Author Topic: What's the story behind...?  (Read 55533 times)

Offline Rococo

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #80 on: October 1, 2012, 06:24:15 PM »
Thanks for sharing your stories penlan - brilliant to read

Offline Devon Red

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #81 on: October 2, 2012, 10:04:53 AM »
I remember me and some guys 'acquiring', (you couldn't but flags in those days unless they were official and they cost a fortune) a big flag from an official flagpole in some official type of building for some of the lads to take to an Eastern European game. It was way before the sophisticated banners and flags we have today (which are brilliant). i think it was a naval flag with the Union Jack in the top left hand corner and the the flag quarted by the St. George cross filling the rest up (maybe someone knows what this is). The lads went to the game and when it was shown on the TV (a recording, nothing live in those days) we saw the flag draped over one of the higher terraces/stands

That sounds like a White Ensign naval flag. Your story reminded me of old photos of the Kop where there are a lot of Union Jacks on display. I always wondered when and why the flags dissapeared, as I hardly ever see Union Jacks or St Georges Crosses at Anfield. I assumed it was because of the politics of the city, but your story makes me wonder if it was actually for more practical reasons. Maybe it was simply that Union Jacks were the only flags available at the time, so supporters just waved whatever they could get hold of without thinking too much about politics or patriotism. Does anyone know more about this?

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #82 on: October 2, 2012, 12:03:51 PM »
Yep, that sounds like it. I agree that the availability of buying banners and flags was very limited and the supply almost the sole domain of flag makers who made them for official bodies and events. So, very expensive. We just didn't have the money. I think a political dimension came in during the 80's when Merseyside, along with many other parts of the country, suffered under a cruel political attitude towards it. I think it sort of caught onto an underlying sentiment that Liverpool wasn't quite a part of the rest of the country. Couple that with our footballing experiences in Europe and how the ideas from that became part of our football culture and we have what we have now. Some of the banners that are seen now are quite superb which belies the general and out of date attitude towards football fans as uneducated morons. Certainly the LFC banners and flags are way beyond what are seen at other grounds, although they are often copied. I think there was a campaign of KFS organised by Reclaim The Kop (did they morph into something else) which was hugely influenced how this developed. Many other factors involved also.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #83 on: October 2, 2012, 11:03:50 PM »
Thanks for sharing your stories penlan - brilliant to read
Seconded.
Thanks penlan.

Offline meady1981

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #84 on: October 3, 2012, 08:28:25 AM »
Just missed my train to work because I'm reading all your posts penlan. And I don't care! Brilliant mate.

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #85 on: October 3, 2012, 09:00:42 AM »
Just missed my train to work because I'm reading all your posts penlan. And I don't care! Brilliant mate.

Hope it didn't cause any problems.

Offline meady1981

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #86 on: October 3, 2012, 10:21:31 AM »
Haha not at all mate. Get started on that book!

Offline Mottman

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #87 on: October 3, 2012, 11:34:59 PM »
Roughly what year did these songs start?


Left right jeans on tight airware to the floor etc

Arrivederci Roma 77 or 84?


Or finally this one that I've only ever seen on song lists. I've never ever even heard anyone even mentioning it. It scans to "I see Celtic on the Ball".


We love John Barnes,We love John Barnes,J.B. - We love Johnny on the ball.
He's fantastic, Legs Elastic,
He stands proud while all defenders fall.
Shout it loud like ETC


Alright mate, thanks for the PM.

First time I heard Left right jeans on tight Airware to the floor etc was the Wednesday before the mid week away 4.1 defeat at Newcastle in the 74 -75 season.  Used to play football on a Wednesday afternoon in those day's and a great mate from Netherton named Fred taught it to us that day, he still goes the game as well.  Never got to get to the night match up at Newcastle, no ordinary's or Soccer Special's went, Tried for ages to try and find a coach firm that was going up for the game but no joy. 
A boy from the Mersey and a Son of Shankly.

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #88 on: October 3, 2012, 11:58:24 PM »
Can I ask from the any of the fans from the 60's, 70's and 80's, did the catholic/protestant divide ever effect LFC?

I ask because Liverpool always seemed to share a close affinity to Celtic. Yet one of their main songs is to the tune of the sash. Liverpool have a massive following in Belfast, where I am originally from. As well as club games in the Irish League where I have been on away buses that were bricked, bottled and even a couple of pot shots taken at one (when I stopped attending games there), I have also attended Rangers games and witnesses similar things there. As far as I am aware English clubs/supporters just had random trouble from wannabe thugs, especially in London I believe, though I never read of any religious/sectarian motivation for anything.

Excuse my ignorance on this. It´s all a bit before my time however it was only just now that the question popped into my head reading about the origins of Poor Scouser Tommy and penlans adventures 2 decades before I was born!
« Last Edit: October 4, 2012, 12:00:15 AM by BabuYagu »
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.

Offline Chavasse1917

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #89 on: October 4, 2012, 12:21:53 AM »
 I first started supporting Liverpool as a young kid in the 60s but really started following (ie attending games) in the 70s. In my experience, though Liverpool has been said to be the Protestant club in the city, I dont really think religious polarisation has really shown itself. 

There are loads of Liverpool fans with affinity to Celtic and loads with affinity to Rangers and in my experience its been a very friendly affair. If you have ever listened to the Twelfth Man CD of Liverpool songs that has been for sale outside the ground there is a short track with two sections Liverpool fans (I think in the Albert) chanting Rangers- Celtic at each other for a short period and then breaking out into other chants. All very friendly, so it seems.

Liverpool is a very tolerant city, unless you are a Tory politiican. I think only Cardiff comes close, from what I have found. Liverpool generally accepts all races, creeds and beliefs and I can honestly say that the religious divide that is said to plague Belfast, Glasgow and Edinburgh in respect to Glentoran/Linfield, Rangers/Celtic and Hearts/Hibs has not been seen by me in forty years of match going.
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Offline The 92A

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #90 on: October 4, 2012, 12:25:04 AM »
I was going from late sixties with my auld fella but started going in The Kop with my mates from the start of the seventies. I remember from 'The part that starts 'Oh I am a Liverpuddlian and I come from the Spion Kop' being sung On the Kop during the seventies it was a well known song on it's own, it finished with ... We played the Toffee's for a laugh and we left them feeling Blue. 5-0. which refered to a sixties result.

 
I never heard what's now the start, the 'let me tell you a story of a young boy' until much later probably late seventies early eighties. This I heard in the pub before it was joined to the front of 'Oh I am a Liverpudlian' at the match. Then later still came the 1-2, 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4, 5 Nil and the 'Rush scored one... rush scored 2  bit. Since the Seventies it's always been 'The Arabian Sun' to me but by the same token i'm sure others have always sung 'Libyan Sun' you here what you sing at the match sometimes.

 
I defer to penlan who was going before me but in the seventies the reason there was union Jacks on the kop was simple, You could rob them dead easy from the tub in the Army and Navy opposite Lewis's. They had a big tub of arl flags and we'd use them for flags at the match. Most were Union Jacks but if you got a Red Ensign you were made up and occasionally there'd be something exotic like a Japanese flag, don't know how that got in the tub but we had it and sprayed it with 'Scousers Rule and Don't you forget it' for an away on the special before the ordinaries. Anything with red on was boss before the sewing shops started getting big off cuts of red material like that el kilo by London Road.

Offline The 92A

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #91 on: October 4, 2012, 12:35:18 AM »
Can I ask from the any of the fans from the 60's, 70's and 80's, did the catholic/protestant divide ever effect LFC?

I ask because Liverpool always seemed to share a close affinity to Celtic. Yet one of their main songs is to the tune of the sash. Liverpool have a massive following in Belfast, where I am originally from. As well as club games in the Irish League where I have been on away buses that were bricked, bottled and even a couple of pot shots taken at one (when I stopped attending games there), I have also attended Rangers games and witnesses similar things there. As far as I am aware English clubs/supporters just had random trouble from wannabe thugs, especially in London I believe, though I never read of any religious/sectarian motivation for anything.

Excuse my ignorance on this. It´s all a bit before my time however it was only just now that the question popped into my head reading about the origins of Poor Scouser Tommy and penlans adventures 2 decades before I was born!

There has been talk of Lpool being the proddy club and Everton being a Catholic club but it's generally a myth. In the Seventies there were shouts of Celtic, Rangers, at the match in both the Kop and The St End and they were about equal at both grounds. football has never really been sectarian on Merseyside.

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #92 on: October 4, 2012, 07:26:37 AM »

There has been talk of Lpool being the proddy club and Everton being a Catholic club but it's generally a myth. In the Seventies there were shouts of Celtic, Rangers, at the match in both the Kop and The St End and they were about equal at both grounds. football has never really been sectarian on Merseyside.
Fully agree with this. I too recall Liverpool referred to as being the Protestant club. Being brogut  up in the Bullring, in the late 60s/early 70s, the dominant religion was probably Catholicism. However, I cannot recall any sectarian divide regarding clubs, even in a fairly insular area.

Offline plums123

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #93 on: October 4, 2012, 08:06:07 AM »
cant remember all of it but what was this one, " i like to sing i like to shout iv'e been thrown out quite a lot, we support a team that plays in red, its a team that you all know, the name of the team is liverpool and to glory we will go, weve won the league weve won the cup and weve won in europe too, and we played the toffees for a laugh and we left them feeling blue.... to the tune of the sash.
I used to love this everton song,  Oh we hate bill Shankly and we hate st john, but most of all we hate big ron, and we'll hang the kopites one by one on the banks of the royal blue mersey...... ;D used to think of it as a compliment rather than an insult

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #94 on: October 4, 2012, 08:15:41 AM »
Fully agree with this. I too recall Liverpool referred to as being the Protestant club. Being brogut  up in the Bullring, in the late 60s/early 70s, the dominant religion was probably Catholicism. However, I cannot recall any sectarian divide regarding clubs, even in a fairly insular area.

There has been talk of Lpool being the proddy club and Everton being a Catholic club but it's generally a myth. In the Seventies there were shouts of Celtic, Rangers, at the match in both the Kop and The St End and they were about equal at both grounds. football has never really been sectarian on Merseyside.

Good that our great club was never dragged into that. I actually like the fact that our rivalry with Everton is entirely down to locality and football. (Or from their perspective, jealousy and bitterness from said jealousy)

Thanks 92A and Stevie for your replies.

Also when I was growing up there was the general belief that "proddy clubs" by and large wore blue. Linfield, Rangers and Chelsea were the three used to back that theory so I naturally assumed Everton were a proddy club too. I was already a Liverpool supporter at this stage and, to be honest, couldn´t give a flying fuck about the sectarianism aside from the direct impact it had on my life so wasn´t about to ditch a team I loved supporting just because their rivals wore a nice, proddy , blue. :D
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #95 on: October 4, 2012, 08:55:32 AM »
The lads that I went the match with were a mixture of both Catholic and Protestant. One played the Big Drum in the Lodge and another had been an altar boy in his youth. Others walked in the Lodge. It never affected their relationship at all. It always was understood that Liverpool had a Protestant feel to it though and Everton had a similar Catholic feel, although it was never on display and certainly never created ill feeling on that level. I think it was due to this mix that we were able to draw on both Lodge and Republican cultures to develop some songs. Thankfully we never got too embroiled in it all but rather used to an advantage.

Offline Anfieldite

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #96 on: October 4, 2012, 09:31:39 AM »

Alright mate, thanks for the PM.

First time I heard Left right jeans on tight Airware to the floor etc was the Wednesday before the mid week away 4.1 defeat at Newcastle in the 74 -75 season.  Used to play football on a Wednesday afternoon in those day's and a great mate from Netherton named Fred taught it to us that day, he still goes the game as well.  Never got to get to the night match up at Newcastle, no ordinary's or Soccer Special's went, Tried for ages to try and find a coach firm that was going up for the game but no joy. 


Fascinating as ever Mottman, thank you!

Offline youll never walk alone it

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #97 on: October 4, 2012, 04:35:14 PM »
Well liverpool as a city  has the biggest catholic population  pro-rata than any uk city, yes more so than belfast or glasgow! 
some good stories in this thread very enjoyable.
The split of course between the clubs is of course a myth, and dont forget the proddys are all torys, winks.
Im drunk  but i havent had  a drink!  bob paisley after rome 77                The times i had here wernt all great, we only  finished 2nd one  season....the great  bob paisley

when shanks was asked  how he relaxed,  he said  he looks at the league table and checks where everton are...

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #98 on: November 5, 2012, 03:54:23 PM »
I posted this some while back in some other thread. Back in the 70's I was a member of the LFCSCLB (Liverpool Supporters Club London Branch) and followed the Reds home and away on the Euston - Lime Street trains.

Anyway, we were all handed this sheet of words on the train up to Liverpool one Saturday in either 76 or 77. I'm guessing some Cockney lad had copied the words down from listening to the song being sung by the Scouse locals and had misunderstood the lyrics...



'Sing something simple, you simple twats!'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVZIx3tuxws

Offline meady1981

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #99 on: November 7, 2012, 02:20:47 PM »
Where does one travel to see pies swimming around in crossroads these days..?

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #100 on: November 7, 2012, 02:28:27 PM »
Wigan?

Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #101 on: October 19, 2015, 09:54:08 AM »
I posted this some while back in some other thread. Back in the 70's I was a member of the LFCSCLB (Liverpool Supporters Club London Branch) and followed the Reds home and away on the Euston - Lime Street trains.

Anyway, we were all handed this sheet of words on the train up to Liverpool one Saturday in either 76 or 77. I'm guessing some Cockney lad had copied the words down from listening to the song being sung by the Scouse locals and had misunderstood the lyrics...



This is hilariously brilliant. Have anything else to share?
YNWA.

Offline Medellin

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #102 on: December 15, 2016, 10:11:46 AM »
POOR SCOUSER TOMMY THE UNTOLD STORY

Near Bootle docks in a terraced street
where kids played football in bare feet
stands little Tommy, 8 years of age
most kids were poor in pre war days.

They’d have to borrow, beg or steal
and rarely ate a decent meal
but no one held their heads in shame
for kids back then were all the same.

Together with his little mates
he’d peer through the dockyard gates
at merchant ships from far and wide
who’s cargo’s had them hypnotized.

They never stole for gain or greed
they stole for basic human need
a sense of ’conscience’ did not exist
thats just a word used by the rich.

As Tommy grew into his teens
he’d make a shilling by any means
he’d steal from Peter to pay back Paul
to watch his hometown play football.

To Anfield every other week
he’d amble through the cobbled streets
climbing gas lamps with dirty hands
stealing apples, and skipping trams.

He’d stand upon a wooden crate
to watch Kays team of 38
Mcdougal and Busby played at half back
while Balmer and Kinghorn led the attack.

Like all young lads he had no cares
life is such bliss, when your unaware
one big adventure from day to day
just eat and sleep, and steal and play.

For boys like Tommy, knew not their fate
a world wide conflict soon lay in wait
their youth was halted in its tracks
as war torn Europe, faced Hitlers wrath.

Now aged 16, Tom soon filled out
and learned to put himself about
he’d watch his team at anfield play
he’d sing and shout, but got carried away.

He developed a taste for the local brew
and before each match, had quite a few
he’d run on the pitch to the penalty spot
but was unfortunately thrown out quite alot.

He wasn’t malicious, cruel or mean
his heart was big, but his pockets were lean
but like all folk from pre-war days
he had respect for his elders ways.

The sound of cheering and waving rattles
would soon be swapped for guns and battles
aged just 19, who would have guessed
he’d soon do battle, with Rommels best

Together with his older brother
he kissed the cheek of his tear-filled mother
in his uniform, with his packet of fags
and his lucky red hat, in his old kit bag.

Then off he went on a southbound train
en route to the battle of El Alamein
to the royal artillery, he was commissioned
with the 51st Gordon Highland Division.

He arrived in October of 42
as Monty’s 8th army were turning the screw
but nothing prepared him for what was to come
in the blistering, searing north African sun

They were given their orders, to relieve the front-line
but the path to Tripoli, was ladened with mines
so they’d all split up into 12 man platoons
then tip toe with death through the minefields and dunes.

There was just no escaping the sweltering sun
or the deafening noise of the bresa guns
there were flys in their thousands and nothing but sand
in this god forsaken war torn land.

They came to a clearing by a salt marsh trail
where abattle enraged, on a frightening scale
the shell fire was deafening, as smoke filled the sky
Tommy muttered a prayer 'Lord dont let me die.'

He reached in his pocket for his lucky red hat
things were looking real bad, for these desert rats
the German panzers had attacked from both flanks
leaving smouldering corpses, of burnt out tanks.

Then orders were given by Tommys command
to gain high ground and make a stand
he kissed his hat , as he put it away
then advanced with his troop, on his final day.

In the mayhem which followed, on that hot afternoon
there was all but 2, of his 12 man platoon
they were trapped in a crater, left by a shell
all around lay the bodies of those who had fell.

The soldier with Tommy, was hit and in pain
his trembling hand, held his cross and chain
he said 'Get me home' with a tear in his eye
'Just leave it to scouse' came Tommy’s reply.

So amidst the screeching of mortars and shells
he decided to dash, through this living hell
he took a deep breath, closed his eyes
touched his hat once again, then climbed over the rise.

But Tommys dash would be ill fated
as deaths dark angel calmly waited
for as he stood to make his run
he was sprayed with bullets, from an old nazi gun.

He danced in a death like a marionette
falling back in the crater, from which he’d just left
his injured friend crawled across where he lay
but the bright burning sun was now fading to grey.

As the blood from his headwound flowed into the sand
his weakening grip, dropped the hat from his hand
the lucky red hat which he treasured so much
lay tattered and bloodstained, in the African dust.

Then visions flashed before his eyes
of his Liverpool home, and times gone by
his tearful mother, and his childhood mates
waved up to the sky, from the dockyard gates.

As the African sands of time ran dry
a tear appeared in Tommys eye
as he thought of Anfield so far away
where he’d no longer watch his idols play.

It was at this point just before he died
that he turned to the soldier by his side
he reached out a hand, and pulled him near
then whispered his last words into his ear.

The month was January of 43
about 20 miles east of Tripoli
in the blistering heat, there was something cold
it was the body of a boy, just 20 years old.

The last words he uttered, through his dying breath
are a lasting legacy to Tommys death
some 60 years after his heavenly call
his words are now folklore, sang by us all.

The sacrifices that those boys made
seem long forgotten by folk these days
they died so we could all be free
they died for the likes of you and me.

So every time we sing that song
we must remember right from wrongs
we’ll sing it loud, and recall with pride
poor scouser Tommy, and the millions who died.
 

Reference: http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/66623-poor-scouser-tommy-untld-story-urchins.html

Thats a fine piece right there.  :wellin :wellin

..and i will be singing 'Libyan sun' from now on,great thread.
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