Author Topic: #SHANKLY100 You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!  (Read 57842 times)

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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For over 40 years now, the question as to who sung YNWA first, has been raised time and time again. Was it Liverpool or Celtic fans? Was it Liverpool fans or Gerry Marsden? This is my attempt to put the record straight, once and for all time.

The most difficult thing as usual, has been trying to find a time line, that would ring my memory bells. So back to 1963 we go.

The Beatles were singing “From Me to You” and Gerry of Pacemakers fame was singing “I Like It”. We had just moved from Calthorpe Street (by the park) to Condor Close (by the Martket) both in Garston. JFK was alive and kicking and addressing the Laos problem. Andy Pandy and Ted were busy inventing roasting with a little torment called Looby Lou.

Zooney on Fireball XL5 was doing his impression of a ‘monkey on mogadon’ or weed. Jimmy Young was hosting The 625 Show and This is Your Life was prime time entertainment. Telly finished at 11.15pm.

My best mate was Gary Hughes, my school girlfriend was Julie Evans from Brunswick Street, and my Street girlfriend was Elizabeth Reid. Time set, now for the exercise.

I’ve heard the question many times, “What would make football supporters sing a song from a musical in 1945”?Answering a question with another; what would make a pop group, with two original Number 1 records do the same?

Gerry and The Pacemakers had already hit the top with "How do you do it" and "I Like it". Ask yourselves this, what then possessed them to release a Rogers and Hammerstien hit from 1945?

The answer, they were aware of its growing popularity with over half the population of Liverpool and were sure of its success.

The 1962/63 season saw my first visit to Anfield as told in “As thick as two short planks”. By the first week in March, Liverpool had already been beaten in the league by Leicester City, home and away. It would not be long before Leicester were called our “bogey team” for the first time.

Therefore it should not surprise many to know, that when Liverpool drew Leicester in the FA Cup semi finals, it was met with sighs and gasps. The game was to be played at Hillsborough, the traditional semi-final venue.

Once again Leicester were to prove to be too much for the newly promoted outfit from Anfield, however considering it was Liverpool’s first season back in the top flight, they had gained a lot of respect from league and Cup opponents and surely it wouldn’t be too long before both trophies adorned the newly extended trophy cabinet ... “build it and they will come”.

The Liverpool fans who travelled to Hillsborough that day, approximately 25,000 of the 65,000 gate saw Shankly's Liverpool lose narrowly 1-0. The crowd included a very young Gerry Flaherty who went to the games with his mate Billy Brod. As the players were heading off the pitch, the fans were applauding their efforts.

Now, Liverpool fans have always included at least ONE comedian, you know him, the one that stands up in a game and either cracks the funniest comment of the day or starts singing his own song. Today was such a day.

In the pissing down rain amidst claps of thunder, our version of Tommy Trinder kicked in. “When you walk through the storm ...

Amongst the giggles from most, others realised the humour and joined in, "Hold your head up high ...

And don't be afraid of the dark
At the end of the storm
There's a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of the lark

Walk on, through the wind
Walk on, through the rain
Though your dreams be tossed and blown
Walk on, walk on,
with hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone
You'll never walk alone"

I have it on good authority that the singing stopped at this point and the balance of,

Walk on, walk on,
with hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone
You'll never walk alone

Was added later.

Time line: 27th April, 1963

The final game at home that year, saw Liverpool batter Birmingham 5-1 and with minutes left of the game, I assume it was the same bunch of Kopites that had travelled to Hillsborough, started up the song once again. Only this time even more joined in.

Time Line : 8th May, 1963

The season ended with a 0-0 draw and two away defeats, but a new song had been born on the Terraces of English Football.

Time Line: 28th September 1963

Both Gerry and Billy saw Liverpool beat Everton 2-1 with a brace of goals scored by the not so prolific Ian Callaghan but neither can remember the song being sung before or after the game.

However, on the 5th October 1963, the day after Gerry & The Pacemakers released “You’ll Never Walk Alone”, the song was sung as Liverpool stuffed five passed a hapless Villa (Sir Roger grabbing two and Cally amongst the scorers again).

Memories may be fading in the lads' twilight years, but they recall the record being played again (and sung to again) the following Wednesday night in a 3-1 win over Sheffield Wednesday at Anfield. Thus the second link to Hillsborough.

From this time the song was sung before and after the game and was well established as a Kopites favourite. On the 2nd November with the song now having reached number 1, Liverpool once again entertained Leicester (second link to the Foxes), but the game ended in what was becoming a familiar result, a 1-0 loss.

I only mention this, due to this being the first game where fans began to hold or wave their scarves to the tune.

So let’s return to the original questions, but this time with enough bullets to sink a battleship. Was it the Celtic fans who first sung “You’ll never walk alone”?

Was it like SHITE!!

Did Gerry Marsden bring “You’ll Never Walk Alone” into the Hallowed Halls of Anfield ?

NO! It was Gerry Flaherty and other travellers to Hillsborough in April 1963.

“And you can take that to the bank”

© Wooltonian 2004

Postscript:

Gerry, love to Angela and the kids
Karl
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 10:55:36 AM by MichaelA »
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Offline Bannside Red

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2004, 09:55:59 AM »


My best mate was Gary Hughes, my school girlfriend was Julie Evans from Brunswick Street, and my Street girlfriend was Elizabeth Reid.


Good enough for me.

Even though it's from a two-timer.  8)  ;D

Offline Redordead

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2004, 10:20:40 AM »
Class as usual Wooly  ;D ;D
Houses smell of mushy peas, cat piss, dope and (in the more extreme cases in West Yorks) ammunition.  Wives look like scarred pitbull terriers.  Children are feral, resembling hungry monkeys.  Bloke wears vests a lot.  Tracksuit bottoms.  Slippers.  Few tattoos.  Wishes he'd joined the army, pretends he was a Para.  Spends too much time wanking...

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2004, 10:31:08 AM »
wasn't two timing......

one was between 9-3.30 and the other was from 3.45 until the street lights were lit.
In those days a fellah came round with a pole and turned the lights on

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Offline wellsimple

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2004, 11:41:49 AM »
Nice one.

*forwards to a bunch of Celtic fans and a couple of bitter blues I know who always go on about Celtic singing it first*
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Offline Jimbo.

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2004, 11:55:59 AM »
Quality  ;)
Quote from: Dan_L
Chester is in chesirte, trasmneraeeeee is in wirral dfivo 1adand lpoolis merseydie lpoo2-1 everpuyokton |BluESHITE!!!!!!wert sr76yipeeeeeeeeeeeee113wt4aee

Offline nige

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2004, 12:31:14 PM »
thanks Karl, you've filled in the details better than i've ever heard before.
You ever spoken to anyone who's spoken  to the author(s) of the first, newer (Red River Valley ) bit of  PST as to their exact  inspiration - I  know Rushian & I have done our  research on this but we're still looking for the "missing link".

Offline El mooro

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2004, 12:54:17 PM »
Quality that.

mooro
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Offline Rushback

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2004, 01:02:50 PM »

Sorted tonian, you'll do fer me
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Offline stoz

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2004, 01:14:48 PM »
Ask Evo, he knows the exact game it was first sung at Anfield as he asked me as a quiz question. Think it was West Brom in 1963.

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2004, 01:21:04 PM »
West Brom was the game after the Sheff Wed game.
My sources think above is acurate, but I aint gonna argue with the walking LEXICON, that is EVO.

how do you pronounce "EVO stick"  ;)
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Offline Hinesy

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Re: Time to put The Record Straight !
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2004, 05:33:06 PM »
mind you I heard.....










 ;)
Yep.

Offline Chindits

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2004, 06:11:19 PM »
Simply superb.

Offline cornelius

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2004, 07:31:49 PM »
Sad thing is so many of todays "nouveau" football fans are pig fucking ignorant and know nothing about football pre 1990. Any history lessons are wasted on these wankers, they just make up their own myths. :butt The media are just as responsible, the press, the Tyldesleys of this world they make me want to puke :puke
I guess the only way we'll have our day over these cretins is when the reds get to the top again and when it happens I'll be the chief amongst goaders whether its the liverpool way or not. It'll be payback for all the small time no marks like Bolton, Boro etc who've been acting like petulant little brats for the last 14 years :no
Phew glad I got that off my chest :)

Offline jocky

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2004, 09:55:03 PM »
well lads u may have sung it first u may even have wrote the song but for sure you will never sing it with the love, passion, emotion, feeling or colour that we do in Paradise. When we sing THE song the hairs on the back of your neck stand, your heart beats ten to the dozen, and the feeling of pride and emotion is like nothing i can put into words. I think most of us Tims would agree that liverpool fans sung it first but thats maybe because the english media forever associated the Kop and the song as one, but though you were first  with it we will always be better at it. To be honest it has always been a huge dissappoitment when we have played liverpool and heard the so called custodians of the song attempt to sing it, and i have no doubt any scouser or otherwise, who have heard us sing it wether it be in Paradise, Annfield, Nou Camp, Brockville or castle greyskull on the other side of glasgow, could ever deny that we sing that song with a passion and emotion like no other football fans the world over sing a song. Starting to ramble here so time to go but all the best in your chase 4th place but keep your hands of the messiah.

Offline Mottman

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2004, 11:37:33 PM »
The Spion Kop first started singing in the 1920's,bet you don't have a record of that?
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #16 on: May 1, 2004, 09:02:21 AM »
Jocky
many thanks for your response, it's nice to see the old links dating back to 66 still strong.
I was at the 1966 semi final game at Anfield and I can assure you, YNWA was sung with a passion that was awe inspiring.
Sadly things have waned since, but die hard fans will never let the song die.

I will never knock Celtic fans singing, they are truly the champs of Scotland.
We met 5 fans at Stansted this year travelling to Spain as we were heading to Marseille, it's nice to see fervour still exists for big Euro nights.
Jamie and the crew promised to enter a Celtic side in the next Hillsborough Justice Campaign Cup, be assure all who travel will be made most welcome, on our Special Day / Night

Karl
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Offline inky2

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #17 on: May 9, 2004, 10:51:10 AM »
aah happy days :)
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Offline Sasquatch

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #18 on: December 7, 2005, 02:07:14 PM »
well lads u may have sung it first u may even have wrote the song but for sure you will never sing it with the love, passion, emotion, feeling or colour that we do in Paradise. When we sing THE song the hairs on the back of your neck stand, your heart beats ten to the dozen, and the feeling of pride and emotion is like nothing i can put into words. I think most of us Tims would agree that liverpool fans sung it first but thats maybe because the english media forever associated the Kop and the song as one, but though you were first  with it we will always be better at it. To be honest it has always been a huge dissappoitment when we have played liverpool and heard the so called custodians of the song attempt to sing it, and i have no doubt any scouser or otherwise, who have heard us sing it wether it be in Paradise, Annfield, Nou Camp, Brockville or castle greyskull on the other side of glasgow, could ever deny that we sing that song with a passion and emotion like no other football fans the world over sing a song. Starting to ramble here so time to go but all the best in your chase 4th place but keep your hands of the messiah.

Just found this thread. I bet jocky must have been eating his words when he watched the whole of Anfield burst it out at the Chelsea semi and other games. No matter what the Celtic fans might think, NOBODY accociates YNWA with Celtic over Liverpool.


Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #19 on: December 8, 2005, 11:27:48 AM »
The Spion Kop first started singing in the 1920's,bet you don't have a record of that?

Bet yer I do, included in the Roaring Twenties Series
It was a chant based on a peice written by BEE out of the echo.
Also included links to 'popular music of the day' now they are funny
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Offline Starsky17

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2005, 07:43:00 PM »
Where do the stories that celtic were first to sing it come from then? I only ask because a (scottish) friend of mine still reckons they were first to sing it.

Offline RI-Red

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2005, 04:13:15 PM »
Time line: 27th April, 1963

The final game at home that year, saw Liverpool batter Birmingham 5-1 and with minutes left of the game, I assume it was the same bunch of Kopites that had travelled to Hillsborough, started up the song once again. Only this time even more joined in.

Are you sure it wasnt to celebrate my Birth??   ;D

Nice article btw!
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Offline scoobs

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2005, 08:00:33 AM »
Quote
Where do the stories that celtic were first to sing it come from then? I only ask because a (scottish) friend of mine still reckons they were first to sing it.

Me and my mate went up to Scotland last year for about a week of mindless drinking. Anyway I never met a single Celtic supporter who thought that they had sung YNWA first. One lad, top bloke, sounded like he knew what he was talking about and has been a season ticket at Celtic Park since the 70s. He didn't know exactly when they started singing it but he did mention that Liverpool played Celtic, apart from the 1966 semi, in testimonials for Ron Yeats, Billy McNeill and later on Jock Stein. He said it possible that could have slowly picked it up from one of these games as well. Also there were a few clubs who sang YNWA in the late 60s/early 70s. I think even Leeds were singing it. They played each other in the European Cup semis. I know Hibs fans were singing back in the 70s. Right, this lad also said that YNWA was only sung occasionally throughout the 70s and 80s and only become a regular anthem after the Hillsborough testimonial game. He also mentioned that Celtic supporters like to use 'The Fields of Anfield Road/Anthery' as some sort of evidence of Liverpools penchant for nicking things off them. But according to him The Fields of Anthery was being sung at club games in Ireland and at Irish Rugby Internationals at Lansdowne Road long before Celtic Park and that Celtic supporters only started singing after Rangers fans had sung Fathers Advice (some Loylaist song to the same tune) at Tommy Burns first Old Firm game in 1994. I don't know how true all this is but this guy seemed genuine. Hey if they weren't singing YNWA at Celtic Park in 66 and in Lisbon a year later then they certainly didn't sing before Liverpool supporters.   

Offline the invisible man

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2006, 03:31:26 PM »
 :wave

Wonderful memories come flooding back...

I was in the boyspen in them days...

It sure was packed with some very tall, strange looking scousers,
some "boys" even had tits and a big hairy moustache... ::)

we just had to avoid the cops as we climbed over, (or were more likely thrown).

Does anyone remember Gary Sprake throwing the ball into his  own net??? ;D

Then the Kop bursting forth with "Careless Hands" by  Des O'Connor...!

Then I think it was "The Scaffold " with "Thank You Very Much..."

classics every one...

TIM... :wave 8)
t.i.m...

Offline Ashfordian

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2006, 07:20:47 PM »
Shows you what Scots know...

Offline Tony Hateley

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2006, 06:36:27 PM »
That has answered a lifelong burning question for me,my wee mate Wullie has always insisted it was a Celtic song,I always said that it was bollocks, its an Liverpool FC song,I can now show him this and tell the wee jock shite to shut his gob,I wouldn't really say that cos he's my bezzie mate ;)
cheers Wooly
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Offline artwork1504

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2006, 08:41:33 PM »
I must say... Thanks for the facinating and nostalgic info... eps. for youngsters like me...

Offline kopite-stu

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2006, 08:56:07 PM »
It was never really in doubt anyway :)
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Offline Sport Billy

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2006, 05:34:58 PM »
Some things are worth a read mate and that is definitely one of them ;)
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Offline diggers suit

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2006, 11:51:11 AM »
what a brilliant read

I was at the Celtic game after Hillsborough and that was trully a special day and no better place to be after what had happened.  the memory of the whole stadium singing YNWA will stay with me forever

have to say though, that I've been to Celtic a few times and their singing of YNWA is pretty pathetic if its not a 'big' game.  they don't always sing it and twice I've been and they didn't even finish the main verse!  so all this bollocks about them being better is just a myth.  they can fit 20,000 more fans in their ground so its no surprise it sounds bettter if they all sing it.  but they don't often bother

Offline brightonpete

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2006, 05:41:07 PM »
we had a guy in the bar after the man u game doing his celtic sung ynwa first bit and i couldnt remember thedate gonna wite it down for next time i see him.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #31 on: April 9, 2006, 03:38:52 AM »
Top quality.....I enjoyed that trip down memory lane.
I went to Billy McNeils testimonial and the Celts did sort of half join in, but they took it as another of their anthems after Hillsborough rather than in the 60s...there is no doubt about that.
I also recall that there was a minutes silence arranged at the San Siro just after Hillsborough.It was the Milan Derby.
As you can imagine the ground was packed to the rafters..90.000 I think or more at that time!
Rather than stay silent both sets of fans raised their scarves and flags and sang You'll Never Walk Alone...very moving!
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Offline goldrush

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #32 on: April 9, 2006, 09:23:00 PM »
It was Milan against Madrid in the EC when they famously sang 'You'll Never Walk Alone' 4 days after Hillsborough - it was very moving.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2006, 09:01:13 AM »
It was Milan against Madrid in the EC when they famously sang 'You'll Never Walk Alone' 4 days after Hillsborough - it was very moving.
Cheers mate.........must have been incredible!
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

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Offline RigBon1892

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2006, 01:49:49 PM »
we had a guy in the bar after the man u game doing his celtic sung ynwa first bit and i couldnt remember thedate gonna wite it down for next time i see him.

Yeah I need to do that too

I dunno about anyone else but "hold your head up high" sounds a lot better than the original lyrics of "keep your chin up high"

As for who sings it better, while watching the video clips of last years semi against Chelsea, I had to turn down the volume for that, so I think that answers the question
I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager.

"Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone
YNWA Rafa.

Offline Mr Mojo Risin'

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2006, 06:46:49 PM »
top read mate. :)
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Offline Redned

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2006, 09:31:03 AM »
thank you for that Wooltonian
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Offline vicgill

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2006, 12:31:58 AM »
Great stuff Wooltonian....and bang on the nail
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and making yourself available to receive a pass, it is really that simple"

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Online Yorkykopite

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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2006, 04:48:48 PM »
It was sung so beautifully in those early days.  Anyone wanting to hear it should check out the DVD of the 1965 Cup Final. There's a glorious version in extra time soon after we go 1-0 up. The Reds are playing keep ball and the Kop is singing YNWA with perfect timing. The commentator (Wolstenhome?) remains completely quiet for the duration and then, once the anthem's finished, says something like "that's splendid singing from the Anfield Choir". Fantastic.

(Of course the 1964 Scottish Cup Final might show something similar for the Hoops. Errr..not)
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Re: You'll Never Walk Alone: Time to put the record straight!
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2006, 03:59:53 AM »
It was sung so beautifully in those early days.  Anyone wanting to hear it should check out the DVD of the 1965 Cup Final. There's a glorious version in extra time soon after we go 1-0 up. The Reds are playing keep ball and the Kop is singing YNWA with perfect timing. The commentator (Wolstenhome?) remains completely quiet for the duration and then, once the anthem's finished, says something like "that's splendid singing from the Anfield Choir". Fantastic.

(Of course the 1964 Scottish Cup Final might show something similar for the Hoops. Errr..not)

It'd be great if you could find a way of uploading that to YouTube or something... cheers.
Me dad reckons he was in the Kop when it was recorded so says he's sang for Pink Floyd. ;)