Topic: Southampton Round Table

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Alright folks lets start the discussion with an overview before we get into the minutiae of the performance.  It seems to me that since Sturridge and Coutinho arrived Rodgers has been struggling to quite find that balance between the attacking brio that they have helped to add and getting the necessary midfield control that can provide the possession they need to thrive.


How would you tweak the current line up to improve that situation?

Who would you buy in the summer to address that?

[BreakfastPercy]

Being a Liverpool fan is like dating a supermodel with a violent ex-boyfriend. It's like a watching the Aurora Borealis with Craig Burley. It's like making love to Charlotte Jackson whilst staring into the dead eyes of Chris Coleman.

Much like José Enrique's barber, we barely have time to catch our breath and admire our handiwork before we're back to square one, a baffling thicket of ineptitude needing more time and bigger shears. Fuck! Fuckety! Fuck! If there was one refreshing lilt to the otherwise familiar drone of disappointment it was that this time our manager cost us the game. Playing a two man midfield minus your regular defensive midfielder, and featuring our most uncomfortable pairing, was always a bad start. I expect there will be a lot of debate over Allen versus Henderson, but personally I say it's a redundant point, because without a third man in middle we were always going to struggle. Not why Allen instead of Henderson, but why not both?

Is it arrogance? Laziness? I can't figure out why we would go 4-2-4 away from home. Long gone are the days even Ferguson would go two up front away from home. Is the two man midifeld a thing any more? Does it exist? Did it ever exist? Maybe it's listed as a hobby on somebody's MySpace page from 2004. Maybe it's a cautionary tale about the transience of innocence. Maybe it's a forgotten bird, its plumage a sickening brown and it's beak lined with fat little humanoid teeth. Maybe it's the Werthers omlette Roy Hodgson burns as he leers at Tim Lovejoy on 'Sunday Brunch'. Maybe it's a towel-clad Igor Biscan manouvering his newborn from arm to arm as he bashfully signs for whatever it is she's bought this time. Maybe it's the 'ding!' Joey Barton's head makes as you fling pennies at it. But I digress...

The fact is I think that one key tactical error had us 2-0 down and near enough beat before we ever got going. I'm happy with the plan, and I'm happy with the direction, but yesterday was schoolboy. It was doubly schoolboy given that we spent most of this week cashing in our 'Get Out of Jail Free' card for £200 and three points against Spurs. Joe Allen's fucked anyway, he only seems to get picked out of position or in games where the growing mob of 'Hendo vs Allen'ers get handed a big box of nepotism ammo.

Glen Johnson's had a temporary lobotomy, which meant our defence averaged point five of a brain yesterday. Skrtel is one Enrique-style overnight hair renaissance from dispelling the last remaining whiff of him being at all intimidating. I miss Pepe a great deal, as I have done for most of the season (especially when he's been playing). Sturridge was on N'Gog's leftover goal valium. Ibe on the bench to me again hints at not preparing for the game with due respect and consideration. We played like a team expecting sixty-minute party subs, but not like one that would ever get to do them.

That's about us done in terms of league ambitions, so here's hoping we continue to build and yesterday was just one of those days. Also there's much worse teams than Southampton that could stay up, and they have yet another Spain-educated manager who seems to have a bit more than your Alan Pardew, so I could begrudge them their three points a lot more. Pah it's the hope that gets you. Kill the hope with fire.

P.S. Is it a wig or is he just that damn virile?

P.P.S. Are bizarre team selections worth it simply to see Twitter's collective eggy face? #ITK

[Harinder]

So in the second half before they get the third goal there was a large shout from the bench

"GET THE SECOND BALL"

We didn't get the first one for a very long time in the first half. We could say therefore that the second half was an improvement on that then 

The issue is the spine. We've had this issue for ages. To give the flair and strength to go forward we need players with a certain steel slap bang in the middle of the pitch. That isn't a steel forged like Superman. It's more like Sir Ranulph Fiennes mentality steel we're looking at here. All players are capable of showing it when the chips are down (as per Zenit match at home) but it's the week in week out, day after day ones that we need.

Get them in and see issues disappear quicker than a piff paff puff from the Great Suprendo!

Summer procurement is no longer 2 or 3. It's 4 at least. IF a right back can be promoted from the youth it cannot come any sooner. Glen needs serious competition to allow for mental fortitude. Ditto for centre back. Buy the most commanding one you can find.

Then get another. One that can be a DM too if your counting the pennies.

It's the weakness mentally, of fans too, that gets at my billy goats gruff the most... and there's a lot of that 

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I feel like Dimblebob on Questiontime

[Harinder]

I feel like Dimblebob on Questiontime

The way the Beeb has been going it will soon come out that he was indeed feeling you back in 1987.

[Hinesy]

The midfield was overloaded and with Johnson looking tired again, and Gerrard doing less running, probably because he doesn't feel able with only Allen there, and Couthino unused to playing the full speed of the PL we were always going to get hit at some point.

It reminded me of the Oldham game. A match we probably thought we'll easily control but roughhousing from a big centre forward (needed Carra' wisdom here) and a growing belief with nothing to lose meant Southampton had no reason to worry in a lot of ways. That's what happened at Oldham and we got punished for it.

There were a few bad reffin' decisions, but as I noted elsewhere, the match could've been 4-4 at half time.

I think we need to start phasing in someone to properly replace Gerrard. I think we need to have another 'Lucas' type person for when he can't play and I think Skrtel looks a shadow of his former terrifying self.

Hmmm... (Ps I did worry about this result in the preview....)

[Azi]

I think we need to start phasing in someone to properly replace Gerrard. I think we need to have another 'Lucas' type person for when he can't play and I think Skrtel looks a shadow of his former terrifying self.

somewhere in Liverpool Andy@allerton just got a hard on

Anyway i think even before the match kicked off most had a doubt if if our midfield two so to speak could handle Southampton's 5 and quickly it came evident we couldn't,i think theirs been plenty of games where we've came of the pitch and thought and how the fuck did we lose we battered them but yesterday at full time i don't think anyone could say they didn't deserve the three points we were poor, for every chance we had saints had twice as many better chances,

what i want to know is what Henderson has done or doesn't bring that Allen does when half injured, or to thif tat fact shelvey or suso or whoever for that fact if the injury is that bad why not get the surgery done asap rather than letting him play with it, say he was to be in a collision or tackled from the side and landed on the shoulder is that not going to make it worse am no medical marvel but surely that risk isn't worth playing him ?

[Vulmea]

the FA cup draw making 5th the target was a blow

then we had 'we are chasing 4th' - every time its been mentioned we've crumbled like a sack of shit

Then Everton won instead of rolling over and the bad feeling grew 

and then a knife to the heart of hope - the team sheet........no Pepe, no Carra, no Lucas, no midfield........we'd discussed all week three of our weaknesses  and here we deliberately exposed them - we'd discussed the ineffectiveness of the formation and yet here it was again - well we switched it a bit and made it even less effective but the idea  was the same -

 I thought we'd turned a corner and started playing one game at a time but this one stank of playing next season instead of this, as much of the season has to be honest.

If it was a message to FSG that we have a weak squad then it worked gloriously but it also served a viscious blow to any hope we have left

one game at a time - please - do it - dont just pay lip service to the bleedin words - doesn't matter who you are playing or where,  the focus has to be winning that game - but we haven't had that philosophy all season except in the last few weeks where we actually needed to make an effort or drift into the lower half of the table

assuming BR believed we could win yesterday can anyone explain how it was supposed to work?

I want to see BR learning from his mistakes not repeating them and this seemed to be one that just got away - disapointing - at least he acknowledged it in the post match

I dont buy the two steps forward one step back thing because each of our two steps seems to be in an entirely different direction to the previous two and its only really going to be of benefit if we learn from it - our ball retention under pressure is still poor, our defence through the centre remains poor, our defending from set pieces poor - you could argue our progress can almost exclusively be placed against individual performances and players rather than any systemic progress

At 2 -1 I thought we actually showed we had the character to come back but that character is disasterously undermined by our defending - another goal straight through the centre - another game when we showed we can't retain the ball when pressed - if BR is learning exactly what is it he's learning about?

in terms of the OP I'm hoping he's going with a front 3 - Suarez, Sturridge and Coutinho - with three behind Lucas, Henderson and Gerrard/Allen - one of those three will need to play like two men - thats Henderson for me - unfortunately it doesn't look like it is for BR - the concern would be there are not enough goals from midfield  (you can see why BR wanted Sigursson not Henderson) but with that front three and dominating the ball goals shouldn't be the issue - then a back four that is firstly capable of looking after itself - we certainly dont  have that at the moment and secondly capable of helping out elsewhere - bizarrely we do have that

So for me the key role is at centre half - if we can make that a strength rather than a weakness it changes everything - the worry is that BR's style of play is actually causing the weakness rather than the individual talents of the players - does the right player change that, we have to hope so I guess

I'd like to be contrary and suggest we are progressing , its just a blip but the weight of disapointment means its too hard

[Hinesy]

A while back at the start of the season it was one step forward, two back. Now it's two forward, one back which is progress.

[CHOPPER]

A while back at the start of the season it was one step forward, two back. Now it's two forward, one back which is progress.

Quote from: Walshy® on Yesterday at 09:26:38 PM

2 steps forward and 1 step back.

Moi

 

   2 steps forward and 1 step back.

Chill blood clat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAUcTGeqvOw

The road to righteousness is a narrow one.

Are you a comershalast!?

Ital roundtable it!


We never got going and always looked second best bar a few minutes here and there, take it on the chin and move on. Can't really see the fat getting chewed and enlightening me any more than that to be quite Frank Worthington.

[Prof]

The main problem is we lack coordination and compactness in our defensive game. We sometimes don't defend as a unit. Our problem is that when we play 4-2-3-1, there are gaps left around Allen and Gerrard.  There was a lot of criticism yesterday of playing a 'two-man midfield' because Southampton kept using the using the space between the lines and getting numerical superiority in that area. In my opinion, it was actually becausewe weren't compact enough or coordinated enough.

Take this for example:



Southampton take a short free kick, Sturridge and Suarez go to pressure. Sturridge goes to block off the square pass and so Suarez makes his way to the free midfielder in the middle of the picture



Two things to notice about this next picture above is that a) Gerrard is yards off Lallana receiving the pass. This can't happen. Either Gerrard is too far away or Sturridge shouldn't have pressured the defender. You have to keep compact whatever the tactics.

Second of all, Downing let's the full back at the bottom of the picture go. One of our problems sometimes is that there is too much lateral space around the two holding players because we try and retain our 4-2-3-1 shape off the ball instead of defending into two lines of four. This isn't necessarily wrong, sometimes you make trade offs in certain areas. But we can struggle because of the spaces left to cover.



This is where the major problem develops. Gerrard too far away from Lallana on the ball means that he can get on the half turn and play the pass inside to Schneiderlin. This shouldn't necessarily have been a problem but as Lallana recieves the ball, Suarez makes a movement to block the switch back to the centre back on the top right of the picture. Effectively Gerrard's been left 1v2 and was already at a disadvantage because of how far away he was in the previous shot.



Again the lack of coordination in the pressing above is poor. Allen is far too far away from Gerrard to assist in the pressure on the ball, there's no compactness in defence. Schneiderlin now has a free run through midfield because of the lack of compactness and coordination.



Then as the ball is played to the left, their left back moving up the pitch untracked has made a run forward momentarily leaving a 2v1 situation against Glen Johnson. This lack of compactness emphasised one of the main problems the team had yesterday. Southampton were using Lambert to create depth and open up space for their midfielders to attack centrally between the lines. When you're not compact or coordinated in defence and also can't control the ball possession either, you're clearly going to struggle. And we did.

This is a great post by Lanky Guy in the post match thread.

Part of the problem is our seeming inability to recognise when to slow the game down.  Our main defensive approach is to retain possession, but we get into a habit of trying to attack when we get the ball back through direct balls.  This is a useful strategy to have available, as their defence will be unbalanced, but we do it too much and from the wrong positions, it means we give the ball away.

Sometimes, we need to build up a spell of possession, just to take the sting out.

[Cocomin]

Horrible performance i don't think anybody got pass marks except maybe Jose who at least looked like he could be arsed.

Brendan needs to learn from his mistakes playing 2 in midfield without a holding midfielder is crazy we got found out by Oldham and we got found out again yesterday , we were lucky we didn't ship 5 or 6 it was that bad there's not another manager at a top level club that would try that tactics away in the EPL.

The only positive that came out of yesterday was that young Jordan Ibe made the bench well in lad you've not made it yet but you've a great chance just keep grounded and work hard.

[scimitarsam]

Well there's another game chalked up on the "bump in the road" board then.

It seems BR seriously underestimated Poch and the Southampton team. To be honest, I think it's been coming. Both the Wigan and Spurs games will have been excellent case studies for Poch. Despite the scoreline Wigan had plenty of chances at the DW that weren't taken or Pepe rescued us out of...Pepe wasn't playing yesterday and I'm sure Poch knew that we'd gift them chances no matter how we set ourselves up. Add to that he knows our new Brazilian wonderkid inside out and did an excellent job of setting his team up to negate that threat down the left.

The Spurs game was a perfect demonstration of our 2 formations; 2 or 3 in midfield. Watching Spurs over-run us in the first half at Anfield must have pricked up some ears in Southampton..."I'll have some of that."

Not only did BR choose the lesser of the 2 formations for an away game against a good and improving team, he choose the weakest version of the 2-in-the-middle. Hindsight is 20/20 and if Lucas was a risk due to an issue in the warm up then as the OP says why not go for Stevie, Hendo and Allen in midfield? Allen and Stevie alone has been a disaster eariler in the season so I'm not sure why BR thought that might change.

Add the manager's error of judgement to the poor performances of certain individuals (described in other's posts above) and there was only ever one winner. In the league we have a poor history of capitalising on other team's situations/results and this trend continues. The blue's are now in front of us again, Arsenal won and the time of writing Chelsea are 2-0 against West Ham.

I'm sure our general trend is still a line sloping gradually upward, its just these trip-ups bring us back down to earth with a bump each and every time. This one's on BR for me, I'm sure the players know this also so the question is; "What does that do for their confidence going forward?"

[Guz-kop]

Part of the problem is our seeming inability to recognise when to slow the game down.  Our main defensive approach is to retain possession, but we get into a habit of trying to attack when we get the ball back through direct balls.  This is a useful strategy to have available, as their defence will be unbalanced, but we do it too much and from the wrong positions, it means we give the ball away.

This is what really annoyed me yesterday. I thought our use of the ball was very poor, sometimes lacked patience and resulted in losing the ball too quickly. Sturridge's introduction into the side has added a huge amount of pace into our attack but we're becoming more and more direct since January. There's too much of a "get the ball to Suarez and Sturridge asap" mentality over the last few weeks. It has been evident at Wigan 2nd half, Spurs and yesterday. Of course 2 of those games resulted in a win so can't be too critical. However we look a much better side when we move the ball as a unit (even if it is slowly) then looking for the early ping too early.

I have a lot of sympathy with Rodgers yesterday because the 4 attackers are all in good form (well Sturridge is still coming back from injury) and none of them really deserve to get dropped. However, Downing and Sturridge didn't work hard enough and that's a killer. No matter how many players you have in the centre of the park if you're up against 11 high energy players you can't carry 2 like that, especially when our full backs are getting run at. The same thing happened at Old Trafford, neither Sterling or Downing worked hard enough to press from the front and the game passed them by and the 3 in midfield actually had a really tough job because they were being stretched wide as well as having to track players drifting through them.

Coutinho worked really hard yesterday but had his first taste of a really hard working team making things difficult for him. That's not really anyone's fault and will be a great learning experience. Even if you take one of those four attacking players out of the side and bring in Henderson you're still left with 2/3 of your attacking not using the ball well enough and not being switched on enough defensively. It means our full backs are still exposed and our midfield three still being stretched. It's why, as much as I like the lad, I just don't fall for this argument that another body in midfield would've solved all of our problems yesterday. It's just never that simple and when you play that poorly it's a team issue not 1-2 individuals.

I really don't know how to answer the 2 opening questions but what I will say is we're trying to find balance in our team and there is no way in hell I expected us to have found that by now. We started the season with a paper thin squad, added to it with 2 really good attacking players who have forced their way into a starting position. It's meant we've lost a little balance but if Rodgers had left coutinho on the bench yesterday and we'd still lost and got over run with 3 in midfield (hardly a impossible situation) he would've received stick for making things too complicated, not playing to our strengths and benching in form players.

[John C]

Firstly it has to be acknowledged how good Southampton played, they were as good as I ever recall them play football. They pressed us very high, didn’t give us time on the ball and did their supporters proud.

Southampton were so high on occasions it got to the point when we were trying to retain possession by constantly passing the ball backwards which wasn’t the answer. We should have sharpened and quickened our passing to move forward as they closed us down. It may have created a higher risk of giving the ball away but in the end they won the midfield battle in the first half and much throughout the second because we couldn’t out-pass them.

OK, had we scored in the first 10 mins of the second half then it was game on with victory possible if not likely. But that's football and you have to analyse the game holistically.

Coming out of a good run of form and losing away doesn’t make us a bad side, but when you’ve used all your attacking options in plan A, plan B may only bolster your midfield as you deplete your attack with a potential sub. And it did need bolstering with an aging SG and a questionable Joe Allen occupying those places without serious assistance.

In playing that formation was BR trying to counter PochettinoI? If so, he got it wrong unfortunately because although there were defensive errors (again), our MF was inadequate to cope.

Henderson’s best games for us have been playing coming in to help the MF from the left. That would have been a better option and leaving either Coutinho or Downing on the bench as an attacking back-up

Sturridge should have been subbed after an hour, his positioning in the wall and overall contribution was more than disappointing. Indeed it was a disappointing display overall, particularly across the defence.

I don’t know what the stats are but Downing rarely touched the ball in the first half.

Its not a car-crash, because in terms of playing personnel not a lot has changed for me since August – we still need a CB, we still need a CM and we probably need an attacking right-sided player. I’m sure many will call for at least 1 FB also.

Fix at least 2 of those positions, combined with the development of our football which on the whole has undeniably improved this year, and we are on the right track. No disrespect to BR, who I support 100%, but with a few harsh lessons under his belt now, he should enter next season more prepared & matured.

[Flaccid Bobby Fowler]

The amount of times opposing players can get in behind our center mid, get into the hole, in an around the outside of the 18, the danger zone, the Zola zone, whatever you want to call it, the amount of times it happens and with such relative ease is extremely worrying.

Away from home we need more in midfield, its as obvious as the nose on Brendan's face. Can't understand the decision to play 2up top yesterday. Spurs bossed us at home and we got lucky and I have no idea why Lucas was benched. If Allen needs an op then send him off and get it done cause he's been shite for a while now.

From 15 mins in yesterday you could see what the problem was, not sure how Rodgers couldn't? I'd just like to say I'm a big Rodgers fan, yesterday though was his fault and his alone.

[Cocomin]

This is what really annoyed me yesterday. I thought our use of the ball was very poor, sometimes lacked patience and resulted in losing the ball too quickly. Sturridge's introduction into the side has added a huge amount of pace into our attack but we're becoming more and more direct since January. There's too much of a "get the ball to Suarez and Sturridge asap" mentality over the last few weeks. It has been evident at Wigan 2nd half, Spurs and yesterday. Of course 2 of those games resulted in a win so can't be too critical. However we look a much better side when we move the ball as a unit (even if it is slowly) then looking for the early ping too early.

I have a lot of sympathy with Rodgers yesterday because the 4 attackers are all in good form (well Sturridge is still coming back from injury) and none of them really deserve to get dropped. However, Downing and Sturridge didn't work hard enough and that's a killer. No matter how many players you have in the centre of the park if you're up against 11 high energy players you can't carry 2 like that, especially when our full backs are getting run at. The same thing happened at Old Trafford, neither Sterling or Downing worked hard enough to press from the front and the game passed them by and the 3 in midfield actually had a really tough job because they were being stretched wide as well as having to track players drifting through them.

Coutinho worked really hard yesterday but had his first taste of a really hard working team making things difficult for him. That's not really anyone's fault and will be a great learning experience. Even if you take one of those four attacking players out of the side and bring in Henderson you're still left with 2/3 of your attacking not using the ball well enough and not being switched on enough defensively. It means our full backs are still exposed and our midfield three still being stretched. It's why, as much as I like the lad, I just don't fall for this argument that another body in midfield would've solved all of our problems yesterday. It's just never that simple and when you play that poorly it's a team issue not 1-2 individuals.

I really don't know how to answer the 2 opening questions but what I will say is we're trying to find balance in our team and there is no way in hell I expected us to have found that by now. We started the season with a paper thin squad, added to it with 2 really good attacking players who have forced their way into a starting position. It's meant we've lost a little balance but if Rodgers had left coutinho on the bench yesterday and we'd still lost and got over run with 3 in midfield (hardly a impossible situation) he would've received stick for making things too complicated, not playing to our strengths and benching in form players.

The sympathy i have is for the travelling Kop not for Brendan and playing to our strengths is not having a midfield 2 one who was injured and can't tackle for toffee , he made a massive ricket with his tactics and team selection accept and move on.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Simply, we set ourselves up for defeat before we even kicked off. There was no reason to play two wide men to support two strikers.

So gerrard and Allen, two non defensive midfielders are left overcrowded by Southampton's midfield. Then, if we do win the ball back, we have no one to pass it forwards to because our front 4 are way to advanced.

The first goal was a standard screw up by us. I don't think any player on that pitch is effective aerially. Johnson especially and this is the second game in a row where he's been at fault in that regard.Header is won way to easily and its a decent finish by their striker.

Nothing to talk about with the second goal but they could have scored 4 or 5 by that stage. Their aggressive pressing and quick movement meant they just waltzed past our midfield (not difficult) and the defence is then hugely stretched because (for example) Johnson would have to come across to help out and then there's huge space left behind which they can easily move into, when skrtl has to come across then the same thing happens in the middle and we,re all over the place.

The third goal was just embarrassing. How the hell their player is allowed to run from the half way line without being challenged is ridiculous. Lucas and skrtl at fault there. No tactics or anything to discuss, just very poor play.

We upped our game in the second half but we didn't deserve to win. In think the manager has to take a lot of blame for this defeat, personally.

[Mercer]

It just makes you wonder how so many top class international players with so much apparent quality and skill  can so play so badly and void of fight and seemingly effort.

[Twelfth Man]

This is a great post by Lanky Guy in the post match thread.

Part of the problem is our seeming inability to recognise when to slow the game down.  Our main defensive approach is to retain possession, but we get into a habit of trying to attack when we get the ball back through direct balls.  This is a useful strategy to have available, as their defence will be unbalanced, but we do it too much and from the wrong positions, it means we give the ball away.

Sometimes, we need to build up a spell of possession, just to take the sting out.

Downing is virtually a statue in all those stills, only in the final one does he make a half-arsed attempt to track the runner which could have resulted in Johnson being doubled-up, and this happened all game.

"It seems to me that since Sturridge and Coutinho arrived Rodgers has been struggling to quite find that balance between the attacking brio that they have helped to add and getting the necessary midfield control that can provide the possession they need to thrive."

Trying to fit in his Winter transfers has resulted in exactly what you describe. To play both alongside Downing and Luis you need the whole team to be a lot more compact and for everyone to work their socks off in tracking back and getting behind the ball when we don't have it. Yesterday it seemed like the attacking four pulled up deck chairs and sat watching Soton mullering Allen/Gerrard and the defence. Against Spurs we were a touch lucky. Adding Allen in midfield gave us a bit more control. So why try that risky strategy again?

Not sure what the solution is, because it would involve dropping one of Coutinho, Sturridge or even Gerrard (playing one of Allen/Hendo besides Lucas would surely have given us better protection yesterday). The formation and setup can work, as long as the players can be arsed and work hard to track back when in transition, yesterday they looked dazed by Soton's aggressive pressing. And it has happened before against teams that pressurize us in midfield even before Coutinho and Sturridge arrived on the scene.


We need a Souness type player in the summer, who is solid defending and can get forward and attack. Sadly not many 'Renoir with a razor-blade' around.

[Draex]

Our priorty this summer has to be backup to Lucas - someone who can play instead of him and bring what Lucas brings, but also alongside him..

I worry Rodgers cannot see this, as he continues with Allen who clearly cannot play that role and he is killing the lads confidence contiuning down that path.

It was tactical niavity again, why isn't he learning about that very very basic lesson?

[Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word]

It was happening a few times earlier in the season and it happened again yesterday, the side we put out and how we set up put us at a major disadvantage without a ball being kicked. Lucas having an injury and not starting is understandable, but a midfield with just Allen and Gerrard is suicide.
 
It was like water being held in by a sieve, defensively we were over-ran in midfield and we couldn't keep possession either, we had to play three in midfield and we had to have Henderson's energy against a Southampton team that is set up to press and take over the midfield.

It's a tough situation to drop one of Coutinho, Sturridge and Downing when they are playing well but that was a decision that had to made, that wasn't and it cost us.

There's a time to play an offensive 4-2-3-1 and there's a time to play a tighter 4-3-3, Wigan are similiar in their style of possession and pressing to Southampton and we tore them apart home away playing a tight 4-3-3, Arsenal away was one of our best performances with a tight 4-3-3, I thought it was Rodgers' preferred formation too.

It's hard to look past the line-up and formation because all the other failures grew from there. Personally thought we should've played 4-3-3, with Gerrard, Allen and Henderson and dropped Coutinho, who could've been used a fantastic impact sub once Southampton began to tire in the second half.

Looking at individual performances, Johnson looks tired and along with Enrique we need to provide proper, like-for-like back up for him in the summer, Skrtel is seriously worrying me and I'm fully expecting him to be sold in the summer.

It's the hope that kills you and that's what hurt most for me yesterday, any distant hopes of Champions League football were killed and in pathetic fashion too.

[CHOPPER]

Our priorty this summer has to be backup to........

Funny this sort of line, due to the fact that if everyone's opinion was correct, we'd need an entire new team and squad.

Sometimes you just got to make the best of what you have and thats something of a bitter piil I think we will all have to swallow come the start of next season.

[Upinsmoke]

It was a continuation of nativity which we saw in the spurs game but fortunately got away with that time. This time we didn't. We were pressed very aggresively, it made us very deep, the back four and the two in midfield were so deep, compounding that was Jones distribution. Every time we got the ball it was lumped forward because we had no other option in my opinion. Allen and Stevie were caught in catch 22, stay deep but not contribute to the attacking play or support and leave the defense exposed. We not play coutinho just Infront of Stevie and Joe, push sturridge out right and downing left, or Suarez left. It was just left till the damage was done.

What I don't understand is Henderson was excelling in that inside left position, he was basically in two positions at once and gave us much more control in the midfield. Coutinho actually put in a real shift yesterday but it didn't matter about how much effort we put in, we can't win many games playing two midfielders.

[Upinsmoke]

Also what is with the reluctance to haul off a different player one in a while. The same players get subbed all the time.

[wah00ey]

The midfield was overloaded and with Johnson looking tired again, and Gerrard doing less running, probably because he doesn't feel able with only Allen there, and Couthino unused to playing the full speed of the PL we were always going to get hit at some point.

It reminded me of the Oldham game. A match we probably thought we'll easily control but roughhousing from a big centre forward (needed Carra' wisdom here) and a growing belief with nothing to lose meant Southampton had no reason to worry in a lot of ways. That's what happened at Oldham and we got punished for it.

There were a few bad reffin' decisions, but as I noted elsewhere, the match could've been 4-4 at half time.

I think we need to start phasing in someone to properly replace Gerrard. I think we need to have another 'Lucas' type person for when he can't play and I think Skrtel looks a shadow of his former terrifying self.

Hmmm... (Ps I did worry about this result in the preview....)

From where I stood, 4-4 at half time would have really flattered us.  They absolutely tore us a new one in that first half.  We got one back just at the right time before halftime and you felt the second half just might be a little different but there was never really that belief in the fans and, after showing a little for the first 20 minutes in the second half, it became clear that the players didn't have that belief either.

Question - how on earth can a professional look as disinterested as Johnson and Gerrard did at times yesterday - and others?  Don't they want Champions League or Europa next season?  I know the chances of that are slim at best but surely you have to fight to the bitter end for something as important as that.  I just don't get it, they were simply going through the motions for nearly the whole match.

Southamption were stronger than us, quicker than us and showed more skill on numerous occasions.  They clearly wanted it far more than us and the fact that we didn't seem setup correctly in the first place played right into their hands as well.

Another question - how much of the teams mentality in these games can be influenced by the manager?  Does Rodgers have a "hairdryer" like that old get up the East Lancs?  'Cos he bloody well needed one yesterday...

[jamieredders]

How would you tweak the current line up to improve that situation?

It's been said by others, but Southampton had almost a free run in the centre of the park.  We seemed to grossly underestimate them with the line-up.  I'm all for the attacking philosophy and scoring when we want, but it could be seen against Spurs that with 4 attack minded players on the pitch in Gerrard, Stuuridge, Suarez and Coutinho we are vulnerable in the centre.  We changed it against Spurs and ended victorious.  Coutinho being the sacrifice. 

Brendan went for Southampton's throat, but we were just not at the races.  I'm not going to knock him.  We need wins.  Every game we need to win.  He went for it but it didn't come off.  We just aren't good enough to attack like that with sides who are good enough in midfield to contain us.  So what would I change?  Nothing much, except be sure that if we play the attacking 4 together, we are confident that we can outplay them.  If we can't be sure of that, then sacrifice one.  On yesterday's showing, Sturridge for me was the most ineffectual he has been since his arrival.   


Who would you buy in the summer to address that?

Anymore Coutinho type signings would be immense.  Exceptional talent at a decent price.

[SweetSilverSevens]

It was a bloody disaster! 

[NigelManx]

Not long ago our defence was very good...whats happened..4 attackers and only two central midfield away from home when we dont give out the fear factor anymore is asking for it..Its showing up the defence as there exposed and Ill put this into the pot..The players were not interested for the most part ..no excuse but maybe they knew there was a problem with the setup Rodgers started with..May I also say in the most part BR has had a easy time from supporters for the results theres been..Othere managers haven't been so lucky.
Im not convinced by him from day one and have stayed out of the forums etc to give him a chance. I still want him to do well but he doesnt seem to be learning or maybe want to learn..His original philosophy has slightly been watered down and Im not sure wheres hes going to go next. The players at the club are better than there showing and that is a big issue for management to deal with and Im really not sure BR is experienced or even strong enough to deal with it...I hope Im wrong

[Mutton Geoff]

Given that i heard Lucas went off for some strapping in the warm up, was playing Allen always the preferred option? Hindsight is brilliant but Henderson instead of Sturridge might have worked out better, but i have the luxury of knowing the outcome managers dont.
For me the only one in the team who played well was Jones he had no chance with the goals but without his two one on one saves it would have been worse. Yes his distribution is worse than Pepe, but the first priority of a keeper is shot stopping not passing like an outfield player.

As for the goals the first one was well taken lately or maybe for ever and i missed it, Glen is shit in the air, but the goal was sublimely finished off. Second one was that old player without the balls to face up to a shot so why is he in the wall if he is going to turn his back on it like that?
The last one though pissed me off totally, we stood back and watched him, not one decent challenge until Jones saved it but the guy got the rebound.

So all in all no need to scapegoat anyone everyone was responsible for that defeat including Brendan. We lose together for real on this one.

However as usual some of our fans failed to accept that Southampton played well and have a decent coach who is delivering some good football and i believe will easily keep them up.
The time of teams beneath us just turning up to get hammered by us is long gone, and maybe if our fans accepted this we would have less dismissing of the opposition before and less vitriol when the hammering or even the win hasn't happened,

So a setback but if we went 4 wins and then lost one all season we would be doing ok really, it is a transition season and lets hope this leads to a golden sky in the near future.

Onwards and upwards.

[WorldChampions]

Last season we couldn't score for shit but had a solid defence. This season is the opposite.

Brendan has us playing good football but we are in no greater position than last season, the balance needs finding between defence and attack. Personally I preferred Kennys method of a solid defence first and foremost, at least that way it's much more difficult to lose.

We can score hatfulls this season when we go for it but we are very susceptible to a count. That wasn't the problem yesterday however, we just got out classed, out fought and tactically owned.

[Twelfth Man]

From where I stood, 4-4 at half time would have really flattered us. 

From what I saw, 6-1 at half-time would not have flattered Soton. They were impressive.

[wah00ey]

From what I saw, 6-1 at half-time would not have flattered Soton. They were impressive.

I was being polite to a well respected mod ;-)

[L666KOP]

From what I saw, 6-1 at half-time would not have flattered Soton. They were impressive.

Did they impose themselves because we were awful, or di they stop us from playing, thus making us look awful ?
Serious question.

Were we shit, or did they play that well they made us look shit ?

[JohnM]

I blame that Black away kit, it's shit and the players don't like it

[Mutton Geoff]

Did they impose themselves because we were awful, or di they stop us from playing, thus making us look awful ?
Serious question.

Were we shit, or did they play that well they made us look shit ?

given the way they did the same to City i would go for the second option they imposed themselves on us by playing well.

[loozy]

I blame that Black away kit, it's shit and the players don't like it

What's going to happen to us next season then if we play with the weird-looking kits? If they players don't like the diving-suit, what will they then think of the new ones? I shudder to think...

[Kopenhagen]

Did they impose themselves because we were awful, or di they stop us from playing, thus making us look awful ?
Serious question.

Were we shit, or did they play that well they made us look shit ?

I know it's trite, but we never earned the right to play. They played well but we let them look like Barcelona. Very lackadaisical. We couldn't string two passes together and there seemed like there was no space when we were in possession, yet they could go anywhere they wanted when they had the ball.

6-1 at HT wouldn't have flattered them. It actually got to a point where I thought we need to start playing not to get a result, but to save ourselves from an embarrassing scoreline to a relegation-threatened side.

It was quite clearly our worst performance of the season, in my opinion.

In terms of the OP, I think that we'll need a couple CBs, if Skrtel's sale is well and truly nailed on, which it seems like it is. Almost feel bad for him because I don't even think he was the worst player on the pitch, but he didn't look in it at all. He's a quality CB but hasn't had a great season and looks mentally shot, at the moment. I think a young, up-and-coming CB who's comfortable on the ball and can play it out from the back (possibly De Vrij?) and an experienced ball-winner who is also comfortable on the ball (Williams?) will be bought. I think a defensive midfielder who can compete for Lucas' place, or the other part of the '2,' is a must as well.

I'm not too miffed about it today, as long as Brendan learns from some of the tactical mistakes that were the crux of what was a very poor performance.

[Fiasco]

This isn't a nod to the old ' fucking get into them ' tribe, but we really need some physicality in the middle of the park. Someone of decent stature as well as being a good footballer. We are so weak there it's outrageous.

[Twelfth Man]

Did they impose themselves because we were awful, or di they stop us from playing, thus making us look awful ?
Serious question.

Were we shit, or did they play that well they made us look shit ?

We caused our downfall by being so imbalanced w/r/t defence and attack. Despite that, home advantage etc., most people would agree we have the better side and squad. So yes, Soton, played well, tactically they out-thought us and were pretty decent, of course we helped them, but better sides than us, with much better defensive balance, City, have come a cropper at St Mary's. So a bit of both.