Author Topic: The barbarity that is Syria  (Read 387628 times)

Offline JohnnoWhite

  • Deliverer of the -Q- de grace.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,968
  • Thought I was wrong once - but I was mistaken.
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #520 on: September 6, 2013, 02:30:45 pm »
Succinctly put sir!!
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,769
  • The first five yards........
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #521 on: September 6, 2013, 03:14:17 pm »

I still don't see the development of more accurate weapons and less barbaric ways of fighting wars as much of a great leap forward in the civilisation stakes. It's progress, yes, but negotiation, compromise and consensus to isolate the future tyrants of the world is the next advancement and beats fighting fire with fire for me. Syria could be a blueprint for that. Instead we seem to want to go down the unilateral road.

A well-targeted airstrike might be the best deterrent, if it's carried out with international support. And I realise that's what is frustrating the likes of Obama and Cameron, that they can't get others to see that. But I hope Obama follows Cameron's lead (following the Commons vote) by accepting that there are differences and doesn't plough on regardless.

Part of the problem is the polarisation of views in the world. Those in favour of targeted airstrikes are seen as dangerous war-mongerers and those against military action are lily-livered pacifists. Both of which notions are largely cobblers.

I don't see those who vote against military action in this instance as 'lily-livered pacifists'. You can check my previous comments on this if you don't believe me, but right from the start of the Syrian crisis two years ago I've admitted that the issue (of intervention) is not clear cut and that I recognise arguments against it.

I also don't see the opposition to an air-strike being based on 'lily-livered pacifism' because I know that the main opponents of such a policy are Russia and China. Neither nation is known for its pacifism, to put in mildly. The Communist regime in China has killed millions of its own people since the 1950s and continues to defy the United Nations in Tibet. The Putin regime tramples over human rights too of course and the Russian idea of waging war in Chechnya might rightly be described as "barbarism". Plus the Russians very recently rode roughshod over the UN when its army invaded the sovereign state of Georgia and behaved like a demented mob while it was there.

I'd rather the Syrian crisis was sorted out multilaterally, with unanimous agreement on the UN Security Council. But I know you'd have to be crazy to expect it. Russia, remember, was sending heavy weapons to the Assad regime earlier this year. It even vetoed a UN humanitarian effort and a UN motion of censure. Everything it has done so far in the crisis has been done to support its autocratic ally.

The international community has come a long way since the 1970s when it comes to naming 'crimes against humanity' and promising deliverance for those civilians being murdered. That's a good thing, but it still has a long way to go. I was reading Samantha Power's book the other day ('A Problem from Hell'). She reminds us that during the Pol Pot auto-genocide in Cambodia the United Nations did zippety-fuck. The genocide conventions were in place - and had been since 1948 - but the UN simply turned a blind eye. When eventually the pressure from Amnesty International got too strong the British and Israeli representatives in the UN called for an investigation. That's all. A mere 'investigation'. But even that was too much for the sitting members of the UN Commission on Human Rights. Three nations teamed up to block the investigation. No surprises who. Russia, Yugoslavia and....Syria. The Cambodian genocide continued for another 12 months. We (the international community and the non-interventionists) ought to shoulder some of the blame for that.

Sometimes unilateral action is a good thing. Of course (illegal) unilateral action against Cambodia was eventually taken by Vietnam. And Pol Pot was overthrown.

If intervention happens in Syria it won't be unilateral of course. The US (with its Democratic President)  will be backed by France (with its Socialist president), and Turkey. Just not by Russia and China. 

Here's Samantha Power (now US envoy to the UN) talking yesterday about Russia shirking its duties. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23981642

She's right.

 
« Last Edit: September 6, 2013, 03:16:57 pm by yorkykopite »
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Online Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,404
  • Is it getting better?
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #522 on: September 6, 2013, 03:49:32 pm »
That's all well and good but it doesn't get over the problem of credibility. Effectively, you're saying that we should side with the UK/US axis rather than the Russia/China axis and yet the UK/US were the guys who invaded the last Middle Eastern country on false pretences. The US gave Saddam Hussein chemical weapons in his fight against Iran yet now they are going to bomb a country whose government denies ever using them. You have painted Russia and China in a bad light, and no doubt with some justification with Russia, in particular, accused of propping up the Assad regime but how is that different to what the US did with Saddam? Meanwhile, the US has awarded "Trusted Traveller" status to Saudi Arabia, who provided the majority of the 9/11 bombers. It would be funny if....

Offline Red_Mist

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,725
  • CORGI registered friend (but not a gas engineer)
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #523 on: September 6, 2013, 03:53:50 pm »
I don't see those who vote against military action in this instance as 'lily-livered pacifists'. You can check my previous comments on this if you don't believe me, but right from the start of the Syrian crisis two years ago I've admitted that the issue (of intervention) is not clear cut and that I recognise arguments against it.
Hold on, that wasn't aimed at you. The only reason I might need to check your history in this thread is because you repeatedly give valuable food for thought, even if I don't happen to agree all the time. It wasn't aimed at anyone individually, more a comment on the modern need to polarise on various issues, including this one.


Offline Red_Mist

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,725
  • CORGI registered friend (but not a gas engineer)
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #524 on: September 6, 2013, 04:14:40 pm »
I'd rather the Syrian crisis was sorted out multilaterally, with unanimous agreement on the UN Security Council. But I know you'd have to be crazy to expect it.
Maybe so, but whether it's US- or UN-led military action, is military action the only solution? Or is it more likely to cause more pain and suffering for the Syrian people?

If Russia or China won't support targeted strikes, then they should be leading the way on the promotion of peace talks.

Offline ۩ Imperator ۩

  • CAE DIVI AUG
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,338
  • "Let them hate me, as long as they respect me"
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #525 on: September 6, 2013, 09:52:29 pm »
Imperator posted:- "It was always destined to go rogue when it was given such an irritating title, which I think many Syrians would find pretty insulting."

------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't know what the title's got to do with the off-topic point at issue but to explain,  the title I gave it came about on the back of the heart-eater's barbaric behaviour. I still hold that view.

The Syrian tragedy continues to unfold as humanity's (or a perversion of it) descent into barbarity.

My point is that you cannot sum up an entire nation of people in one word (which, at the end of the day, refers to its despot leader as opposed to the nation itself). The overwhelming majority of Syrians desire nothing more than a peaceful life. This kind of clumsy labeling stigmatizes ordinary civilised people as barbarians.
Quote
In a free state there should be freedom of speech and thought.
 Tiberius Caesar Augustus,
Roman Emperor & General (42 BC - 37 AD)

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,727
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #526 on: September 6, 2013, 10:47:34 pm »
I've always wondered why generally with all the much publicised and indeed evidenced barbarity that has gone on in some African states down the years and even in recent yrs why the USA/UK have generally never got involved?  Yet in the middle east they're always chomping at the bit to get in there.

Offline ۩ Imperator ۩

  • CAE DIVI AUG
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,338
  • "Let them hate me, as long as they respect me"
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #527 on: September 6, 2013, 11:25:54 pm »
I've always wondered why generally with all the much publicised and indeed evidenced barbarity that has gone on in some African states down the years and even in recent yrs why the USA/UK have generally never got involved?  Yet in the middle east they're always chomping at the bit to get in there.

Wonder no more.

Quote
In a free state there should be freedom of speech and thought.
 Tiberius Caesar Augustus,
Roman Emperor & General (42 BC - 37 AD)

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,727
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #528 on: September 6, 2013, 11:33:14 pm »
Wonder no more.



Aye I was being a tad cynical.

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,727
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #529 on: September 6, 2013, 11:40:09 pm »
The greedy bastards send the cannon fodder off to do the nasty deed, then of course the big private sector companies come in and clean up with a vengeance.  And heaven forbid that some ministers are actually on the boards of these private sector companies.  And of course there's plenty of oil.  Rinse and repeat.  Nothing ever changes. 

Except this time the likes of Russia and potentially China are in the way.  So not the usual cakewalk for the asset stealing parasites.

Offline ۩ Imperator ۩

  • CAE DIVI AUG
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,338
  • "Let them hate me, as long as they respect me"
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #530 on: September 6, 2013, 11:49:01 pm »
Not really any assets to steal in Syria, though. It's just about securing the ones they have in Kuwait, Iraq and Saudi. I am increasingly of the view that the Americans are in the Saudis' pockets on this one. The whole idea of intervention seems to have emanated first from Riyadh.
Quote
In a free state there should be freedom of speech and thought.
 Tiberius Caesar Augustus,
Roman Emperor & General (42 BC - 37 AD)

Offline alfonso

  • Simply adores orange squash. With not one, not two either, but yea verily with three, that is correct, THREE ice cubes therein! Do not forget his straw though.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,814
  • Salford - crime capital of England
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #531 on: September 7, 2013, 01:10:03 am »
Also what the heck does "No surprise as they are lobbyists" mean?
They don't care about the people who 'voted' them in. Their job is to influence events for whoever they are lobbying for.
From 2008:
Quote
Today, McCain's campaign is infested with lobbyists from top to bottom, all of whom have used their connection to McCain to form a nexus of client relationships at McCain's intersection of power and influence inside the Beltway. Either the prior McCain image was false, or he's thrown it aside for campaign payola and all the corrupt backroom promises it brings with it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christy-hardin-smith/mccains-cronies-gambling_b_130225.html

The greedy bastards send the cannon fodder off to do the nasty deed, then of course the big private sector companies come in and clean up with a vengeance.  And heaven forbid that some ministers are actually on the boards of these private sector companies.  And of course there's plenty of oil.  Rinse and repeat.  Nothing ever changes. 

Except this time the likes of Russia and potentially China are in the way.  So not the usual cakewalk for the asset stealing parasites.
The 'clean up' generates billions for the likes of Halliburton. In Iraq some of the contracts paid out tens of millions to build say 50 hospitals or clinics, the company awarded the contract built something like 8. One company was paid millions to teach about 'democracy' if I remember correctly. Nonsense like that the taxpayers of the US/UK etc pay for.
And from those companies, I wonder which lobbyists they can be traced back to.
It is never just about the 'oil' or natural reserves when they go to war.

And anyone who thinks McCain gambling while he is at work is OK, I dare you to try it yourself when you are next at work (should you have a job). When your boss calls you in, laugh at the scenario and say you lost $3500.
« Last Edit: September 7, 2013, 01:14:56 am by alfonso »
"I know Liverpool fans care more about their club's success than the national team." Rafael Benitez

"Still we've had the hard times too - one year we finished second." Bob Paisley

"When zonal marking goes wrong, the system is blamed. When man-to-man marking fails, an individual is blamed and the system goes uncriticised." A LFC fan talking sense

Online Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,404
  • Is it getting better?
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #532 on: September 7, 2013, 01:21:28 am »
And anyone who thinks McCain gambling while he is at work is OK, I dare you to try it yourself when you are next at work (should you have a job). When your boss calls you in, laugh at the scenario and say you lost $3500.

His response should have been what Hoya said. Instead, he had a bizarre moment.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,769
  • The first five yards........
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #533 on: September 7, 2013, 11:20:39 am »
Hold on, that wasn't aimed at you. The only reason I might need to check your history in this thread is because you repeatedly give valuable food for thought, even if I don't happen to agree all the time. It wasn't aimed at anyone individually, more a comment on the modern need to polarise on various issues, including this one.

Peace, my friend. I understand. I was making the general point that those who support a military strike on Assad do not think the only argument against one is based on 'pacificism'.

The US gave Saddam Hussein chemical weapons in his fight against Iran yet now they are going to bomb a country whose government denies ever using them. You have painted Russia and China in a bad light, and no doubt with some justification with Russia, in particular, accused of propping up the Assad regime but how is that different to what the US did with Saddam? Meanwhile, the US has awarded "Trusted Traveller" status to Saudi Arabia, who provided the majority of the 9/11 bombers. It would be funny if....

Hang on. The Reagan administration made some ghastly overtures to Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war but it did not "prop up" the Baathist regime in Iraq like Russia is now doing with its sister republic in Syria. The country which 'propped up' Saddam Hussein was the Soviet Union! That's basic history. And the Russians propped Saddam up not just with endless lines of credit but with tanks, cannons, MiGs and field artillery. (Second in the rogues' gallery would be France. Third would probably be Germany. )

But even if the US had 'propped up' Saddam Hussein why would it not be a virtue now to say about Syria "we're not going to do that again"? Aren't democracies allowed to correct their mistakes? I thought that was one of the most important things about politics in a free society?
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Online Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,404
  • Is it getting better?
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #534 on: September 7, 2013, 11:38:25 am »
Hang on. The Reagan administration made some ghastly overtures to Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war but it did not "prop up" the Baathist regime in Iraq like Russia is now doing with its sister republic in Syria. The country which 'propped up' Saddam Hussein was the Soviet Union! That's basic history. And the Russians propped Saddam up not just with endless lines of credit but with tanks, cannons, MiGs and field artillery. (Second in the rogues' gallery would be France. Third would probably be Germany. )

Quote
A review of thousands of declassified government documents and interviews with former policymakers shows that U.S. intelligence and logistical support played a crucial role in shoring up Iraqi defenses against the “human wave” attacks by suicidal Iranian troops. The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague .

To prevent an Iraqi collapse, the Reagan administration supplied battlefield intelligence on Iranian troop buildups to the Iraqis, sometimes through third parties such as Saudi Arabia. The U.S. tilt toward Iraq was enshrined in National Security Decision Directive 114 of Nov. 26, 1983, one of the few important Reagan era foreign policy decisions that still remains classified. According to former U.S. officials, the directive stated that the United States would do “whatever was necessary and legal” to prevent Iraq from losing the war with Iran. source

But even if the US had 'propped up' Saddam Hussein why would it not be a virtue now to say about Syria "we're not going to do that again"? Aren't democracies allowed to correct their mistakes? I thought that was one of the most important things about politics in a free society?

Sure. I would like to see them admit it, though. I would like to see the UK and the US say, you know what, we have thoroughly ballsed up this entire region for the last century for a host of really shitty reasons, we're sorry and we won't do it again.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,769
  • The first five yards........
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #535 on: September 7, 2013, 12:13:43 pm »
Sure. I would like to see them admit it, though.

I would like to see them admit it too. But making amends is a form of saying 'sorry' isn't it? After all actions speak louder than words. Saddam didn't get much American support in the years following his annexation of Kuwait and his genocidal war against the Kurds and Marsh Arabs. The real pity is that he wasn't finished off in '91. No doubt some UN clause was cited at the time.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline alfonso

  • Simply adores orange squash. With not one, not two either, but yea verily with three, that is correct, THREE ice cubes therein! Do not forget his straw though.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,814
  • Salford - crime capital of England
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #536 on: September 7, 2013, 02:25:44 pm »
Ray McGovern ex CIA:

Quote
My former CIA analyst colleague, Paul R. Pillar, who, as National Intelligence Officer for the Middle East before the attack on Iraq, experienced up-front and personal the extreme pressure that intelligence analysts feel when a president has decided to make war, addressed this problem recently in “The Risk of Distorting Intelligence.” Pillar pointed out that an Associated Press story on the Obama administration’s preparation of the public for a military strike on Syria included these statements:

“The White House ideally wants intelligence that links the attack [with chemical weapons] directly to Assad or someone in his inner circle, to rule out the possibility that a rogue element of the military act[ed] without Assad’s authorization. That quest for added intelligence has delayed the release of the report by the Office of the Director for National Intelligence laying out evidence against Assad. … The CIA and the Pentagon have been working to gather more human intelligence tying Assad to the attack.”

Pillar adds, “When one hears that policy-makers want not just intelligence on a particular subject but intelligence that supports a particular conclusion about that subject, antennae ought to go up. A ‘quest’ for conclusion-bolstering material is fundamentally different from an open-minded use of intelligence to inform policy decisions yet to be made. It is instead a matter of making a public (and Congressional) case to support a decision already made.”

http://consortiumnews.com/2013/09/03/should-we-fall-again-for-trust-me/
"I know Liverpool fans care more about their club's success than the national team." Rafael Benitez

"Still we've had the hard times too - one year we finished second." Bob Paisley

"When zonal marking goes wrong, the system is blamed. When man-to-man marking fails, an individual is blamed and the system goes uncriticised." A LFC fan talking sense

Offline koptician

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,449
  • Hail to the King!
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #537 on: September 7, 2013, 04:52:25 pm »
Got this from a friend who's into world geopolitics etc:

The US is deciding on the authorisation of the use of force in Syria, so I want to get this information to you all right now. Share and spread the word friends.

This is not, and has never been, humanitarian. It is all about the energy needs of the West.

The Saudis have invested millions into a gas pipeline that would carry Qatari gas through Syria to Western Europe. Assad was backing a competing pipeline with Iran and this was a slap in the face to Saudi and Western interests.

The Saudis, US and the UK have been arming the rebels to overthrow Assad. Turkey, France and Israel (naturally) are involved too. But this one is really a Saudi show. Prince Bandar has admitted that the next Syrian government will be under Saudi control. He has bribed Putin twice now to stay out of it, but Putin has refused. The first bribe was cash and weapons, the second was not to have any energy contracts that would affect Russian energy needs. I believe the ballistic missile fired from a ship (likely US) into the sea and picked up on Russian radar this morning was a warning to Putin.

A 20 year veteran journalist for AP and the BBC has had the rebels admit to her that the Saudis supplied the rebels with the chemical weapons, they were supposed to go to Al Nusra, who had military training, but they were carried by low level guys, there was an accident, that's what caused the chemical attack. It seems it was too good an opportunity for the West to pass up I guess.

According to former French foreign minister Roland Dumas, Britain had planned covert action in Syria as early as 2009: "I was in England two years before the violence in Syria on other business", he told French television:

"I met with top British officials, who confessed to me that they were preparing something in Syria. This was in Britain not in America. Britain was preparing gunmen to invade Syria."

It just so happens that in 2009, Assad made his agreement with the Iranians on their pipeline.

The Iranians and Syrians have a mutual defence agreement. With the Russians and Chinese involved, this intervention is looking like the worst idea in a long line of bad ideas..

Sources..
http://rt.com/news/sarin-gas-turkey-al-nusra-021/

http://247wallst.com/energy-business/2013/08/27/syria-a-country-without-oil-pushes-oil-prices-up/

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/archives/9339

http://rt.com/news/uk-resolution-syria-security-council-099/

http://nsnbc.me/2013/08/25/former-jabhat-al-nusrah-member-admits-chemical-weapons-use/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/30/us-syria-crisis-turkey-idUSBRE94T0YO20130530

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/RestOfAsia/Syria-over-1-300-massacred-in-chemical-attack-by-army/Article1-1110869.aspx

http://www.thenational.ae/business/energy/qatar-seeks-gas-pipeline-to-turkey

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/86e3f28e-be3a-11e2-bb35-00144feab7de.html#axzz2dHLAMIE8

http://www.accuracy.org/release/un-admits-it-didnt-ask-for-access-in-syria-until-saturday/?fb_action_ids=643872282289946&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B696622850351110%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/08/25/assad-oks-un-inspection-for-site-of-chemical-weapon-attack/

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/syrians-support-assad-western-propaganda

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23838900

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_Qatar

http://www.globalresearch.ca/former-french-foreign-minister-the-war-against-syria-was-planned-two-years-before-the-arab-spring/5339112

http://www.occupy.com/article/syria-witnesses-gas-attack-say-saudis-supplied-rebels-chemical-weapons

http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/04/09/20000-u-s-m-16s-stolen-from-unguarded-warehouse-in-kuwait/

http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/08/10/putin-rebuffs-gulf-cash-for-arms-deal-but-prince-bandar-lets-slip-saudi-arabias-real-agenda-for-syria/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10153629/Syria-3500-tons-of-weapons-already-sent-to-rebels-says-Lord-Ashdown.html

http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2013/08/associated-press-bbc-and-npr-correspondent-dale-gavrak-was-told-by-syrian-rebels-they-were-responsible-for-chem-incident-in-ghouta-2546550.html

Offline Canada Loves Anfield

  • Everything you do is a balloon
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,391
  • Born Under a Liverbird
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #538 on: September 7, 2013, 05:43:33 pm »
Oh yeah bahds?
If it acts like a cock and a banner appears on the kop with its name written down the shaft of a cock, it probably is...

Liverpool FC - Toronto Supporters Club: http://lfctoronto.com/

Offline jerseyhoya

  • Would love to get some of that Cock money
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,275
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #539 on: September 7, 2013, 09:49:48 pm »
CNN Exclusive: Videos show glimpse into evidence for Syria intervention - Videos the administration is showing Congress

Offline alfonso

  • Simply adores orange squash. With not one, not two either, but yea verily with three, that is correct, THREE ice cubes therein! Do not forget his straw though.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,814
  • Salford - crime capital of England
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #540 on: September 8, 2013, 03:05:26 am »
CNN Exclusive: Videos show glimpse into evidence for Syria intervention - Videos the administration is showing Congress

"While the videos are hard to watch, they do not prove who is responsible for the attack".
"I know Liverpool fans care more about their club's success than the national team." Rafael Benitez

"Still we've had the hard times too - one year we finished second." Bob Paisley

"When zonal marking goes wrong, the system is blamed. When man-to-man marking fails, an individual is blamed and the system goes uncriticised." A LFC fan talking sense

Offline jerseyhoya

  • Would love to get some of that Cock money
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,275
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #541 on: September 8, 2013, 05:17:01 am »
The videos themselves don't demonstrate whether the attacks came from the regime or some other source, but they offer a pretty compelling picture that a substantial chemical weapon attack occurred. The completely horrifying images are a useful corrective to the moonbat, self loathing stance of the West isn't doing this for humanitarian reasons, it's because of oil! Nevermind that Syria doesn't have any oil, let's come up with some multilayered conspiracy theory because the idea that the US and others might be doing this for the decent reasons they say they are doing this is too horrible to consider.

There is other intelligence which has convinced the US and EU among others that the Assad regime was responsible for the attacks. As Tapper makes clear in the video, what we've gotten from the administration so far has not proven Assad's culpability to the public. I would hope this week as Obama makes his case to the American people and the Congress that he is more explicit in why he is so convinced by the intelligence. But the attacks have occurred, and they're utterly despicable, and it's worth confronting just how heinous they are in video format as we discuss what ought to be done about it.

Offline Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,849
  • Trada
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #542 on: September 8, 2013, 10:27:29 am »
Britain sent poison gas chemicals to Assad: Proof that the UK delivered Sarin agent to Syrian regime for SIX years

    British companies delivered sodium flouride to Syrian firm from 2004-2010
    The chemical is a key component in manufacture of nerve gas
    Sale has been blasted as 'grossly irresponsible' in light of chemical attacks
    Intelligence expert says substance will have been diverted to regime


 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415081/Britain-sent-poison-gas-chemicals-Assad-Proof-UK-delivered-Sarin-agent-Syrian-regime-SIX-years.html#ixzz2eI9PsWkf

Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,329
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #543 on: September 8, 2013, 04:36:32 pm »
The videos themselves don't demonstrate whether the attacks came from the regime or some other source, but they offer a pretty compelling picture that a substantial chemical weapon attack occurred. The completely horrifying images are a useful corrective to the moonbat, self loathing stance of the West isn't doing this for humanitarian reasons, it's because of oil! Nevermind that Syria doesn't have any oil, let's come up with some multilayered conspiracy theory because the idea that the US and others might be doing this for the decent reasons they say they are doing this is too horrible to consider.

There is other intelligence which has convinced the US and EU among others that the Assad regime was responsible for the attacks. As Tapper makes clear in the video, what we've gotten from the administration so far has not proven Assad's culpability to the public. I would hope this week as Obama makes his case to the American people and the Congress that he is more explicit in why he is so convinced by the intelligence. But the attacks have occurred, and they're utterly despicable, and it's worth confronting just how heinous they are in video format as we discuss what ought to be done about it.
No Oil in Syria ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Syria ( note the $4.1 billion Oil exports in 2009 to EU namely France )

Then we have the Oil Pipelines : (note it is Iranian Oil )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkuk%E2%80%93Banias_pipeline

Then we have the Gas pipelines: ( note it is Saudi Gas )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Gas_Pipeline

It seems somebody may of fallen victim to a conspiracy to convince people there is no Oil in Syria...
or do you believe there is a multi layered conspiracy theory to lie and say Syria has Oil when it doesn't actually have any ?

Offline jerseyhoya

  • Would love to get some of that Cock money
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,275
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #544 on: September 8, 2013, 06:08:32 pm »
$4.1 billion in oil exports is a rounding error in the world oil market. Before the conflict began, Syria ranked 44th in oil exports. their exports have dwindled to basically nothing for two years now, during which time there was little appetite for direct intervention. This changed only when the evidence of nerve gas usage was made public.

The intervention being proposed by Obama doesn't seem likely to end the conflict any sooner. It's directed at sending a message about chemical weapons usage. If their goal was to seize Syria's oil, I don't know sending a few missiles in at a handful of targets would be how I'd go about it. If it makes you feel better to think this is about oil, I guess go right ahead. No law about being wrong.

Offline alfonso

  • Simply adores orange squash. With not one, not two either, but yea verily with three, that is correct, THREE ice cubes therein! Do not forget his straw though.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,814
  • Salford - crime capital of England
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #545 on: September 8, 2013, 06:28:28 pm »
$4.1 billion in oil exports is a rounding error in the world oil market. Before the conflict began, Syria ranked 44th in oil exports. their exports have dwindled to basically nothing for two years now, during which time there was little appetite for direct intervention. This changed only when the evidence of nerve gas usage was made public.

The intervention being proposed by Obama doesn't seem likely to end the conflict any sooner. It's directed at sending a message about chemical weapons usage. If their goal was to seize Syria's oil, I don't know sending a few missiles in at a handful of targets would be how I'd go about it. If it makes you feel better to think this is about oil, I guess go right ahead. No law about being wrong.

So you are saying the US has no interest in regime change then? They just want to send a message to Assad who has already been found guilty of something of which the evidence wouldn't hold up in a court of law.
What about the 'rebels' who were accused of using gas in March? Shouldn't they be carpet bombed too?

When was the last time the US in over 50 (CIA) interventions since WW2 just bombed somewhere and left the place/people to carry on fighting without trying to influence anything?
"I know Liverpool fans care more about their club's success than the national team." Rafael Benitez

"Still we've had the hard times too - one year we finished second." Bob Paisley

"When zonal marking goes wrong, the system is blamed. When man-to-man marking fails, an individual is blamed and the system goes uncriticised." A LFC fan talking sense

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,769
  • The first five yards........
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #546 on: September 8, 2013, 06:50:33 pm »
Blame the Yanks. At least it saves you the discomfort of engaging your brain.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,329
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #547 on: September 8, 2013, 07:07:14 pm »
$4.1 billion in oil exports is a rounding error in the world oil market. Before the conflict began, Syria ranked 44th in oil exports. their exports have dwindled to basically nothing for two years now, during which time there was little appetite for direct intervention. This changed only when the evidence of nerve gas usage was made public.

The intervention being proposed by Obama doesn't seem likely to end the conflict any sooner. It's directed at sending a message about chemical weapons usage. If their goal was to seize Syria's oil, I don't know sending a few missiles in at a handful of targets would be how I'd go about it. If it makes you feel better to think this is about oil, I guess go right ahead. No law about being wrong.
No law about been wrong  :) Is that how the US views its foreign policy ? There is when it involves waging a illegal war on a sovereign nation.

Anyway... on a global scale there is not much Oil to be drilled in Syria but it doesn't change the fact there is huge amounts of Oil and Gas flowing through Syria. Control of these pipes is the point I was making.
I'm not saying its the one and only reason the US, France, Saudi Arabia want a change in regime and Iran don't but I'd be naïve  to believe it couldn't have a influencing factor.
Either way its better than dismissing it out of hand by saying there is no Oil or thinking its just a coincidence that all these country's who are getting involved (including UK )have a vested interest in the Syrian Oil/Gas business.

One thing that is baffling me though is the presence of Bin laden's boys in Syria (fighting Assad) and the (apparent) help they are receiving from Uncle Sam and Saudi Arabia is leaving me confused... I know Saudi Arabia have always been their friends but are the US and Al Qaeda friends again ?

PS Do we know who fired these Chemical Weapons yet ?
« Last Edit: September 8, 2013, 07:09:25 pm by yorkyrawky »

Offline jerseyhoya

  • Would love to get some of that Cock money
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,275
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #548 on: September 8, 2013, 07:46:15 pm »
So you are saying the US has no interest in regime change then? They just want to send a message to Assad who has already been found guilty of something of which the evidence wouldn't hold up in a court of law.
What about the 'rebels' who were accused of using gas in March? Shouldn't they be carpet bombed too?

When was the last time the US in over 50 (CIA) interventions since WW2 just bombed somewhere and left the place/people to carry on fighting without trying to influence anything?
Obama said Assad must go two years ago, and the CIA was authorized to arm vetted rebel groups months ago. But we still haven't armed the rebels. The administration says they want Assad gone, but their actions show they don't seem to have a preference between him or the rebels winning. Obama, Kerry, Hagel, etc. have made it clear that any military action will not directly target the regime.

I'd rather we try to blow Assad up than make a handful of strikes at military targets just to be seen doing something. That'd be an actual lesson. Doesn't seem we're doing that though.

Offline please, I have my reasons for it but...

  • In the grander scheme of things, most definitely has meaning and most definitely has purpose. History Maker.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,825
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #549 on: September 9, 2013, 06:49:24 am »
Syria chemical weapons attack not ordered by Assad, says German press

Bild am Sonntag cites high-level German surveillance source suggesting Syrian president was not personally behind attacks

Simon Tisdall and Josie Le Blond in Berlin
theguardian.com, Sunday 8 September 2013 17.46 BST

President Bashar al-Assad did not personally order last month's chemical weapons attack near Damascus that has triggered calls for US military intervention, and blocked numerous requests from his military commanders to use chemical weapons against regime opponents in recent months, a German newspaper has reported , citing unidentified, high-level national security sources.

The intelligence findings were based on phone calls intercepted by a German surveillance ship operated by the BND, the German intelligence service, and deployed off the Syrian coast, Bild am Sonntag said. The intercepted communications suggested Assad, who is accused of war crimes by the west, including foreign secretary William Hague, was not himself involved in last month's attack or in other instances when government forces have allegedly used chemical weapons.

Assad sought to exonerate himself from the August attack in which hundreds died. "There has been no evidence that I used chemical weapons against my own people," he said in an interview with CBS.

But the intercepts tended to add weight to the claims of the Obama administration and Britain and France that elements of the Assad regime, and not renegade rebel groups, were responsible for the attack in the suburb of Ghouta, Bild said.

President Barack Obama is urging the US Congress to approve military action to deter the Syrian regime from using chemical weapons and degrade its ability to pursue the two-and-a-half-year civil war against rebel forces.

But Obama is facing stiff resistance from Democrats and Republicans in the House of Representatives, who fear involvement in another Middle East war, and from Assad's main ally, Russian president Vladimir Putin, who has said any military strikes conducted without prior UN approval would be illegal.

Speaking in Paris on Sunday during a European tour to rally support for military action, John Kerry, US secretary of state, said Washington did not rule out a return to the UN security council to seek backing for military strikes, once UN inspectors have completed an on-the-ground investigation of the 21 August attack. Their report is expected by the end of the week.

Obama's main European ally, François Hollande of France, is under increasing pressure to seek a UN mandate for any military action in the face of opinion polls suggesting up to 64% of French people oppose air strikes. In a bid to gain the support of fellow EU countries, Hollande pledged at the weekend to take the UN investigatory report into consideration before acting. Hollande also suggested he might seek a UN resolution, despite previous Russian and Chinese vetoes.

"On President Hollande's comments with respect to the UN, the president (Obama), and all of us, are listening carefully to all of our friends," Kerry said after meeting Arab League ministers. "No decision has been made by the president."

"All of us agreed – not one dissenter – that Assad's deplorable use of chemical weapons, which we know killed hundreds of innocent people … this crosses an international, global red line," Kerry said.

Kerry's meeting with Arab ministers, including from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, followed talks in Lithuania with European foreign ministers, who blamed the attack in Syria on Assad but, aware of overwhelming public hostility to an attack, refused to endorse military action. Germany's chancellor, Angela Merkel, who faces a general election in two weeks, led the charge to caution.

Only 12 of the G20 countries which held a summit in Russia last week have backed the US position.

The German intelligence findings concerning Assad's personal role may complicate US-led efforts to persuade the international community that punitive military action is justified. They could also strengthen suspicions that Assad no longer fully controls the country's security apparatus.

Addressing a closed meeting of the German parliamentary committee last week, the BND chief Gerhard Schindler said his agency shared the US view that the attack had been launched by the regime and not the rebels. But he said the spy agency had not have conclusive evidence either way, German media reported.

Schindler said that BND had intercepted a telephone call in which a high-ranking member of Hezbollah in Lebanon told the Iranian embassy in Damascus that Assad had made a big mistake when he gave the order to use the chemicals, the magazine Der Spiegel said.

Schindler added that German intelligence believed Assad would likely remain in power for some time – irrespective of any potential US-led military intervention - and that the civil war could drag on for years.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild
Finished at the age of 26. The Mike Tyson of football.

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/omar_12590

Offline alfonso

  • Simply adores orange squash. With not one, not two either, but yea verily with three, that is correct, THREE ice cubes therein! Do not forget his straw though.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,814
  • Salford - crime capital of England
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #550 on: September 9, 2013, 07:02:26 am »
There was a piece on the BBC last week where John Simpson I think it was said, that he doubted Assad was really running things in Syria.
I seem to remember reading something about that when this all started in 2011.
That doesn't help when you are creating an Emmanuel Goldstein though.
"I know Liverpool fans care more about their club's success than the national team." Rafael Benitez

"Still we've had the hard times too - one year we finished second." Bob Paisley

"When zonal marking goes wrong, the system is blamed. When man-to-man marking fails, an individual is blamed and the system goes uncriticised." A LFC fan talking sense

Offline hide5seek

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,370
  • We all live in THE 5 EUROPEAN CUPS
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #551 on: September 9, 2013, 08:21:36 am »
Need to keep out. Neither side in this Syrian civil war comes across as someone you could trust or do business with. Feel for the people who live there who are innocent etc but we've meddled enough and since prick Bush took us into Iraq on a lie the west is more hated than ever. Keep the fuck out and let the Arab countries sort this shit out.

Offline Red_Mist

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,725
  • CORGI registered friend (but not a gas engineer)
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #552 on: September 9, 2013, 01:14:40 pm »
Caught Kelly and Hague's Press Conference on the news this morning.

This whole 'evidence' issue was interesting. Kelly stated that when he'd been a lawyer, he'd convicted people who are now serving life sentences on far less evidence than currently exists against Assad. Not sure whether that was a wise way to convince the undecided. More likely they'll query the US legal system with that statement. Has any actual evidence been shown? e.g. satellite images of the rockets leaving Assad-controlled launch sites? Actual recordings of intercepted conversations implicating the Assad regime?

He says they exist. Okay fine, but no lawyer goes into court and says, "I know this person did it, I just know, so you have to believe me and convict them". I understand the need for information to remain secure if it's in the national interest for security reasons. But surely his exasperation would lead him to release at least something. Not saying I don't think the Assad regime was responsible, just mulling over the evidence conundrum as it seems to be the one of the main sticking points in winning consensus support for action.

Another question regards the US targeting of chemical weapons with missile attacks is this - we haven't heard (or I've missed it) much about whether the targets are known, or whether (if they are known targets) they are being moved or surrounded by human shield volunteers as you could imagine happening. Also, how much of this stuff exists and what size of an area would be poisoned by blowing it to pieces in a rocket attack?

Yorky made a point about accurate, targeted weaponry & limiting 'collateral damage' and how far that has moved on from indiscriminate carpet bombing as a warfare tactic. But weren't we told that before the last Iraq bombardment...only to wake up to "Shock & Awe", which looked about as carefully targeted as a Djimi Traore clearance upfield. This is what people remember and this is one of the reasons they're not convinced.


Offline hampsy

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 501
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #553 on: September 10, 2013, 09:34:04 am »
It's not always just about oil. This article - Making the World Safe for Banksters
by ELLEN BROWN - helps to explain quite a bit!

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/09/05/making-the-world-safe-for-banksters/




Offline Red_Mist

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,725
  • CORGI registered friend (but not a gas engineer)
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #554 on: September 10, 2013, 09:56:01 am »
Anyone think this Russian proposal has any chance of success? Can't see it myself, but happy to be proved wrong.

Offline JohnnoWhite

  • Deliverer of the -Q- de grace.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,968
  • Thought I was wrong once - but I was mistaken.
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #555 on: September 10, 2013, 10:02:39 am »
I can see it actually. Obama seems to me inclined to grab a hold of it with both hands. With Putin pushing Assad from his end into a independently-confirmed destruction of chemical weaponry, I can see it saving everyone's face and averting yet another Middle-East catastrophe.

Sadly though the conflict which has killed tens of thousands and displaced over 2 million Syrians is still far from resolved.
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

Offline Red_Mist

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,725
  • CORGI registered friend (but not a gas engineer)
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #556 on: September 10, 2013, 10:25:17 am »
Hope you're right Johnno. They'll have to admit they've got them first though.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,769
  • The first five yards........
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #557 on: September 10, 2013, 10:48:15 am »
 
independently-confirmed destruction of chemical weaponry

It would be a fantastic result if it happened. Like Johnno says it wouldn't spell the end of the bloody civil war, or undo the destruction that's already happened, but it would ensure that one great humanitarian step had been taken in that part of the world.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline The Fletcher Memorial

  • Feels mildly violat.................. ed
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,941
  • Reality is hard to find
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #558 on: September 10, 2013, 12:29:54 pm »

The intervention being proposed by Obama doesn't seem likely to end the conflict any sooner. It's directed at sending a message about chemical weapons usage.

Fuck me that’s depressing, isn’t it? Not just because, as a supporter of this proposed “intervention”, you openly admit it won’t bring conflict to an end any time sooner but you also so matter of factly state it’s all about sending a message. The message of a bully and like all bullies the cowardice is never far from view “oi, you can’t go doing that in front of me, don’t you know who I am? Here, take this punishment while everyone watches - oh hang on, not everyone is watching yet, we must wait until everyone can see how tough and just and spangley we are; ok here we go - boom, kabang, boom, die you, blow you up, kill you. Kill you and you, kill you. Die random kids – oh, sorry we didn’t mean you, we meant to hit them bad guys, honest mistake – anyway, die you and you with these nice weapons that blow you into a thousand of pieces. Now let that be a lesson to everyone; kill nicely but if you kill with nasty dirty bombs you’ll have us to answer too. Now go back to killing nicely.

And of course, there couldn’t be, just not possibly be any ulterior motives or behind the scenes shenanigans going on, could there? No proxy war or anything tin hatted like that? I mean yes, that has happened before and it goes on all the time to further protect and reinforce merica’s interests under the banner of freedom and humanitarianism but just for once take us at our word and trust us. This time is different, we only want to blow up the bad guys, that’s all, I mean look what they did to those children, surely you are with us, right?

Because if you’re not with us, you’re against us.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 12:31:39 pm by The Fletcher Memorial »
The sky does not know of east or of west;
it is in the minds of men where such distinctions are made, and then they believe them to be true.

Offline mactifosi

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,260
Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #559 on: September 10, 2013, 12:34:39 pm »
No law about been wrong  :) Is that how the US views its foreign policy ? There is when it involves waging a illegal war on a sovereign nation.

Anyway... on a global scale there is not much Oil to be drilled in Syria but it doesn't change the fact there is huge amounts of Oil and Gas flowing through Syria. Control of these pipes is the point I was making.
I'm not saying its the one and only reason the US, France, Saudi Arabia want a change in regime and Iran don't but I'd be naïve  to believe it couldn't have a influencing factor.
Either way its better than dismissing it out of hand by saying there is no Oil or thinking its just a coincidence that all these country's who are getting involved (including UK )have a vested interest in the Syrian Oil/Gas business.

One thing that is baffling me though is the presence of Bin laden's boys in Syria (fighting Assad) and the (apparent) help they are receiving from Uncle Sam and Saudi Arabia is leaving me confused... I know Saudi Arabia have always been their friends but are the US and Al Qaeda friends again ?

PS Do we know who fired these Chemical Weapons yet ?

As I have probably written previously, Saudi Arabia is the single biggest problem in the middle-east along with the stalled peace process in Israel.
I did not know about the pipelines but it does make perfect sense.
Syria in many ways is a symptom of these overlying problems.

There are a number of major elements to this in my opinion:
- geo-politics and economics with SA vying with Iran to be the regions super power.
- much of the West's policy towards Iran is dictated by Saudi Arabia and the oil producing gulf states, not by Israel (Netanyahu is just exploiting it for political gain).

The second being religious ethnicity with SA funding many of the regions anti-Shia paramilitaries.
For example the groups pushing for reform in the gulf, are in the main the Shia minority who have been brutally put down - they are ironically branded as Al Qaeda.
Anyway who has the even the slightest knowledge of Al Qaeda would know that is fundamentally opposed to the Shia heresy and has been responsible for many of the bomb attacks on Shias in the greater region.

Saudi Arabia has been and continues to be the biggest source of funding and logistical support for Al Qaeda and affiliated groups across the globe, from Western Africa to Asia.
Many of these Al Qaeda affiliated fighters in Syria came from Western countries like Ireland for example, they were trained by the Qataris and it was not done without the knowledge of the interested parties.

Even though removely Assad does benefit the Saudis, I do think the emerging Iranian/Iragi powerblock could be a force which may help to stabilise the region.

Even with all these factors I do think we have a moral obligation to help end the civil war to reduce the killing, even though a likely result is an Alawite insurgency and perhaps an enhanced oil-rich federal Kurdistan.