children, the oldest 11 years old. Their family tried to obtain information about their whereabouts but to no avail.
Three months later, an ISIS religious judge came to the two men with a solution. A former prisoner of ISIS told Al-Akhbar, “Abu Issa told them: Convert to Islam and you will be safe." Naturally, they quickly agreed, declaring the shahada. Then, the two “Muslim Armenians” were sent back to their cell “temporarily."

Though Abu Issa had promised to release them, three days later Minas asked an “investigator” frequenting the prison about the reasons behind the delay. He answered, “The emir was not convinced by your Islam." Minas asked, “How was he not? We swore!” The investigator replied, “You, people of the book, your bible is distorted and your beliefs are void. You must have pretended that you converted to Islam to fool us."

According to the source, before the battles between ISIS and the armed opposition groups reached the prison, the two men were told, along with other prisoners, that they would appear before a judge. However, the judge was a gun, and the verdict was two bullets in the head.
The tragedy didn’t end with their death. A family member told Al-Akhbar, “We found out about their death over the Internet. It was very sad."

The relatives sought to retrieve the bodies. “We wanted to hold a decent burial for them, is not that the minimum we can do?”

Finally, some volunteers at a civil society organization managed to locate the bodies being held by the Aleppo Sharia Committee, which refused to hand over the body. Reportedly, the committee said, “This is impossible. They declared their Islam. They are now martyrs and should be buried in a proper way, according to Sharia.”

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content...-arrested-isis

There was a large Christian Armenian community in Syria prior to this civil war. They are part of the remnants of the Armenians who lived in the Ottoman empire when 1,500.000, yes 1.5 million, were killed by the turks in 1915. Now they're fleeing again. And that's where my loyalty and concerns lie.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #710 on: January 22, 2014, 10:47:14 pm »
There was a large Christian Armenian community in Syria prior to this civil war. They are part of the remnants of the Armenians who lived in the Ottoman empire when 1,500.000, yes 1.5 million, were killed by the turks in 1915. Now they're fleeing again. And that's where my loyalty and concerns lie.

How very sectarian of you.

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #711 on: January 23, 2014, 02:44:37 pm »
CNN's interview with two of the lawyers and the forensic pathologist who have examined the testimony and photographs of starvation and cruelty and mass murder in Assad's jails.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/20/world/syria-torture-photos-amanpour/index.html?sr=sharebar_twitter
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #712 on: January 27, 2014, 05:43:12 pm »
Initial thoughts looking at these before/after photos was that there's something not quite right about mourning the loss of heritage/history when 130,000 people have died; but then you realise the effect this devastation must have on the survivors. Not to mention the number of people who probably died during the destruction of these buildings. Very sad pictures whichever way you look at it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/26/syria-heritage-in-ruins-before-and-after-pictures?CMP=fb_gu

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #713 on: January 27, 2014, 09:46:40 pm »
Initial thoughts looking at these before/after photos was that there's something not quite right about mourning the loss of heritage/history when 130,000 people have died; but then you realise the effect this devastation must have on the survivors. Not to mention the number of people who probably died during the destruction of these buildings. Very sad pictures whichever way you look at it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/26/syria-heritage-in-ruins-before-and-after-pictures?CMP=fb_gu

The picture of the mosque, down at the bottom - that's some quality construction there. The actual buildings have weathered it quite well.

Offline viteslesrouges

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #714 on: February 5, 2014, 10:29:31 am »
TIME Magazine
Jan 30 2014


Syrian Christian Leaders Call On U.S. To End Support For Anti-Assad Rebels

By Elizabeth Dias


The stories told by five top Syrian Christian leaders about the horrors their churches are experiencing at the hands of Islamist extremists are biblical in their brutality.

Bishop Elias Toumeh, representative of the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch and All the East, tells of the funeral he led ten days ago for
the headless body of one of his parishioners in Marmarita. Rev. Adeeb Awad, vice moderator of the National Evangelical Synod of Syria and
Lebanon, explains how the rebels blew up his church and then pointed the finger at the regime. Bishop Armash Nalbandian, primate of the
Armenian Church of Damascus, says he received word on Facebook from a fellow bishop in Aleppo that two congregants were traveling when opposition fighters stopped their bus, made them present their Armenian IDs, and then took them away. The fighters, Nalbandian
recounts, returned to the fellow passengers a few hours later with a box, which they said were cakes.
Inside were the two Armenian heads.

The bishops' stories are difficult to independently verify, and the war's death toll goes far beyond just Christian communities in Syria-more than 130,000 people have been killed since the fighting began, and at least two million others have fled the country. But they are emerging as part of a concerted push by Syrian Christians to get the U.S. to stop its support for rebel groups fighting Syrian
president Bashar al Assad. "The US must change its politics and must choose the way of diplomacy and dialogue, not supporting rebels and
calling them freedom fighters," says Nalbandian.

The group is the first delegation of its kind to visit Washington since the crisis began three years ago, and its five members represent
key different Christian communities in the country. Awad, Toumeh, and Nalbandian were joined by Rev. Riad Jarjour, Presbyterian pastor from Homs, and Bishop Dionysius Jean Kawak, Metropolitan of the Syrian Orthodox Church. The Westminster Institute and Barnabas Aid, two groups that focus on religious freedom and relief for threatened faith
communities, sponsored their trip.

Given the United States' increased support for non-terrorist rebel groups in the wake of the Assad regime's use of chemical weapons, the
religious leaders' mission is a long shot. The bishops are asking the United States to exert pressure on countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar,
and Turkey to stop supporting and sending terrorist fighters to Syria. "The real problem is that the strong military opposition on the ground
is a foreign opposition," Awad explains, arguing that US support of opposition groups means support for foreign terrorist fighters. "They
are the ones killing and attacking churches and clergy and nuns and burning houses and eating human livers and hearts and cutting heads," Awad says.

The Syrian Christian churches are not publicly calling for outright support of the Assad regime. Doing so would further endanger their
followers and hurt the moral component of their case, given the regime's alleged use of chemical weapons against civilians. Instead,
they're meeting privately with law makers, diplomats and think tanks. Sunday evening, they spoke with Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA) at St. John the Beloved Catholic church in nearby McLean. On Monday, they held court at the Heritage Foundation and Catholic University of America. On Tuesday, they met with Rep. Anna Eshoo (D-CA), Rep. Robert Aderholt (R-AL) and Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX), and then met with leaders of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. Wednesday's lineup included Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-SC), Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), State Department officials including Lawrence Silverman, Near East Affairs deputy acting aecretary, and Uzra Zeya, acting assistant secretary for the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, and then a final stop at the U.S. Institute for Peace.

It's been a difficult issue to gain traction on, if for no other reasons than that support for Christians and endangered minorities can
appear as support for Assad and that an entire country is being destroyed by war, not just Christian communities. President Obama only
briefly mentioned Syria in his State of the Union address on Tuesday. "In Syria, we'll support the opposition that rejects the agenda of
terrorist networks," he said. "American diplomacy, backed by the threat of force, is why Syria's chemical weapons are being eliminated,
and we will continue to work with the international community to usher in the future the Syrian people deserve--a future free of dictatorship, terror and fear."

Traction in Congress has also been a challenge, but a handful of leaders are speaking out. The U.S. House of Representatives passed
legislation in September, authored by Wolf and Eshoo, to create a special religious minorities envoy at the State Department who would
work for policy options to protect faith communities, but the bill has yet to move forward in the Senate. "Meeting with the delegation of
Syrian Christian church leaders this week provided a constructive opportunity to raise awareness and to discuss concrete steps that can
be taken to help protect Christians and other religious minorities in Syria," says Eshoo. "Christians in the U.S. should be informed by
their leaders about the atrocities taking place in Syria. The history of violence against religious minorities must not be allowed to repeat
itself."

Wolf has championed the cause during his congressional tenure, but he is retiring at the end of this term. Newer leaders like Aderholt see
it as a time to take a stand. "Most Americans do not realize that Christians across the Middle East are in grave danger and have often
been forced to leave their home countries due to persecution and threats from radicalized Muslims," he says. "If we want a true
democracy to emerge from this region, Christians and other religious minority voices must share in the decision-making process, and
certainly not be persecuted and fear for their lives due to extremist elements that are pouring in to Syria."

The bishops' stories are similar to other grim instances of violence against Christians during the war. Christian schools in Damascus were
shelled in November. The next month, a dozen Greek Orthodox nuns were taken from Mar Takla Monastery in Maaloula. Rebel groups abducted two bishops near Aleppo last April. Jesuit priest Paolo Dall'Oglio, whom TIME wrote about in 2012 when he visited the United States on a similar lobbying trip, has been missing and feared dead since July.

http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/30...-assad-rebels/
« Last Edit: February 5, 2014, 10:35:37 am by viteslesrouges »
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Offline Lots of Medals

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #715 on: February 5, 2014, 03:45:20 pm »
CNN's interview with two of the lawyers and the forensic pathologist who have examined the testimony and photographs of starvation and cruelty and mass murder in Assad's jails.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/20/world/syria-torture-photos-amanpour/index.html?sr=sharebar_twitter

The lawyers and academics aren’t exactly independent are they. Not the usual group of old crusty lawyers concerned with dispensing clean humane justice on behalf of the free world. This group  have proved themselves trusted employers paid handsomely to dispense justice on behalf of the US  State Dept. and their European counterparts.

 Two, Desmond de Silva QC and Professor David Crane were hired by the chief prosecutors for the UN Special Court for Sierra Leone,, and the other was the former lead prosecutor at the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia, Geoffrey Nice QC.

Like all judges they know a thing or two about gerrymandering evidence to suite the will of their employers. Crane was employed by the US Defense Intelligence Agency just before his new and well paid Syrian job. They were all employed by Carter Ruck on behalf of the government of Qatar who with Saudi Arabia funds the rotten scum called the opposition in Syrai in their Sunni Holy War against the Shia Muslims.

The “evidence” itself is pretty poor, the story behind it worse. Some ex Assad higher up asked some un-named person to take snaps and take notes of their criminal activity. All the allegations are based on the fantastic number of 55,000 photos of which the good investigators scrutinized just 5,000  supposed to be of 835 people killed by Assads forces (the number decreases all the time) Twenty percent showed evidence of inflicted trauma. Thirty percent were inconclusive, and around forty percent showed emaciation.

None of the reports I have read in the main stream media make any concrete connection to the deaths of 11,000 people never mind who killed them.

The evidence rests with interviews the good lawyers and academics had with the mysterious photographer nicknamed Caesar in some unknown Mid Eastern country, defo not Iran.

The photos that have been made public have had date stamps and other data either crudely removed or smudged out. Can't trust anyone these days can you.

De Silva must have been concerned about hedging his bets in an interview he gave to CNN he said “Ultimately, the validity of our conclusions turn on the integrity of the people involved.” Carry on with this job you might get dragged into that group De Silva

Amnesty International asked “why the [UN] Security Council has not yet referred the situation in Syria to the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court.” Could it be the powers who control these things haven’t had a chance to tidy their houses yet.  Any evidence with the help of a Snowden or an Assange just might open the lid on whats truly going on.

Geneva has come and gone, job well done for the US, put the snaps aside until some future date were they can be fitted into a better story.

 If we don’t learn anything from Iraq, Afghanistan the Balkans and every other dirty war these scoundrels have waged or funded  we have to be aware that the USA and its European friends will use any dirty trick and maneuver including arming and funding some of the most despotic elements on the globe to ensure they control every nook and cranny of it. Assad is a despot he just isn't their despot, if it suited the US he would be turned into a pilgrim of remorse just like Gaddafi, later to be dispensed with once his usefulness is over. Add his name to a long list of US Assets.

And it isn’t just in the Middle East that the “Freedom Fighters” are at play. The anarchy being played out in Ukraine at the moment, where every rightwing fascist element is being given a gun and a wad of cash to make sure the people of Ukraine get a taste of European freedom .........  Greek style.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #716 on: February 5, 2014, 04:09:12 pm »
The lawyers and academics aren’t exactly independent are they.

Yes they are. Completely independent. But I don't expect to persuade you of that so don't expect a conversation.
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #717 on: February 5, 2014, 04:10:45 pm »
But, by all means, do tell me what you think of the discovery of 55,000 photographs of torture victims.
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Offline viteslesrouges

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #718 on: February 5, 2014, 04:56:06 pm »
Yes they are. Completely independent. But I don't expect to persuade you of that so don't expect a conversation.

Have those photos been authenticated yet?

Quote
"Nadim Houry of Human Rights Watch said his organisation had not had the opportunity to authenticate the images. But he added: "We have documented repeatedly how Syria's security services regularly torture – sometimes to death – detainees in their custody.

"These photos – if authentic – suggest that we may have only scratched the surface of the horrific extent of torture in Syria's notorious dungeons. There is only one way to get to the bottom of this and that is for the negotiating parties at Geneva II to grant unhindered access to Syria's detention facilities to independent monitors."

The reason I ask is that Geneva II will get nowhere and certainly won't enable access to anywhere in Syria which might implicate the perpetrators.
« Last Edit: February 5, 2014, 05:00:31 pm by viteslesrouges »
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #719 on: February 5, 2014, 05:49:34 pm »
Have those photos been authenticated yet?

The reason I ask is that Geneva II will get nowhere and certainly won't enable access to anywhere in Syria which might implicate the perpetrators.

Yes, they've been authenticated.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.