Author Topic: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel  (Read 6802 times)

royhendo

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Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« on: August 10, 2012, 12:25:30 AM »
So. Crushing machine or domestic trouser press?

Offline StevenLFC

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2012, 06:41:12 AM »
First of all, the opposition were really poor so it's hard to judge how well we played. Having said that (warning: cliche coming) you can only beat what's put in front of you.


If you replace Shelvey with Joe Allen, it looks like the side we played yesterday will be our 'best' eleven, and it is a very strong side. What I did notice was how interchangeable the front four were yesterday. Gerrard, Downing, Borini and Suarez were very fluid. They looked threatening and I liked how many players we got into the box when the ball went wide.


All in all, in what was pretty much a competitive friendly (if that makes sense), I think yesterday showed that the players understand their roles and how the manager wants us to play. Onwards and upwards...

Offline Garstonite

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2012, 10:44:00 AM »
What's the deal with Henderson? Have I missed something, or does Rodgers just appear to favour Jonjo?

One comment I made last night was how structured we seemed to be. Yes, it was against a very second-rate opponent, but these are fundamentals. There were times last season when Skrtel and Carragher played centre-half together and they would rotate positions left and right. Baffling!

Right now, our system seems pretty set in stone. Besides Suarez who shouldn't be confined to any set position on the pitch, that is. Our three central midfielders have very clear instructions in their designated roles and I agree with StevenLFC above that Allen will most likely come in to where Shelvey operated yesterday. Jonjo is wasted in the 'ball recycling' position in the same way Gerrard is anyway, in my opinion and those two should battle it out for the position off the front this season.

Other than that, and I made the same point on my twitter while stumbling back from the pub last night, but Glen Johnson - what a player. The other half of Merseyside celebrated a testimonial for the most lead-footed, restricted full-back in the top flight on Wednesday. We celebrated a screamer from the best, most gifted full-back just a night later. Such is life.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 10:47:47 AM by Garstonite »

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2012, 03:03:38 PM »
The joy of seeing a plan taken from drawing board in the middle of July and already showing signs of life, eh? The number of times we heard the juxtaposed words 'Gerrard, Suarez,' on the commentary was a sign of where the dynamic lay but the solid structure underpinning all that creativity was extremely encouraging, as Garstonite points out. Early days, stiffer opposition to come along very soon, of course, and we are still bedevilled by a lack of strength in depth with just a couple of injuries blunting our penetration.

Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2012, 05:42:56 PM »
Bit of both Roy. Yes, I'm comfy on this fence!

Didn't manage to catch it live, but recorded the game and watched it after work. It was an impressive taster of things to come wasn't it? And the upshot is, on paper, it should become better over time.

Things that stood out:

Reina seemed to really thrive playing that sweeper keeper role again. His passing is superb, and it keeps his concentration levels up when he's playing that role - more involved y'see.

Kind of beating the same drum as I have for a while now, but what a footballer Glen Johnson is. He just oozes quality, and almost everything he does is intelligent and dangerous. Also - is he the only footballer who's weaker foot is in fact his strongest foot! His goal was really nice, and I wouldn't put it past him to chip in with 5 or 6 this season.

Enrique moved the ball on quicker, and his defending was reliable. I wonder if he can add a bit of brains to his game. He has everything there to be one of the best left backs in the business, but he does need to think things through a bit more. It'll be interesting to see how he plays Valencia when we come up against the Mancs early on, because last year he got shown up, badly.

Skrtel and Agger were their usual self. Comfortable on the ball and solid in their defensive work. Although Gomel weren't the best team I've ever seen, I thought their number 9 was a tidy player, and Agger and Skrtel kept him quiet. Please just keep those two together...

Lucas was just Lucas. Amazing how much poise and structure his presence adds to the team. He was moving the ball quickly, his stamina seemed good, and he even broke forward when he got the chance. He and Allen are going to dovetail wonderfully together. And why wouldn't they? They're both brilliant footballers.

Downing... hmm.... this is still a problem for me. FWIW, I like him and in the right team, I.e Aston Villa, he can be a really effective player. Still think he's all too prone to playing in straight lines, and I think that's going to be a problem for Rodgers. Ideally I think he'd have someone much more fluent playing out there. Gaston...!

Another lesson from last night... please play Gerrard off a front man. Just get that man as close to goal as possible, and watch how natural it looks to him. Remember his comeback game vs Newcastle last season? We were struggling through that game, but he was always the one that was looking most likely to make something happen. I recall saying to Rohit that he played the number 10 role more in the way Zidane or someone of that sort would that night. Less blood and thunder, but more guile. To be fair, last night was more the old Gerrard. He was looking as fit as he has been in a long time, and he must of covered a fair bit of ground. His link up with Suarez was a joy to behold. You only had to watch the Norwich game from last season to see that.

Borini looked the part too didn't he? Moves the ball into the right positions, pressed the ball consistently, and scored a really tidy goal. Helps that he knows what Rodgers wants from someone playing that role. I think those saying he was a more technically efficient Dirk are right. Going from last night anyway...

Suarez. A genius. Plain and simple. Some of the stuff he was pulling off last night was just outrageously good. Yes, it's only Gomel, but he's done it to the Mancs, Arsenal, Chelsea all on multiple occasions. I can only begin to imagine how hard it must be for a defender to try and read what he's going to do. When Torres was playing for us, his trademark move was dribbling through the left had channel, opening his body up for the right footed shot and then closing his body back inside to open up a scoring position. The goal that springs to mind is the one he scored at White Hart Lane a few seasons back. With Suarez, there's no trademark move. It's just amazing balance and coordination. He can move the ball 5 different directions in one 2 yard dribble. What chance do most defenders have against that?

People were quick to write him off playing that false 9 role last season, but what last night showed was he can do it, and do it well. He just needs the system in place, as well as the personnel.

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royhendo

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2012, 07:18:31 PM »
Over to you folks. :)

royhendo

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 07:20:34 PM »
Watched the game last night and  was very pleased with what I saw. Lets get the bad out of the way first though.

Profligacy. We still got it. Wasted a lot of good chances and possession in around the box. We coughed up possession easily, but not as a result of crappiness in the middle or backline, but because we were wasteful in the last third.

Scariness. Ho boy, the high jinks at the back with the ball are more than a little nerve-wracking. Playing around opposition strikers in our own box... I could feel the hair on my head standing up at one point. Buck needs to stop watching them Barca videos.

Opposition. Weren't very good, which makes it hard judge how good a performance it was. For example, in the hurly burly of the premiership will that high back line and attempts to play out of defence come undone more regularly

Sourness. Some sour points for a few of the players. Shelvey I feel was trying too hard, lucky not to be carded earlier and his driving runs to nowhere seemed to be borne of a desire to be the new Gerrard. He was much more effective when he played it simple. Downing, much more involved and penetrative, but them final balls still feel pointless to me. Adam. Came on, played a sumptuous ball out the left off his outside boot, floated like a bee as his opposite number sprinted past him with the ball, stung like a butterfly as he blundered into the back of his opponent later on, giving away a cheap free for no reason. Some things never change.

But these are real nitpicks in what, overall, was an extremely positive game. Why? Well firstly Buck picked the exact side I would have picked (bar maybe Shelvey for Henderson, but much of a muchness) had I been manager. And he set them up to play exactly how I would have wanted, so he must be right, right?

Jesting aside, the 433 really suited those players. Enrique and Johnson, let loose up the wing and removed of the need to defend in depth, are excellent attacking options and looked much happier in that role. Agger is made to play a highline (no coincidence that after that game Buck was fulsome in his praise and desire to keep Agger. Seeing him in action is an education) and Skrtel is just happy to have the Dane beside him to clean everything up. So, a happy settled backline, but ably assisted by an active midfield. Lucas was a joy to behold, at one point sprinting at a player. Player passed the ball on, Lucas kept sprinting and ran ball, player and himself off the pitch. Marvellous. Shelvey was a bit skittish and unsure, but provided a useful function, linking to Lucas and Gerrard. Gerrard though. How much more effective and happy is he to be given free reign without the drudgery of tracking back at his age. It was like 2008/9 all over again as Rodgers had him reprise his attacking role. Best I have seen him play in months.

The real damage was done up front. Suarezdependence. That's the only way to describe the team now. He is so frighteningly effective, so creative and busy, it fills me with fear to imagine the side without him. But in this game he was ably assisted by Borini, who looks a fantastic foil for him. He finds space, he works hard, he's clever in his movement and some of the interplay between Suarez, gerrard and Borini was superb. Beside them Downing still looks a bit meat and two veg, albeit more inclined to have a go and more effective further forward and downt he channels.

So, overall, very encouraging and best of all the balance looked excellent and the players looked really comfortable. I get the impression that if we dominate sides this year we could hump the shit out of them. The flipside though is I wonder how vulnerable they will look against a stronger, faster, more technically skilled side?

But lets put them concerns aside and just finish on a few minor observations;

- I can see exactly how Allen will fit into that side, but where does that leave Adam, Henderson, Spearing and Shelvey. Or Sterling, Pacheco and Suso for that matter. Thank god for Euro football to give more chances to the younger/fringe players eh?
- How hilarious were those ESPN morons? "Here's Spearing, it'll be interesting to see who comes out ahead in his battle for places this year, Spearing or Lucas" followed by dead silence of the 'are you shitting me?' variety by his co-commentator
- how bad was that linesman?

royhendo

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 07:23:06 PM »
Just watched the game for a second time and I believe it was as good a start to Rodger's Anfield career as he could of hoped for. I thought every player on the park played extremely well, especially considering how little that team has played together in the pre season. It was interesting to see Joe Allen at the game and he looks to be a done deal if the media are to be believed. I have seen him play a bit and he is a classy performer. Him and Lucas would be a brilliant partnership with Henderson as back up to those two and Shelvey as back up to Stevie. I do fear for Adam's future as I think he will only be a squad player at best. I hope he stays as we need the depth.

The link up play was exceptional and it seemed like Stevie and Louis have an excellent understanding. Borini's movement was excellent and some of the runs he made were pure class. He didn't get that final ball often enough but that will happen as the lads start to understand where he is going to be. Great to see him get a debut goal at Anfield as well. Stevie just has to play in the hole. He is immense in that role. I really don't want to see him coming back to get the ball off the centre halves unless we have a massive injury crises. If he can stay mostly injury free this season then I don't think scoring goals will be our problem. Louis was almost unplayable at times. If he keeps that up this season, there are going to be a few opposition defenders shitting themselves.  Even Downing was good tonight. He took players on and delivered some excellent balls.

How good is it to see Lucas back? We just look a different team with him there. He has such a calming influence. The defenders can play a bit higher and Stevie can get forward , knowing he doesn't have to track back as much. I see a couple of pages back someone thought Jonjo was lucky to not see red. I agree. He should have got a card in the first half and that tackle in the second half was bordering on a straight red. Studs up and sliding. I'll forgive it as youthful enthusiasm, but he needs to learn to control himself. He played quite well and I am torn between whether he should go out on loan and get some games under his belt, or stay as an understudy to Stevie. He needs games at his age but he is such a talented player, that he could come on with 20 to go in a tight game and make all the difference.

The back four were immense tonight and Pepe hardly had a thing to do. If we sell our best ball playing centre half and don't have a high quality replacement lined up (at the right price), then we are not really in the position that I thought we were. Even if we get 25 million quid, what are we losing? Probably close to the best ball playing centre half in the world. Danny is just so assured on the ball. He seems to have an eternity to find a player in a better position. That pass in the second half to Downing, the 50 yard cross field ball, was like a missile. If there is another centre half who can do that, I haven't seen him yet. Please Brendan, resist the urge and give him a new contract and he'll become the new Sami.

Watching that game was a pleasant experience. The hopes are building this season and reading through these pages, I think many are expecting a much improved year. I certainly am.

royhendo

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 07:24:02 PM »
Very entertaining game that was. We dominated a lesser team from start to finish, like we always did all these years, and very much last season. The difference between this game and the games where we absolutely tore teams a new one and yet failed to win last season was we were so much more in control when we did not have the ball. The closing down was superb, the two mid fielders retrieved balls beautifully and the front four ran their socks off. This might be that all these players are fresh but this is a definite shift from recent years.

The front four I was talking about, they were everywhere weren't they. Even Downing worked hard and attacked with purpose. Gerrard and Suarez were a force together and you have to wonder why Stevie was so underused after 2008-09 in the free role behind the striker. He is quite an unstoppable force there. That flick overhead to Suarez, WOW!

I'll admit I haven't watched Borini at all earlier, but today I am convinced he would go on to be a cracking player. His movement, touches, positioning and work rate are top notch. The way he got into goal scoring position whilst still playing out wide makes me very pleased. We need such players who gamble well and get into the box in time. Maxi was one such, Borini seems to be a similar player but more direct.

Special praise to Lucas and Shelvey, especially. Lucas, we've started expecting a level of performance and he's been delivering consistently, so there is no surprise there. But Shelvey was so mature yesterday. Worked hard, complimented Lucas and played a very neat game throughout. I hate to say it but the gulf in class was very much apparent once Lucas and Jonjo were replaced by Spearing and Adam.

Enrique was getting a bit of flak recently but he turned in a decent performance last night. Solid defensively as ever and pushing on and making intelligent simple passes when required. His dwelling on the ball was much less visible in that display. Johnson on the other side was magnificent. No amount of overrating Walker, Richards and other right backs can take away the fact that Glen Johnson is one of the best right backs in the game and certainly the best in the country.

Finally, some of the short passing close to our goal scared the living shit out of me but I'm glad we're trying to take a few risks to make things work rather than unnecessarily booting balls down blind alleys.

Overall, a solid performance to begin the season. There is still a lot of room for improvement though, and I know both the team and Rodgers recognize that. A couple more players in and I'd be quietly confident about this season. We should just mentally tune ourselves and turn these flashes into consistent week-in-week-out displays - something which has not been happening in the past 20+ years.

royhendo

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 07:24:32 PM »
Well what a pleasant surprise that was. After the first leg I thought we'd still win it, but as we were getting back to fitness and adapting to Rodgers' ideas we'd probably get another 1-0. Plus the opposition proved to be a  tricky side at home (and didn't deserve to lose, in all honesty) so looked capable of giving us a scare or two.

Turns out we bossed them the entire match and created some absolutely fantastic fluid attacking moves! Great interplay with Gerrard, Suarez, Borini and even Downing at times. Johnson was superb and Enrique also looked to be more like he was when we signed him rather than his more erratic end-of-season form. Nothing to say about the centre backs, they were rarely troubled and looked assured as ever. Can't say I noticed Lucas much in this match, but I'm delighted he came through another game and got more minutes under his belt. Jonjo was a bit wild (a bit like Stevie at times though!) with his tackling but he's clearly enjoying playing and really enthusiastic.

Only thing I can even say that's slightly negative is about Adam who looked off the pace when he came on and got caught in possession a few times, but how fit he is compared to the rest of them I'm not sure so I'm not criticising him too harshly.

It sounds like we played the best game ever and of course it wasn't. But it was nice to see a comfortable game in Europe and see the full strength side look so commanding - bodes well for this season if we can add a couple of players (obviously Allen, seeing as he watched the game at Anfield) and keep Agger, I think. So roll on a week Saturday, can't wait to see us give WBA some of this :D

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 07:26:01 PM »
Was great to get back to Anfield tonight, cracking weather to go with the performance as well, walking through Stanley Park with the sun shining and red shirts everywhere, I've missed football.

Yeah everyone knows Gomel aren't the best opposition but as has been pointed out they are halfway through their season therefore their players are bound to be more match fitter than our players. And you can only beat what is in front of you and we done that well, in the past a game like that could of been a struggle for us but that was not the case tonight.

Suarez was immense, Borini put a good shift in and was delighted for him to score on his Anfield debut, great to see Lucas play nearly the full 90 as well. Hopefully more of the same against West Brom next week.

royhendo

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 07:26:30 PM »
Looked very good on the pitch - obviously Gomel had nothing to offer in return, we had about 95% of the ball, but good movement and linking up. Borini just fit in perfectly, looked really decent, debut goal to boot!

Bit worried about Agger leaving, he spend a good while clapping the supporters (had a couple of songs sung for him) and then threw his shirt into the crowd. :-\

Not so happy with the pre-match stuff- why did we have to sing YNWA to an empty pitch, 10 minutes before kick-off? Carra being congratulated and (i think) Rodgers introduced just before kick-off, when the Kop is in full voice, so that you couldn't hear anything? Think they could've timed it a bit better, maybe do the stuff before YNWA and then start the match as normal.

Also, since when do half the Kop boo the other half because there's a song being sung they don't agree with?



And Warrior, please fuck off with that "We come not to play" shite. It's plastered all around the ground, it's not clever, it's just shit.



Ah, it's good to be back. :)

royhendo

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 07:29:32 PM »
That was actually some great football to watch.

I had anticipated us playing at the sometimes sluggish pace that Barca or Swansea last season tend to play, but that was completely different.  What it reminded me of, more than anything, was how we played against Real Madrid in that 4-0 demolishing 4 seasons ago.  Pass-and-move, but at pace.  Pressing high up the pitch with great movement and players looking to capitalise when we won the ball back.

I don't want to get carried away, because it's only a Belarussian team, but if we play anything like that then you won't hear any complaints from me, even if it takes a few months for the results to come.  It's just so enjoyable to watch football played like that.

Gerrard and Suarez were brilliant, I was impressed with Shelvey and Borini as well.  In fact, the only player I would say wasn't good was Adam, and that's harsh as he only played a few minutes.  Even Downing was impressive.

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 09:31:44 PM »
Play like that every week and forget Champions League. We'll win the fucking league!

It's nice to be back isn't it? And while it seemed a stroll in the park, it was a lot better than a meaningless friendly with 37 substitutions. We got a decent workout against a team who were well into their season and had been working together for months, not days like us. Regardless of whether they were from Belarus or the Barlow Arms, if we concentrate on what we're doing rather what other teams want to do, we'll win more than we lose, I'm sure of it. Fuck the negatives. Big positives for me I suppose were Downing looking like he is working hard to carry out Brendan's instructions, Borini looking like he's very clever in and around the box and linking up with Gerrard and Suarez well. To improve on last season, we need our front four gelling together quickly, and yesterday was a bright start, so here's for more to come. Biggest positive of all though is Lucas. Forget about him not being back to his outstanding best, I fucking love the lad and just seeing him start was the icing on a very tasty cake.
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 09:38:48 PM »
Biggest thing that impressed last night was the movement in and around the box. Alright Gomel aren't world beaters, but we showed a greater willingness to throw people forward in attacks and importantly have them flood the box, rather hang around the fringes. For example, there was a moment in the second half when I think Suarez (?) had a shot, which just snared wide, but we had Borini rushing in, which not only gives us someone who can retrieve the potential rebound, but also puts additional pressure on the keeper.

Borini looks like he's going to be a great addition to a fluid, interchangeable front three that will look to swap positions. Johnson was superb and engaged in plenty of runs down the flanks. His goal was majestic. Downing also put in a shift. Overall, it was a comfortable game, which displayed patience, confidence and composure. I think it's becoming clearer how certain players will fit in as pieces in Rodgers' jigsaw. Hopefully, it sparks some momentum for our fixture against West Brom.

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2012, 09:47:09 PM »
That was an impressive display of our attacking abilities. I would say that is pretty close to our first team and there is not much more I can add. It would be like analysing last weeks performance which was played in sapping conditions without our best players.

So to me this performance has shown we have the players to get us goals and link up play and everyone did what they were told to do and another clean sheet with Enrique Gerrard and of course Suarez standing out.
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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2012, 09:47:22 PM »
I noticed, watching live, that Gerrard didn't do much tracking back, in fact I can't recall him tracking back once. It was beautiful to watch. Seeing Gerrard stay up the pitch in the final third playing and not breaking his neck to help out with counters bodes well. Gerrard should be able to play in a hell of a lot more games this season if he conserves his energy like this.

A further observation about this, in the first leg Gerrard was tracking back, he was helping out the two pivots until Lucas came on and Rogers restructured the midfield - something he mentioned in the post match conference. Now, at the risk of being heavily presumptious, I think Rogers looked at that first leg and decided 75 mins in  that CM isn't where Gerrard will do the most damage. 75 mins. That is decisive management and it shows a level of analysis which I don't feel Kenny brought to the coaching set up last year.

Final point, if you put our lineup down - Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Enrique; Shelvey, Gerrard, Lucas; Downing, Borini, Suarez. The weakest links are Downing and Shelvey, IMO, the signing of Allen already improves on that first 11 and subsequently helps the structure of the entire team settle. As a result I'd say Allen is an astute signing, you look at it and immediately think, I know exactly where he is going to fit in and I am very confident it will improve the team.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 09:50:13 PM by Garcepticon »

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2012, 09:51:58 PM »
During the play the led to Borini's first goal, we had all 4 attacking players in the box.  Not only just in the box but standing as corners in an almost perfect rectangle ready to attack the ball wherever it could land.  No more of this Downing running over with no one to aim at, or suarez dodging 2 defenders only to run into 3 more with no support in sight. 

I hope we get off to a good start against the tough run of games in the beginning, but even if we don't I'll be happy as long as the players show that they are giving their all for the team, while continueing to adapt to this style of play.  The pressing really suprised me, and it appeared to really please Brendan when he talked about it after the game, I thought play like that was going to show itself this early in the season.  Game was a decent showing against relatively easy opponents, but if the players master this style we will be formidable again.

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2012, 09:52:14 PM »
Since the final whistle went I've undertaken a yogi-like mantra: "It was only Gomel".

When I see the return of asphyxiating patient build-up play and ball retention, of an interchanging front 4, of every position (goalkeeper included) playing football, of a back-line so high they already think we're into the final in Amsterdam, of Lucas Leiva, of men in the box, of NUMEROUS MEN IN THE BOX!, OF NUMEROUS MEN IN THE BOX READY FOR REBOUNDS!, of Steven fucking Gerrard playing off the front man in his one true position, of Luis Suarez LEADING THE LIVERPOOL LINE, of pressing, of glorious unrepentant fear inducing pressing, I repeat my mantra.

It was only Gomel

In Kenny's first 6 month's back I was lovestruck. Here was a Liverpool legend ready to play an interchangeable front 4 in an attacking style, it didn't always work but it was valiant to the point it didn't have to, there was an innate beauty in a Liverpool team once again finding, and refining, it's old identity. The sad deterioration of this ethos was hard to bear for all Liverpool fans, we made our excuses but deep down I felt it wasn't working.

Over the summer I've been reading the old Level 3 thread, nostalgic for a time when tactics could be obsessed over, when minuscule hand gestures were compared with advanced martial arts, those were the days.  I'm feeling those twangs again, of every moment being calculated, of every sideways and backwards pass a thread in a football tapestry, when I see Joe Allen sat in the stands, when Clint Dempsey's name is mentioned, when BRENDAN RODGERS WEARS A SUIT! I get carried away, any significant length of time spent talking about Liverpool relights the fire in the heart, I'm counting the days on my calendar, I'm excited. Mantra.

It was only Gomel

I could make this thread stretch into 10 pages in one post so I have to stay brief. Yes, yes, yes, yes. 

And if Danny Agger goes I promise to personally twat John Henry's speccy fucking face.

We need cover for Lucas.

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2012, 09:58:13 PM »
The cover might be sorted but if the need comes and you are going to go through with the speccy bashing I will assist in any way I can.
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Offline Red Bird

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2012, 10:03:20 PM »
Remember last season when, fully fit and match sharp, we would have struggled against a side as "poor" as this? I see the makings of crushing  machine, Roy, but we need to bear the trousers pressing moments as we make our way to being that. Say, was there just a hint of Benitez's 08/09 side or am I just seeing things?

Offline redforlife

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2012, 10:07:13 PM »
Early days but the interchange between Suarez, Borini and Gerrard and to a lesser extent Downing, was nice and encouraging to see. And it hasn't taken Rodgers long to find out Gerrard belongs in the front 4. I'd personally have him starting from the right such is his crossing ability but good to see him being played forward and staying there. Can't believe we'd start the season with no additions on the wings though given we've lost 3 from last season.

Suarez - what can I say about him that hasn't already been said and could actually do his justice. Sort his finishing out and we have one of our greatest ever players on a long term deal. I really believe he's that good.

The back 4 plus Lucas almost seem to operate in a W formation at times, with Lucas sitting in front of our classy centre halves and the full backs given license to get forward, and we saw how well Johnson did with that freedom

Plenty of encouragement to be taken from last night, obviously bigger tests are to come but a clear step forward from last week.  Another week of learning how Rodgers wants them playing but also the return of Agger, Suarez, Lucas to the starting XI.

Such is the fickle nature of football that moods and outlooks can be determined in the short term by one result, but with 2 wins and 2 clean sheets from 2 games, we can be happy with the shape we're in for West Brom.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2012, 10:07:34 PM »
They gave us a lot of room but some of the movement up front and the hunger to get the ball back was good to see, wanted Suarez to get a goal he deserved it, and in a weird way one of the highlights was Pepe threading that pass between two oncoming players in the first half, we know he is a frustrated CM but that was class.
In the games I have watched so far Downing is playing better in this formation and style prefer him on the right suits him better. Also Stevie has to be in or around the front three his partnership with Luis is almost telepathic but not in a Toshack/Keegan way yet!

In the end job done they can only beat who are in front of them, but saw enough to give me hope for the season.
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Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2012, 10:12:11 PM »
Enrique moved the ball on quicker, and his defending was reliable. I wonder if he can add a bit of brains to his game. He has everything there to be one of the best left backs in the business, but he does need to think things through a bit more. It'll be interesting to see how he plays Valencia when we come up against the Mancs early on, because last year he got shown up, badly.

I really don't know about Enrique anymore. His pace and his strength are huge assets when we are defending, but he really doesn't offer much going forward. He seems to move, think, and pass in straight lines and I'm not sure if Rodgers will tolerate that for long. Maybe Robinson takes over before the end of the season?

With Suarez, there's no trademark move. It's just amazing balance and coordination. He can move the ball 5 different directions in one 2 yard dribble.

I don't know, he really really loves that nutmeg move  ;).

Biggest thing that impressed last night was the movement in and around the box. Alright Gomel aren't world beaters, but we showed a greater willingness to throw people forward in attacks and importantly have them flood the box, rather hang around the fringes.

Yes. IMO, our inability to score goals last year was mainly due to lack of "cheap" goals, meaning goals scored by pressing the opposition into mistakes in their own half (seemed to happen all the time with Rafa, usually culminating with a Torres goal) and goals from just having those extra bodies in the box to capitalize on crosses, rebounds, and deflections. Barca are masters of the former, United are masters of the latter.



Offline Sangria

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2012, 10:19:44 PM »
Also Stevie has to be in or around the front three his partnership with Luis is almost telepathic but not in a Toshack/Keegan way yet!

The bit where Gerrard dummied the ball  through to Suarez who reversed it back to Gerrard was Torres-esque though.
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Offline Not funny reecehenebry

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2012, 10:28:05 PM »
Since the final whistle went I've undertaken a yogi-like mantra: "It was only Gomel".

When I see the return of asphyxiating patient build-up play and ball retention, of an interchanging front 4, of every position (goalkeeper included) playing football, of a back-line so high they already think we're into the final in Amsterdam, of Lucas Leiva, of men in the box, of NUMEROUS MEN IN THE BOX!, OF NUMEROUS MEN IN THE BOX READY FOR REBOUNDS!, of Steven fucking Gerrard playing off the front man in his one true position, of Luis Suarez LEADING THE LIVERPOOL LINE, of pressing, of glorious unrepentant fear inducing pressing, I repeat my mantra.

It was only Gomel

In Kenny's first 6 month's back I was lovestruck. Here was a Liverpool legend ready to play an interchangeable front 4 in an attacking style, it didn't always work but it was valiant to the point it didn't have to, there was an innate beauty in a Liverpool team once again finding, and refining, it's old identity. The sad deterioration of this ethos was hard to bear for all Liverpool fans, we made our excuses but deep down I felt it wasn't working.

Over the summer I've been reading the old Level 3 thread, nostalgic for a time when tactics could be obsessed over, when minuscule hand gestures were compared with advanced martial arts, those were the days.  I'm feeling those twangs again, of every moment being calculated, of every sideways and backwards pass a thread in a football tapestry, when I see Joe Allen sat in the stands, when Clint Dempsey's name is mentioned, when BRENDAN RODGERS WEARS A SUIT! I get carried away, any significant length of time spent talking about Liverpool relights the fire in the heart, I'm counting the days on my calendar, I'm excited. Mantra.

It was only Gomel

I could make this thread stretch into 10 pages in one post so I have to stay brief. Yes, yes, yes, yes. 

And if Danny Agger goes I promise to personally twat John Henry's speccy fucking face.

We need cover for Lucas.
Sometimes it's easy to forget than Agger, Lucas, Gerrard, Reina, Skrtel, and Johnson have all played in Rafa's 4231 system and understans it very well. Suarez played a 433 with Ajax.

Our best players are best suited to this football, clever, smart football. Rafa had to change the whole thing from players to tactics and youth.

Brendan has that at his fingertips with a good few of the players. I think the only worries last night were Enrique, who doesn't have a great footballing brain, and Downing who have the attributes to be good for this side, but hasn't really ever played in a team that needed that from him.

Johnjo needs some time, he will be a great player. Excited about Allen.
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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2012, 10:28:19 PM »
A start. Borini said something post-match about Rodgers telling him [them?] to go out and start as they mean to go on. If this the start and there's more to come, we've a chance haven't we?

Gomel were poor, but we dominated them. They pressed high, we released Suarez (linesman not withstanding). They sat deep, we were 2-0 up already and just toyed the ball around them.

Thought the match also demonstrated a little better just what we need from players under Rodgers and perhaps showed why he was so insistent on being able to move on players he thinks won't fit in. We know who the likely suspects are but we'll see if they can demonstrate the flexibility and nouse to get played. Those with doubts would seem likely to be proven correct.

My concern is that outside that first team, we're looking a little weak in playing this way. Couple of injuries and we'll see a huge difference in performances (but then what's new since 2009?). Is Rodgers flexible enough and pragmatic enough to not expose those players coming in? I'm not sure and that may be where we'll fall down this season unless some of the young lads really push on this season. You can see the attraction of a loan or two to fill the gaps.

Even appreciating that limited squad depth in terms of quality, I'm another whose toys will go out of the pram if we aren't seriously trying to retain Dagger.
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Offline koolkamal

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2012, 10:30:27 PM »
Not much more I can add that hasn't already been mentioned.

Loved Suarez doing that little 'Iniesta move' the ball from left to right to left leaving the defender on his ass.

Love Lucas passing. Quick, crisp perfectly weighted pass that just triggers a one touch pass and move throughout the rest of the attack. Got forward quite well too winning the ball back in the attacking third.

Glen Johnson - the John Barnes of fullbacks? Better looking though :D

Reina looked a lot more comfortable playing that sweeper keeper role. Like has been mentioned earlier the pass in between two on rushing players to Lucas was great.

Downing looked better. A bit more intelligent in the way he played. If he can continue and add some goals which he'll have to if he's going to play that role he could be a decent option to have.

Agger simply class. He'll stay as well. He's been telling every fan he meets that he's not leaving.

Borini looks like he'll settle pretty easily. Good movement, works extremely hard, intelligent positioning and pressing really well.

Gerrard was flamboyant. He's just so much better in that role than anywhere else. Better defending from the front. Pressed really well too.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2012, 11:12:30 PM »
Not much more I can add that hasn't already been mentioned.

Loved Suarez doing that little 'Iniesta move' the ball from left to right to left leaving the defender on his ass.

Love Lucas passing. Quick, crisp perfectly weighted pass that just triggers a one touch pass and move throughout the rest of the attack. Got forward quite well too winning the ball back in the attacking third.

Glen Johnson - the John Barnes of fullbacks? Better looking though :D

Fuck off. Barnes was one of the lookers of the late 80s side. Now Beardsley and Lawrenson, they're entirely different. Staunton, Ablett and Burrows too. Barnes seemed to have eaten up all the handsome quotient on that left flank, along with a good proportion of the forward line up too. You had to get far away from the left wing, as far as centre back, before there were enough looker resources to fuel a Hansen.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline ConqueredAllOfEurope

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2012, 01:39:41 AM »
Andrew Beasley ‏@BassTunedToRed
Agger, Lucas, Gerrard & Suarez all start tonight - at no point last season in any competition were they on the pitch at the same time

I actually did not know that and Thursday showed how dangerous we can be when we have our best players all playing at the same time. The passing was great but more importantly the pressing from ALL of our players was brilliant and we were doing this constantly for 90 mins. And how great was Suarez, fucking inspirational. After watching him play you feel like lacing up your own boots and start playing.

Replace Shelvey with Allen and Downing (although he did play well) with another forward (Tello/Dempsey/Ramirez etc...) and I say we will be a strong force this coming season.
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Offline DanA

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2012, 07:01:08 AM »
Long read this thread but a good one. In agreement with most on here but the one area I think I differ is on Downing.

A few have mentioned him as a weakness but I thought Downing was fantastic, really really impressive and if anything a real asset in the side. He wasn't the best player on the pitch but I thought he was brilliant and added balance to what looked a promising attack.

I sure we all shudder thinking back to last season but against Gomel it was chalk and cheese in comparison. Last season how often did we see him run down the left flank, Enrique in toe two feet away, Carroll flat footed in the box (poorly positioned), Suarez double marked, Henderson wide right somewhere near the half way line and a distinct lack of threatening runs from midfield. Sound familiar? 9/10 times he'd do one of two things; Pass back to Adam or fizz in a "dangerous" cross to nobody. It was groundhog day for near on 38 league matches and had me pulling my hair out.

This game was different though. Yes it was Gomel but it's not about what they did, it's what we did. The shape and movement around Downing was so much more promising because he was surround by goal threats that complimented his skill set. Downing was able to create for them and rarely if ever did I think he made a bad decision. I thought it was a tremendous and hugely underestimated performance.

Dare I say I have hope for Downing, hope I didn't have a few month ago. I don't think too many of the players we are linked with could do a better job (Affelay probably would). It's well document the paradox in Downing's stats, the number of chances created vs assist but the difference between this season and last is I think we have the right players capable of capitalizing. We saw how small an opportunity Borini needs and we now what Gerrard & Suarez can do. I think Downing on the right could....in fact I think he will be boss this season.
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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2012, 08:32:18 AM »
And if Danny Agger goes I promise to personally twat John Henry's speccy fucking face.

;D

Offline underdog

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2012, 09:53:18 AM »
I think most of my feelings have been covered by others already. Suarez being brilliant, Lo ing the fact Gerrard isn't being asked to defend, Lucas bring back etc but the one thing that struck me was that the game was entertaining. So many times over the last x amount of years typically those types of games was just us trudging through and relying on a bit of Gerrard greatness or a late Dirk winner to get us a result but the game was entertaining, all the players worked hard for 90 minutes and played good exciting football.

Offline nocturnalvin

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2012, 10:00:48 AM »
This is what we should be doing to smaller teams week in week out. No time to even breathe.

And whilst some people are jerking off to a potentially superb Gerrard-Suarez axis, i think Borini and Suarez will be the duo giving nightmares with their perpetual movement.

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2012, 11:16:43 AM »
Got to the game on Thursday for the first time in 3 years (live in Norn iron, so it's just not handy for me) and was impressed with what I seen. I loved the way Suarez, Borini, Downing and Gerrard seemed like a front 4 at times, interchanging, fluid, it was a joy to watch. Was impressed with Agger, made some terrific tackles. It'll be a travesty if he leaves. Lucas looked like he's slowly coming back too.

I know a lot of people will question the quality of the opposition, but its the "lower" quality sides that we have struggled to break down over the years, so it was nice to see a few goals. 100% start for Rodgers too!  ;D
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Round table - Liverpool 3-0 Gomel
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2012, 12:39:57 PM »
As a first impression, this quote of Enrique sums it up for me at the moment...

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/7979821/Enrique-backs-Rodgers-regime

"In Spain many teams play like this. Of course, it depends on the quality of the players, but we are trying."

I liked what I saw,  despite some obvious work-in-progress flaws (gaps too big for playing with more pace, defending pretty unorganised yet), especially Gerrard further up the pitch together with Suarez and the return of Lucas, the overall effort of the players and creativity of our most talented ones.

But considering the start of the season being just around the corner, I fear the relief to see some passing football again might not be enough yet for our upcoming fixture list and hopefully we donīt fall for the same mistake as last season trying to change too many things at once within a very short period of time.

Rodgers seems to be very passionate on the way he wants us to be playing which makes you think he wonīt give in for a more defensive approach if necessary. With our current squad though, we are just too vulnerable as the system leaves little to no room for individual weakness. Only two injuries would hurt us dramatically. As Enrique said, the players will decide on the success of Rodgers vision in our first season and Rodgers himself pointed out the importance for bringing in the players necessary for our way to play.

So I think the transfers will decide on the first half of the the season, if we get this right we can take it from there. Letīs hope we donīt waste too much time here, nail the transfers necessary as soon as possible and we will be fine.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 12:48:18 PM by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10