Author Topic: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?  (Read 17666 times)

Online west_london_red

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2013, 09:09:55 AM »
Why wasn`t the ground enlarged and developed more in their
era, the difference between official gate figures and the numbers in the
ground were very noticable in those days.

The clubs may well have been skimming money too. All clubs had to pool their game receipts and then share them equally I believe which obviously didnt give the clubs an incentive to expend grounds but did encourage them to either accidental or deliberately under report the attendance numbers.

Offline RedinExile

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2013, 09:13:26 AM »
Wow, allegations aplenty and calling people who did a lot to keep us at the top c*nts.

Bravo.
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Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2013, 09:32:04 AM »
Wasn't it Peter Robinson's idea to to build a ground share at Aintree?

No, that came from the Local authority but was supported by both clubs, obviously to teh backdrop of Hillsborough, very different times.
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Offline jed the red

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2013, 10:11:49 AM »
Heard all the stuff John Mac mentions.  There were all sorts of fiddles going on by those two.  One hastily smothered at an AGM about certain shareholders being given free tickets.  The only astounding thing about that was that the shareholder (who'd discovered what was going on and had been in correspondence with the club), actually got the chance to speak, as unless you were quicker than Usain Bolt with your AOB question, Smith habitually slammed the shutters down and closed the meeting.

In later years, Robinson was Moores' enthusiastic mouthpiece (Moores being gutless) about barring recognition of the HJC by the club.  We clashed at an AGM in 1999.  He was a brute, attempted to be a bully, and was a utter callous bastard.     

Why would he do that Maggie?

I always got the impression he was very supportive!  (not saying he didn't by the way, just asking!)

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2013, 10:18:52 AM »
Why would he do that Maggie?

I always got the impression he was very supportive!  (not saying he didn't by the way, just asking!)

Supportive? The club didn't even recognise the HJC until 2012 in any capacity whatsoever, ironically it was Jen Chang, who did more than anybody at the club has, to this end.

As Maggie says, when the HJC did have representatives at AGMs for example, asking pertinent questions, they were abruptly dealt with. The club, for many years, operated a policy which refusd to see survivors as victims of Hillsborough. Those families whose loved ones took their own lives or had their lives irretrievably changed, ignored.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 10:24:55 AM by john_mac »
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Offline gatcliffe

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2013, 10:27:42 AM »
Wow, allegations aplenty and calling people who did a lot to keep us at the top c*nts.

Bravo.
Totally agree wish they were here today anytime.
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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2013, 10:28:14 AM »
We used to laugh when George would read out

'And todays attendance is 46,564'    When quite clearly there was over 50,000. Someone was making somewhere.
Nothing new there mate, that was the order of the day at every sporting venue.

Offline bigbear

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2013, 10:29:48 AM »
Not Lou Macari though, he went there to 'win things'.

2nd division title presumably
He was shite anyway.

Offline bigbear

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2013, 10:33:21 AM »
Sheffield Wednesday were the only club in England in the 1980s to significantly increase their capacity.  Attendances on the whole were decreasing decade upon decade from the post war boom.   Anfield average was about 38k, united 40k etc etc.  Most were content with piecemeal upgrades.   
I remember the first game I went to, Burnley at home in spring 1976 when we were going for the title. Won 2-0, supersub came on and scored (both I think) so on the way home we stopped to get the Echo which was just an essential part of my Saturday night in those days, just full of match reports, local football stuff plus it gave a League table (no teletext then). I'm sure the attendance was 36,000 for a Saturday 3pm kick off with the title on the way.

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2013, 10:36:13 AM »
Interesting. I love it when the auld arses bother themselves to post outside their own thread. ;D

Offline jed the red

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2013, 10:49:17 AM »
Supportive? The club didn't even recognise the HJC until 2012 in any capacity whatsoever, ironically it was Jen Chang, who did more than anybody at the club has, to this end.

As Maggie says, when the HJC did have representatives at AGMs for example, asking pertinent questions, they were abruptly dealt with. The club, for many years, operated a policy which refusd to see survivors as victims of Hillsborough. Those families whose loved ones took their own lives or had their lives irretrievably changed, ignored.


Well there you go then John, I didn't know that. As i say it was just the impression i got, but maybe that was formed by the likes of Kenny, i din't realise the club had been so ignorant.

So it seems i have been wrong about him, which is a shame. As you know those years were fantastic and it would have been nice to remember them with a sense of unity. But then after all the momentous allegations made in the last 12 months at people in the public eye, i dont suppose i should be surprised anymore......................................................................................now, where's me Jim'll fix it badge??   :'(

Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2013, 10:54:30 AM »
I remember the first game I went to, Burnley at home in spring 1976 when we were going for the title. Won 2-0, supersub came on and scored (both I think) so on the way home we stopped to get the Echo which was just an essential part of my Saturday night in those days, just full of match reports, local football stuff plus it gave a League table (no teletext then). I'm sure the attendance was 36,000 for a Saturday 3pm kick off with the title on the way.

Mad to think was that up to about 84 attendances were dwindling, for a number of reasons, 84 European Cup run, not sure we even had a full house, 33000 Bilbao. 36000 forthe semi. It was only after Everton started doing well that our gates took off again, no doubt it had a big affect, suddenly seeing blue bobble hats around the City, pricks. Even then the European gates weren't great, mind, nor was the opposition.

There were no live telly for any of these games, but unemployment, no doubt, played its part. You usexd to even be able to get a train back to London after the mid-weeks back then.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 10:57:40 AM by john_mac »
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Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2013, 10:57:10 AM »
Interesting. I love it when the auld arses bother themselves to post outside their own thread. ;D

Michael, to be fair, its not easy, the football world was bult on Sky coverage and Forum know-how, what the fuck could an arlarse add to a convo about Sahin or Coates or Carragher to the wisdom that is already out there?
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Offline MichaelA

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2013, 11:00:53 AM »
what the fuck could an arlarse add to a convo about Sahin or Coates or Carragher to the wisdom that is already out there?

Fuck all. Now then, are your blanket and slippers keeping you warm during this cold snap Old Timer? ;)

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2013, 11:01:06 AM »
The mad think was that up to about 84 attendances were dwindling, for a number of reasons, 84 European Cup run, not sure we even had a full house, 33000 Bilbao. 36000 forthe semi. It was only after Everton started doing well that our gates took off again, no doubt it had a big affect, suddenly seeing blue bobble hats around the City, pricks. Even then the European gates weren't great, mind, nor was the opposition.

There were no live telly for any of these games, but unemployment, no doubt, played its part. You usexd to even be able to get a train back to London after the mid-weeks back then.
It was obviously a more localised support too. What more exposure has done is increase the type of people that go to the game so there is more demand but whether that has made it better or not is another question entirely.

You could even turn up and pay on the day too and still it wasn't sold out. Unemployment was definitelya massive factor in the early 80's, less so in the mid 70's probably when I started going but like I said above mid 30,000's was common place which was probably nearly 20,000 under capacity.

Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2013, 11:14:33 AM »
You could even turn up and pay on the day too and still it wasn't sold out. Unemployment was definitelya massive factor in the early 80's, less so in the mid 70's probably when I started going but like I said above mid 30,000's was common place which was probably nearly 20,000 under capacity.

They were and ticket games were rare, very rare. Some of the biggest games in our history were pay in. As i remember it, was only Everton & United ticketed from mid-70s, the odd FA Cup game. Remember Borrussia in the last 8 was, Arsenal in the league cup semi, and Lpool sent all of ours for Highbury back coz there'd been murder at Anfield, good old Mr Robinson.

Actually think that part of the dwindling gates was through apathy and we were so much better than anybody else, it was only when Everton started to do well that it pricked interest. Average gates will never be the full story at anfield though, but you are right there were more full houses (with a smaller capacity, from teh mid80s than there were in the brilliant days of teh late 70s.
 
Mad to think of Barcelona at home in a semi being pay in now when you think about it, or finals against Borrussia and Bruges come to think of it.
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Offline longtimered

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2013, 12:00:37 PM »
As I recall there were no ticket games until the return to Division1 in 1962.Then throughout the 60's I only remember Derby games being all ticket-I paid at the gate for a number of Utd fixtures during that period.Famously the Inter Milan semi was pay at the gate-I got in the ground about 515-5,30 for a 7.30 kick off.I also paid at the gate for both championship clinching games(Arsenel 64 and Chelsea 66)-got to ground about 12.30 to queue.

Offline The 92A

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2013, 12:05:34 PM »
Always been us and them, just as the support has changed so has the ownership. Now it's russian gangsters and middle eastern shieks with international owners then it was more likely to be local businessmen made good and while we had a reputation for good practise in the football world and keeping it all hidden in house, always plenty to be pissed off as a fan. We never had a voice that was listened to we were just income. If we realised later how good those days were compared to today lets not pretend it was because of how well we were run. That was down to Shankly who fought hard to control things on the pitch and gave us a platform to build on but it was what we produced on the pitch that made us special and although we had administrators who at least recognised this and allowed managers leeway after seeing how successful this was lets not pretend they deserve loads of credit, the men who deserve the credit got it Shankly Paisley and the bootroom. That is where our success was founded.
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Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2013, 12:15:38 PM »
Always been us and them, just as the support has changed so has the ownership. Now it's russian gangsters and middle eastern shieks with international owners then it was more likely to be local businessmen made good and while we had a reputation for good practise in the football world and keeping it all hidden in house, always plenty to be pissed off as a fan. We never had a voice that was listened to we were just income. If we realised later how good those days were compared to today lets not pretend it was because of how well we were run. That was down to Shankly who fought hard to control things on the pitch and gave us a platform to build on but it was what we produced on the pitch that made us special and although we had administrators who at least recognised this and allowed managers leeway after seeing how successful this was lets not pretend they deserve loads of credit, the men who deserve the credit got it Shankly Paisley and the bootroom. That is where our success was founded.

Thing is, taht was also where the attention was focussed, which allowed administrators get away with all-sorts and then people look back with rose tinted glasses about the era. Its like some of the players now referred to as 'Liverpool legends', most of them weren't, but the kids at the academy are exposed more than the likes of even, say. Aldridge was. Peter Cormack, say, may have been a big Shankly signing, at Liverpool for 5 years, a Scotland international when they were good, but he had less television exposure in his career than Sterling has at 18. Its much the same with Robsinson and more particularly Smith, who was a c*nt, people look back nostalgically at a golden era and tehy benefit from this and don't face the over-analysis that the administrators at football clubs do now.
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Offline The 92A

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2013, 12:39:25 PM »
The other thing was that now, money and football are so linked everything is totally cut-throat, one boardroom fuck up can set you back ten to fifteen years like Hicks and Gillette did to us. With the general mediocrity of all owners them days, there was more room for mistakes, you had more time on the ball and  therefore your fuck ups were easier to hide and less crucial, Football was still run in part by grocers and factory owners  as a hobby, the likes of Hicks and Gillette where only begining to eye up their Weetabix's and hadn't even heard of football. In this world it wasn't that our owners were brilliant it was that there was no competion, not hard to look good standing next to fat Louis and Michael Knighton but we were just cattle through the turnstiles.
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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2013, 01:08:24 PM »
They were and ticket games were rare, very rare. Some of the biggest games in our history were pay in. As i remember it, was only Everton & United ticketed from mid-70s, the odd FA Cup game...

Yer memory's not failing yer John ...



Offline John C

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2013, 01:19:40 PM »
Yer memory's not failing yer John ...



Wow, my memory fades mate, when I was a kid I only remember vouchers being issued for the Derby. I remember a few of us standing at the top of the steps in the Paddock asking people for their vouchers if they weren't going to go, we'd collect a loads then sell them in school on the Monday.

Offline Benimar Col

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #62 on: January 12, 2013, 01:36:10 PM »
I honestly believe when Mr. Robinson left we never, eevr replaced him.  We could do with somebody with a footballing mind in that role of Club Secretary.

As club secretary his role in the 21st century would be extinct, it's a big commercial business now rather than just  a football club as it was back in the glory years
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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2013, 01:38:21 PM »
Used to always go to Goodison about 2 weeks before the Derby and go in the enclosure to get a voucher, which got us a ticket for the game. Used to get it right but miscalculated a few times and had to stand through the blues for nothing.

Some of the early round European Cup ties and League Cup ties in the early 80's only pulled in 10-15,000 which is unthinkable now, hard times.

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2013, 01:47:11 PM »
Wow, allegations aplenty and calling people who did a lot to keep us at the top c*nts.

Bravo.

Well, if you don't like it, tough shit.  I can prove what I say.

I was a shareholder and was at the AGM when the issue of free tickets to a select few was raised and rapidly smothered by Smith.

As to the HJC issue, I spoke at the AGM's of 1999 and 2000 requesting that the club formally recognise the HJC.  At the 2001 AGM, Coco announced that the board had decided the matter would never be discussed again at any AGM.

What John Mac says was commonly known and proveable - if either of us can be arsed to do so - certainly not to oblige you, that's for sure.  Tosser.
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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2013, 02:56:38 PM »
The other thing was that now, money and football are so linked everything is totally cut-throat, one boardroom fuck up can set you back ten to fifteen years like Hicks and Gillette did to us. With the general mediocrity of all owners them days, there was more room for mistakes, you had more time on the ball and  therefore your fuck ups were easier to hide and less crucial, Football was still run in part by grocers and factory owners  as a hobby, the likes of Hicks and Gillette where only begining to eye up their Weetabix's and hadn't even heard of football. In this world it wasn't that our owners were brilliant it was that there was no competion, not hard to look good standing next to fat Louis and Michael Knighton but we were just cattle through the turnstiles.

Absolutely spot on Albie, I remember when Burnley were in the first division, indeed Division 1 champions in 1959/60, they also reached the quarter final of the European Cup 1961 and their Chairman was the local Butcher Bob Lord
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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2013, 03:18:37 PM »
Yer memory's not failing yer John ...




See, looks like all the tickets (and vouchers) had his name on them
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Offline The 92A

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2013, 04:56:15 PM »
Used to always go to Goodison about 2 weeks before the Derby and go in the enclosure to get a voucher, which got us a ticket for the game. Used to get it right but miscalculated a few times and had to stand through the blues for nothing.

Some of the early round European Cup ties and League Cup ties in the early 80's only pulled in 10-15,000 which is unthinkable now, hard times.


Remember missing 15 mins of an early European tie because although there before kick off they only opened a few turnstiles on The Kop, everyone knew it would be empty turned up twenty minutes before loads of time to get in but they couldn't be arsed opening all the usual turnies.
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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #68 on: January 12, 2013, 04:57:53 PM »
John and Maggie are right.  We were treated like shit.  I eventually gave up my season ticket after 21 years in 1998 (10 of those years hardly missing an away either), purely for off the field stuff.  I actually faxed a copy of my two fingers and a photocopy of my arse to LFC for various reasons after being treated (once again) like shit.

One (of many) examples:
290 quid to fly from Speke to CDG, 1 hour in Paris and a match ticket for PSG then flight straight home - no other way to get a ticket from Liverpool.  I was working in London at the time and quicker for me to get to Paris than Liverpool.  Member of the European Away Travel Group having been to previous ties but still would give me a ticket unless I forked out 290 quid.  We got over for 70 quid a head including 3 nights in a Paris hotel - no ticket though.  Not to worry, they were available in HMV on the Champs Elysees on the day.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 05:00:55 PM by Andy G »
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Offline Maggie May

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2013, 05:09:38 PM »
I actually faxed a copy of my two fingers and a photocopy of my arse to LFC for various reasons after being treated (once again) like shit.


That's bloody marvellous.  I'm jealous as hell that I never thought of doing such a thing.  You're my hero Andy.   :-*
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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2013, 05:26:25 PM »
That's bloody marvellous.  I'm jealous as hell that I never thought of doing such a thing.  You're my hero Andy.   :-*

You haven't seen his kex Maggie, like something off Swapshop!
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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2013, 05:33:00 PM »
You haven't seen his kex Maggie, like something off Swapshop!

Jealousy is not a fine trait in a man John.  This thread should be entitled "Do my kex get enough credit?"
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