Topic: Suarez Banned For Ten Matches. No Appeal.

[Mutton Geoff]

If there's a white person who is comfortable using it with his black friends and they are comfortable with that too, then we've arrived at a good place. I don't have any problem with that. If he starts using it to random people in the street though, he might find it difficult.

And I think it's obvious that the colour of your skin usually drives the context of the word in this case, much as we might wish otherwise.

Your last sentence then would make a discriminatory person  bordering on racism, it is the context of the word and how it used that is important not the colour of the person using it .

 By the way if  that white bloke who is comfortable enough using it with his black mates did it in a bar you were in, would you automatically believe he was a racist.

[Kwaideng]

Apparently that doesn't work with the Klan, in the dark, in the country

Yes I know  but we live in Somerset in the country where the zider apples grow and I'm a fucking scouser so there is a double threat to watch out for.

[jaffod]

I answered in the post you quoted of me?? Plenty of people are telling you why.

I see you don't really want an answer though, you're just taking a "stand" to be all big.


Well done.

Yes, you've rumbled me, that's what I'm doing.

Well done.

[B0151?]

I don't get this "if I can't say it, they can't say it" attitude, regardless of what you think, that's how it comes off to me. I don't understand it. It's a bit weird this thread has descended to it really.

It all boils down to intent for me. Why would your average white fella say it without being offensive?

It's not a case of "WHITE PEOPLE CAN'T USE IT", it's a case of, why the fuck would one use it?

[Black Bull Nova]

Yes I know  but we live in Somerset in the country where the zider apples grow and I'm a fucking scouser so there is a double threat to watch out for.

Unfortunately I have come across such people in the dark, in the country (over the other side of the atlantic I must point out, although you can't see what side of the atlantic I'm saying this from of course)

[Nessy76]

Your last sentence then would make a discriminatory person  bordering on racism, it is the context of the word and how it used that is important not the colour of the person using it .

My sentence would make a person? Don't follow you, sorry.
Context is essential, yes. But in the case of a racially charged term, skin colour IS often a very important aspect of that context.

By the way if  that white bloke who is comfortable enough using it with his black mates did it in a bar you were in, would you automatically believe he was a racist.

Not automatically, no. It would depend, as you say, on the context.

[jaffod]

You're an idiot

Thanks for that in depth explanation as to why I'm wrong, you've brilliantly dismantled my argument right there.

[Kwaideng]

Unfortunately I have come across such people in the dark, in the country (over the other side of the atlantic I must point out, although you can't see what side of the atlantic I'm saying this from of course)

Strange Fruit indeed mate.

[J-Mc-]

I don't get this "if I can't say it, they can't say it" attitude, regardless of what you think, that's how it comes off to me. I don't understand it. It's a bit weird this thread has descended to it really.

It all boils down to intent for me. Why would your average white fella say it without being offensive?

It's not a case of "WHITE PEOPLE CAN'T USE IT", it's a case of, why the fuck would one use it?

It's an american phenomenom IMO, you see so many films now with a group of lads, some white, some black, all using it without any fuss, you hear about gangsters calling each other it yet if a white man uses it then it's deemed racist.

Personally think no one should use it, a black person saying it is hypocritical whereas a white man using it is usually a form of disgust/anger.

i'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter the colour of someones skin, religion or background, discrimination of any kind is disgusting.

[Lenin.]

All this is putting me in mind of Tim Roth in Gridlock'd.

[tellusajoke]

So when's the PFA Chairman resigning then?

[Snail]

Quite interested by this "white person using the word jokingly with his black mates, har har har, everyone's happy, no offence whatsoever taken" argument, actually. I'd wager that this doesn't happen very often. And frankly, just because someone laughs it off and says they're okay with it, it doesn't actually mean they ARE okay with it, does it?

[RyanBabel19]

Why not? Nessy stated it's not racism when they use it. So in effect you can discriminate and abuse somebody providing you are of the same race.
 So surely someone who is 60 years old can do the same to another 60 year old. Or a male can discriminate or abuse another male?
 

Using the n word to someone of the same race isn't discriminating against them OR abusing them, arguments dead in the water instantly.

I am black, i don't use the word as i dont see a reason for using it, but if i were to use it to say my older brother i'm not discriminating against him or abusing him.

There is no comparison to be made between the two examples you gave, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, because you are talking about a scenario in which the word isn't even being used in the way you describe.

The fact this thread hasn't been locked is a fucking insult

[sideshowme]

Is quite right although it gets complicated because intent and the taking of offence are often at odds which often requires judgement

that's very true, but i think a lot of that is fed into by the hysteria caused around language by the media at both ends of the debate. 

language tends to find its own equilibrium and settles down in context over time, but not when there is a shitstorm stirred up around every hint of a banned word in the public sphere (but oddly not for the far more common racist/xenophobic/discriminatory intent of phrases or sentences made up of seemingly innocuous words... see the FA vs luis suarez part 1 for several examples of that).

[Mutton Geoff]

My sentence would make a person? Don't follow you, sorry.
Context is essential, yes. But in the case of a racially charged term, skin colour IS often a very important aspect of that context.
Not automatically, no. It would depend, as you say, on the context.

So what's the context now you don't know what colour I am after all. You are the person seeing a colour I am seeing a group of people.
Your stance actually harms the notion of a multicultural society rather than enhance it, because it seems you need to put people into boxes based solely on the colour of their skin which dictates what they can say and how they can act . 

whereas a balanced non racist person should just see another person!

[KiNki]

Quite interested by this "white person using the word jokingly with his black mates, har har har, everyone's happy, no offence whatsoever taken" argument, actually. I'd wager that this doesn't happen very often. And frankly, just because someone laughs it off and says they're okay with it, it doesn't actually mean they ARE okay with it, does it?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/04/man-cleared-racial-abuse-endearment

[Snail]

It's an american phenomenom IMO, you see so many films now with a group of lads, some white, some black, all using it without any fuss, you hear about gangsters calling each other it yet if a white man uses it then it's deemed racist.

Personally think no one should use it, a black person saying it is hypocritical whereas a white man using it is usually a form of disgust/anger.

i'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter the colour of someones skin, religion or background, discrimination of any kind is disgusting.

No, it's not "hypocritical". Hypocritical would be if they were using it with the original intent. When a black person calls another black person ****** do you think they're saying it to dehumanise, oppress and attempt to enforce the "superiority" of their own race over the race of the person they're saying it to? Or do you think perhaps it's the result of a community's attempts to reclaim a word that quite frankly drips with blood and the very, very worst of humanity and take just a little bit of the hurt from it? In much the same way that the LGBT community have done, for example?

[Gifted Right Foot]

what the hell happened to this thread?

[Kwaideng]

what the hell happened to this thread?

There ain't many songs.

[Lenin.]

Using the n word to someone of the same race isn't discriminating against them OR abusing them, arguments dead in the water instantly.

Surely that's up to the recipient?

[Jshooters]

Is right mate - it's gone off on too far an uncomfortable tangent

[Kwaideng]

Using the n word to someone of the same race isn't discriminating against them OR abusing them, arguments dead in the water instantly.

I am black, i don't use the word as i dont see a reason for using it, but if i were to use it to say my older brother i'm not discriminating against him or abusing him.

There is no comparison to be made between the two examples you gave, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, because you are talking about a scenario in which the word isn't even being used in the way you describe.

The fact this thread hasn't been locked is a fucking insult

Lighten up mate.

[Nessy76]

So what's the context now you don't know what colour I am after all. You are the person seeing a colour I am seeing a group of people.
Your stance actually harms the notion of a multicultural society rather than enhance it, because it seems you need to put people into boxes based solely on the colour of their skin which dictates what they can say and how they can act . 

whereas a balanced non racist person should just see another person!

So now I'm racist?
Grow up.

[Snail]

Regardless, it always baffles me that so many white people seem to be so very, very hurt and upset that they can't use that word without being considered a worthless c*nt.

[KiNki]

So when's the PFA Chairman resigning then?

Gordon looks a little tipsey. Nothing new there. But I guess the real issue once you've got past all the subtext of racism and whatnot, is the fact, the fa is abit of a mess, the union is led by a dinosaur who likes the bottle, his million pound salary, and getting his ore in.  They are good at self praising and back slapping but not so much a fan of criticism. 

[Il Capitano]

I don't get this "if I can't say it, they can't say it" attitude, regardless of what you think, that's how it comes off to me. I don't understand it. It's a bit weird this thread has descended to it really.

It all boils down to intent for me. Why would your average white fella say it without being offensive?

It's an issue in hip hop. Most white rappers don't use it. If you're a white person, can you sing along to a song with the word in it? It's a very complicated issue.

This is a issue with the standards of the colossal set of dullards that run the FA and PFA, though, and their absurd ideas of dealing with racial issues.

[jaffod]

Regardless, it always baffles me that so many white people seem to be so very, very hurt and upset that they can't use that word without being considered a worthless c*nt.

You actually know a lot of white people who want to use the word 'n****r' and are hurt and upset that they can't? I think you're lying.

[KiNki]

what the hell happened to this thread?

Some people got precious and dragged it off onto all kinds of tangents when it should be ripe for a good old fa hypocrites piss taking.

[Nessy76]

You actually know a lot of white people who want to use the word 'n****r' and are hurt and upset that they can't? I think you're lying.

Well you've been sobbing about it for the last three pages...

[the 92A]

Seems to me That the thread is in danger of descending into the mire . Context and intention deems whether a word or phrase is racist, an innocuous word like 'Boy' can be racist used with that intent, the N word was always racist until black Americans tried to claim it back, but there is massive dangers in trying that as you end up with all sorts of contradictions as we've witnessed tonight.


The one indisputable thing is the hypocracy of the football industry in all this. Bernstein and the FA wrongly told us that context and intention wasn't important in the Suarez case if you use a phrase then you're guilty full stop, yet the PFA use context and intention as a defence when a black comedian uses the n word at the PFA dinner. Going to lock this as it's ended up way off the original offence of biting,