Author Topic: Luis Alberto Suárez Díaz - 17 goals & X assists worth of 'I told you so'  (Read 751892 times)

Offline Durlmints

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2800 on: September 30, 2013, 12:08:55 am »
He's already scored as many as Soldado.
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Offline Zoomers

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2801 on: September 30, 2013, 12:26:55 am »
He's already scored as many as Soldado.

And none of Suarez's goals were from penalties :D.
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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2802 on: September 30, 2013, 12:38:34 am »
The question about Luis is whether when he is in the team, he helps make the team more than the sum of his parts. I think he probably doesn't - and I could console myself with that if he leaves. We could end up a better team investing the money from his sale wisely. But, and it is an absolutely fucking enormous but, he does things with a football that no sane person would attempt let alone pull off. Put simply he is a joy to watch. A team with him in, is just so much more enjoyable. It may not be the most effective, but our lives as fans would be poorer without him in red / some shitty tribal pattern.

Offline Lustig

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2803 on: September 30, 2013, 12:42:51 am »
He's also rusty and you can see it with his close control and with some of his moves throughout the game yet he still bags two with his brilliant movement.



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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2804 on: September 30, 2013, 12:47:13 am »


He's a fantastic footballer, one of the best I've ever seen wear a red shirt and those that want him gone are clueless beyond belief.
Spot on. I don't know how long Suarez will stay but EVERY other club in the premier league would want him in their squad. If we make the CL next season I hope he stays-if we don't then he will deffo be gone and should be with our best wishes as long as he puts 100% in his season (it's not in his nature not to).
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Offline BazC

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2805 on: September 30, 2013, 12:57:14 am »
The question about Luis is whether when he is in the team, he helps make the team more than the sum of his parts. I think he probably doesn't - and I could console myself with that if he leaves. We could end up a better team investing the money from his sale wisely. But, and it is an absolutely fucking enormous but, he does things with a football that no sane person would attempt let alone pull off. Put simply he is a joy to watch. A team with him in, is just so much more enjoyable. It may not be the most effective, but our lives as fans would be poorer without him in red / some shitty tribal pattern.

I think he does make the team better. Even if it's because of his reputation - you watch the way defenders treat him, and the amount of space it/he creates. He does give away the ball, but then Sturridge will do that as well. But you can see just how good they can potentially be together - with Coutinho supporting them and Moses in there as well, I think we could have one of the top 2-3 attacks in the league.

We may have won more games without Suarez, but as I keep pointing out, it's a bit silly to assume there's causality there. We weren't playing well and winning because Suarez was out, we were playing well and winning because Sturridge and Coutinho came in and bossed defences as much as Suarez did. Rodgers needs to get all 3 working well together over the coming months, and we'll be well set.

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Offline juan1001

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2806 on: September 30, 2013, 01:01:35 am »

You can see how the level of the team just suffers immensely with his presence.

Offline krizzobizzle

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2807 on: September 30, 2013, 01:03:21 am »
Love the drunken dribbling bastard!

But seriously. For all his moral shortcomings he's an inspiration as a footballer and we should just kick back and try and enjoy the one World Class player we have whilst he's here. If theres one player in this league defenders would hate to play against, it has to be him.

He never stops chasing lost causes, super aggressive with the ball, puts players in knots, and his strength is also one attribute that gets very little credit.


Offline shawnk

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2808 on: September 30, 2013, 01:26:27 am »
Great to see him scoring again. It would only raise his price when we put him on the market in January. I know that some people would disagree, but we are definitely a better team without him, and imagine what we could do with all that money in January.

If we spent it wisely meaning getting the right player with the right qualities to improve the team. How often have we done that in the past years with the exceptions of our transfer dealing this year's January?

Again, what a beast. If you look at the highlight prepared by Mostar, you can see there's always at least 2 defenders closing him down when he has the ball and at one point 3 defenders closing him down when he at the corner flag. This also gives more opening other other forward more space and thus improve our attacks in other department. Some people just don't see this.

Offline shawnk

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2809 on: September 30, 2013, 01:27:20 am »
We did appear to be a better team without him, but this perhaps was related to a different system being utilized last year.  Perhaps the 3-5-2 is better suited to the two of them, or maybe its clear what role we want from Sturridge, whereas last season the idea may have been to utilize Sturridge in the way Suarez appears to have been instructed to play currently.  Also, we definitely have a stronger defense than last year and this certainly will help.  Personally, I was thinking along similar lines but both today and even the United match, he appears better integrated into the team play than last year. 

Thinking about it a bit more, one of the reasons why people might think - myself previously included - we'd be better off without him is related to his tendency to go solo, but that tendency of his last year (even during the second half when we had Sturridge and Coutinho) may have been related to him being our only true world class attacking weapon.  Recall that he was lining up with Sterling and Suso alongside of him - that would likely exaggerate his propensity to take teams on by himself and try outrageous pieces of skill where a pass would be better.

Which game?

Offline shawnk

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2810 on: September 30, 2013, 01:30:45 am »
This lad is so good, if he stays fit I'm confident we can get 4th. Our squad isn't quite good enough but this is definitely the year to get it done - so glad we kept hold of him even if its just for this season, but hopefully longer.

Agree not because of his quality but because of the quality of the team has now improved compared to last season. Remember he helped the team by scoring 30 goals last season, it still no where near top 4 position why? Other department in the team is just not strong enough. With Sturridge, Coutinho, Moses and others in since January, I see a lot of improvements in the team already. Top 4 is highly possible now.

Offline Les Willis

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2811 on: September 30, 2013, 01:33:52 am »
I'm one of his biggest critics, for the stuff that has gone on. However, he is a top class player and I can't deny that we'd miss him on the field if he left. He now seems focussed enough, so let's hope he gets us a Champs League spot and we'll see where we are with him next year. No more fuck ups though.

Offline Mykez

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2812 on: September 30, 2013, 01:54:54 am »
I don't understand how some of these "fans" can complain about not having CL football and bitching when we don't sign a top talent, and when we have one of the best players in the world playing for us, they fail to appreciate his talent and want him gone. Unbelievable.

Offline juan1001

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2813 on: September 30, 2013, 02:18:31 am »
I don't understand how some of these "fans" can complain about not having CL football and bitching when we don't sign a top talent, and when we have one of the best players in the world playing for us, they fail to appreciate his talent and want him gone. Unbelievable.
But he hurt their feelings.

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2814 on: September 30, 2013, 02:32:21 am »
So he scored 2 and just missed 4 more on that little clip up there, plus some nearly moves you know will only take a game or two to click back in. Him and Sturridge simply toyed with the defence on both his goals, in the classic two man style.

Bing. Bang. Boom.

Nice.
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Offline haste

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2815 on: September 30, 2013, 03:20:29 am »
Just watched the mostar vid.  Incredible how well he and Sturridge connect.  Long may it continue. 

Get Coutinho back in the mix and my do we have some trouble makers.

Offline Alonso_The_Assassin

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2816 on: September 30, 2013, 04:00:06 am »
Some of the comments on here baffle me. I personally don't give a fuck what he's done. In the end he stayed and for that he has my backing as a Liverpool player. When he plays we are a mile better and in fact probably the best counter attacking team in the country. We probably would've scraped a draw today had he not been on the pitch; do you think anyone else would've been in that position on his first goal?

Be thankful he's still our player and with him we're a far better chance of making the CL. If we do manage to qualify, the who knows? He may well just stay put.

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2817 on: September 30, 2013, 04:18:38 am »
That's correlation though, not causation. As has been repeatedly stated. It is in no way explanitory to our improvement. Unless you're one of those people that believe that the increase in girls being named 'Anne' is the reason why gun-related deaths in the US are on the rise.

What a ridiculous analogy.  If the claim that we are a better team with Suarez is true, then his return should improve us in some way. You are claiming causation just by saying that Suarez causes us to be a better team. Without Suarez, we know that we are capable of going on runs of 7-2-1. So now, tell me, how does he improve on that? Clearly, e hasn't really improved our level of performance because we can't keep the ball for shit as evidenced by the last 2 games and our midfield is still a shambles. He hasn't improved our results yet (it's only 2 games though). So we will have to wait to see what affect Suarez has on Liverpool over the next 8 games.

Quote
Saying our form was 7-2-1 without Suarez is such a selective figure. Just as easily is saying our form since Coutinho's starting debut until his injury has been 11-5-1 is related to the fact that we signed a Brazilian player who peaked during the summer months, because Brazilians play better in warm weather. Coutinho has only lost 1 game he started, that was against Southampton, where he scored, was becasue that day Suarez played. Using this selective example I could state taht Liverpool are more likely to lose when Suarez plays. I could also use the surrounding games to give a better result over how we play. 5-0 Swansea; Suarez plays. 4-0 Wigan; Suarez plays. 3-2 Tottenham; Suarez plays. Aston Villa 2-1; Suarez plays. That's 4 wins in 5 games with Suarez. How about that? He's some player. 15 goals scored, 6 conceded and 12 points from 5 games. He would make any team better!

You are selectively using some games for your sample. The more games for your sample, the better. So why are you ignoring the loss to Southampton and then the 3 consecutive draws after that. I am using every game that I can without Suarez as my sample. As I said, if the claim is that Suarez makes us better, then you are going to have to show that Suarez's inclusion leads to us picking up more points than when he is not playing and he is replaced by someone else.

The bottom line is that we don't miss him from a results standpoint when he is not playing so you have to question just how important he really is. If he was sold in his summer, I have no reason to believe that we wouldn't continue picking up points at a similar rate to what he have ben doing since he has been gone. By the same token, you can take a look just how much we missed Lucas from a results standpoint, and just how much he improved us amongst his return to show his importance. But for Suarez, the same can't be said about missing him, and weather he improves us, remains to be seen.

Offline KirkVanHouten

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2818 on: September 30, 2013, 05:25:43 am »
I was cheering both his goals. I don't give a fuck what he did in the summer, he's here now and while he's still here I'm going to enjoy it. He and Coutinho are the only two players we have that consistently beat a man with skill, without them we become extremely predictable.

I'm happy we aren't solely reliant on Sturridge for goals now, we're not completely fucked if Sturridge gets injured.


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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2819 on: September 30, 2013, 05:44:46 am »
I don't understand how some of these "fans" can complain about not having CL football and bitching when we don't sign a top talent, and when we have one of the best players in the world playing for us, they fail to appreciate his talent and want him gone. Unbelievable.


 ::)

Hardly anyone has said they want him gone.

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2820 on: September 30, 2013, 06:08:18 am »
But he hurt their feelings.

Some of us can be pissed off with how he behaved in the summer without wanting him gone you know.


I just want us to use him for his talent now and then sell him when it best for the club not when it's best for him.

Offline Melbred

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2821 on: September 30, 2013, 06:16:58 am »
Does he improve the team? Yes.

So whether you love him or hate him because of what he's said and done off the pitch, the only thing you should do is appreciate what he offers us on the pitch.

He'll be gone soon enough.

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2822 on: September 30, 2013, 07:40:57 am »
He is head and shoulders the best player we have.

Anyone that hasn't accepted him back into the team yet is obviously still having sleepless nights over the girl that left them when they were 15.

Sentiment in football died a long time ago, I just want us to win and to do that we need to hang on to the best players. 

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2823 on: September 30, 2013, 08:35:45 am »
What a ridiculous analogy.  If the claim that we are a better team with Suarez is true, then his return should improve us in some way. You are claiming causation just by saying that Suarez causes us to be a better team. Without Suarez, we know that we are capable of going on runs of 7-2-1. So now, tell me, how does he improve on that? Clearly, e hasn't really improved our level of performance because we can't keep the ball for shit as evidenced by the last 2 games and our midfield is still a shambles. He hasn't improved our results yet (it's only 2 games though). So we will have to wait to see what affect Suarez has on Liverpool over the next 8 games.

You are selectively using some games for your sample. The more games for your sample, the better. So why are you ignoring the loss to Southampton and then the 3 consecutive draws after that. I am using every game that I can without Suarez as my sample. As I said, if the claim is that Suarez makes us better, then you are going to have to show that Suarez's inclusion leads to us picking up more points than when he is not playing and he is replaced by someone else.

The bottom line is that we don't miss him from a results standpoint when he is not playing so you have to question just how important he really is. If he was sold in his summer, I have no reason to believe that we wouldn't continue picking up points at a similar rate to what he have ben doing since he has been gone. By the same token, you can take a look just how much we missed Lucas from a results standpoint, and just how much he improved us amongst his return to show his importance. But for Suarez, the same can't be said about missing him, and weather he improves us, remains to be seen.

Fantastic post I've thought this for awhile now.

The problem with the analysis is however (playing Devil's Advocate) that in between the run of 7-2-1 we've lost key, important first team players over the transfer window (Downing) and to injury (Johnson, Coutinho). All three are creative forces that arguably allowed us to play without Suarez because the wings, especially on the right, were creating prolific chances that allowed for Sturridge to shine.

Now without those players the stats comparison is muted, I feel. If the formations and personnel were the same (433 instead of a modified 352 because Aspas / Sterling just won't work on the right of a 433) then the analysis would be justifiable.

Not saying I disagree, I'm firmly on the fence as to whether Suarez makes us a better team when a larger sample size is available. I don't think he's all that, he has flaws in his game that are readily apparent and imo like another poster said, put him firmly in the tier below the highest bracket of players, i.e very good but not one of the greats. The stats are compelling as well. Remember last season, even before he was bitten, the stats were roughly win 86% of games without him and only 36% with him. Many people on here chalked it up to it being because it was Bro-dgers' first season, early game fixture difficulty, etcetcetc. Well, the stats since he was banned roughly back up the 86% - won 7 drawn 2 lost 1. The stats since he's been back are 50% - won 1 lost 1. It'll be interesting to see in 8 games whether it goes down to the 30+ percent that was the norm early last season.
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Offline CoventryYNWA

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2824 on: September 30, 2013, 08:47:13 am »
Still love the guy to bits, he lacks maturity but that's what makes him the player he is.

I am sure that if we get CL this year, he will put pen to paper on a new contract - that's just my opinion.

Offline penga

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2825 on: September 30, 2013, 09:05:26 am »
Very simplistically looking at it, in the past maybe some of the results/performances weren't so good because we relied on him too much to make things happen and tried to pass the ball to him at every opportunity, like sometimes when other midfielders shift the responsibility and don't play their whole natural game when playing alongside Gerrard. Hopefully now with Sturridge in the team and showing his stuff this isn't the case. Sunderland game was a good starting point, Suarez didnt have to be picked out as much in build up play and ended up with 2 tap in goals using clever movement.

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2826 on: September 30, 2013, 09:39:51 am »
We are currently 1-0-1 with Suarez as opposed to 7-2-1 without him. So how has he improved our form yet? He helped us win 1 match, and we lost the other match that he played. Form is measured over more than one or two games you know.

Come back to me in 8 games time and we will see if he has improved our form and if LFC pick up more points upon his return than when he wasn't playing.

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2827 on: September 30, 2013, 09:42:19 am »
Fantastic post I've thought this for awhile now.

The problem with the analysis is however (playing Devil's Advocate) that in between the run of 7-2-1 we've lost key, important first team players over the transfer window (Downing) and to injury (Johnson, Coutinho). All three are creative forces that arguably allowed us to play without Suarez because the wings, especially on the right, were creating prolific chances that allowed for Sturridge to shine.

Now without those players the stats comparison is muted, I feel. If the formations and personnel were the same (433 instead of a modified 352 because Aspas / Sterling just won't work on the right of a 433) then the analysis would be justifiable.

Not saying I disagree, I'm firmly on the fence as to whether Suarez makes us a better team when a larger sample size is available. I don't think he's all that, he has flaws in his game that are readily apparent and imo like another poster said, put him firmly in the tier below the highest bracket of players, i.e very good but not one of the greats. The stats are compelling as well. Remember last season, even before he was bitten, the stats were roughly win 86% of games without him and only 36% with him. Many people on here chalked it up to it being because it was Bro-dgers' first season, early game fixture difficulty, etcetcetc. Well, the stats since he was banned roughly back up the 86% - won 7 drawn 2 lost 1. The stats since he's been back are 50% - won 1 lost 1. It'll be interesting to see in 8 games whether it goes down to the 30+ percent that was the norm early last season.


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Offline DeLeiva

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2828 on: September 30, 2013, 09:45:23 am »
It's scary to think that it's only his 2nd game back and he can pull that type of performance out the top draw.

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2829 on: September 30, 2013, 10:02:31 am »

fuck me...there's two of em

He has Fool in his username for a reason....

Offline whtwht

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2830 on: September 30, 2013, 10:15:16 am »
It's scary to think that it's only his 2nd game back and he can pull that type of performance out the top draw.


Exactly . Frankly, im more worried about our midfield , its not quite clicking there  and we lack goals from there.

He'll win the league in the next 3 years. Quote me on that.
Quote me on this, but come next season he'll be great for us. Just needs to remove the walking headless chicken next to him

Offline Kelvinlfc

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2831 on: September 30, 2013, 10:26:44 am »
fuck me...there's two of em

Hahahaha I'm thinking this, he's staying at least till next Summer so I don't get why they are wasting there time - it's like not like BR's going to come on RAWK and be like fuck me this guy talks loads of sense I'll bench our best player

Offline Kop10

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2832 on: September 30, 2013, 11:06:32 am »
Some of us can be pissed off with how he behaved in the summer without wanting him gone you know.


I just want us to use him for his talent now and then sell him when it best for the club not when it's best for him.

Every single word of this is spot on.
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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2833 on: September 30, 2013, 11:58:29 am »
Best player in the league.

Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2834 on: September 30, 2013, 11:59:58 am »

Offline RedMichelFerri

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2835 on: September 30, 2013, 01:58:57 pm »
He might do silly things but put him on pitch and he delivers. On pitch, he looks like kid in candy shop. So so much passion for the game. Should enjoy him while he is here but at any cost we shouldn't sell him to any EPL club.

Madrid are stupid to throw that Money at bale when they could have easily got this guy.
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Offline Il Capitano

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2836 on: September 30, 2013, 02:00:51 pm »
Madrid are stupid to throw that Money at bale when they could have easily got this guy.

Yup.

Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2837 on: September 30, 2013, 02:02:37 pm »
Difference between yesterday and let's say the Swansea match was Suarez.  Swansea did well in our match but they conceded a lot of space at the back and we had some opportunities.  You imagine Suarez in that inside left position that Aspas found himself in and there is damage.  So he'll keep defences honest.

Offline soxfan

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2838 on: September 30, 2013, 02:22:45 pm »
I just want us to use him for his talent now and then sell him when it best for the club not when it's best for him.
I agree. He's a world class talent but one who doesn't want to be here. He doesn't give a flying fuck about LFC or any supporter praising him in this thread. Use him for his amazing goals and creativity and sell him to the highest non-English bidder when the time is right for Liverpool.

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #2839 on: September 30, 2013, 02:24:35 pm »
He might do silly things but put him on pitch and he delivers. On pitch, he looks like kid in candy shop. So so much passion for the game. Should enjoy him while he is here but at any cost we shouldn't sell him to any EPL club.

Madrid are stupid to throw that Money at bale when they could have easily got this guy.

Madrid were stupid because Arturo Vidal is the player they were crying out, little to do with Suarez
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