Topic: Climate Emergency is already here. How much worse it gets is still up to us (?)

[Elmo!]

You'll have to point it out, as I'm not sure what you or that film are trying to say??



I have a science degree and have studied climate change.

It's Abby Martin.... 9/11 truther and RT employee. Take from that what you will.

[Red-Soldier]

It's Abby Martin.... 9/11 truther and RT employee. Take from that what you will.

Fair enough.  Thanks.

[24/7]

Reminder - play the ball, not the player.

[Red-Soldier]

Met police ‘tried to recruit ex-officer to spy on climate change activists’

Former detective says he was asked to inform on fellow Extinction Rebellion campaigners

A former police officer who is now a prominent climate crisis campaigner has accused the Metropolitan police of attempting to recruit him to spy on Extinction Rebellion.

Former detective sergeant Paul Stephens, who joined XR after he retired from the London force in 2018, claims he was approached by an officer he knew near Parliament Square during the group’s campaign of non-violent mass civil disobedience in London in October 2019.

“He asked if I wanted to come on the books – to become a covert human intelligence source [Chis],” Stephens said. “But I turned him down straight away. I joined XR to make those in power do something about climate change, not to spy on peaceful people doing their bit for the planet.”

The Met said it could “neither confirm nor deny any Chis activity in relation to Extinction Rebellion”.

Stephens, who was liaising with the police on behalf of XR at the time of the approach, said it was immoral and a waste of resources to target people protesting to stop climate breakdown. “It is wrong to use these devious and intimidating tactics against peaceful protestors. XR is not an organised crime gang or terror cell,” he said.

“The police are desperate to find out who the organisers of Extinction Rebellion are, but there are no organisers. It is a fluid movement – not hierarchical, which the police seem to find very hard to understand.”

Stephens’s claims will raise concerns that the police, who are under intense pressure from the home secretary, Priti Patel, to crack down on the group, have been seeking to build up a network of informants inside XR, which is planning more protests in London in August.

It also comes in the midst of the inquiry into undercover policing, which was set up by the government in 2015 after it had emerged that covert officers had sexual relationships with at least 30 female activists and spied on up to 1,000 groups, including justice campaigns, leftwing parties and environmental movements, over 40 years.

Geraint Davies, chair of the all-party parliamentary group on democracy and the constitution, said: “Despite the public outcry around the use of covert human intelligence sources to infiltrate peaceful protest groups, it appears this practice is ongoing.”

Davies said undercover agents could encourage people to break the law: “The combination of police powers to ban protests for the risk of serious annoyance and legal immunity for covert agents means they could become agent provocateurs.”

The police are believed to be gathering vast amounts of information about XR activists, whom Patel has branded as criminals who threaten the “UK way of life”. Hundreds of phones and computers belonging to XR members have been seized since the group was set up in 2018.

“They have arrested close to 100 people for conspiracy to cause a public nuisance, with no one charged so far, but they have seized a hell of a lot of devices and gained a huge amount of information,” said Stephens.

There are at least four other ex-officers involved in XR, including an inspector and a chief superintendent.

Stephens, who served in the Met for more than 30 years, said: “My job in the police used to be about preventing immediate threats to life. But the threat to life from climate change is overwhelming.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/24/met-police-recruit-ex-officer-spy-climate-change-activists-extinction-rebellion

[TSC]

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-weather-dlr-station-underwater-and-flooding-across-london-as-thunderstorms-to-continue-into-monday-12364014

[24/7]

From local deluges to far off deadly drought...

Remember when we were saying wars will start because of water, not oil..........?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-57948717

Deadly street protests over Iran water shortages

Security forces in Iran's southwest Khuzestan province have been firing bullets at people protesting due to severe water shortages.

The shortages are happening in one of the country's hottest regions, where temperatures can reach 50 degrees Celsius.

Iran has called claims of a crackdown on protesters, by the UN rights chief Michelle Bachelet, "false accusations".

But the protests have developed into dissent against the government, the country's Supreme Leader and have spread to different cities.

BBC Persian's Rana Rahimpour explains.

(click on link to see video...)

[Red-Soldier]

Queen secretly lobbied Scottish ministers for climate law exemption

Monarch used secretive procedure to become only person in country not bound by a green energy rule

The Queen’s lawyers secretly lobbied Scottish ministers to change a draft law to exempt her private land from a major initiative to cut carbon emissions, documents reveal.

The exemption means the Queen, one of the largest landowners in Scotland, is the only person in the country not required to facilitate the construction of pipelines to heat buildings using renewable energy.

Her lawyers secured the dispensation from Scotland’s government five months ago by exploiting an obscure parliamentary procedure known as Queen’s consent, which gives the monarch advance sight of legislation.

The arcane parliamentary mechanism has been borrowed from Westminster, where it has existed as a custom since the 1700

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/28/queen-secretly-lobbied-scottish-ministers-climate-law-exemption

[wampa1]

It would be super cool if the fact that all of Turkey is on fire was garnering the same kind of mainstream attention as Australia a few years ago.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse?fbclid=IwAR2Di1RZQKtuXcty4WBxoQY0Dfk769bMVwMNt0GFop6tz9r-pTSeoQRicMU

[24/7]

Blimey, remember the first half hour or so of The Day After Tomorrow? 

(The bits before you basically need to suspend your disbelief for pretty much the rest of the film, like  )

[thejbs]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse?fbclid=IwAR2Di1RZQKtuXcty4WBxoQY0Dfk769bMVwMNt0GFop6tz9r-pTSeoQRicMU

Came here to post that. The timeline is terrifying. Could be well within our lifetimes.

[Snail]

Blimey, remember the first half hour or so of The Day After Tomorrow? 

(The bits before you basically need to suspend your disbelief for pretty much the rest of the film, like  )

Been thinking that for a while, we're living through the opening scenes of a disaster movie with "random unconnected news reports" on in the background.

[Snail]

Came here to post that. The timeline is terrifying. Could be well within our lifetimes.

*existential dread screams intensify*

[Nobby Reserve]

The UK is, geographically speaking, one of the best locations to withstand the impacts of climate change.

I think the first major crunch point will come from internal conflicts and mass-migrations (which will widen conflict arenas) caused by changing weather patterns that cause droughts and, to a lesser impacting level, floods.

It's also inevitable now. The developed world/West could increase its rate of cutting GHG emissions five-fold, but the increases in GHG emissions within the rest of the world more than replaces the savings.

Most of the increases in the developing world also stem from a combination of the massive rise in air con use; personal transport (like cars); production and consumption of consumer goods; and trying to ape the West on cultural issues like diet.

[Devon Red]

We need to stop with the 'it's too late' narrative. Climate change isn't a 'on' or 'off' situation, it's a scale. The question now is not if it will happen, it's to what degree will it happen. Keeping to 1.5c is much better than 2c. Every fraction of a degree above that is more suffering. Saying 'it's too late' is just another form of giving up.

[Red-Soldier]

We need to stop with the 'it's too late' narrative. Climate change isn't a 'on' or 'off' situation, it's a scale. The question now is not if it will happen, it's to what degree will it happen. Keeping to 1.5c is much better than 2c. Every fraction of a degree above that is more suffering. Saying 'it's too late' is just another form of giving up.

I agree.

It's also one of the things climate deniers use.  It's never too late to make a difference.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

We need to stop with the 'it's too late' narrative. Climate change isn't a 'on' or 'off' situation, it's a scale. The question now is not if it will happen, it's to what degree will it happen. Keeping to 1.5c is much better than 2c. Every fraction of a degree above that is more suffering. Saying 'it's too late' is just another form of giving up.

I'd love it if we suddenly decided to do what's necessary to reduce the impact of the rapidly increasing effects of climate change.

However I really can't see us: stopping the production of all unnecessary shite, massively reducing/stopping meat production, switching from cotton to hemp for clothes, banning all single use plastics, stopping electricity production using fossil fuels (with people having to accept using less power), making all consumer white goods easily reparable and limiting their disposal, producing plastics from hemp and other veg matter etc, etc.

For us to even have a glimmer of hope all this and more needs to happen ASAP, not in 5/10/15 years or whatever governments are saying at the moment.

Very few have an idea what we need to do and how quickly we need to do it and even less people actually care.

We need to massively change or lifestyles and most aren't prepared to do it. 

[24/7]

I agree.

It's also one of the things climate deniers use.  It's never too late to make a difference.

You're right. We could easily wait another generation. Then act. We'd then be slightly less massively fucked. As opposed to implementing massive change right now and being significantly less massively fucked....

[Snail]

I'd love it if we suddenly decided to do what's necessary to reduce the impact of the rapidly increasing effects of climate change.

However I really can't see us: stopping the production of all unnecessary shite, massively reducing/stopping meat production, switching from cotton to hemp for clothes, banning all single use plastics, stopping electricity production using fossil fuels (with people having to accept using less power), making all consumer white goods easily reparable and limiting their disposal, producing plastics from hemp and other veg matter etc, etc.

For us to even have a glimmer of hope all this and more needs to happen ASAP, not in 5/10/15 years or whatever governments are saying at the moment.

Very few have an idea what we need to do and how quickly we need to do it and even less people actually care.

We need to massively change or lifestyles and most aren't prepared to do it.

Love it when people tell me not to be defeatist and that there’s still hope and then I ask them what is being done - actual things that make a difference, rather than banning plastic straws - and it’s fucking crickets from them.

[Red-Soldier]

The latest IPCC report is out tomorrow - it will be a kick up the arse to all global leaders!

[Red-Soldier]

Love it when people tell me not to be defeatist and that there’s still hope and then I ask them what is being done - actual things that make a difference, rather than banning plastic straws - and it’s fucking crickets from them.

As an individual, it's easy to feel powerless, but collectively, we all can make a difference.

Perhaps there are some local green community groups you could get involved with. 

[TepidT2O]

We can change. Weve done it for the ozone layer. 

[Dr. Beaker]

I remember, a few years ago, being told that when the Gulf Stream turns off, Scotland immediately starts building up ice until it is two miles thick. Will that just be another story on the news? At what point do we start rioting on the streets.

[Red-Soldier]

We can change. Weve done it for the ozone layer.

Indeed.

An example of a great success story.  It was a single solution issue though - much easier to fix!

The Climate and Biodiversity crises require deep rooted systemic change - much more challenging.  We are talking about economic and societal restructuring. 

[filopastry]

Indeed.

An example of a great success story.  It was a single solution issue though - much easier to fix!

The Climate and Biodiversity crises require deep rooted systemic change - much more challenging.  We are talking about economic and societal restructuring. 

It also requires massive amounts of global cooperation and will be hugely expensive and disruptive to fix for all countries, sadly my optimism is not high, although it is obvious that it urgently needs to be resolved.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

As an individual, it's easy to feel powerless, but collectively, we all can make a difference.

Perhaps there are some local green community groups you could get involved with.

And this is actually part of the problem. For sure we can all do our little bits and it will make some difference.

However, if anything is really going to change then governments and big business need to immediately make huge changes, but it's not in their interests.

The everyone can make the difference through collective small changes idea plays into their hands and lessens their responsibility. This is way beyond being solved by everyone recycling and reducing their car journeys.

[Red-Soldier]

And this is actually part of the problem. For sure we can all do our little bits and it will make some difference.

However, if anything is really going to change then governments and big business need to immediately make huge changes, but it's not in their interests.

The everyone can make the difference through collective small changes idea plays into their hands and lessens their responsibility. This is way beyond being solved by everyone recycling and reducing their car journeys.

No, it's part of the solution.  There are many collectives out there - local groups creating/managing community gardens, orchards etc, as well as advocacy groups putting pressure on local and national governments - all of which are making a difference!  They are making a positive contribution to their local communities, as well as boosting their own mental health!

Collective action and public pressure can and will make a difference - why do you think the government called in the proposed new coal mine in Cumbria??

There is currently a vacuum of morals and leadership in our government - this is why we need local collectives now more than ever.

Tackling the biodiversity and climate crises is my work and my passion - I'm never going to give up!

[mallin9]

No, it's part of the solution.  There are many collectives out there - local groups creating/managing community gardens, orchards etc, as well as advocacy groups putting pressure on local and national governments - all of which are making a difference!  They are making a positive contribution to their local communities, as well as boosting their own mental health!

Collective action and public pressure can and will make a difference - why do you think the government called in the proposed new coal mine in Cumbria??

There is currently a vacuum of morals and leadership in our government - this is why we need local collectives now more than ever.

Tackling the biodiversity and climate crises is my work and my passion - I'm never going to give up!

There are some excellent posts in this thread, including this one. Well in, YNWA

[Red-Soldier]

There are some excellent posts in this thread, including this one. Well in, YNWA

Thanks 

YNWA!

[Indomitable_Carp]

Tackling the biodiversity and climate crises is my work and my passion - I'm never going to give up!

I am sure you´ve mentioned it before, but what is it you do Red-Soldier??

I would love to find a job related to helping fight this thing, but I have no science background.

[Snail]

So, that IPCC report...

[Red Raw]

...
I would love to find a job related to helping fight this thing, but I have no science background.

Carp mate, you don't need to be a scientist to work in this area - whatever your skills there will be something you can do. There are potentially loads of jobs in all kinds of fields which are needed as part of the climate response, in fact it is hard to think of an area where there isn't work to be done.

Awareness, education, communication, campaigning, fundraising either in the public or private sector are seriously important roles - scientists have a reputation (deserved or not) for being crap communicators and it is more important than ever to keep the public and the media onboard. 'Climate fatigue' is a clear and present danger.

Many thousands of skilled and unskilled workers are required in the building trades to upgrade the UK housing stock and increase the penetration of renewable energy. By 2050 agriculture is likely be the largest source of UK emissions and is among the most difficult sectors to decarbonise so there is a whole bunch of stuff to be done on our growing, eating and shopping habits. Currently transport is the major source of emissions and electric vehicles/charging networks are only a small part of the solution - modal shift, planning and development are all integral to chnanging the reasons and means we use to get about. Finance is often overlooked but remains a major barrier to green investment at all scales.

I will leave others to expand upon the many and varied roles related to the natural environment, but most will be aiming to increase the quality and capacity for carbon sequestration to offset activities that will otherwise struggle to decarbonise.

Circumstances led me to retrain about 18 years ago but, depending on your skillset and where your interests lie, retraining may not even be neccessary. As the proverb says; "the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now".

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

So, that IPCC report...

Oh but it's okay

we've got plenty of time....

 

[BobOnATank]

So, that IPCC report...

In short, we fucked and unless all governments make substantial changes asap then we are at least double fucked, probably triple fucked.

[BobOnATank]

https://www.floodmap.net/ have a look at this and set it at a 5 metre rise, which is a possible outcome, then zoom in on the east of England...

[Dench57]

In short, we fucked and unless all governments make substantial changes asap then we are at least double fucked, probably triple fucked.

"Vote for us and we will impoverish everyone in a way that up until recently would have been considered a nightmarish scenario, for the benefit of people in 50 - 100 years time when you will be long dead!"

Then you've also got telling other countries what they have to do, and them not agreeing - what do you do then?

[Snail]

In short, we fucked and unless all governments make substantial changes asap then we are at least double fucked, probably triple fucked.

So we're fucked, then, because there's not a government on the planet that's going to make any substantial changes. It feels like a doctor's told me I've only got 20 / 30 years left to live.

"Vote for us and we will impoverish everyone in a way that up until recently would have been considered a nightmarish scenario, for the benefit of people in 50 - 100 years time when you will be long dead!"

Then you've also got telling other countries what they have to do, and them not agreeing - what do you do then?

I suspect that "votes" and "elections" will become a thing of a past once shit really hits the fan. I also think wars are going to happen... I guess a nuclear winter would help cool things down a bit, looking on the bright side!

[Dench57]

So we're fucked, then, because there's not a government on the planet that's going to make any substantial changes. It feels like a doctor's told me I've only got 20 / 30 years left to live.

I suspect that "votes" and "elections" will become a thing of a past once shit really hits the fan. I also think wars are going to happen... I guess a nuclear winter would help cool things down a bit, looking on the bright side!

Yeah exactly. I just don't hold any hope in the governments and corporations of the world doing what needs to be done to halt/reverse this. I feel like our only chance is for a major scientific/tech breakthrough (like a plausible way of removing billions of tons of CO2 from the atmosphere).

[BobOnATank]

"Vote for us and we will impoverish everyone in a way that up until recently would have been considered a nightmarish scenario, for the benefit of people in 50 - 100 years time when you will be long dead!"

Then you've also got telling other countries what they have to do, and them not agreeing - what do you do then?

Change isn't always bad, how about an agreed % of GDP to invest in renewables and other carbon reduction technologies, that type of thing.

Also it isn't 50 - 100 years, pollution is making people very ill all across the world today. Take my small example, I suffer from eustachian tube dysfunction and a few years ago was put permanently on a steroidal spray which helped me manage the symptoms, doc at the time said it was probably pollution but not really sure. Feb last year I had a prescription renewal appointment and he asked me about how much I was taking it, told him I was minimising it as much as possible but he said that at the level I was taking it (under the prescribed dosage) I would lose my sense of smell, casually of course as doctors do, shit me up of course. Anyway the next month covid kicked in and I didn't have to travel to work anymore, a few weeks in and no need for any spray, been the same since.

[BobOnATank]

So we're fucked, then, because there's not a government on the planet that's going to make any substantial changes. It feels like a doctor's told me I've only got 20 / 30 years left to live.

Yup, lots of bluster that governments are going to make changes etc. supporting the message that we are just fucked then when those policies fail to emerge we will be heading to triple fucked which hopefully allows a huge change to swing it backed to double fucked. We need Paris twice as fast agreements type of changes!