Topic: PlayStation 2 manufacture ceases worldwide

[Red James]

You're dismissing some pretty massive and quality exclusives just because you don't like them. I don't like LBP or Killzone, but can still say that they're pretty massive/notable Sony exclusives. Gears, Halo, Fable, Forza, PGR and Lost Odyssey are all great or at least good exclusives. Then you add to the list games that were Xbox (or windows) exclusives for a significant period of time and you can add the first two Mass Effects, Bioshock etc. I'm not discounting the PS2's library and I could argue with equal efficacy and evidence that it is the console with the better back-catalogue. However, I believe the 360 takes it due to the staggering quality of the best games on it and the way it revolutionised console multiplayer.

I wouldn't count Fable really as a good exclusive. As an RPG it's really quite crap and I only consider Fable TLC as good, and that was on the Xbox. I don't play racing games either but I'll take your word for it that they're good. I'll give Bioshock and ME1, ME2 doesn't really count as it was released for xbox at the same time as PC. Also I only just found out now that ME1 was only released on the PS3 in December, took it's time.

As for multiplayer I'd say that yes the 360 is the best console for multiplayer. Despite having to pay, it has the best console multiplaying scene. But I still believe that the PS2 remains the best console of all time on merit of the fantastic games, but that's just my opinion.

[Malaysian Kopite]

Why is the 360 so unreliable?

I've got one of the earliest 360's with me and fortunately I've never had any problems with it.

If you look on metacritic, 99 percent of multiplatform games on both ps3 and 360 have the same score. The odd ones have a point or two better in either direction. So it comes down to exclusives, and the last time I checked, PS3 had higher rated exclusives. But its bound to, it didn't shut studio's down, it didn't focus energy on timed dlc.

I'm guessing that its based on some AAA multiplatform games like Skyrim or Blops 2 which have some massive problems on the PS3.

[Upinsmoke]

I've got one of the earliest 360's with me and fortunately I've never had any problems with it.
I'm guessing that its based on some AAA multiplatform games like Skyrim or Blops 2 which have some massive problems on the PS3.

I'm sure it is, those probably go in the 360's favour like I said, But let's not beat around the bush, the games you mention are riddled with bugs across all platforms. Its widely considered that the ps3 has the best exclusive library (metacritic backs this up) and since multiplatform games are on...well several platforms, it matters little. Because everyone plays the same game, bar the odd missing tree, or objects rendering slower. It was a shame about skyrim, should never of been released on ps3 with those issues, in the end it was sorted. I remember a bug in fallout 3 where you would save the game and you would start it up again and the save would be gone.

[Malaysian Kopite]

Its widely considered that the ps3 has the best exclusive library.

This gen? It does in my IMO but the PS2's got the best game library of all time.

[Upinsmoke]

I'm not being bitchy or overly biased, I owned a 360 before a ps3 until it bricked when halo reach came out. The fact is that while Microsoft has Gears and Halo and such, they were very aggressive getting COD dlc first, GTA dlc first, almost marketing them and pushing them like exclusives. They invested a lot of money in these sorts of things, throw in kinect and you have a console that has a certain demographic. One that is focused on shifting a lot of units, not like sony isn't but MS don't care as much if a game is shit, but if it sells there all over it. I'm not painting Sony as saints either, but they produced games like Uncharted, Heavy Rain, LBP, popular games that really wowed me, yet don't sell anywhere near your yearly rehashes.

[Drinks Sangria]

I wouldn't count Fable really as a good exclusive. As an RPG it's really quite crap and I only consider Fable TLC as good, and that was on the Xbox. I don't play racing games either but I'll take your word for it that they're good. I'll give Bioshock and ME1, ME2 doesn't really count as it was released for xbox at the same time as PC. Also I only just found out now that ME1 was only released on the PS3 in December, took it's time.

As for multiplayer I'd say that yes the 360 is the best console for multiplayer. Despite having to pay, it has the best console multiplaying scene. But I still believe that the PS2 remains the best console of all time on merit of the fantastic games, but that's just my opinion.

You're entirely entitled to your opinion, but please don't misappropriate mine. I consider Fable a good exclusive and I directly alluded that some of those games were timed exclusives or exclusives to Windows, not just xbox.

[lachesis]

Interesting debate. My favourite console had to be the first playstation. Loved that machine and the games.

I then went XBOX, PS2, XBOX360, Wii, Xbox360 and Wii, XBOX360 & PS3, PS3 only

Considering the multiple xbox 360 consoles sold for those who flashed them and got banned (which can still be flashed) compared to the PS3 which is almost unhackable (except for that brief period with 3.55 was it - it's quite an impressive close fought contest in terms of sales. I know PS3 games can be patched to play on the higher firmwares now and there are tools to downgrade certain firmwares as well, but I don't think we can argue that Xbox 360 sales spiked with the ban waves.

Of all the above consoles, I liked them all at the time I had them. PSX brings back my fondest memories, then I loved the XBOX. Liked the 360 pretty much but have settled on the PS3 now. The reason I swapped was that most games developed a same-ish feel to them on the 360 to me. Not sure how to expand on that.

I like the exclusives on the PS3 and the upcoming ones as well for 2013. Xbox 360 is probably the most popular but it doesn't make it the 'best'. It's just a preference. And to be honest they should both fall short because it's been so long since a driving game has captured gamers imaginations. Racers used to be launch titles and awesome ones at that. Games like Lotus, Ridge Racer, PGR have all just gone downhill.

To sum up, both consoles of this generation have their strengths and weaknesses. The problem is that neither vendor has done a whole lot to distance themselves from the other. They both churn out more misses than hits and are more focused on what other content they can push rater than make it excel at what most people buy it for.

[N-Red]

^The first Playstation had absolute gems like FF7,8,9 and MGS1. Blew me away playing those four games. Just amazing at the time. Still try to play those FF games at least once a year when i have the time and in between current gen games.

[Newman96]

Regarding PS3 vs Xbox, pretty much the deciding factor for me is Party chat. I love just being able to chat to my friends on it without being in the same lobby, not sure why PS3 never added it.

[Malaysian Kopite]

Can we stop the PS3 vs 360 though? This is a PS2 thread.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

The lads in nick will be devvod

[Newman96]

Just replayed and finished MGS3, what a fantastic game that was. PS2 really had an unbelievable library of games.

Anyone ever play the Kingdom Hearts series? Perhaps a bit to childish for most on here..

[Red James]

Just replayed and finished MGS3, what a fantastic game that was. PS2 really had an unbelievable library of games.

Anyone ever play the Kingdom Hearts series? Perhaps a bit to childish for most on here..

Someone would only consider it childish if they looked and thought "bah disney kid stuff". If you look past that it has a pretty dark story and excellent gameplay. I just wish they'd hurry up with a full on KH3 instead of all this handheld crap.

Plus Christopher Lee.

[Newman96]

Yeah it's a really great story and the gameplay is great. Still challenging now when I replay it, was addicted to it as a kid!


Think they're about to release The first one in HD over in Japan so that should be over here eventually, after the HD releases it's confirmed the third one will be the next release.

Aye I remember seeing that and being quite surprised he was in it, Sora is the kid from The Sixth Sense too.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Just replayed and finished MGS3, what a fantastic game that was.

[Newman96]

Was the HD Collection mind, sadly MGS 2 isn't translating as well. Going to try and soldier on though.

[Golden_Child]

Ps2 is my most played console of all time without doubt. I've owned a mega drive, Saturn, ps1 (chipped), ps2, Xbox & ps3. Out of those I've bought the most games on ps3 due to having a job etc. I love my ps3 and think its exclusives piss all over the 360's but when it comes down to it I ultimately spent more hours on my ps2.

Blame PES 4,5 & 6 

[bigbosh69]

Yeah it's a really great story and the gameplay is great. Still challenging now when I replay it, was addicted to it as a kid!


Think they're about to release The first one in HD over in Japan so that should be over here eventually, after the HD releases it's confirmed the third one will be the next release.

Aye I remember seeing that and being quite surprised he was in it, Sora is the kid from The Sixth Sense too.

Manage to beat Sephiroth?

I'd have to say the first is still one of my favourites of all time, it was just a great, rich game. Good gameplay, good story, great graphics (for the time).

They spoiled it a little in the sequel for me, the story went TOO convolutedly JRPG having a DS game serve to disrupt the narrative between proper games making the start incomprehensible. Also, the increased scale and simplified mechanics just made it less purposeful and affecting for me.

[Red James]

Manage to beat Sephiroth?

I'd have to say the first is still one of my favourites of all time, it was just a great, rich game. Good gameplay, good story, great graphics (for the time).

They spoiled it a little in the sequel for me, the story went TOO convolutedly JRPG having a DS game serve to disrupt the narrative between proper games making the start incomprehensible. Also, the increased scale and simplified mechanics just made it less purposeful and affecting for me.

I've lost track of the story as it diverted into a load of handheld games I haven't touched and I don't want to have to scour the internet to understand what's happened in each game.

[Newman96]

Manage to beat Sephiroth?

I'd have to say the first is still one of my favourites of all time, it was just a great, rich game. Good gameplay, good story, great graphics (for the time).

They spoiled it a little in the sequel for me, the story went TOO convolutedly JRPG having a DS game serve to disrupt the narrative between proper games making the start incomprehensible. Also, the increased scale and simplified mechanics just made it less purposeful and affecting for me.

No I never could beat him, was such a bastard! Still it's such a fun game, love the mixture of FF and Kingdom Hearts characters. Squall has got to be my favourite, should of kept his name :p

Yeah it is annoying how they keep making these spinoffs that seem to be Key to the story. I don't have any interest in playing them but as someone else posted I don't want to scour online for the story.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Oh, and best wrestling game ever was Here Comes The Pain.

This

[Anywhichwayicant]

Ps2 is my most played console of all time without doubt. I've owned a mega drive, Saturn, ps1 (chipped), ps2, Xbox & ps3. Out of those I've bought the most games on ps3 due to having a job etc. I love my ps3 and think its exclusives piss all over the 360's but when it comes down to it I ultimately spent more hours on my ps2.

Blame PES 4,5 & 6 

PES was devilishly good back then.

[S]

My PS2 top 5 in no particular order...

Here Comes The Pain - 6 player mode on was possibly the best multiplayer game I've ever played. Helped that it came between two eras and as such had a good roster - Rock, Stone Cold, Lesnar, Goldberg, Undertaker etc.
PES - Nothing to add that hasn't already been said. Doubt I'll ever put as many hours into a game as I did with those.
FFX - Another obvious shout, one of the best storylines in any game. Also, I never considered it's sequel to be that bad.
GTA San Andreas - In terms of sheer fun, I doubt RockStar will ever top this. Also, K-DST.
Prince of Persia - Sands of Time - Not a PS2 exclusive, but such a good game. Anyone else used to have it?

[Malaysian Kopite]

Prince of Persia - Sands of Time - Not a PS2 exclusive, but such a good game. Anyone else used to have it?

Loved it. They really should have stuck with the same formula.

[jackh]

PlayStation 2 at 20: the console that revealed the future of gaming

The successor to Sony’s original PlayStation is still the bestselling games machine of all time – and it has a legacy of true innovation

It has to be said, the launch titles were not great. When the PlayStation 2 arrived in Japan on 4 March 2000, the first games early purchasers got to take home with them included a mahjong sim and a digital train set. The big-name titles, Street Fighter EX3 and Ridge Racer 5, were formulaic entries in tired legacy franchises. Meanwhile, Sega’s Dreamcast machine, released a year earlier, was hosting innovative hits such as Shenmue, Crazy Taxi and Power Stone. Had Sony stumbled after its hugely successful and highly disruptive original PlayStation?

No, it had not. It just took developers time to understand the architecture of this forward-looking console – especially its hyperbolically named Emotion Engine, the 128-bit central processing unit at the core of the box, designed to generate large, explorable 3D environments and fill them with life.

Looking back, that might not have been the most significant hardware decision made by Ken Kuturagi, the engineering mastermind known as “the father of PlayStation”. His team also fitted the PS2 with a DVD player, allowing owners to watch movies as well as play games – and with a launch price of ¥39,800 ($299 in the US and £299 in the UK), it wasn’t vastly more expensive than dedicated DVD players of the era. This made the PS2 one of the first games consoles to truly graduate from teen bedroom to family living room – especially when a PlayStation TV remote control accessory was released.

Kuturagi also added online gaming support, and although original machines required a network adaptor and it took a year before the facility was really supported, this allowed potential customers to believe they were buying into the future. It also brought us Final Fantasy XI, a major move forward in the concept of massively multiplayer online role-playing games on consoles. Backwards compatibility with the original PlayStation also ensured brand loyalty from many millions of owners.

Despite looming competition from the Nintendo GameCube and the Microsoft Xbox, the PlayStation 2 was an instant smash, selling more than three million units in its first year in Japan alone and hitting 20m worldwide by the end of 2001. The machine effectively ushered in the modern era of highly cinematic blockbuster action adventures, with titles such as Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, Metal Gear Solid 2 and Devil May Cry thrilling players with their depth, visual detail and mature themes.

But the sheer ubiquity of the console and its vast global user base also allowed for a growing pool of experimental titles, which used the power of the Emotion Engine in very different ways. From elegiac adventures Ico and Shadow of the Colossus to psychological horror classic Silent Hill 2 and hallucinogenic joyride Katamari Damacy, the PS2 was home to titles that inspired the nascent independent game development scene of the mid-2000s.

At the same time European publishers, desperate for content to satisfy the overwhelming demand for new titles, began importing an array of lesser-known Japanese titles that perhaps would never have appeared in the international market in previous console generations. The strange voyeuristic photography game Polaroid Pete (aka Gekisha Boy 2), the orchestra conducting sim Mad Maestro! and early Untitled Goose Game forerunner Mister Mosquito, in which you play an insect annoying a suburban family, were all imported by UK publishers looking for sleeper hits.

The console also heralded interesting experiments in user interfaces. The arrival of the Guitar Hero series with its elaborate controllers; the SingStar games with their USB microphones; Sony’s EyeToy camera, which brought augmented reality gaming to living rooms; and the successful Buzz! series of family quiz games that came with simple one-button joypads – all of these played with the idea of what it meant to control a game, most before the arrival of the Nintendo Wii.

Both the GameCube and Xbox brought new gaming pleasures to players in the early to mid-2000s, but the PlayStation 2 dominated, becoming the bestselling console of all time with sales of almost 160m units. Its legacy is felt in the open-world games we now play, such as Assassin’s Creed, The Elder Scrolls and Red Dead Redemption, and some of its biggest hits – God of War, Devil May Cry, GTA, Jak and Daxter – are still being repurposed and reinvented for today’s players.

At the time, gaming pundits rather scoffed at the grandiose Emotion Engine branding of the PlayStation 2 tech but in the end, the experiences it provided lived up to that promise. From riding a BMX bike to the summit of GTA’s Mount Chiliad to Colonel Campbell going mad in Metal Gear Solid 2 and trying to convince the player to switch off their console, it was a machine whose success and security allowed publishers and developers to play about with the rules, and to respect us as players and explorers. They were interesting times.

PlayStation 2 at 20: the console that revealed the future of gaming

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/mar/04/sony-playstation-2-at-20-console-future-of-gaming

[AndyMuller]

PlayStation 2 at 20: the console that revealed the future of gaming

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/mar/04/sony-playstation-2-at-20-console-future-of-gaming

Read that before on the train, what a console that was!

[S]

Huge library with a ton of classic games.

Built so well too. I still use mine regularly and it works absolutely fine. Despite being carted around all over the place.

The PS2 has a solid case for being the greatest console ever made.

[jackh]

Read that before on the train, what a console that was!

For the period between the European releases of the PS2 & PS3, I aged 12-19 - so many good memories of that console from during my teenage years.  GTA III, Vice City, & San Andreas, Gran Turismo 4, and the golden era of Pro Evo being particular favourites.

[gerrardisgod]

Remember getting one on release, Fantavision, Smugglers Run and Crazy Taxi. There must have been better out on release than that pile of shite

Quick check says Crazy Taxi wasn’t out release day, my list just got worse. Somehow.

[naYoRHa2b]

PS2 was my favourite console in terms of single player experiences. So many fond memories. MGS2 & 3. Gran Turismo 3, SSX, Ace Combat 4 (think it was 4) FFX. The major one for me that blew me away was GTA 3.

You just can't fuck with that.

[FiSh77]

Remember getting one on release, Fantavision, Smugglers Run and Crazy Taxi. There must have been better out on release than that pile of shite

Quick check says Crazy Taxi wasn’t out release day, my list just got worse. Somehow.

I got Timesplitters and ISS with mine

[Broad Spectrum]

Console that had one of the most important games in history; GTA III. To think only 4 years earlier in 1997 GTA was released, and then they released GTA III in 2001 which just blew everyone's mind. Good times.

Pro Evo was boss on PS2 as well.

[Macphisto80]

Probably the last console I was ever really excited for. Had a Japanese import. Was mad trying to get games into it, as it tried to eat your fingers when you ejected the disc tray. I had like a 5 second window to remove the disc and put a new one in before it slammed shut. Still think the Dreamcast was ahead of it as far as it being ahead of its time, though. It's just a shame it died off faster than it deserved to, partly due to the PS2, but no complaints there as it was a fantastic console in its own right. Still think the PS1 was just slightly better, though. I remember the PS2's launch lineup was grim as fuck, though, with only SSX being really appealing at the time.

[naYoRHa2b]

Probably the last console I was ever really excited for. Had a Japanese import. Was mad trying to get games into it, as it tried to eat your fingers when you ejected the disc tray. I had like a 5 second window to remove the disc and put a new one in before it slammed shut. Still think the Dreamcast was ahead of it as far as it being ahead of its time, though. It's just a shame it died off faster than it deserved to, partly due to the PS2, but no complaints there as it was a fantastic console in its own right. Still think the PS1 was just slightly better, though. I remember the PS2's launch lineup was grim as fuck, though, with only SSX being really appealing at the time.

I got Ridge Racer and Tekken Tag on launch day. I feel what your saying about the dreamcast, it was more ambitious that's for sure also and it had some unique gaming experiences for it's time like Shenmue. I still have one in my loft somewhere I think.

[Macphisto80]

Console that had one of the most important games in history; GTA III. To think only 4 years earlier in 1997 GTA was released, and then they released GTA III in 2001 which just blew everyone's mind. Good times.

Pro Evo was boss on PS2 as well.

GTA 3 might have been the more recognisable, but what actually lead to GTA3 wasn't GTA. Before Rockstar were Rockstar, they were called DMA Design, and their first 3d open world game that had you hopping in and out of vehicles was Body Harvest on the N64. Very underrated game, that, and I'd love it if they remade it at some point.

[Macphisto80]

I got Ridge Racer and Tekken Tag on launch day. I feel what your saying about the dreamcast, it was more ambitious that's for sure also and it had some unique gaming experiences for it's time like Shenmue. I still have one in my loft somewhere I think.

I gave those two games a miss in the EU launch because I'd the Japanese imports of them. SSX was a reluctant first purchase to go with it, but didn't regret it. Fantastic game it was.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

GTA 3 might have been the more recognisable, but what actually lead to GTA3 wasn't GTA. Before Rockstar were Rockstar, they were called DMA Design, and their first 3d open world game that had you hopping in and out of vehicles was Body Harvest on the N64. Very underrated game, that, and I'd love it if they remade it at some point.

Shout! I had Body Harvest. Brilliant little game.

[S]

The Dreamcast was so far ahead of its time. It's crazy to think they were pushing for online play in 1999. The little device you plugged into your controller was pretty cool too. Crazy looking controller that was somehow comfortable. I have a soft spot for that console.

GTA 3 might have been the more recognisable, but what actually lead to GTA3 wasn't GTA. Before Rockstar were Rockstar, they were called DMA Design, and their first 3d open world game that had you hopping in and out of vehicles was Body Harvest on the N64. Very underrated game, that, and I'd love it if they remade it at some point.

Always knew of Body Harvest, had no idea of that connection though. Interesting.

[S]

I've had a PS1, PS2 and now loving my PS4.

Where did they go wrong with the PS3 though? I sort of skipped that generation but it never seemed to enjoy the success of the other models. Everyone I knew had the 360 instead.

In terms of a sliding doors moment, the Nintendo/Sony fallout during the SNES era really had massive consequences. If that doesn't happen, maybe Sony never make their own console, FF7 is a N64 game, might Sega still be around?

[Macphisto80]

I've had a PS1, PS2 and now loving my PS4.

Where did they go wrong with the PS3 though? I sort of skipped that generation but it never seemed to enjoy the success of the other models. Everyone I knew had the 360 instead.

PS3 came out a year after the 360, I think, and when it did come out, it was over priced. Not only that, but sony had a rotten attitude, telling people to "get a second job" or some shit like that if they couldn't afford it. Let's be honest, though, the 360 was just a far better system than it from early on. Nevermind the red ring fiasco. It just carried on from the momentum of the first Xbox, and Xbox Live was amazing. The 360 was a fantastic system. Had it had a strong end to its cycle, I'd probably have had it up there with the SNES for the best system ever.

In terms of a sliding doors moment, the Nintendo/Sony fallout during the SNES era really had massive consequences. If that doesn't happen, maybe Sony never make their own console, FF7 is a N64 game, might Sega still be around?

Yeah, it was. Nintendo must have kicked themselves. Not only then, but for the aforementioned Grand Theft Auto. DMA were owned by Nintendo during the development of Body Harvest. In fact, most of the ideas that formed the genesis of what GTA actually is came from Nintendo themselves, and more specifically Shigeru Miyamoto. Yes, the creator of Mario had a major influence on one of the most violent games ever made. Funny how that works out. But just like how Nintendo cut ties with Sony, they also cut them with DMA, and they were then picked up by Take Two Interactive to publish their games in the States. They rebranded them into Rockstar North. Nintendo's game design suggestions for Body Harvest formed a template for GTA, and the rest is history.

Would Sony have made a console if they had have stayed with Nintendo? Probably. They were most likely using Nintendo for their trade craft.