Topic: Round Table: Liverpool 1 - 0 Southampton

[harrythered]

You're right about Sterling, although it doesn't show that much does it? Think its because he really is a proper talent, and will be brilliant. But, he does need to be rested, as we really don't need a Jack Wilshere-esque situation.
Lucas was so strong defensively, it really is like having 2 or 3 defensive midfielders when he is in there. Even if his passing was a bit off, his crucial tackles, and the confidence it clearly gives the rest of the team is a huge benefit. Hopefully he will stay fit, and get back to the top of his game, and we'll get back to winning consistently.
I also am beginning to think that Johnson is one of our best players. He is so consistently good, and criminally underrated by the rest of the league. He can pass, he can tackle, he can dribble, he can shoot. one of the best full backs around.
I think Rodgers made the right move in bringing Allen off when he did. It was great seeing him in a forward position for once, but he has been playing a lot recently, certainly in need of less minutes. Henderson did well when he came on, kept the ball ticking.
Overall it was a really solid performance, especially the first half. We just need to put them away really, and when (or of) that starts happening, real progress will be made. 

[stockdam]

Sterling - is it me or is he starting to look a little jaded?

I thought he was fine. Not his best game but that doesn't make him jaded. The manager and coaching staff will know if he needs a rest but he's young and he'll bounce back.

Suarez - He's just terrifyingly good isn't he?

He's the most exciting player in the EPL; a joy to watch.
We'll have to adapt without him in the next game. I'm not sure whether I'd stick on Yesil or Morgan or play Shelvey up front along with Gerrard.

Lucas - Having a proper DM really just changes the way a midfield plays.

He's not really a DM in my mind. He's a total midfielder who is good at sitting in front of the defence but who also makes himself free to keep an attack moving. He passes quickly and effortlessly. He looked like he hadn't been out for so long. I expect him to start being a strong candidate for MOTM.

Enrique - Left back or Left Wing?

Either. He finds Suarez better than anyone else and my preference is to see him on the left wing but I'm happy when he's LB also.


Shelvey - Can't decide whether he was good today or not.

He was fine. He adds a bit of drive in midfield and isn't afraid of taking shots.


Southampton - Poor side or made to look poor?

Well they've had a decent run of results so I'd prefer to say that they were made to look average. There aren't any poor teams in the EPL but they are one of the weaker sides. Lambert is a good strong player.

Coates - His stock fell suddenly.

I'm not sure that he has the speed or either foot or mind. A good player but hasn't been able to displace either Agger or Skrtel.

[Vulmea]

Carragher played there against United last season and looked totally lost. He was first to be subbed. Luckily United were weak in CM themselves and didn't punish us.

Carragher's out of his comfort zone when he's more than 25 yards from goal because he's an out-and-out defender. Looked what happened with Lukaku on the opening day, he hasn't got the strength to win those battles, let alone the speed.

You can't neglect the fitness aspect either. It's not physically exerting to play centre half. It's the one outfield position that doesn't require high stamina.

yes, i was there and I said as much - he played further forward leaving a gap between himself and the back four - whether that was the plan I'm not sure but it was very odd

I dont know about 'out of his comfort zone' he's played there for England (and perfomed as expected - slow, methodical) he's played right across the back four and he generally played in midfield until he was about 20.....if the choice was  a back three and switch the system or keep the system but play Carra in front of the back two - I'd have thought Rodgers would have considered it before now which is why I said I've been surprised......one of the reasons BR is managing one of the best teams in the world and I'm not I guess.

[Tony19:6]

Sterling Not as effective as he has been but still an outstanding talent. Thought the same of Wisdom a few games back but he came storming back the next match

Suarez - Clearly our best player nowadays, the amount of nutmegs this lad does is ridiculous. We won't half miss the lad next week

Lucas - Had a solid game, helped provide the shape and balance the team has lacked. Surprised he was kept on for 80+ mins.

Enrique - Left back or Left Wing? Left back for me.

Shelvey - Indifferent performance. Great shot against the inside of the post, but didn't look comfortable for the majority of the game.

Allen - Solid game. Looked a little mentally tired mind in what is a better position for him, would benefit from a break imo, he will get better and better this lad.

Gerrard Good game, particularly in the first half when the team looked much better

Coates - Not sure what's going on there.

Southampton Think they have been on a bit of a run of late, so came into the match being on the up. Was looking forward to watching Gaston, thought he looked a class apart skilful, quick feet - he wont stay there long.
For me though Lambert was there biggest threat, won a lot in the air and that snapshot he took, the one where Lucas misjudged the flight, at the end of the first half nearly gave me kittens. Think Pepe was going to leave it only to change his mind last minute.

Overall a deserved win, should have been by more, but have to settle for that outstanding header from DAgger. But why oh why did we drop off so much in the 2nd half and nearly let them back in it?

[Filler.]

The inclusion of Lucas allowed Allen to play slightly higher which may have unsettled him, he didn't really impact the game and looked weak on the ball at times. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't watched it back again, but was he a bit lost??

I thought the opposite. I only watched it 'as live' on a stream - a good one for once - and thought that Lucas's involvement in the game gave him that bit of freedom. Stuart Hall... the venerable Stuart Hall, gave mention to Allen's game as being pretty poor overall on 5Live, going on to say that he was a poor shadow of the player he was at Swansea, or words to that effect. I probably need to watch the game again, but I thought he looked relieved.

For this game I'm focussing on the first half - as that's where the juice of it lies for me. We do need to come out better tho for the second... I don't see us doing that as well as we once did. But I thought Allen, and Gerrard, looked far happier further forward.

For Allen... read Sahin for me. With Lucas. Henderson too... with Lucas. Lucas is so bloody important... worryingly so really.


I reckon Yorky will be proved wrong about whether Shelvey will start against West Ham tho... he could well go up front again. I see something in him up front tho. As a stop gap, and as a way of trying to work out what or where he's going to play, (as I really don't have a clue) - there could be some joy there - what choice do we have?. He did show some really good touches in and around the middle of the park - some good decisions, but again, found it a bit worrying that he was even deployed 'out wide' when we have Aissadi, Downing and Cole - that's a double edged comment. I keep calling Shelvey the man with thick ankles - much like my own two year old who's destined to become a central defender for his pub team in the classic English style.


Edit: as an aside...would love to see a Lucas, Sahin and Suso three. Maybe that will be saved for later.

[lukeb1981]

Just watched it back again , thought Pepe was really back to his best yesterday, commanded his area and his distribution was top notch.
Lucas Jesus Christ we have missed him, he was outstanding considering it was his first game in months.
Watching it back Shelvey and Allen were poor ,the 2 of them need to up their game ,they have been woeful for a month or two now, yes Shelvey hits the odd nice pass and thunder shot but his all round game is sloppy and half arsed, not really good enough if Brendan has top 4 aspirations to have two of your midfield under par.
Roll on January and we get a few in and Borini back some of the lads look a bit tired and if we don't rotate it will kill us in the run in.

[n00bert]

Sterling - I've been saying it for a couple of weeks now. Lad looks a bit tired and more mentally than physically. He has done well and he will have some good moments but he's not razor sharp. Could do with a couple of games out post West Ham.

Suarez - excellent as always. Can't imagine being a defender and having to mark him. Never really stands still and drifting across the front three positions really keeps defenders on their toes. One thing I would like him to do a bit more off is to get into the six yard box or around the penalty spot when the ball gets out wide. He does tend to pull away to the edge of the box at times which doesn't benefit anyone IMO.

Lucas - imperious for the most part. Will take a couple more weeks for him to get back to full fighting fitness at which point he will just be a monster. Provided the cover for both Agger and Skrtel to move forward, broke up and slowed down opposition play very nicely, got into those essential defensive positions to help out at the back when we were up against it.

Enrique - LW for me. His defensive attributes, while strong, doesn't make him good enough to be a LB. He excels when he has good cover behind him playing further up the field and he in turns provides excellent cover for an overlapping fullback. Examplified, IMO, by the Chelsea game when Johnson played behind him.

Shelvey - I agree, he had one of those games. I think for the most part he was solid and did the job well. He has a good sense of when to get in the box. I believe he is the one being groomed to take on the Steven Gerrard position when the time comes. But yes, he did fuck a couple of things up and it was not a flawless performance by any means. Probably didn't suit him to be playing on the left because he neither has the pace or the trickery to get on the outside.

Allen - looked solid and did what was asked of him. He, like Sterling, could do with a bit of a break and thankfully we have a bit more cover in this position than anywhere else on the field. Still did the simple things well and it's good to see him play higher up the field. Passing was incisive and you can see he has the vision to spot a defence splitting pass. Playing so high up may be something a little foreign to him at this point so may take a game or two to get back into the swing of things.

Gerrard - the best we've seen him in a red shirt this season IMO, especailly the first half. Got into the right areas, played some stunning passes, pressured from the front, tackled well etc. Second half was more pedestrian, tried to force the play a few times but didn't come off. Said previously that I'd have taken him off for Hendo or Sahin for more stability in midfield.

Coates - I don't know what's going on with him but would definitely expect that he be the next CB that we bring in. Love Carra but would really like to get the most out of Seb.

Southampton - a bit of both actually. The time wasting by the keeper in the first half showed that they were not interested in playing for a win. That said, we did take the game to them much more than I was expecting us to.  There have been times where we would have dropped off and played with no intensity despite the opposition team sitting so deep.  Seemed like we were purposeful with our closing down and squeezing the space which in turn caused them to just hand possession back to us. That said, Gaston Ramires looks like a pretty decent player for them.

[Torpedo Tommy]

Another game that could have (and by many was) predicted before kick off.  Plenty of the ball, plenty of chances but a 1-0 win.

Personal opinion?  3 points is 3 points.  Happy enough to win our next 5 1-0 too.

I think we played some excellent stuff in the first half but we must learn how to pass the easy ball.  Johnson had so much space on the right it was untrue but we kept resorting to a ball into a congested area of the field.

So good to see Lucas back - outstanding 80+ minutes from the lad too.  Top notch.  Our full backs were very good too on Saturday offering so much going forward.

Pointless referring to the missed chances so won't rattle on about the need for reinforcements in attack

The atmosphere - simply fucking awful.  Embarrassing at times.

Still - 3 points.  Onwards and upwards

[John C]

Their keeper kept spilling the ball after shots, but none of our players seems to gamble on these things.

I only recall it happening once from an Enrique shot and to be fair to Suarez he tried but his starting position was behind a Southampton player so he was slightly impeded. However, player presence in the box has been an issue unresolved this season. We've seen Enrique and Shelvey both take a chance but fluff better ones.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

A game that will mainly be remembered for Lucas coming back.

His presence transforms the team even with his rustiness - we are under much less pressure at the back and retain possession better to launch attacks another 20 yards up the pitch. Despite our myriad chances there's a strong possibility we would have drawn that match without him.

Am glad to see we had more runners to the box although I still don't think we are working hard enough to close down on the goal itself - especially with a keeper who seemed to spill so many shots.

Sterling is a little off the boil - Enrique looks as though he is really enjoying his football right now and I'm not sure which of the back line offers the biggest offensive threat right now (including Pepe's distribution).

Good game by Gerrard and more proof we have to manage hike carefully. Shelvey was wasteful and looks as though he could do with a goal.

Happy to take the three points - lets rinse and repeat.

[John C]

I thought the opposite. I only watched it 'as live' on a stream - a good one for once -

Sometimes a good stream affords you a better view of the game anyway mate 


There's so many different angles from which to watch a game of footy. Often you get confirmation of your thoughts when someone behind you shouts at a player just when you'd thought the same.


However, and many posters will be shocked, not all match going fans get their facts right. Having witnessed ref Michael Oliver give Liverpool very little, some fella stood up and berated the 11 stone official with "are you blind you fucking fat c*nt, you fat fucking c*nt". There wasn't a pick in him

[jckliew]

Lucas......

Watching the whole game........part from Luis, we lack the cutting edge from midfield.
While its good we keep the ball, it seems the threat from midfeilders is pretty non existent
in as far as goal threats are concerned.
It does seem that we are a one goal-man team- Luis.
Diame and Micchu had me drooling over the weekend.....

[robgomm]

I thought Shelvey was mixed: some excellent passes, driving runs and general desire to get into the box (boy do we need this) with a hell of an effort hitting the post. Drawback was his first touch costing him a few opportunities to get on the ball and some general carelessness.

He's not a tidy player yet, he's very much about the higher risk, higher action play. I don't think he was inept at all but he's got to find some consistency or he won't keep a place in the team. Not sure we'll see the best of him for a while, he's not near his physical or mental peak yet.

[woof]

Our attack still looks blunt, however I think that will be the case until January when we get some additions to help Suarez.

Imagine what might have happened if we had someone like RVP putting those chances away. We'd surely be top 4 material.

[Fromola]

yes, i was there and I said as much - he played further forward leaving a gap between himself and the back four - whether that was the plan I'm not sure but it was very odd

I dont know about 'out of his comfort zone' he's played there for England (and perfomed as expected - slow, methodical) he's played right across the back four and he generally played in midfield until he was about 20.....if the choice was  a back three and switch the system or keep the system but play Carra in front of the back two - I'd have thought Rodgers would have considered it before now which is why I said I've been surprised......one of the reasons BR is managing one of the best teams in the world and I'm not I guess.

In his 20s, though. And in his 20s Carragher was a lot more mobile and capable than he is now since his legs have slowed and he's about to turn 35.

At that time he was a top-drawer centre half. Now, I don't think he's good enough to play centre half either, let alone in midfield. Too much of his game has just gone, naturally with age. He might wing it for another 60 in midfield - like the United game - but I don't think he could last 90 minutes in there without really struggling fitness wise in the last quarter.

[jaffod]

I only recall it happening once from an Enrique shot and to be fair to Suarez he tried but his starting position was behind a Southampton player so he was slightly impeded. However, player presence in the box has been an issue unresolved this season. We've seen Enrique and Shelvey both take a chance but fluff better ones.

3 times he spilled shots back into his 6 yard box. Dirk would have taken the match ball home.

[Fromola]

How good were some of Suarez's through balls? There was one in the first half to Shelvey (I think he miscontrolled in the build-up to his crossbar shot) and one in the second half that someone else didn't take advantage of. World class they were.

If we had better finishers Suarez's assist number would be about as high as his goals.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Sterling: I like that he works so hard defensively, but I don´t think he looks like the Sterling from early in the season when he ran at people, taking on defenders. Maybe they are playing differently against him so the opportunities to get them one on one aren´t there as much.

Lucas: Gave me a warm fuzzy feeling seeing him on the pitch. Passing was lacking somewhat, but that´s totally understandable. Thought his presence made us more fluid. Thought we won the ball earlier due to his fantastic positioning and reading of the game.

Shelvey: I agree 100 % with the OP.

I think we´ve generally have had problems maintaining our quality throughout games. One half is often very good and the other mediocre. I feel we closed that gap to some extent on Saturday. First half was excellent and I was expecting a massive drop off in the 2nd, but that didn´t materialize. Although it wasn´t as good as the first, it was quite good. That was encouraging to me. Otherwise it was the same ols story wit our chance wasting. If we had crashed the net when the shot was on we would have tapped in at least two more.

Worried about the weekend with no Suarez. Hopefully someone else steps up and ceases the opportunity.

[sambhi92]

Sterling - Did look tired but still had a good game, maybe didnt reach the heights of previous games but still good.

Suarez - Same old really, too good for everyone else, no point in saying more.

Lucas - Great to see him back, my god we've missed this bastard, looked a little rusty in his passing, but nothing to worry about there that'll come with more games, but his work rate was fantastic.

Enrique - I'd say LB for me, only because i think we can play other players in LW so that shouldnt really be an issue, with him at LB it gives us abit more defensive stability

Shelvey - I thought he played well, had a few chances maybe could have done better, but nothing wrong with his performance, will get better with more games playing in that position 

Allen - looked Really good in that game, went forward much more and played more attacking passing, i dont mind the side to side passes but in this game it defo more attack minded.

Gerrard - Played very well, passing was great, shooting wasnt so, but hes allowed to miss a few, really good to see him playing well.

Coates - Nothing he can do, put current defense is doing great, you cant change that, but he's only young and he will get his chance when it comes, just unlucky. 

Southampton - I think they came looking for a point but in the second they gave it ago which is fair to them, but really played them off the park, i'd be shocked if we didnt win that.

[Frizzo]

Funny to think I reckon Lucas could've had the exact same game in his first couple of seasons and would've been slammed for his errant passing.

Whereas now he's a fan favourite people focus on the positives rather than the negatives.

Don't get me wrong, his game was fantastic, but there's a huge scope for improvement. Can't wait to see him get back to full fitness. My favourite player.

[west_london_red]

Funny to think I reckon Lucas could've had the exact same game in his first couple of seasons and would've been slammed for his errant passing.

Whereas now he's a fan favourite people focus on the positives rather than the negatives.

Don't get me wrong, his game was fantastic, but there's a huge scope for improvement. Can't wait to see him get back to full fitness. My favourite player.

To be fair his passing over the last 2 years has been pretty good, nothing outstanding (hes not Xabi Alonso) but short, crips passing that keeps the momentum of the team going. Hes been out for the best part of a year, gotta give him a couple of games to get back but I have no doubt he will.

[RedMichelFerri]

Sterling - I agree he looked a bit Jaded in between the game but he always shows that burst of energy when he sees opportunities, balls in channels, space. Really impressed with his technique, Game intelligence and Movement. We have a player on our hands and hopefully we sort the contract soon.

Lucas - What a difference he makes to this team. The way he effortlessly swans the pitch is a joy to watch. His mere presence ignited the confidence in players and they were attacking without any fear of getting caught on the break. Even Agger and Skertel looks so much confident on ball when he is in front of them. He always makes himself available for pass or makes movement which opens up space for others. It was evident the way he was creating spaces for center backs when opposition tried to press. Such a elegant, intelligent player and we are really lucky to have him.

Luis - What can you say about him, there is no stopping him and not a games goes by when he alone makes fool of entire opposition team on at least 5-10 occasions in a games with his nutmegs. On Everton forum, lot of them call him on trick pony. But by god it doesn't look like any defender in this league will be able to find out that trick in next decade. Such a clever player and some of the balls he played showed amazing vision. Even Alonso/Gerrard in their prime would have been proud of his passes.

Gerrard - Looked energetic and more dangerous when playing in attacking positions.

Allen - The guy can control a ball and turn 360 degrees on a match box. I am really interested to see how he fairs in advanced position in future. The guy has close control, turning ability and decent vision. He'll greatly help out attacking play in coming games.

Reina-Agger-Skertel - What a partnership they have formed. We look very confident on ball and are able to play it from back. Negligible hoofing and thus not giving ball to opposition that easily. It looks so elegant when Agger glides the pitch in full flow and opposition don't know who should track him. It also opens up lot of options in middle.

Johnson/Enrique - I don't care what anyone says but Jonhson for me is as good as Alves. The guy is pure intelligent footballer and awesome Athlete. Enrique did surprised me with his displays in recent weeks. I was guilty of calling him dumb footballer with power and pace. but suddenly he has showed lot of intelligence in his play (still he can improve). Also looks like he and Suarez has great understanding between them.

Glad with the 3 points and I am encouraged with our display against Spurs and Southampton. Long it may continue.

[Fuzion6]

As has been the case a number of times this season, it really was a game where LFC were unable to put a top performance in for 90 minutes, but for 45 minutes (the first half this time as opposed to other games where it has been the second half) we really showed up.

Thought the first half was outstanding - we pressed Southampton into their half and played at a decent tempo. What I really liked seeing was the movement upfront - Shelvey, Suarez and Sterling were constantly moving and switching positions. In fact if you look at the FourFourTwo stats board you can see that the average influential position of all 3 was very central and near each other. I personally think for the 433 to work we need our front players a lot closer together and this was certainly the case. Second half we seemed to retreat 5-10 yards and we weren't able to press as much until Henderson came on. Although overall our play was good - I don't think we created many/enough clear cut chances and the work in the final third was still distinctly average. Taking the some of the individual themes/topics in turn:

Lucas - fantastic. I could not believe how easily he adapted to being back in a Premiership game. His presence and positioning is something else and he really is one of the top defensive midfielders in the world. Even if doesn't quite regain the athleticism he had prior to the knee injury, Lucas' intelligence and ability is such he could have a long career as an "Emerson" type of DM. One caveat is that other than Gaston Ramirez, Southampton don't play in between the lines much and so Lucas will have harder challenges.

Joe Allen - When he first arrived at the club I was pretty excited and his first performances confirmed the slick passing and positioning he has. However I personally think he has regressed and I don't think he is giving much to the team right now. Other than the nice one-two with Suarez in the box, I don't think Allen contributed at all going forward and he physically seems very tired, giving away silly free kicks and losing possession. I have to say overall he may be a better player than Henderson, but I do not think he gives that much more to the team than Henderson does and the 15mn should have been better spent elsewhere (such as a proper DM to sub for Lucas).

Gerrard - That should keep the critics quiet for a while. It is clear he can't keep playing multiple matches within a week but he can still put performances in especially when playing more advanced and direct as he did on Saturday.

Shelvey - Drifted in and out but his technique as evidenced by his post hitting shot is outstanding. I actually think wide forward is Shelvey's best position as I'm convinced he can be a real goalscorer (as he showed in his loan spell at Blackpool). At this stage I prefer Shelvey over Suso in that position and he gives more defensively also.

Sterling - Lad needs a break, he would never have played at this intense level before both in matches and training and he certainly will be having some level of fatigue as his body will not be used to the work it is being put through. The contract situation may be playing on his mind as well - there is a reason why he has left twitter. I would like to see him a bit more direct and taking players on...I feel he plays bit too much within the system at the moment. It reflects on Rodgers' comments early in the season when he said "When I got here all Raheem could do was take players on, now he is much better tactically and has more to his game" - seems to be Raheem is doing too much of the latter and not enough of the former.

[helmboy_nige]

Sterling - Not sure if the problem was him being jaded or simply that the opposition paid him very careful attention.  He often had two Southampton players on him in a flash.  He had a poor game compared to how he's been since he burst onto the scene, but then he was due one.  His problem is the same as the rest of the teams in that he doesn't know what to do in the final third.  I'd rest him for Udinese but think he has to start against West Ham with Suarez out.

Suarez - Awesome as always.  The booking was a real pain as it just felt like one that could have been avoided.  I'd maybe consider Shelvey or even Sterling in his position against West Ham.

Lucas - The whole midfield was different and for the first time since Rodgers arrived I can see the real power in the system he's implementing.  With Lucas holding the fort down, Allen, Gerrard, Shelvey and Sterling were all shifting positions constantly.  Seeing Allen further up the pitch was great as well.  Lucas had better stay fit now until 2020 or we're done for!

Enrique - Left back or Left Wing?  Erm... I'd say left wing, if only because he looks so much more dangerous.

Shelvey - Thought he had a really poor game, but he gets a pass cause he's still a kid.  He made some superb forward passes and that shot off the post was a monster.  But his simple game was no where to be seen.  I'd like to see him more in the forward positions as he does remind me of Gerrard in that I think he lacks the tactical discipline for the central roles in midfield.  Shelvey is most useful in attack, so lets keep him there.

Southampton - Poor.  Really poor.  Despite the fact we were all bricking ourselves throughout the second half, they really did nothing, despite our best efforts at passing the ball to them with every opportunity.  Made me wonder what would happen if a good team had been gifted those misplaced passes in our defensive third.

Coates - Feel sorry for him.  His stock seems to have disappeared completely and I held out real hopes.

Anyway, a win is a win and while I do think a few of the younger lad had pretty weak games (Shelvey/Sterling) there is no need to panic over that as they are still learning their trade and having a lot of pressure put onto them.

As for West Ham, I'd say a draw would be a surprise.  This has got defeat written all over it for us, with them riding high after beating Chelsea and us with no strikers.  Hope I'm wrong, but I'd argue that a draw would be a good result for us.

[Fat Scouser]

Just goes to show, square pegs are best in square holes. And I think Lucas coming back, and allowing Brendan that option, made all the difference. And the other big difference... more football and less philosophy. Funnily enough, reacting to circumstances works better than plotting it out on a white board.

[west_london_red]

Just goes to show, square pegs are best in square holes. And I think Lucas coming back, and allowing Brendan that option, made all the difference. And the other big difference... more football and less philosophy. Funnily enough, reacting to circumstances works better than plotting it out on a white board.

[fowlermagic]

Sterling is a lovely little talent to have and I will be curious to see how he fits in when we bring on one if not two attacking players the next two transfer windows plus Borini comes back. The squad will be a lot better for it as our attacking options are thin and I can only see benefits for the young lad with others who can carry / score for the team.


Suarez is also in the same boat as the blend of him with others coming in will be one to watch. Keep on doing what he is doing and I think once he knows he can lay off to better players who can put away chances then we will see huge benfits from it.

Lovely to see Lucas back as we saw how the team pattern changed straight away. hardly one of he is best games ever but his natural tendenices to cover for others left SG loose on the Saints. I thought Allen was poor enough again but with Lucas back and god hopes SG back to something like he can play Allen will recapture his Sept form.

Enrique is a beast and again provided the directness this team has so sadly lacked in times. He may resemble a bull in the china shop with his brain farts but he is willing to get into the china shop while others have fallen way short of what they were brought here to do. What a pleasure to see the team get 4, 5 and more bodies into the box and that allowed us to get those balls in behind the Saints. Tic tac football with a purpose ...a bloody pleasure to watch at times.

[Fat Scouser]

And he's only working out his route from the player's entrance to the Albert.

[rossipersempre]

... more football and less philosophy.

Should be stickied up at Melwood, that.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Should be stickied up at Melwood, that.

Yes but ironically that in itself would be a philosophy so would defeat the point.

[Yorkykopite]

Yes but ironically that in itself would be a philosophy so would defeat the point.

Rossi would rather have the players reading stuff than out on the training field kicking balls around.

[b_joseph]

Funnily enough, reacting to circumstances works better than plotting it out on a white board.

Only if you have a base plan beforehand though. If you just go out there a free wheel, more often than not, you're going to be lost...especially when you dont have an overwhelming amount of talent to compensate for it.

Brendans philosophy is still there, like he said, a player like Lucas allows us to exact what he wants us to do more effectively. Which most folks thought would be the case anyway.

[gandalf50]

Overall though, there is something that has become clear to me lately.

Don`t suppose you want to expand on the last comment?

[Fat Scouser]

Only if you have a base plan beforehand though.

He's got over 50 years as his base plan. Shankly introduced pass and move in 1959/60. It's a very simple game, as the great man said.

I watched the big match revisited this morning, Liverpool v Arsenal, 1979. We absolutely slaughtered them. They were a good side, but barely got out of their own half. Anfield was a Paddy Field, puddles, more sand than Southport beach, pot holes and the odd blade of grass. We won 3 - 0. All the goals came from simple give and go, with the ball kept on the deck.

I'd say Brendan's got a very good base to work from. We're used to that sort of football, and, even in these times, we're loyal and patient... ask Rafa. So, although, I'm not having a dig at Brendan, I am sort of tired of hearing all about the philosophy, New Liverpool, and this "group," of players. 

[gandalf50]

Marvellous result. Absolutely made up we picked up the three points.

Although I wouldn't say it was a vintage performance - the three points are the most important thing. I think the play was a bit disjointed but we had three great pieces of skill to hit the woodwork twice and finally score. Lucas looked great and Allen seemed more comfortable not facing 2, 3 or 4 players all game as he's been having to do most games. Gerrard looked better forward and it was nice to see the win.

More of the same required and if we can work out how to put in a great performance and also win then that'll be absolutely brilliant.

I can't believe we actually won. Hopefully this will instil some confidence in the league and wins will become more common than they are at present. 3 POINTS!! YEAH!!

Judging by your post, in the after match thread, you are really pissed off with the club at the minute.

[b_joseph]

He's got over 50 years as his base plan. Shankly introduced pass and move in 1959/60. It's a very simple game, as the great man said.

I watched the big match revisited this morning, Liverpool v Arsenal, 1979. We absolutely slaughtered them. They were a good side, but barely got out of their own half. Anfield was a Paddy Field, puddles, more sand than Southport beach, pot holes and the odd blade of grass. We won 3 - 0. All the goals came from simple give and go, with the ball kept on the deck.

I'd say Brendan's got a very good base to work from. We're used to that sort of football, and, even in these times, we're loyal and patient... ask Rafa. So, although, I'm not having a dig at Brendan, I am sort of tired of hearing all about the philosophy, New Liverpool, and this "group," of players. 

I agree with what you are saying..especially the end line.

But you used 1979 and the caliber of team we had back then was just night and day to what we have now ( Those guys would be excused for thinking 2nd place was a disgrace...these days, most of the lads of my age would think 2nd place is a bottle opening position ). Shankly introduced something that stuck for a very long time and allowed us to enjoy continued success as a club for a good number of years.
That something may still be with us in memory but it is no longer present when we watch our team and hasnt been present for a long time. Even Rafa had a different style to the pass-move directive that was this football club for many years...Rafa's style was a great one though, dont get me wrong.

So yes, the base that the club is built on is there but the ability to put it out there for the world to see on a game to game basis isnt. So the emphasis on bringing it back will be a strong one until it is brought back and becomes 2nd nature again.

[Fat Scouser]

So the emphasis on bringing it back will be a strong one until it is brought back and becomes 2nd nature again.

But that's me point, mate... we aren't bringing it back. Well, we weren't supposed to be. We were supposed to be aiming for the Barcelona method. But, it seems to me, anyway, when we stop fannying around with the ball, and play it more simply, while still retaining it, we get better performances and results.

I'm not playing footy manager. Brendan has obviously forgot more about the game than I'll ever learn. And on a number of occasions - recently - he's said the same thing about us playing too many passes. And I agree with him on that.

As for the players, well, yes. That 79 team was something to watch. But let's not pretend he's got a group of donkies at his disposal.

[lukeb1981]

On Sterling,if you look at our recent games the opposition have 2-3 players on him when he gets the ball ,we need to be clever here and support him better because if that many players are on him there are gaps somewhere else to be exploited,the lad doesn't have the power of Jose just to bull doze through them(Jose is going to score a screamer at some stage with them runs),pity that ball to Gerrard at the end didnt come off it was very clever play.

[Mighty_Red]

A very good performance on sat, but still with the same old problems - we often mess up the final ball, or we mess up the shot. All of which meant that an easy 3/4-0 win became a nervy 1-0.

Lots of people posting about Sterling & Shelvey, but this is merely highlighting our lack of options in the squad. The fact is, we should not be relying on these kids to produce the goods for us - we have to let them grow and develop properly. Sterling is struggling a bit physically and is resorting to fouling to get the ball back, so we need to help him out.

Obviously, our problem is we don't have much else - Assaidi is in a similar position that he is still learning, and Downing simply isn't doing enough. These problems need to be sorted in January or the players will burn out

[Nessy76]

Sterling - no lad that age should be playing every week in the Premier League, regardless of form. We seriously lack options at the moment, so he'll probably keep playing until January at least. Let's just hope we don't come to regret that in future years.

Carragher - no mystery for me, a late sub needed, 1-0 up, opposition not really causing too many problems for the defence, bring on a wise old head to run the game in the middle. Doesn't mean he's second choice DM or anything of the sort, far as I can see, just that he's an experienced option who can advise the young lads around him how to see out the match - even if he doesn't get a touch. Coates doesn't offer any of that, and it was what was needed. I do agree that SC needs more exposure though, there's a hell of a good player in there, but he needs games.

Lucas - not much left to be said here, I've always rated the lad (and I'll always mention it!) and now surely everyone can see what he brings to the side in terms of balance and shape. Allen should be one of the beneficiaries, but that relationship will take time, Joe looked a bit out of sorts today as a result of his "new" role, but as it's basically the one he played at Swansea, he should settle back into it just fine.