Topic: The LibDems are slightly less f*cked thread

[muyuu]

I personally believe they will, yes. They got a deserved kicking this time round, but I think things will be different in five years. I don't see why they won't have a good chance of regaining those SW seats, for a start.

If they wipe out the generation of the tuition fees back-stab, I reckon they can come back stronger.

[Red Beret]

They'll have a much harder job in the North West, especially Merseyside.  We're basically a one party state here for the time being.

[Circa1892]

With Labour seemingly looking like they may lurch to the right again, is there any hope for a revival of the LibDems given that, the last few years, a lot of their policies have been more to the left of Labour anyway?

Depends where the votes have gone though. The young Liberal voters have almost to a person gone over to the Greens, and I don't think they're coming back anytime soon.

[Trada]

Maybe interesting viewing


A legal challenge over the election of Scotland’s only Liberal Democrat MP will be televised live.

STV News cameras will be in court next week when proceedings in a petition brought by a number of constituents challenging the election of Alistair Carmichael as MP for Orkney and Shetland get underway.

It will be the first time proceedings in the Election Court will be broadcast live after the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service reached an agreement with STV 

Earlier this year a judge-led group appointed by the Lord President recommended that filming of legal debates in civil first instance proceedings may be allowed for live transmission, subject to guidelines.

The Lord Justice Clerk, Lord Carloway, has granted permission for live broadcast arrangements to be put in place to allow constituents in Orkney and Shetland to watch the Election Court hearing.

The case has been raised by four of Carmichael’s constituents, who argue that he misled the electorate over a leaked memo claiming that SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon would rather have seen David Cameron remain prime minister.

The Election Court trial will start at 10.30am next Monday in Court 1 at the Court of Session in Edinburgh in front of Lady Paton and Lord Matthews.

Proceedings will be broadcast on STV Glasgow and STV Edinburgh and streamed live on the STV website as well courtesy of special remotely controlled cameras inside the court. 

Journalists will also be allowed to use Twitter to tweet live from the courtroom during the course of the hearing.

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/alistair-carmichael-legal-challenge-will-be-broadcast-live

[SP]

Credit to Nick Clegg. Ashcroft's porcine revenges not Cameron was a direct result of Clegg vetoing offering him a proper job.

[Red Beret]

Am I the only one who thinks a millionaire MP should not be allowed to donate to his own party in the expectation of receiving a job anyway?

[SP]

Am I the only one who thinks a millionaire MP should not be allowed to donate to his own party in the expectation of receiving a job anyway?

No, it stinks. Without Clegg though, it would not have come out though.

[west_london_red]

Am I the only one who thinks a millionaire MP should not be allowed to donate to his own party in the expectation of receiving a job anyway?

Thats crossed my mind too, surely theres a case here for bribery/corruption, breaching parlimentary rules and god knows what else

[Peabee]

Farron is making a rod for his own back attacking Labour etc rather than concentrating on his own party's policies.  They've apparently been sending out emails critiquing other parties rather than setting out their own plans. 

[SP]

Farron is making a rod for his own back attacking Labour etc rather than concentrating on his own party's policies.  They've apparently been sending out emails critiquing other parties rather than setting out their own plans. 

It suits the Lib Dems to portray Labour veering to the left and the Tories disappearing over the right horizon. Portraying themselves as a centrist voice of reason. There is nearly 5 years until the next election. No point setting out many policies yet - no fucker is going to read them, and they are not going to be in a position to implement them. Pointing out the extremes of the 2 main parties whilst keeping their policy powder dry is very sensible. 

[johnsmithlfc]

Farron is making a rod for his own back attacking Labour etc rather than concentrating on his own party's policies.  They've apparently been sending out emails critiquing other parties rather than setting out their own plans.

Yeah, thought he came across poorly and desperate in that daily politics interview.

[Red Beret]

Well what else can he talk about really?

[beardsley4ever]

Thats crossed my mind too, surely theres a case here for bribery/corruption, breaching parlimentary rules and god knows what else

I thought the point, though, was that Cameron didn't play along with the attempt to buy a big role? Hard to criticize him for that, unless it is then shown that he had done it for others?

[Les Willis]

Clegg denies this was the case, though perhaps that is to try to get himself out of a shitstorm that is surely coming between Ashcroft and Cameron.

Farron is awful. I thought Clegg spoke very well and very reasonably on the future of the EU and the Lib Dems on R4 today. He was positive to the idea of having a conversation with Labour about working together on certain issues, and indeed about working with the more progressive Tories on certain things too. Politics needs more cross-party engagement and less tribalism. It's good when prominent figures endorse that.

I realise he had to resign, but clearly out of the other MPs that the Lib Dems have left in the commons there was really no one suitable as leader, therefore they should have turned around and said to Nick please stay on. He would have had to take on board the unpopularity of the coalition decision and even ditch some of his more right wing principles. But he was probably the Lib Dems most charismatic leader available - Farron isn't.

[TepidT2O]

I realise he had to resign, but clearly out of the other MPs that the Lib Dems have left in the commons there was really no one suitable as leader, therefore they should have turned around and said to Nick please stay on. He would have had to take on board the unpopularity of the coalition decision and even ditch some of his more right wing principles. But he was probably the Lib Dems most charismatic leader available - Farron isn't.

But it's the lib dems... Charisma doesn't really play a part, they are the third party again... The different option....

It's an easier place to be in, and it also means they can be the most honest party again...(because they won't be sullied by the inconvenience of power... Still, neither will labour )

[Mouth]

But he was probably the Lib Dems most charismatic leader available - Farron isn't.

To be fair, they only had 8 people left to choose from.

[Les Willis]

To be fair, they only had 8 people left to choose from.

Well yeah. I suppose their best bet would be if Cable got in at a bye election (a big if), at least he has some sort of gravitas. But as the thread title says, they are pretty fucked and will be for the forseeable - even with Labour vacating the middle ground.

[Les Willis]

But it's the lib dems... Charisma doesn't really play a part, they are the third party again... The different option....

It's an easier place to be in, and it also means they can be the most honest party again...(because they won't be sullied by the inconvenience of power... Still, neither will labour )

All true. Sadly.

[TepidT2O]

Yep, exactly. Not that it necessarily needs to be about charisma, as Corbyn has proven. But Farron doesn't really offer anything new, he doesn't offer energy, he doesn't offer a clear direction, he doesn't offer a fresh start... it's really underwhelming for the Lib Dems. The only upside is that they'll get a chance for a bit of stability and some time to regroup and rebuild. But who really wants to rebuild under Farron? I've defended Clegg a few times in here, and though he obviously made mistakes, and suffered a couple of big losses while in coalition, I still think he is the most credible and capable leader of the Lib Dems, as well as not being the awful human being that many on here would have you believe.

Meh.

Bring back Paddy Ashdown, I say.

Paddy Ashdown may not be leader, but he is effectively in control of the lib dems at the moment.

[CornerFlag]

Really good talk with Clegg in the Indy on his role in the coalition and how the Tories effectively bend over every poor citizen of this country.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nick-clegg-accuses-conservatives-of-rigging-the-rules-in-attempt-to-create-one-party-state-a6896086.html

Nick Clegg accuses Conservatives of 'rigging the rules' in attempt to create 'one-party state'

Exclusive: Former Deputy Prime Minister says David Cameron is 'squandering' the Coalition's 'progressive legacy'

Nick Clegg has accused the Conservatives of “Americanising” British politics by “rigging the rules” against their opponents in the hope of creating a “one-party state.”

In his first newspaper interview since last May’s general election, the former Deputy Prime Minister condemned David Cameron for using “One Nation rhetoric” to mask his Government’s decision to abandon the Coalition’s progressive policies.

Mr Clegg told The Independent that the Tories had departed dramatically from the tradition that the “rules of the game” in British politics were agreed on a cross-party basis.

He cited their “petty, spiteful” moves to cripple Labour’s funding by changing the way trade unionists pay the political levy and cutting state funding for opposition parties.

He said: “If you look at the way the Conservatives seek to hobble and neuter Westminster, the bullying swagger with which they treat the BBC, the general air of hubris, there is a feeling that politics is being reduced to the whims and mood swings of one political party. That is not healthy.

“A combination of US-style game playing by the Conservatives and Labour’s self-indulgence is conspiring to leave millions of British voters completely voiceless.”

The former Liberal Democrat leader said: “It has got George Gideon Oliver Osborne, son of Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet of Ballentaylor and Ballylemon and Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock, educated at St. Paul's and Magdalen College, Oxford’s fingerprints all over it. It is the Lyndon Johnson style of politics” – a reference to the US President in the 1960s who was seen as a ruthless bully. He also likened the Chancellor to Jose Mourinho, the former Chelsea manager, saying they were both “very clever, very skilled” but took “a little too much pleasure at the misfortunes of others” and “twisting the knife”.

Mr Clegg said: “In one-party politics without any meaningful opposition, people can fool themselves that if they have said something, it must be true. They distort the English language and talk about social mobility when doing precisely the opposite… They believe their own hype.”

Warning that other parties would eventually take their revenge, Mr Clegg said: “The Conservatives need to watch out. One day, the boot will be on the other foot. They might think they will be in power forever, but they won’t be. Things change.”

 When Mr Cameron promised a “One Nation” government after winning last year’s election, Mr Clegg was hopeful that the Prime Minister would build on the Coalition’s “progressive legacy”.

Nine months on, Mr Clegg believes that legacy is being “squandered”, saying he has been “provoked” into speaking out against his former coalition partner. “The rhetoric at the beginning from David Cameron was good. I held my tongue. But I am afraid the very thin gruel the Prime Minister has announced, and the deeply regressive steps taken by his Chancellor, means it is insecure, hollow double-speak,” he said.

“People need be judged by their actions, not their words… They are trying to pull the wool over people’s eyes by indulging in poetic rhetoric, while what is happening in people’s lives is going in exactly the opposite direction.”

Mr Clegg has drawn up a long charge sheet. He claimed Mr Cameron professed to care about social mobility while scrapping maintenance grants that enabled disadvantaged children to go to university; targeting help with childcare to better off families rather than those who need it most; reducing the incentive to work for people relying on state benefits; ditching child poverty targets; and cutting the schools’ budget and “Pupil Premium”, for children from poor families, in real terms.

He is not surprised that a Conservative government is acting like this, but angry because, he claimed, it pretends to be something it is not. “The reason I am speaking out is that I do care about the things we advocated in coalition as we balanced the books in the fairest possible way. They are being unpicked by the Conservatives,” he said.

 Mr Clegg lifted the lid on two revealing battles fought behind closed doors at the top of the Coalition. Before its final Budget, he proposed an expansion of childcare provision for two-year-olds from poor families, widely seen as the best way of boosting life chances. But Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne rejected the idea, admitting that “all we want to do is to shoot Labour’s fox” by offering 30 hours of free childcare for older children to trump Labour’s 25-hour pledge.

Similarly, when the Lib Dems pushed repeatedly in the last parliament for money to build social housing, the Prime Minister and Chancellor rebuffed them with the stark message: “All it does is produce more Labour voters.”

Moreover, the Tories took credit for Lib Dem ideas, notably their flagship policy of raising the personal tax allowance. Initially, Mr Clegg recalled, Mr Osborne demanded Lib Dem concessions in return for “your policy”. But when Sir Lynton Crosby, the Tories’ Australian election strategist arrived on the scene and realised the tax cuts were popular and fair, the Tories suddenly claimed the policy as their own and wrote the Libs Dems out of the script. “It was not honest,” he said. “But that’s politics.”

 It might sound like sour grapes from the man who admitted his party was “massacred” – its 57 MPs were reduced to just eight – but it is not. Surprisingly, Mr Clegg does not feel betrayed that his coalition partners ruthlessly targeted Lib Dem seats to win an unexpected majority.

Without bitterness, he said: “Politics is a brutal business. Those who live by the sword die by the sword. I don’t have much time for people who whinge or whine.”

Mr Clegg was naturally bruised by his party’s shattering defeat and friends say it took a complete break from politics last August to get over it. Although he has enthusiastically taken up causes such as drug law reform and educational inequality, the suspicion at Westminster is that the 49-year-old MP for Sheffield Hallam will seek fresh challenges after the 2020 election.

Mr Clegg disputes the thrust of the Lib Dem inquest into last year’s rout, which listed a catalogue of errors. He accepted that the report reflects the feelings inside his party, but insisted that the fundamental cause of the result was the decision to enter the Coalition in 2010 rather than a specific  slogan or policy – even the U-turn over university tuition fees.

He pointed out that progressive parties across Europe suffered a similar electoral disaster after being in coalition with the centre-right.

Mr Clegg interrupted my killer question: if he had had a crystal ball that saw just eight seats after the 2015 election, would he have still joined forces with the Tories? He accused his critics of “hindsight”, saying that difficult decisions when “you are between a rock and a hard place” must be made at the time, not with the benefit of “20/20 vision”.

He finds it difficult to imagine another coalition without a cast-iron guarantee of proportional representation – probably without a referendum. He insists his battered party will bounce back and can see a ray of hope on the horizon even in today’s one-party state.

“The party that should be most desperately in favour [of PR] is Labour. In my view, Labour cannot win power again, as long as the SNP dominates Scotland, without electoral reform. Labour has not twigged that yet,” he said.

He envisages a time when all the parties except the Tories back reform, making it possible to win a Commons vote. “The dam will eventually break. The Conservatives cannot unilaterally impose a blanket veto on constitutional change for their own ends,” he said. “Labour needs to wake up and smell the coffee.”

Mr Clegg’s regrets are too few mention. “I stand by my actions,” he said. “I take responsibility for the things that went wrong on my watch. I took the decisions I took – some good, some bad. I tried to make the right judgements for the right motives in the circumstances in which I found myself.”

Some big points out of that, especially how the Lib Dems wanted to increase social housing but Osborne and Hameron vetoed it on the basis of it increasing possible votes for Labour.

The whole system stinks to high heaven with these blue c*nts in charge.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

If the Lib Dems actually give a shit about the country and give a shit about the people (like they pretend) then they should join up with Labour and make a party that actually looking after the interests of the majority and not the minority.

[MichaelA]

Clegg can say whatever he likes, but he's a Tory enabler, and he can GGTF.

[Robinred]

Really good talk with Clegg in the Indy on his role in the coalition and how the Tories effectively bend over every poor citizen of this country.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nick-clegg-accuses-conservatives-of-rigging-the-rules-in-attempt-to-create-one-party-state-a6896086.html

Some big points out of that, especially how the Lib Dems wanted to increase social housing but Osborne and Hameron vetoed it on the basis of it increasing possible votes for Labour.

The whole system stinks to high heaven with these blue c*nts in charge.

I read that in this morning's iPaper.

For me the most thought-provoking thing in it is the notion that P.R would actually be of greatest benefit to the Labour Party, given Scotland's ditching of it's Labour voting history. The new boundary changes are another factor.

[Red Beret]

Clegg can fuck off.  He dropped his pants and bent over for the pig fucker often enough in the coalition.  Only his own fucking delusions in his own grandeur kept him from realising this scenario which to everybody else was fucking inevitable.  He had his chance to do something about this but was too busy licking Cameron's ball sack to notice.

[John C]

 “The reason I am speaking out is that I do care about the things we advocated in coalition as we balanced the books in the fairest possible way. They are being unpicked by the Conservatives,” he said.

Did he fuck, the twat. Had Liverpool received the same proportion of cuts as the rest of the country we'd be £80m better off now.
Those fuckers aided rob £156m out of our community since 2010. It's staggering. £156m gone from local services. Thanks Mr Clegg, you're such a genuine person.

And there's a liklihood of just under another £100m being cut before 2020.

[Les Willis]

After the re-election of Jeremy Corbyn, this is an opportunity for the Lib Dems to make a grab for the more right leaning and centrist members of the Labour Party. Whether they grab this opportunity or not is in their hands. Farron isn't that inspiring, but he does at least sit on the left side of the Liberal Democrats, so his heart is in the right place.

Personally speaking , now that Labour have shifted unequivocally to the left, the Lib Dems will have my vote for the forseeable future. It's a far cry from the 1997 election when I was absolutely elated to have a Labour Government. How times change.

[Les Willis]

Someone should change the title of the thread to the Lib Dems are slightly less f*cked thread

[Red Beret]

Someone should change the title of the thread to the Lib Dems are slightly less f*cked thread

Done!

Think this thread might become more significant in the near future.

[Libertine]

It's certainly been a good few months for the party. Great results in the local and European elections, doubled their support in the polls have increased their number of MPs by more than half - by election win and defections from three ex-Labour and two ex-Tories. There are rumours that there will be a few more defections announced at the conference too. And come the election, you'd expect dozens of more seats to be in play.

[Red Beret]

They could conceivably be around the 30 MP mark, depending on election variables.  9 years since Clegg and we're depending on this lot.