Author Topic: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?  (Read 6096 times)

Offline LiamG

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #80 on: June 5, 2013, 11:39:55 PM »
Mate, before I've been prematurely retired due to health issues, I have been working professionally with the Adriatic Basketball Association. It would be fair to say that I probably know more about combining different nations, cultures, religions and traditions into one sports competition, than you will ever know. I have tried to suggest my experience on the issue, and see if there will be any interest about the model in the specific case of the smaller leagues of Scotland, Ireland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It is your prerogative not to like it.


Just out of interest have you ever watched/Followed the Welsh Premier league or the irish league's?

Offline RaveDave

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #81 on: June 6, 2013, 01:13:23 AM »
As a match going supporter of my local side in the Northern Ireland Premier League, the things that have killed our league more than most is Sky TV and budget airlines, when i first started going to games in the very late eighties early nineties the attendances at games were 3-4 times what they are now, for our local derby games we would have 6-7,000 at them, games were regularly delayed to allow fans to get into the grounds now our derby game would have around 1500-2000 going to it, when you talk to lapsed fans and ask them why, they will tell you they save their money and fly to England now maybe 3-4 times a season to watch decent football (obviously not Stoke fans).

As the attendances in our league have fallen obviously so has the income of clubs, which has led to a drop off in the quality of football as we can no longer afford to supplement the local players in the league with Scottish and southern Irish players as most clubs had been able to do for years.

Another thing that at the time hurt our league was the Taylor Report, when it was published and the push for all seater stadiums started, clubs in the mainland UK were able to access funding to upgrade their stadiums, teams in NI were denied access to these funds but were promised that it was an oversight and would be rectified (it never was) this led to the gap in facilities starting to really widen between even the lower league teams on the mainland and those in NI, which again enhanced the going to English games experience for the former Irish League fan.

In recent years in NI, grants have been made available to teams to enable them to upgrade facilities, and this has seen a big improvement in most teams stadiums, but this has sadly brought its own problems as virtually all stadiums are now all seater even if the grounds only have two sides with seated stands, terracing has had to have been closed as health and safety rules have gotten stricter and stricter pushing unsustainable costs onto clubs. The by product of the all seater stadiums has been the virtual end of decent atmospheres in grounds were once opposition fans would be separated by fencing and could sing/goad/taunt each other all game now they are at opposite ends of the ground, this last few years young fans who have tried to bring atmosphere back to games have been virtually hounded out by stewards quoting health and safety protocols.

How do you improve the Welsh/Northern Irish/Irish leagues that is a question with no easy answer I'm afraid, in the case of NI I'm not sure it is fixable, thousands of football fans on a Saturday afternoon would rather sit in a pub and watch a Premier League game, you have no chance of getting them to an IL match, another thing in NI is we don't have Sunday leagues like England all our equivalent teams play on a Saturday, so thats thousands of football people playing that could be watching local teams, these teams refuse to move their games.

The one thing i would like to try is summer football, you no longer have the competition from the Premier League for around 3 months of the season, better weather, better pitches which should lead to better football, it has been a success in the Republic. I think another major thing that has to improve is coaching, players are not being taught the proper way to play football but again that's not easy as the vast majority of these youth "coaches" are just volunteers trying to help out and the cost of these volunteers getting proper coaching credentials is very expensive. We have been fortunate enough over this last 10 years to have qualified for Europe about 5 or 6 times and have played teams of various standards and have even managed to knock a couple out but even those that we have knocked out Skonto Riga from Latvia and SK Shkendija from Macedonia have been technically superior to us there is no reason for this two be the case as they are both small countries with similar populations to NI.

I know my post is very specific to NI, but i'm sure some of the points apply to Wales and even Scotland aswell.

Offline LiamG

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #82 on: June 6, 2013, 01:43:58 AM »

The one thing i would like to try is summer football, you no longer have the competition from the Premier League for around 3 months of the season, better weather, better pitches which should lead to better football, it has been a success in the Republic. I think another major thing that has to improve is coaching, players are not being taught the proper way to play football but again that's not easy as the vast majority of these youth "coaches" are just volunteers trying to help out and the cost of these volunteers getting proper coaching credentials is very expensive. We have been fortunate enough over this last 10 years to have qualified for Europe about 5 or 6 times and have played teams of various standards and have even managed to knock a couple out but even those that we have knocked out Skonto Riga from Latvia and SK Shkendija from Macedonia have been technically superior to us there is no reason for this two be the case as they are both small countries with similar populations to NI.

I know my post is very specific to NI, but i'm sure some of the points apply to Wales and even Scotland aswell.

See now most fans i know of the Welsh Premiership are against Summer football, Like you said the premiership is one the biggest reason to why these leagues struggle! Especially when the majority of football fans who live in north wales all support the big NW Premiership clubs

So it makes sense to move to summer, or at least give it a go! Even then in south wales too there's no Swansea or Cardiff to compete with for fans!

Offline LiamG

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #83 on: June 6, 2013, 03:46:02 AM »


Who is your local team by the way?

Offline Dani LFC

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #84 on: June 6, 2013, 09:31:48 AM »
Just out of interest have you ever watched/Followed the Welsh Premier league or the irish league's?

Admittedly, I have only watched Irish, Welsh and Northern Irish clubs in the European competitions. Some of them on TV, and some of them in person, when they were playing clubs from my country. I was not particularly impressed with their level of technical ability, but the intensity of their game and their physical level seems quite good.

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #85 on: June 6, 2013, 09:48:16 AM »
Admittedly, I have only watched Irish, Welsh and Northern Irish clubs in the European competitions. Some of them on TV, and some of them in person, when they were playing clubs from my country. I was not particularly impressed with their level of technical ability, but the intensity of their game and their physical level seems quite good.

What is your country, out of interest? And which Irish, Welsh and Northern Irish clubs were they against?
Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

Offline Dani LFC

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #86 on: June 6, 2013, 10:05:21 AM »
What is your country, out of interest? And which Irish, Welsh and Northern Irish clubs were they against?

Macedonia. The clubs I have watched in person were Crusaders, Portadown and Glentoran.

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #87 on: June 6, 2013, 10:11:54 AM »
Macedonia. The clubs I have watched in person were Crusaders, Portadown and Glentoran.

Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

Offline LiamG

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #88 on: June 6, 2013, 12:58:38 PM »
Macedonia. The clubs I have watched in person were Crusaders, Portadown and Glentoran.


How have you seen welsh premiership teams?

Offline Dani LFC

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #89 on: June 6, 2013, 01:09:53 PM »
How have you seen welsh premiership teams?

On TV, in the qualifying rounds of the Champions League and the Europa League. Not much football on TV in July, so I don't mind watching the qualifying rounds of both competitions.

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #90 on: June 6, 2013, 01:14:09 PM »
Macedonia. The clubs I have watched in person were Crusaders, Portadown and Glentoran.
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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #91 on: June 6, 2013, 01:18:48 PM »
On TV, in the qualifying rounds of the Champions League and the Europa League. Not much football on TV in July, so I don't mind watching the qualifying rounds of both competitions.

You've never watched a Welsh Premier League match, ever. Or Irish. Or Northern Irish. But you've concluded that the quality is poor by watching their sides in Europe, early in pre-season when many teams notoriously struggle?
Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

Offline ThepepeReina

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #92 on: June 6, 2013, 01:20:47 PM »
You've never watched a Welsh Premier League match, ever. Or Irish. Or Northern Irish. But you've concluded that the quality is poor by watching their sides in Europe, early in pre-season when many teams notoriously struggle?
I think he saw us play TNS in 06 and thats it.
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Offline Dani LFC

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #93 on: June 6, 2013, 01:38:30 PM »
I think he saw us play TNS in 06 and thats it.

We haven't played TNS in 2006.

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #94 on: June 6, 2013, 01:39:42 PM »
We haven't played TNS in 2006.
05/06 season?
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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #95 on: June 6, 2013, 01:42:33 PM »
Macedonian_Red!

Yes!

How have you been?

I have missed you.

Offline Dani LFC

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #96 on: June 6, 2013, 01:42:47 PM »
05/06 season?

We have played TNS in July 2005, but that is not what you have said:

I think he saw us play TNS in 06 and thats it.

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #97 on: June 6, 2013, 01:45:29 PM »
I'm not convinced by talk of celtic leagues. Football is all about beating the team down the road, not the team in another country. I'm afraid that the only realistic option for the smaller leagues, is to force financial stability on them, and to throw as much money as possible at youth coaching, in the hope that a rising tide lifts all boats. we throw comparatively as many uefa A and B qualified coaches at our young players, then the standard of our leagues will increase as more of our young players are exposed to the most modern standards of technical and tactical preparation from an early stage. 

The Irish, the Northern Irish and the Welsh leagues are a completely different thing to the scottish premier league. There are a number of factors that mean that they are always going to operating at the edges of professionalism. and be more comparable in size to clubs in the second tier of the scottish leagues at best.

The welsh league is always going to suffer from Cardiff and swansea playing in the english league, and now playing in the premiership. The Irish leagues are always going to have to compete with the GAA on the ground for players, with the premiership and the old firm on the telly. However there are quite a few players, playing in england who came through the league of ireland system. Shane Long who just scored at wembley was at cork city for quite a while, and seamus coleman who put in that beautiful cross is a product of sligo rovers. The league of ireland should be looking to develop this kind of player, and getting a better price for them. Not everyone can go to england, or make it immediately. If we improve the level of youth coaching, to where most players have access to a Uefa badged coach, and increase the technical education of our players, then the number of players who would be able to make the leap to england would  substantially increase. It's all about getting as much as possible out of the available pool of players.

The way ahead for scottish football is to become a nursery league, where you seek to develop players, and get a good price for them because you are financially stable. Celtic have established a very successful model. they're going to try and set themselves up as a poor mans porto. They got to a CL second round with a team built for peanuts. They could sell Wanyama, Hooper, Forster, Izaguirre for large sums of money, on top of the profits they made from the CL. They can then go about finding the next group of players. while expecting to win the league next season. Other scottish clubs should seek to follow this approach, but tailored to their level of income. But the cornerstone of this is to spend money on youth coaching.

Offline LiamG

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #98 on: June 6, 2013, 02:09:35 PM »
On TV, in the qualifying rounds of the Champions League and the Europa League. Not much football on TV in July, so I don't mind watching the qualifying rounds of both competitions.


Well the only team from the welsh premiership who have been on TV in recent years in europe are TNS which was the game against LFC

So one team you have seen in the whole of the welsh premiership?

Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #99 on: June 6, 2013, 02:14:22 PM »
But isn't that just the problem RH, that there is little attention paid to coaching?  And by attention I mean funding.

I mean what real incentive is there for someone to go into coaching apart from for the love of the game?  Football Association's should look to attract talented people by offering incentives.  For example, given the number of unemployed graduates we have, why are these people not targeted?  Offer them L1 & L2 courses.  The cost is peanuts for someone like the FA.  If they enjoy it or do well they can progress.

Offline Dani LFC

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #100 on: June 6, 2013, 02:23:43 PM »
Well the only team from the welsh premiership who have been on TV in recent years in europe are TNS which was the game against LFC

So one team you have seen in the whole of the welsh premiership?

Mate, you do realize that there is life outside SkySports?



Like I have said above, not much football on TV in July, so the CL and EL qualifiers could be quite interesting.

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #101 on: June 6, 2013, 02:34:16 PM »
Like I have said above, not much football on TV in July, so the CL and EL qualifiers could be quite interesting.

You didn't really answer his question, just made another irrelevant statement?

I'm not aware that Welsh League football is shown live anywhere, so aside from TNS against Liverpool I don't know where you'd have seen any Welsh League sides in the CL or EL?
Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

Offline Dani LFC

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #102 on: June 6, 2013, 02:38:21 PM »
You didn't really answer his question, just made another irrelevant statement?

I'm not aware that Welsh League football is shown live anywhere, so aside from TNS against Liverpool I don't know where you'd have seen any Welsh League sides in the CL or EL?

Bangor City against Chisinau last summer.

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #103 on: June 6, 2013, 02:48:20 PM »
But isn't that just the problem RH, that there is little attention paid to coaching?  And by attention I mean funding.

I mean what real incentive is there for someone to go into coaching apart from for the love of the game?  Football Association's should look to attract talented people by offering incentives.  For example, given the number of unemployed graduates we have, why are these people not targeted?  Offer them L1 & L2 courses.  The cost is peanuts for someone like the FA.  If they enjoy it or do well they can progress.

But someone prepared to do that, is the sort of person who is very likely to find a job. you'd be back to square one if they couldn't devote the time to coaching, and you'd have wasted a lot of your resources. I don't know where you would find the people to do this, but you could start by offering the courses to the people already involved, and improving their standards. Germany and spain found some means of doing this.

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #104 on: June 6, 2013, 02:49:54 PM »
Bangor City against Chisinau last summer.

 :wellin
Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

Offline Dani LFC

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #105 on: June 6, 2013, 02:53:12 PM »
:wellin

And I have also watched Llanelli couple of seasons ago, but I can't remember the name of the opponents. It was some Baltic club, as far as I can remember. Sad to hear that they went into administration.

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #106 on: June 6, 2013, 04:01:14 PM »
But someone prepared to do that, is the sort of person who is very likely to find a job. you'd be back to square one if they couldn't devote the time to coaching, and you'd have wasted a lot of your resources. I don't know where you would find the people to do this, but you could start by offering the courses to the people already involved, and improving their standards. Germany and spain found some means of doing this.
But is it really a lot of resource?  I don't know.  It's a small commitment from the FA.  They have courses running all the time with empty slots.  Maybe for every 10 graduates you'll find a decent coach.  But that coach may go on to become a UEFA B or UEFA A qualified coach and add to the measly number of approximately 3,000 we currently have in this country.  The numbers in Spain and Germany dwarf this.  How much value can you really put on this?

We really need to start looking at the people attracted to coaching also.  Is it the failed footballer or the 'just feckin head it' football dad or those just looking for a 3 month break out in the US for the summer?  We need quality candidates.

When I'm talking about attracting graduates, what I mean is attracting those people that will challenge the conventional wisdom which litters the sport.  People from different fields will bring new ideas and new ways of tackling the challenges we face.  It doesn't have to be graduates but anyone that can add value.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #107 on: June 6, 2013, 04:22:22 PM »
But is it really a lot of resource?  I don't know.  It's a small commitment from the FA.  They have courses running all the time with empty slots.  Maybe for every 10 graduates you'll find a decent coach.  But that coach may go on to become a UEFA B or UEFA A qualified coach and add to the measly number of approximately 3,000 we currently have in this country.  The numbers in Spain and Germany dwarf this.  How much value can you really put on this?

We really need to start looking at the people attracted to coaching also.  Is it the failed footballer or the 'just feckin head it' football dad or those just looking for a 3 month break out in the US for the summer?  We need quality candidates.

When I'm talking about attracting graduates, what I mean is attracting those people that will challenge the conventional wisdom which litters the sport.  People from different fields will bring new ideas and new ways of tackling the challenges we face.  It doesn't have to be graduates but anyone that can add value.

At the youth levels, taking "winning" out of the equation and forcing more possession by using small goals that are difficult to score in is one thing that national associations could do to improve that area of youth coaching. Then, you will lose most, if not all, of the failed footballer and "just feckin' head it"  types and attract more of the progressive pass and move skill coaches.

Although to be fair, most coaches are "Failed footballers" - that's why we're coaches :D
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Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #108 on: June 6, 2013, 04:52:02 PM »
Hahaha PoP.  Not trying to generalise with the 'failed footballer' thing.  I know quality coaches can come from all types of backgrounds.

Offline RaveDave

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #109 on: June 6, 2013, 06:49:34 PM »
See now most fans i know of the Welsh Premiership are against Summer football, Like you said the premiership is one the biggest reason to why these leagues struggle! Especially when the majority of football fans who live in north wales all support the big NW Premiership clubs

So it makes sense to move to summer, or at least give it a go! Even then in south wales too there's no Swansea or Cardiff to compete with for fans!

Its the same with alot of IL fans they don't want to change either, and their reason is because its tradition, very short sighted IMO, like you say it should be trialed.

Who is your local team by the way?

Portadown, when i say my local team its not really, there are a couple closer to me but its where my dad was born and he has been a supporter all his life.

Offline RaveDave

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #110 on: June 6, 2013, 06:56:21 PM »
Macedonia. The clubs I have watched in person were Crusaders, Portadown and Glentoran.


Wow, I was over at our game with Shkendija in Macedonia last year, stayed in Skopje, it was a cracking trip.

Offline LiamG

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #111 on: June 7, 2013, 08:54:16 AM »
Mate, you do realize that there is life outside SkySports?



Like I have said above, not much football on TV in July, so the CL and EL qualifiers could be quite interesting.
Yeah of course i do because every seaason Bangor have been in europe i've searched the internet long n hard for any kind of stream!


anyone know how much it costs for coaches to go on these UEFA A and B courses?

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #112 on: June 7, 2013, 09:04:58 AM »
anyone know how much it costs for coaches to go on these UEFA A and B courses?

I don't think the actual courses are hugely expensive, but I think there's lots of qualifications and circumstances you need before you'd be considered. But again, its a pittance really. To get a coach fully qualified up to UEFA A standard, from what I can see from a quick google, wouldn't cost more than a few thousand.
Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

Offline LiamG

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #113 on: June 7, 2013, 09:19:35 AM »
a few thousand is a lot of money for a welsh premiership team

So the investment would have to come from the Welsh FA? can't see that happening, they don't give a shit about the welsh league

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #114 on: June 7, 2013, 09:22:30 AM »
a few thousand is a lot of money for a welsh premiership team

So the investment would have to come from the Welsh FA? can't see that happening, they don't give a shit about the welsh league

Oh yeah no doubt about that. That's the issue. Its not the clubs, they're living within their means as best they can. When you're averaging a few hundred attendance every week, there really isn't a great deal you can improve upon.
Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #115 on: June 7, 2013, 09:28:09 AM »
anyone know how much it costs for coaches to go on these UEFA A and B courses?
FA Level 1 & 2 courses cost approximately £150 & £350 respectively.  I've heard they can be cheaper also.

The UEFA B and A course go into the thousands but around £2k, £3k but someone like PoP can probably confirm.

Just to elaborate on my point, the L1 and L2 courses are not expensive.  To individuals yes, but to a governing body?

I've also been told that the UEFA B and A courses are notoriously difficult to pass through the English FA.

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #116 on: June 7, 2013, 09:58:39 AM »
Oh yeah no doubt about that. That's the issue. Its not the clubs, they're living within their means as best they can. When you're averaging a few hundred attendance every week, there really isn't a great deal you can improve upon.
I know next to nothing about the funding for the Welsh clubs/league.  But judging my your posts and others it seems the league is severely short of money.  However, investments in coaching are not hugely expensive.  The problem is that you pay for something now that will only bear fruit sometime in the future.  And an uncertain future at that.  So it's a long-term process, which requires careful management to ensure you see it through.  I can see why clubs don't invest.  It's a difficult decision.

The English FA have no such excuse.  They are simply at the mercy of the Premier League.  The amount of money lost to transfers, agents, wages is astonishing.  If they could find a way of filtering that money back to the grassroots then the long-term benefits are there for the taking.  Personally I would target transfers.  That's where the money is haemorrhaging out of the system.  A tax which allows the governing body to maintain the game.  Because pretty soon there will be nothing left.

Offline LiamG

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #117 on: June 7, 2013, 10:11:54 AM »
I think in all fairness the Welsh FA needs like a development guy to oversee the whole structure of it, Like you said invest now get the benefits later! (pop you free? lol)

Was Van Gaal a huge part in the dutch model?


This is quite good!
http://www.jasondevos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Dutch-Football-Youth-Development.pdf
« Last Edit: June 7, 2013, 10:20:29 AM by LiamG »

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #118 on: June 7, 2013, 10:29:32 AM »
Yeah I think some sort of tax is a good idea.

Again though I look at this deal for Canas, where he's joining us because Barca are not permitted to offer him more than an 'average' wage and cant help but think if we introduced that in this country we'd actually be better off (even if us as a giant would suffer slightly). If you want a level playing field, you have to risk pissing off the big boys. You tell Man Utd and Liverpool you can only pay sixteen year olds up to £16k a year and seventeen year olds up to £17k a year then you'll see a huge reduction in the amount of youngsters moving at such a young age and then dropping off the map.

As for the Welsh league, I have no idea how that can be realistically improved really. Take Llanelli who have been mentioned. They've recently been wound up but had played in European qualifiers for the last five seasons. Their average attendance was roughly the same as my local club, as in properly local down the road. Oadby Town. And they play in the tenth tier in English football I believe. And they're located literally opposite the Leicester Tigers training ground in a town/village notoriously popular for rugby. They've got a few former Leicester City players in their ranks including Matt Piper, who once moved for £4 million.

But yeah I guess its all about location. I'm in a good spot because the Loughborough University is one of the best in the country for sports. My mate went to Uni with Chris Davies for example, who I believe is with us now and someone Brendan Rodgers has taken to Swansea and Liverpool. So logically it should all trickle down.

Llanelli was one of the biggest club sides in Wales, they have a population of less than 50,000 people whereas Oadby and Wigston have a larger population and yet in the area, aside from Leicester City, you've got another six/seven clubs comparable in size to Llanelli. Barrow, Coalville, Hinkley, Anstey, Shepshed etc.

Llanelli went to the wall over debts of £21k. I'm sure there's a fair few on these boards who owe substantially more than that.

If there isn't the interest from anywhere to improve the game, then you're pissing into the wind really. It must be a huge frustration to see Cardiff and Swansea thriving too. Cardiff has one of the best sports Universities in the UK and produced a shitload of athletes at the Olympics/Paralympics. I guess that's where the priorities lie right now.
« Last Edit: June 7, 2013, 10:33:25 AM by El Lobo »
Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

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Re: Small Leagues - What you do to improve them?
« Reply #119 on: June 7, 2013, 11:02:59 AM »
Yeah of course i do because every seaason Bangor have been in europe i've searched the internet long n hard for any kind of stream!

I will answer that in PM.