Author Topic: Anyone here ever been to prison?  (Read 68881 times)

Offline bruffell06

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #480 on: December 11, 2013, 02:10:33 pm »
http://www.buzzfeed.com/scottbuzz/passing-the-note-is-the-bang-how-a-war-hero-became-a-serial

Brilliant story about one of my buddies. Our bands played a ton of shows together whenever I'd go over to his place, it was an absolute mess. Like he was living out some sort of twisted Pete Doherty fantasy, while in reality the bloke was seriously hurting. We've lost touch as his band started deteriorating and they stopped gigging out as much, so I wasn't in touch when he started doing bank jobs. Everyone knew about him getting nicked obviously as it's a small town, but even knowing him as a person this is eye opening.

Really eye opening read so thanks for that

You cant even begin to imagine how much the stuff you seen in a war could fuck your head up

Offline TomMorganLittle

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #481 on: December 11, 2013, 04:58:15 pm »
Very interesting thread. Put's me off going to prison.
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Offline Sir Harvest Fields

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #482 on: December 11, 2013, 05:11:13 pm »
Very interesting thread. Put's me off going to prison.


Hmmmmm. Weird way to put it. You mean you dont want to get caught committing crime then?
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Offline ewok-red

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #483 on: December 11, 2013, 05:30:16 pm »
is Yasar still around? was expecting more experiences being shared...
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Offline Samie

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #484 on: December 11, 2013, 05:32:21 pm »
is Yasar still around? was expecting more experiences being shared...

Last active on the 9th of November.

Offline TomMorganLittle

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #485 on: December 12, 2013, 09:41:47 am »

Hmmmmm. Weird way to put it. You mean you dont want to get caught committing crime then?

Maybe I didn't put my point accross very well. I've never been arrested and I'm against crime. This thread makes me want to stay on the right side of the law and not do anything that would risk being put in jail.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 11:44:38 am by TomMorganLittle »
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Offline BigAl24

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #486 on: December 13, 2013, 01:08:51 pm »
Last active on the 9th of November.

To be fair to the lad, he's probably quite busy with his new vagina towel business.
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Offline dundeered

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #487 on: December 13, 2013, 09:55:53 pm »
Never been in prison , but have been to prison as they used to buy meat from me , been in peterhead , perth , glenochil , barlinnie ..... The worst was peterhead for just the feeling of the people they had in there , i was in corton vale womans prison but was only allowed in when they were in lock down incase i got raped :) .

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #488 on: December 13, 2013, 11:10:01 pm »
http://www.buzzfeed.com/scottbuzz/passing-the-note-is-the-bang-how-a-war-hero-became-a-serial


Intense read.  The horrors he must have witnessed would've been bad enough to screw anyone up.  To get no help on his return and the fact he was basically just dumped back on civvie st by his own government with fuck all help is just awful.

Hope he's found some inner peace now.
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Offline ewok-red

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #489 on: December 17, 2013, 09:53:54 pm »
To be fair to the lad, he's probably quite busy with his new vagina towel business.

Will check the Dragons Den website
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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #490 on: December 18, 2013, 12:58:43 pm »
Young, first offence and more than likely caught before any real harm has been done to anyone. I think he'd of been better off with a 2 year suspended sentence, that's 2 years to get yourself sorted. Forced to stay out of trouble, distance yourself from the culture that got you in trouble in the first place, make something of yourself.
As it is he's got 9 months company with proper criminals, he'll see repeat offenders get out and literally be back inside within the same week. He'll come out with no Job, possibly no where to live, no money, prospects etc
Crime should be punished but prison is not always the best option to ensure that long term certain people don't go on to commit further offences, in fact I'd say from first hand experience that it can be counter productive and often lead to people ending up worse.




Important words there from an ITK.

People like Tomo, who can express themselves and have been through the system, could be perfect mentors for a group of at risk youth already in such a program. 

The right people, the right way, would be worth their weight in gold, imo.

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Offline Malaysian Kopite

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #491 on: January 2, 2014, 05:33:22 pm »
What it's like to be a geek and in prison

I'm a hacker who served 4.5 months of a 9 month sentence 5 years ago. I was in two jails in that time, spending the majority of the time in the second, lower security place. The experience totally changed me, but in a positive way.

First of all, I actually had a lot of fun in jail. My education made certain aspects of the prison system very easy for me to navigate, such as legal documentation and debating with guards. My ability to mend broken electronics very quickly became known. These things made me feel very safe, since people were actively protecting me. It also made me feel quite important in the community.

It started when someone came to me and asked what I knew about mending mobile phones. In UK jails, many people have mobiles, usually obtained by over-the-fence smuggling. Pay-as-you-go credit vouchers are a major form of currency. This guy was very important on the wing - he had a crew of other guys who walked around with him and people often came to pay him. I said I knew enough about phones, and what did he want? He explained that someone had owed him money but couldn't pay. He'd taken the guy's phone as payment, but the phone was pin-locked and he couldn't get in. The phone was an old Samsung, one which I knew (having previously owned one) didn't impose any limit on the number of pin attempts. So I told the guy: yeah, I know a few tricks. But I need to get my tools out so I'll do it overnight. (Note: I didn't have any tools). The guy left me with the phone overnight, and I sat up through the night to try all 10,000 possible 4-digit combinations. Thankfully, the correct code turned up in the mid 2000s. So the next day this guy turned up and was amazed that I had figured out the code. He went round telling everyone that I was some tech wizard and that people should always come to me with their problems. In return for the job he arranged for me to have a Playstation 2 in my cell for two weeks, and to get access to a phone whenever I wanted. For the rest of my time, people would bring me trivially broken electronics and I would retire for the evening to make it out like I was doing something difficult, then return the fixed item the next day. It massively increased my quality of life in there.

Secondly, it opened my eyes to how people less fortunate than me live their lives, and how terrible the prison system is for most people. Many, many people in jail were severely mentally ill. There was no support for them. Some were killed in jail, either by inmates or staff, because they flipped out and people got scared. Another large group of people were hopelessly addicted to very harmful drugs. People who exploited this group were the most powerful - they would have drugs smuggled in, then build an army of addicts who would do their bidding to get the next fix. It was a really explosive situation. Almost every act of violence was drug debt related. Immigrants were completely screwed in jail, because there was no way for them to navigate the bureaucracy. I helped several people avoid deportation, including one cell-mate who had a hit contract out on him in Jamaica because he defended his business when yardies tried to extort him. He couldn't read or write, so he couldn't fill out the asylum application. His patois was so strong that his lawyer couldn't really understand what he said, and the border agency was going to send him back to Jamaica to be killed. I wrote letters to the border agency, the prison governor and the home secretary and he was granted asylum and an interpreter was arranged so that his legal visits would be more productive. Hundreds of others in similar situations go without that help every year.

Thirdly, I saw some horrible things. For example: 'syruping' - when someone mixes sugar into a bucket of boiling water and dumps it on someone's face. The dissolved sugar makes the boiling water cling to the skin longer, and the skin peels off leaving the raw flesh exposed. I also saw someone held down by four guys, who performed anal surgery on him with a sharpened spoon to extract drugs he was hiding. He later maimed all four of his assailants, stabbing them in the neck with a pen (saw that too). Another was a guy who was clearly paranoid schizophrenic. His cell was opposite mine. He started screaming one night and barricaded himself in. He then stripped off and covered himself with baby oil, and started setting fire to his cell. The guards came in riot gear to tackle him, but he was so slippery it was like trying to catch an eel. He gave them the run around for quite a while before they eventually held him down and injected him* and he was carried away screaming. He died in hospital.

Fourthly, I felt so ashamed of myself that I changed my life forever. I was a middle class white kid with a great education who got obsessed with hacking and document security as a teenager and went down for figuring out how to perfectly replicate the driving license, thus throwing away many of the advantages that luck, society and my parents had given me. Everyone else in there had no such advantages. Most of them were born to a life where poverty, drugs, violence and lack of education all being concentrated in their environment led to them being systematically channeled into prison. I was there essentially through misplaced intellectual curiosity, while others were there because their lives were so bad out of jail that crime was actually a rational survival choice. Society failed them, while it tried to hold me up with both hands. I was, and am, disgusted with myself. Upon leaving jail I learned programming, worked freelance to pay for my tuition while I got a degree, got a PhD position, and am now working towards spending my life using my skills as efficiently as I can to improve the lives of as many people as possible. If I ever have a lazy moment, I just have to cast my mind back to prison, and the disgust with myself rises up again, and I launch myself back into work with an energy I never knew I had before prison.

Finally, I would say that my criminal record has not held me back. I no longer have to legally disclose it**, but when I did I always did so with a letter explaining some of the circumstances and how deeply it had affected my life. I had several positive comments about my disclosure, and I have never been turned down for a job I've applied for. It doesn't have to hold you back - your attitude has to convince a potential employer that your background makes you a great candidate, not a worse one.

More at the link:
http://www.quora.com/Prisons-and-Prison-Life/What-is-it-like-to-be-a-geek-in-a-prison
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Offline EstonianRed

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #492 on: January 2, 2014, 06:42:04 pm »
A very good read mate, just by reading it I got the impression of it.. dont ever want to experience that

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #493 on: January 2, 2014, 06:43:19 pm »
Im going to nick for not paying my council tax apparently. Hope they have Chilli Con Carne again.
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Offline WEST HAM PAUL

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #494 on: February 1, 2014, 09:05:12 pm »
Finally finished my sentence of seven years yesterday .

Found this thread quite funny reading it & some interesting anecdotes etc


Luckily as a Prison Officer  I had keys & went home everyday lol .

I start a new job on Monday a new career thats nothing to do with the prison service thankfully but working as a prison officer has been an amazing experience & an eye opener to a world most never see .

I've worked with some great people & some twats aswell but I had a great laugh but know its time too move on as the conservative government is slowly dismantling the prison service making it more dangerous for staff & prisoners .

I had some great laughs & banter aswell with prisoners who you get to know well as there either got a long sentence or keep coming back . But of course you do meet others that are horrible & done horrific crimes of which you couldn't believe such people exist .

Prison officers are the forgotten service the do at times a tough job dealing with difficult prisoners a thankless task .


My time is done now though & look forward to my new job on Monday .


If anyone is thinking of going to prison either to work or stay lol feel free to ask for any questions .



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Offline Hij

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #495 on: February 23, 2014, 04:35:22 am »
Searched for the thread to see if Yasar had been active since, as I remembered it this evening chatting to a mate (and Yasar has, very recently posted, so I hope he is well) although I'm still to read the whole thread fully from page 4 or so.

Here's me on the day of my release 10th April 2011. I'm the bell end who barely grew any facial hair in 4 months with the shadow that looks like Yoshi from Mario Brothers and my brother is the lanky one! The other two are probably fairly obvious. That's HMP Highpoint behind us.



To update generally, I have a good part time job in a private members bar 15 minutes from my house and have been employed there for 9 months, despite it being essentially a zero hours contract. It involves working weekends when needed and when I am free from Uni.

So far in my degree through my second and third year, I have essentially 6 B's and 2 D's, with four marking grades to go. I am a dissertation (two grades worth) and an essay and an exam away from a 2:1 at University, which with concerted effort I should realistically be able to achieve now. Achieving a B in my dissertation would probably seal the 2:1 for me.

In terms of turning my life around, to come out with a 2:1 after my exam in May would be as early as I could have possibly attained a degree. It's not quite happened yet, and I'm in no means nearer a proper job despite that, but everything considered there should be reason for big hugs with the woman in the picture above if I manage to do so, as she has never stopped supporting me, and I would love to be able to finally provide her with something tangible to be proud of me by.

As an aside, for anyone in here who has been sentenced to pretty much any offence for whatever reason in the last 5 years (or more), (Edit: includes you Yasar mate) on the 10th March 2014 there will be a change in the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. The full link for anyone who is interested is here: http://www.unlock.org.uk/userfiles/file/informationhub/changestoroa.pdf

Dependent on what sentence you received, whether non custodial, or custodial etc, you'll have to read through to see how it applies to yourself.

I believe I've said my piece on here already regarding the criminal justice system, and allowing people who want it the chance to change, the possibility to do just so. I would hope you agree I fall into that category. So for those reasons I believe that for relatively small offences, or one time mistakes like mine, while serious, should be flexible regarding your future conduct. For instance if you commit no offences since your release date and for an extended period it should be easier for you to rehabilitate and move back into an important part of society.

I remember the Government saying in late 2012 that they would consider reducing the time your offence ran on your record from 10 years in terms of your sentence date to 7 years. To put this into context, I was sentenced on the 11th December 2010, and would therefore with the previous law, my offence would have been removed from my record on the 11th December 2020 or with the new one considered by the Government a couple of years ago, it would have been the 11th December 2017.

In the end the new policy is that (for my particular sentence: custodial sentence over 6 months and less than 30 months) it will remain on my record for 4 years from the end of my entire sentence (e.g prison + tag + licence) as it now will for anyone else.

My licence ended on the 11th April 2012, so therefore, I will have a clean record for a standard criminal record check from April 11th 2016, as opposed to December 2017 or December 2020 which is a wholly positive move for people that want to try and change their lives around in my opinion. I certainly have. Finishing Uni will mean 23 months left until this sorry scenario is behind me.

I am about to read the rest of the thread- will report back if there is anything to engage with. Sorry for the length of my post or if it constitutes being self indulgent, I certainly wouldn't mean it to be that way, I just was reading some of my old posts in this thread and wanted to not only update on where I am personally, but bump the thread with the hint of Yasar letting us know where he is and also let anyone who is effected know about the changes to the 1974 law regarding rehabilitation.

Hope everyone is well :wave
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 05:51:19 am by Hij »
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Offline Hij

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #496 on: February 23, 2014, 05:34:22 am »
Hopefully hes pissing himself laughing at the Moyes to Utd story, time flies by and hes out soon, maybe August in time for the new season  :)

Quoted for relevance to the current day situation. Top marks for calling it early, up there with Mouth and Phase of Play.

This has been a really interesting thread for many of us, and has provided some fascinating insight into life in prison. Please cut out the opinionated bickering about sentences and drug classification. :wave


Perhaps, if starred, one day we could discuss classification sensibly, I know Corkboy has a few discussions ongoing regarding Marijuana. I also believe one of the registered Government petitions regarding the war on drugs has over 100k signatures, and while technically an ex drug dealer and do generally disagree with drug dealing, in terms of possession, I believe at some point there could be a sensible debate to be had, whenever the mods are ready?

The taking of drugs is widespread across the country, of all different types- whatever we think of those that import and sell them, there is a continuing market of people who want to buy them, want to take them and do indeed use them recreationally. Is there a way to facilitate this in a way that can cut the illegal importers/dealers out, safely provide harmless drugs to people that are not cut, and provide help for people doing harmful drugs to come forwards and get help dealing with their issues without being arrested? Dare I say in some way, perhaps even providing some much needed wealth for the economy?

But as you say I should stop there, food for thought later perhaps, I leave it in your hands Michael.

Yeah happy to answer any questions you may have. It was emotionally difficult at times in the sense that the essence of prison life is separation: separation from the people and things you love. To begin with I was in constant yearning for the comfort of the warmth of my friends' smiles with a listless lachrymose longing I'd never felt before. But that feeling faded as I grew accustomed to my surroundings and I'd say most of my time was filled with boredom rather than sadness
 
Have to say that this correlates with the same posts I made at the time you were up for conviction. It's not so much the punishment of being in there as the longing for being out, the waiting around etc. I found. Queuing up for food and knowing I had over 200 more visits exactly the same until I could get out. And that's only 4 months, much less than you mate!

I'm glad you made it through mate, and everything went seemingly as well as it could given the circumstances, I think I revised my opinion on one of the pages that 18 months would be likely, and it was the case. Onwards and upwards, you're out and we should hopefully be back in the Champions League ;D

If you're into comedy, I look forward to some of your pieces, perhaps you could use some of your experiences and share with the Yasar faithful here ;D
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 06:04:42 am by Hij »
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Offline Devon Red

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #497 on: February 23, 2014, 08:39:28 am »
Hij, you have a lot of intelligent and interesting things to say about your experience. Have you considered looking for work helping to rehabilitate and campaign for others who are in your situation? I'd imagine that one job where a criminal record would actually be a bonus would be working for a prison reform charity or rehab programme.

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #498 on: February 23, 2014, 09:08:05 am »

As an aside, for anyone in here who has been sentenced to pretty much any offence for whatever reason in the last 5 years (or more), (Edit: includes you Yasar mate) on the 10th March 2014 there will be a change in the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. The full link for anyone who is interested is here: http://www.unlock.org.uk/userfiles/file/informationhub/changestoroa.pdf


WOW - I knew absolutely nothing of this change!  Have just spent the last 2 hours researching/reading about it and I for one cannot wait for March 10 2014!  Until this change, a number of my convictions were to never be spent - but now they will be. 23 years after the fact. After doing my time. An amazing feeling, that permeates all facets of my working and family life.

I may post some of my experiences of time spent inside on here - I kept a couple of informal journals during some of my 8 years odd in jail. I used to read it back.  I don't now.  Confined to the past. Onwards, upwards.

Back to reading this fascinating thread....
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Offline Hij

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #499 on: July 16, 2014, 02:29:54 am »
Not many since me.

Fuck it, I'm drunk though.

Here is before graduation. I know I look like a James Bond guy and that, but look how happy my mum looks :)









In some ways I feel like I have over contributed to this thread, but in others, today feels like the day I've put it behind me.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 02:38:30 am by Hij »
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Offline Hij

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #500 on: July 16, 2014, 02:33:37 am »
Hij, you have a lot of intelligent and interesting things to say about your experience. Have you considered looking for work helping to rehabilitate and campaign for others who are in your situation? I'd imagine that one job where a criminal record would actually be a bonus would be working for a prison reform charity or rehab programme.

Perhaps this is a possibility. I wasn't in for any length of time that is really recognisable though, but I appreciate a prisoner would rather talk to someone who used to be a prisoner, than some lackey parachuted in to talk some shit. I know others have done it, cheers for the suggestion mate, even if this is potentially a few months late. I may get rejected by all my media applications have to consider elsewhere.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 02:37:42 am by Hij »
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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #501 on: July 18, 2014, 10:52:06 am »
i was in corton vale womans prison but was only allowed in when they were in lock down incase i got raped :) .

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #502 on: July 18, 2014, 01:55:27 pm »

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #503 on: July 18, 2014, 09:00:06 pm »
Not many since me.

Fuck it, I'm drunk though.

Here is before graduation. I know I look like a James Bond guy and that, but look how happy my mum looks :)









In some ways I feel like I have over contributed to this thread, but in others, today feels like the day I've put it behind me.

Just wanted to congratulate you on an incredible achievement, to come so far, after being convicted is a wonderful thing. I think one thing that always amazes me about this forum is the family feel that it has. Its incredible just how close everyone is, but also just how intelligent the board is as well. The people in here who have posted some fascinating insights, I am grateful to you all. Whilst I hope to never be in that position, it makes you realise how lucky you are. We've all been 'down that path' - some get away with it, and come out the otherside, with little scars, some end up in prison with bigger scars, but still end up the other side, and there's the odd one or two, who keep going back.

But seriously Hij - Wonderful work mate. You should be very proud of yourself.

Offline Latenight Surfer

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #504 on: July 20, 2014, 07:33:24 am »
This is an insanely fixating thread. Don't have anything else to contribute but big thanks to everyone who shared their stories.

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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #505 on: July 21, 2014, 06:32:47 pm »
Hij


Just wanted to say it's been a pleasure seeing you becoming a man over your time on RAWK.


Very well bloody done.

Offline Hij

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #506 on: April 11, 2021, 12:36:17 am »
Just a bump here.

Since midnight it's been ten years to the day I walked out of prison. I've got a degree, two children, and a job I love that thankfully I've kept despite Covid. And my best mate Chris has been there throughout it all.

Justice for Anne Williams. Justice for the 97. Justice for the Survivors.

Istanbul 2005. Athens 2007. Basel 2016. Kiev 2018. Madrid 2019. Paris 2022.

Offline Hij

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #507 on: April 11, 2021, 12:37:21 am »
Hij


Just wanted to say it's been a pleasure seeing you becoming a man over your time on RAWK.


Very well bloody done.
Only just seen this. It would be a pleasure to get you a beer in when fans can go games again!
Justice for Anne Williams. Justice for the 97. Justice for the Survivors.

Istanbul 2005. Athens 2007. Basel 2016. Kiev 2018. Madrid 2019. Paris 2022.

Offline FlashingBlade

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #508 on: April 12, 2021, 12:02:05 pm »
One night in the main bridewell D&D after the Derby..innocent..charge dropped in Court.

One Night in St Anne street ' for my own benefit'...no charges...innocent...well apart from couple of E's and speed ball I took at Nation..ended up in street 'bit confused' said the police...they where very nice to be honest

One Night in Bow Street...night before league cup final in 84..just pulled cos wrong place wrong time ..going off everwhere in West End. bizzies just grabbed me..innocent...but found guilty...name in Echo along with 250 others who ' Brought Shame on the city'  ;D

My defence, " Society's to blame , your honour"


All have funny story's attached..too long to tell...
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 12:05:08 pm by FlashingBlade »

Offline Henry Kissinger

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #509 on: April 12, 2021, 03:18:19 pm »
One night in the main bridewell D&D after the Derby..innocent..charge dropped in Court.

One Night in St Anne street ' for my own benefit'...no charges...innocent...well apart from couple of E's and speed ball I took at Nation..ended up in street 'bit confused' said the police...they where very nice to be honest

One Night in Bow Street...night before league cup final in 84..just pulled cos wrong place wrong time ..going off everwhere in West End. bizzies just grabbed me..innocent...but found guilty...name in Echo along with 250 others who ' Brought Shame on the city'  ;D

My defence, " Society's to blame , your honour"


All have funny story's attached..too long to tell...

One night in Bangkok?
"What's passive smoking? There's passive lots of things. Like passive listening to shitheads. I have to put up with that every day. Are you going to ban people from talking crap? They give me a headache. Believe me, they're killing me. One day people's conversations on the street will do me in." Terry Hall

Offline AndyInVA

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #510 on: April 12, 2021, 07:04:43 pm »
Just a bump here.

Since midnight it's been ten years to the day I walked out of prison. I've got a degree, two children, and a job I love that thankfully I've kept despite Covid. And my best mate Chris has been there throughout it all.



I vaguely remember this thread from way back. Incredible reading.

Well done mate and thanks for bumping one of RAWKS inspirational threads. Props to your friend also who stood with you.

Offline WEST HAM PAUL

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Re: Anyone here ever been to prison?
« Reply #511 on: April 18, 2021, 02:08:42 pm »
Just a bump here.

Since midnight it's been ten years to the day I walked out of prison. I've got a degree, two children, and a job I love that thankfully I've kept despite Covid. And my best mate Chris has been there throughout it all.




Congratulations mate

I’m not sure people who’ve never experienced prison life understand what an achievement this is

Having done 7 years myself ( with a key 😀 ) I know you fit into probably the 1 (One) Percent who could have achieved what you have done .

Prison is often a revolving door & a shit load come back again & again & again for various reasons

Fortunes Always Hiding. 

And The Sun Shines Now

Sex bombs to the left of me would be playboy bunnies to the right and here I am stuck in the middle with my pasty white bird.