Topic: I'm really genuinely concerned...no rant intended

[Gnurglan]

It's laughable mate, it says a how much you have to stretch to fit your desire that Rafa wasn't up to it. The list was: Keane, Riera, Ngog, Dossena, Cavalieri, Aquilani, Johnson, Soto.

Keane : 19     Sold: 16 (£12m fee will rise quickly to nearer £16m with further ambitious add-ons, linked to silverware he claims at Spurs, to see up to £19m change hands again. )
Riera: 8 Sold: 3.3
Ngog: 1.5 Sold: 4
Dossena: 7 Out: 4.7
Aquilani: 17.1 (we paid this much, didn't fulfill the rest)
-breakdown: £255,000 for each time LFC reach the Champions League from 2010/11 - 2014/15.
- £212,000 after Aquilani plays 35, 70, 105 and 140 games.
- £850,000 if LFC win the Premier or Champions League before 2014.
Soto: 2 Sold: Free
Cavalieri:3.5    Sold: 3
Johnson: 17.5

total loss: 10


Transfer fees from lfchistory.net

Ngog (1.5), Soto (2) Cavalieri (3.5) - A fortune? Spirit crushingly disastrous? Haha. I'm sorry, but what the fuck are you on about. Keane, Aquilani sure, but then say Keane and Aquilani - why the need to tag on the squaddies to denigrate the man? Trying, trying, trying, stretching to justify your stance on him.


The only transfers more than 10 million were Keane, Johnson and Aquilani. Johnson is worth the money, Keane was poor even though we got back most of the money (poor in the opportunity cost sense), Aquilani's poor (and we will lose significantly on him). Everything else we either didn't lose too much, made a profit, or was a player who was integral for the title challenge (Riera). Even if you added up how much we lost on the players posted (10), and include Aquilani's future loss also, the potential loss we'll make on Carroll alone may go a long way towards matching that total, much less Adam or Downing. Rafa's were over two seasons, this is one season.

Rafa can be nicely forgotten and we can get on with the new boss if some of you didn't have to keep trying to justify yourselves for not backing a man you were supposed to back. 

Edit: edited to add on aquilani's potential loss to that 10 if you so wish.

 

Look, I'm a massive supporter of Rafa and how he handled things. I wasn't having a go at him. It's a mistake if it came across like that. Rafa made some errors, but everyone does. I think it's fair to acknowledge that he made mistakes. But he fought very hard to improve. I respect that, even if he made errors.
There's no doubt though that since he left, we have just gone worse. If Rafa made errors, then Purslow/Hodgson did far more damage. They were directly incompetent and you could even ask if they tried to wreck us on purpose. That's how poor they were.

Unfortunately, we then made the huge error with Carroll. Kenny & Comolli had good intentions, but they were far too generous with money and that has put us in a difficult situation now. We all know the mistakes. I'd like to move on to something else:

What I lack these days is the spirit where I feel we're making the right calls. This is key for me. Because we'd take steps forward. Slowly, but we'd move forward. Do we? I don't sense it. We'll never be 100% right, but it's like we try to be clever and we make things more difficult for ourselves. The first such move was Cole. He was paraded as this super signing and it was just a big circus act to paper over the cracks. We like to sell an image, but we are not willing to do the hard work where we fight to get the best possible players, fight for every pound and for every ball. It's all casual, it's talk and we live on our history.

If we talk specifically FSG, they've made a few strange twists themselves. It started with Moneyball and oh how clever we are. Another image. Step forward Comolli, the Billy Beane of football with magic formulas in his computer. New era and out with all the crappy scouts. And we have never been more wrong in the transfer market. Then we moved on to the new manager selection. Moores and Parry went to secure one of the top names at the time. Sound policy.
FSG actively IGNORED the top names who were available for FREE and PAID to get Rodgers in. That's a massive gamble and this is what I mean with us trying to be clever. It's the same spirit as selling Torres and buying Carroll and then parading it all as a step forward. It's just a bet. It may work, I seriously hope it does, but we do it so often that it appears our great masterplan is just hit and hope. We're a toy.

I'd like us to drop the circus acts and get down to the hard work we require to be back in top four. The best bet now is Rodgers. Because this is his chance to prove himself. I pray he's got what it takes. I wouldn't even mind if he sold ten players in a big clearout, as long as he sold the right players and not just the ones who are easy to shift. We need to put an end to the mess we're in and we need to start moving in a new direction where we value hard work and reward those who deliver.

[And Could He Play]

anyone who freely uses the word moneyball needs locking up, its a word from a hollywood movie and means nothing.

your finished, there is no coming back from it.

[CraigDS]

They have interest in improving the side, of course they do, everyone does. But it comes down to what they're prepared to risk to improve the side. So will they show ambition with our increased revenue and pay big wages for big players? Or will they keep the ship steady and make the club a profitable, very sellable asset?

That's what it comes down to. No one's saying they aren't doing well at the commercialization side of things, even if it's not to everyone's tastes. I've seen more partners, launches and brand awareness excercises than I know what to do with since FSG took over and, as much as it leaves a nasty taste, I can see the 'good' it's doing to our bank account. But this is all a moot point if it's not re-invested in the playing side. And no, I'm not after a sugar daddy, and no I don't want us to do a Leeds. I just find it strange that amongst all this increase in revenue, we're looking to slash the wage bill. Did Brendan Rodgers really decide Gylfi wasn't worth the wages? Is he not only our manager but also our accountant now?

Of course FSG want to see us up the league, champions even, certainly in the CL year on year. But I don't know what they're willing to do to get us there. At present it seems they are hoping for Brendan to pull one out the bag - hell they aren't alone as I am too - but that doesn't seem like the best strategy to me.

Agree with all of this.

They have cut the wage bill by cutting players who don't offer what they are paid. I don't think that is such a bad thing. If that then means we can both increase the wages of those who do deserve it (Skrtel, Agger, Suarez) and buy in others then perfect. I'm not really losing sleep over the players who have been sold be it if they were on £1 a week or £100,000. It does remain to be seen what they do with this extra wage capacity though I agree.

I would imagine Rodgers has a big say in both fee and wages of any target. Look what happened when Rafa seemingly didn't and Parry went out and signed Keane over Barry for the fee he did. Rodgers wouldn't want, for example, 25% of his wages budget for this summers transfers taking up on Sigi if he felt he needed some of that % for bigger and better targets (or at least more important).

[Mutton Geoff]

Then why hasn't Suarez been pushed out the door? If Kenny was damaging it in support of him, then surely Suarez has done more so?

Because Suarez is a bigger financial asset For FSG than Kenny was!

[CraigDS]

Kenny was caretaker manager at the time. Remember that.

I'm off to work now.

So they give the caretaker manager the ability to spend £35m, but not sell someone for £50m?

Kenny and Comolli made those decisions, both to sell and to buy.

[CraigDS]

Because Suarez is a bigger financial asset For FSG than Kenny was!

Well surely if the commercial dept is feeling the pinch because of Suarez-gate, enough for it to be the reason to sack Kenny 5 months (more?) later, then he isn't such a big financial asset.

No more than selling him, spending the whole of the (probable) £30m fee on a replacement, and having a happy commercial dept again.

Or more likely is Kenny's sacking had little to nothing to do with Suarez.

[underdog]

My biggest issue with fsg is how quick their plans change, in the space of a week we went from 100% having a DOF in place to help the manager to giving it up so we could have BR. Now ok sometimes in life you change your stance if the change brings you more in return, you drop the DOF for a Capello, but for a Rogers? I honestly think the DOF was purely a an excuse to not offer Rafa the job. What do we honestly have right now, a young manager with little in the way of a track record, owners who seem to know lots about maxamising money but nothing about football and (my huge worry) too much power given to Ayres.

[jaffod]

I like the cut of our jib.

[krispy.red]

My biggest issue with fsg is how quick their plans change, in the space of a week we went from 100% having a DOF in place to help the manager to giving it up so we could have BR. Now ok sometimes in life you change your stance if the change brings you more in return, you drop the DOF for a Capello, but for a Rogers? I honestly think the DOF was purely a an excuse to not offer Rafa the job. What do we honestly have right now, a young manager with little in the way of a track record, owners who seem to know lots about maxamising money but nothing about football and (my huge worry) too much power given to Ayres.

I believe Ayre was quoted as saying they would be breaking Comolli's position in to a more of a team, even before they were close to hiring Rodgers. Probably has to do with Segura and those scouts from City coming over once their leave is finished. Hopefully it becomes more apparent in the coming weeks.

[And Could He Play]

I disagree. Moneyball gets slated because it's an American term--from baseball no less. Yes, it doesn't translate easily to football, and yes it doesn't apply as shorthand to LFC. Yes, it can be used very stupidly. But there are still big strategic positives to take from the term, which can be applied to our game and our club. It's not a gospel. But there are parts of that baseball-oriented strategy that can be applied to our game. Especially considering we don't have an oil-rich Sheikh or Russian controlling our club.

It's a baseball word, we play football, in fact its not even a word.

[Mr Dilkington]

Good post mate.

It's good to see we can have a conversation on here, even though a lot of us have completely contrasting views.

I dont agree with a lot of the things you said.

You give FSG far too much credit IMO. They took a massive gamble on Rodgers and we still have no clue why. The point is, these are people who have absolutely no clue about the sport of football. They dont understand it. I cant just get behind a decision and say "he fits the plan" because we 1) have no idea what the plan really is 2) the plan has changed so much in 2 years it's hard to keep up with what they want 3) we have no idea how a bunch of people who know nothing about the sport actually formulated that plan.

The only arguments in favor of Rodgers is that he's young, plays nice football and is cheap. Those are the 3 pros with him. But we have no clue why FSG want a young manager in the first place.

They've entrusted a man with so little experience with one of the most difficult jobs in world football, a job that has almost killed a couple of our previous managers and one that has seriously affected a couple of others. We have no idea why.

See, if FSG were football men, if FSG had a team of football men in place making the football decisions, I could get behind the argument that they know what they're doing. I may not agree with it, but I could understand it. But as it stands, they dont have a team in place. They're taking decisions on firing and hiring, planning and strategising based on... what exactly? We have no clue. And as such, it's amazingly hard to see men like Capello, Aloysius Paulus Maria "Louis" van Gaal and Rafa passed over in favor of someone with such limited experience.

And yes, I think he's a fake and yes I have no evidence for this apart from gut feeling. I cant explain it and I certainly wont be able to convince anyone. But that's my feeling. Every time he speaks and does that thing when he puts his head back, I feel something isnt right. Every time he talks about his "methods", I shake my head. That interrview he did when he said we were a stepping stone, the comments from Swans fans that he loved himself way too much etc... Again, this is nothing tangible and I know some people will think Im a fool but there you go. The person he reminds me the most of is George Gillett unfortunately. I had exactly the same feeling while hearing Gillett talk in his first press conference: what a brilliant bullshitter.

Hopefully Ill be as wrong about Rodgers as I was right about George.

Finally, your point about Pep and Allegri. 2 excellent examples which, IMO, reinforces one of my points.

Phoney or not, Rodgers need help. There is no fucking structure in place at the club to help him. Allegri had Galliani, Pep had Txixi etc... Rodgers has noone bar Ian Ayre.

Kenny Dalglish had Sir Bob to help him, Evans had Ronnie Moran. Both had Peter Robinson. Rodgers has noone bar Ian Ayre and a bunch of owners who know more about the weather in the USA then they do about the sport of football. He has very limited experience but that would be Ok if he had support around him: but he doesnt. There's a vacum at the club which doesnt exist at Milan or Barca. There's the difference. There's the shocking lack of planning by FSG right there and there's the major concern of why the fuck they entrusted such a young man with one of the most pressurised jobs in world football without giving him a support network to see him through.

Cheers for the reply.

I think to say they have no plan is harsh. Clearly, there's a lot of guess work involved if we're trying to work out what that plan actually is... but calculated guess work is good fun. The whole 'football advisor's' thing is worrying, and it kind of ties in with your point regarding Rodgers' lack of support. I too wish we had a clear structure in place, but by all accounts, Rodgers wasn't prepared to work under a DOF. That in turn presents it's own problems, because the fact FSG abandoned their structural idea for the club because of one man disagreeing... well it seems very strange, and dare I say - weak. I've already outlined that I think they want to make the Academy as important as it's ever been. Rodgers does tie in with that view.

I have to go to the cinema now... but hopefully I'll get the chance to reply in more detail later - ta!

[Mutton Geoff]

The main reason Kenny was sacked was surely league position. The handling of the Suarez/Evra thing probably didn't help but no way was it the main factor.

According to Werner Suarez was the sole reason for sacking Kenny, according to Ayre the league was the main reason ,according to Henry perhaps the sky is pink?

[JP!]

I'll worry about it when the window shuts, ta.

[CraigDS]

According to Werner Suarez was the sole reason for sacking Kenny

Genuinely, I haven't seen any quotes suggesting this, you got links to them?

[Mutton Geoff]

Genuinely, I haven't seen any quotes suggesting this, you got links to them?

You do the work I am watching Wiggins hopefully win a gold,

 it was on the net two weeks ago, mind you Werner has probably had a rethink or two since!

[CraigDS]

You do the work I am watching Wiggins hopefully win a gold,

 it was on the net two weeks ago, mind you Werner has probably had a rethink or two since!

Got that on too, looking promising for him!

Well if it was on the net once, no chance it won't be around now no matter if Werner changed his mind or not.

[flashman]

According to Werner Suarez was the sole reason for sacking Kenny

Unless he told you personally I haven't seen this anywhere

[krispy.red]

According to Werner Suarez was the sole reason for sacking Kenny, according to Ayre the league was the main reason ,according to Henry perhaps the sky is pink?

Stop making stuff up. There's plenty of valid discussion to be had then just spouting lies.

[Mumm-Ra]

Just a quick question, don't want to derail the thread (good thread BTW) but I keep seeing comments about how FSG left Kenny hanging out to dry over the Suarez thing. What should they have done? Has Roman, or anyone at Chelsea made any public statements about John Terry? Would you expect the Glazers to say anything if the teams had been reversed? I'm no PR expert but I genuinely don't see what they could have done about Kenny's appearance in the whole saga. Questions were asked in interviews as you'd expect, and Kenny answered them the way he did. He put on a Suarez t-shirt and gave an interview. At the end of the whole saga, Kenny looked bad. LFC looked bad. But what I'm seeing on here is a need to absolve Kenny of any blame, and people 'pitying the poor guy' who was fed to the wolves by FSG. If Kenny had wanted to play a safe PR game he could have just said no comment, worn a suit, played it safe. Instead he stuck his neck out for Luis, which we all loved him for, and ended up paying a heavy price in the media. But that was his decision, surely?

[CraigDS]

You do the work I am watching Wiggins hopefully win a gold,

 it was on the net two weeks ago, mind you Werner has probably had a rethink or two since!

Can only find Fergie saying that. Can't find anything from Werner concerning it in the last month or so.

[tomred]

According to Werner Suarez was the sole reason for sacking Kenny, according to Ayre the league was the main reason ,according to Henry perhaps the sky is pink?

What are your own thoughts Geoff?

[Noelle]

I disagree. Moneyball gets slated because it's an American term--from baseball no less. Yes, it doesn't translate easily to football, and yes it doesn't apply as shorthand to LFC. Yes, it can be used very stupidly. But there are still big strategic positives to take from the term, which can be applied to our game and our club. It's not a gospel. But there are parts of that baseball-oriented strategy that can be applied to our game. Especially considering we don't have an oil-rich Sheikh or Russian controlling our club.

The trouble is people don't understand what moneyball is, or do but choose to ignore it so they can use it derisively. It's a term derived from the title of a book to refer to sabermetrics, which is essentially using statistics to maximize value for money. That's really all it is. Being smart in the market, but doing so via objective numerical analysis rather than whoever your manager of the moment happens to be saying "Aye, I like that Charlie Adam fella".

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

As mentioned ealier to another poster, was actually agreeing with you and responding to the post you quoted. I should have made it clearer.

Anyway, it's now about the decisions they make as you say, it's important Rodgers and his staff scout well, plan properly how their new signings fit into the system, and get as many right as possible. Through no fault of his own Rodgers is now in a position where he can afford very few transfer mistakes if we are to not to fall further away from the top table. 

Edit: Reading back, it does seem I have this bad habit of using 'your' to a general audience when quoting someone.

[tomred]

The trouble is people don't understand what moneyball is, or do but choose to ignore it so they can use it derisively. It's a term derived from the title of a book to refer to sabermetrics, which is essentially using statistics to maximize value for money. That's really all it is. Being smart in the market, but doing so via objective numerical analysis rather than whoever your manager of the moment happens to be saying "Aye, I like that Charlie Adam fella".

Agree.

[Redeo]

Just a quick question, don't want to derail the thread (good thread BTW) but I keep seeing comments about how FSG left Kenny hanging out to dry over the Suarez thing. What should they have done? Has Roman, or anyone at Chelsea made any public statements about John Terry? Would you expect the Glazers to say anything if the teams had been reversed? I'm no PR expert but I genuinely don't see what they could have done about Kenny's appearance in the whole saga. Questions were asked in interviews as you'd expect, and Kenny answered them the way he did. He put on a Suarez t-shirt and gave an interview. At the end of the whole saga, Kenny looked bad. LFC looked bad. But what I'm seeing on here is a need to absolve Kenny of any blame, and people 'pitying the poor guy' who was fed to the wolves by FSG. If Kenny had wanted to play a safe PR game he could have just said no comment, worn a suit, played it safe. Instead he stuck his neck out for Luis, which we all loved him for, and ended up paying a heavy price in the media. But that was his decision, surely?

I'm with you on that one. The question is really what do we really want from FSG in those situations. To meddle or not to meddle? They didn't and if they did, they would have surely undermined Kenny.

[KirkVanHouten]

To be honest when Werner, Ayre or Henry speak I tend to avoid reading it or listening to it because listening to them speak makes my skin crawl a bit. It's nothing personal but they come across as slimy pandering blokes and I hate that fake corporate kind of bullshit. I understand that they're trying to put out positive messages but sometimes it just doesn't sit right.

Maybe it's the fact that I don't really like that football is becoming more and more about knowing your teams accounts and the value of the sponsorship deals and hearing from these blokes reminds me of that.

[Redeo]

The trouble is people don't understand what moneyball is, or do but choose to ignore it so they can use it derisively. It's a term derived from the title of a book to refer to sabermetrics, which is essentially using statistics to maximize value for money. That's really all it is. Being smart in the market, but doing so via objective numerical analysis rather than whoever your manager of the moment happens to be saying "Aye, I like that Charlie Adam fella".

Right. But, using statistics to maximize value for money can in reality mean many things. For me, the current focus on trimming wages, selling heavy earners and buying young players on lesser wages is the first real sense of what moneyball means for our club.

[The Lash]

So the cups were more important than the League?

Winning the league is more important than cup wins, unless we are talking CL. However, the league was never on the agenda for last season, top four possibly, although it was always going to be a huge task. With extra pressure put on the team and kenny by FGS expecting CL football after one season of mediocre spending!!!!Given that we were  not going to win the league last season and wont win it this season, cup wins are the most logical avenue to success for the club and fans. Have a look at a programme, not just from Liverpool, from any team in the country. I only see league titles and cup wins on the honours list, not finishing 4th and qualifiying to quality for the CL.

The idiotic statement by FSG and Ayre that winning cups is unimportant is having an effect already. I have had at least 4 e-mails telling me that the sign up period for ST holders to enter the auto ticket scheme for cup games has been extended, for 1 final week, which went on for at least 3 weeks. Fans clearly value winning cups and having a great time in the process, but if FSG deem them unimportant them why should we shell out hard earned money for unimportant games?

[eviled]

Look, I'm a massive supporter of Rafa and how he handled things. I wasn't having a go at him. It's a mistake if it came across like that. Rafa made some errors, but everyone does. I think it's fair to acknowledge that he made mistakes. But he fought very hard to improve. I respect that, even if he made errors.

I think surfer was agreeing with you and was trying to address Brentie's apparent lumping of Rafa as part of the club's failures in the transfer market.  To be fair, Brentie did qualify that only the last two years of Rafa was a failure.  Still, I think that does not present a balanced picture given the dire situation were club was in at the end.  I think that Rafa's transfers were amazingly.  Sure he could have done better, but then that is approaching the realm of wishing that the prized horse had wings.  That's how I feel.

As for the current set up, I am in the Fats Scouser camp.  I don't trust FSG will take the club in the direction that I hope for.  There have and will always be doubts about the intentions of FSG, but for me the answer became definite with the selection of Rogers, out of a list of Martinez and Rogers, ignoring available proven world class managers, and especially not even bothering to drive down to Wirral to talk to the Spaniard.

For me, that means that FSG is either incompetent, or that the club is just a play thing for Henry so that he can show the world how smart he is by going the unconventional route and winning it all.  In either case, the result is the same, which is poor footballing decision.

As for Rogers, my gut instinct is that I cannot trust him.   Supposedly he is given all this control.  But in trying to match the picture he is trying to paint with the interviews and quotes, and what is actually happening, e.g., Aquilani is a good player vs. Aquilani one foot out of the door, I think he is either FSG's yes man, or he is powerless to stop what FSG wants to do.  In either case, I don't think he quite has the control that some seem to think he has.

For me, this lack of control, coupled with untested ability, means that Rogers is unlikely to be the person to take the club to the place we, as fans, want to be in.  Hence, my lack of trust.

[Mutton Geoff]

What are your own thoughts Geoff?

that the truth and FSG are sometimes strangers,

in the end i hope to be proved  wrong and i hope all the optimists are right, the club comes first always!

[L666KOP]

What was required was an immediate admission and apology, for using a word that was deemed unessessary in our country.
We should have 'internally banned' Luis for a couple of games and fined him a fortnights wages. And that would have been the end of it.
A statement released afterwards to explain what we'd done, why we'd done it, and that Luis was unaware he was causing any problems. Take one on the chin, and a week later everyone has forgot.

But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

FSG should have dealt with the matter, it wasn't up to Kenny.
But it rumbled on and on and on........

[Noelle]

Right. But, using statistics to maximize value for money can in reality mean many things. For me, the current focus on trimming wages, selling heavy earners and buying young players on lesser wages is the first real sense of what moneyball means for our club.

Oh I'm not saying we're necessarily going about it right, or that we even are at all, or if it's even the smartest approach to be taking. It just really gets on my tits when people just emptily throw around the word moneyball like it's the worst thing ever.

[KirkVanHouten]

What was required was an immediate admission and apology, for using a word that was deemed unessessary in our country.
We should have 'internally banned' Luis for a couple of games and fined him a fortnights wages. And that would have been the end of it.
A statement released afterwards to explain what we'd done, why we'd done it, and that Luis was unaware he was causing any problems. Take one on the chin, and a week later everyone has forgot.

But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

FSG should have dealt with the matter, it wasn't up to Kenny.
But it rumbled on and on and on........

The fucked thing is that they left it up to Kenny and Comolli. Football people, not public relations people or lawyers.

[L666KOP]

that the truth and FSG are sometimes strangers,

in the end i hope to be proved  wrong and i hope all the optimists are right, the club comes first always!

Once bitten, twice shy, I'm completely with you Geoff, however, what I will say is that perhaps people like ourselves are 'looking too hard' for faults. It comes with being deceived for so long.
And their reluctance to progress matters that concern the club, and it's supporters, coupled with the bi-annual visits to Liverpool whilst we have a bloke in charge that failed in the same job at Huddersfield doesn't help matters.

[KirkVanHouten]

The idiotic statement by FSG and Ayre that winning cups is unimportant is having an effect already. I have had at least 4 e-mails telling me that the sign up period for ST holders to enter the auto ticket scheme for cup games has been extended, for 1 final week, which went on for at least 3 weeks. Fans clearly value winning cups and having a great time in the process, but if FSG deem them unimportant them why should we shell out hard earned money for unimportant games?

They have basically created a situation where it's like selling tickets to a cover band when you can see the real thing 3 or 4 days later.

[Redeo]

There's so much criticism of almost everything connected with our club around here. From FSG's focus on trimming wages, to managerial records of Kenny, Hodgson and Rafa, and most importantly for me to our club and its 'assets' being treated like a f 'merchandise'. There's so much negative energy that it is hard to regain any sense of positivity and hope short term or long term. I personally struggle most with the question of What Do We Really Want? What kind of owners?
If its not FSG, if its not sugar daddies, if its not Glazers, if its not what Arsenal have, if fan ownership is unrealistic, then what is?

[L666KOP]

The fucked thing is that they left it up to Kenny and Comolli. Football people, not public relations people or lawyers.

Ironically the only people at the club at the time were 'off the field' people, and they gaffed massively.
We have the same people making 'football decisions', when in fact it's not really their remit, and the one thing they could actually deal with they left to football people.

Honestly mate, you couldn't make this shit up.

[tomred]

that the truth and FSG are sometimes strangers,

in the end i hope to be proved  wrong and i hope all the optimists are right, the club comes first always!

'Tis a fine line between cynicism, optimism, realism, pessimism and paranoia.

Realistically, I think we've had worse than this current crew.

[Redeo]

Oh I'm not saying we're necessarily going about it right, or that we even are at all, or if it's even the smartest approach to be taking. It just really gets on my tits when people just emptily throw around the word moneyball like it's the worst thing ever.

I agree. What bothers me is that the whole thing is really wrapped up in a cloak of secrecy and mystique. Moneyball this, moneyball that, yet who knows what FSG's intentions truly are?

[Mumm-Ra]

What was required was an immediate admission and apology, for using a word that was deemed unessessary in our country.
We should have 'internally banned' Luis for a couple of games and fined him a fortnights wages. And that would have been the end of it.
A statement released afterwards to explain what we'd done, why we'd done it, and that Luis was unaware he was causing any problems. Take one on the chin, and a week later everyone has forgot.

But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

FSG should have dealt with the matter, it wasn't up to Kenny.
But it rumbled on and on and on........

OK, I agree with your take on what we should have done. But how would RAWK have taken that -  Kenny believed Suarez was innocent and WANTED to show support, speak up on his behalf. If he'd been told to zip it and take it on the chin, he wouldn't have been happy - that would have got out, and RAWK would have been outraged at FSG's treatment of him and Suarez. In this very thread, right now, we'd be seeing the same people submit post after post referencing that incident with disgust at FSG.

My point is, once people decide they want to find fault, they can. There's no realistic way in the world they could have avoided mass criticism on here, for a situation they did not cause.

There's plenty of legitimate gripes with FSG,  but people should be fair.