Author Topic: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield  (Read 488928 times)

Offline rossipersempre

  • On the lookuyt for a new winger since 2007 BC. Prodigal, Son.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,260
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1120 on: October 15, 2012, 11:24:13 am »
Two years on and we're still not past the stage of feasibility studies and CPO talk. This should have been sorted out long long ago by the club, and I mean predating FSG, H&G even.
My scouse, the often busted but seldom battered Mr Flabby Whore Alien. Who will not send in cottoned wool, bubbled rap, shiny sliver spaced blanket and sum beefy Bovril to keep it warm and safe and snag as bag in a rag? Oh Whore yours is a sweeter leftish peg

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,609
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1121 on: October 15, 2012, 11:26:47 am »
With all due respect, its been 10 years in the planning overall and 2 years for the new team to work on it and this is a complete non-announcement. So 2 years to tell us that we are staying at Anfield? Sure Henry has been saying that this is the most likely scenario for at least a year.

After 2 years of work, I would at least expect a outline plan of the expected timelines of a project like this.

Ayre: With property acquisition, planning, construction etc
its very difficult to put a timescale on things at present

Of course it is, and the reason you have had 2 years to put a timescale on it. Its not that difficult when you have correct expertise on hand and are able to scope a project and give expected timelines over 24 months! Any project manager worth their salt would be able to give an overall project outline after 2 years of reviewing all the stakeholders, but sure enough we continue to look amateurish.

It's been two years in the planning. The previous eight years have fuck all to do with FSG, other than demonstrating that it is easy to go down the wrong route.

And no project manager worth his salt (that I'd want anywhere near one of my projects) would give a guaranteed project programme while there are still negotiations over the site. They could give an outline construction programme but the project risk register will be massive at this stage.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Online JerseyKloppite

  • HE'S THE DADDY!!! Staff Room Gimp. Very excited, but cheapened, mail order scam victim with bling headphones. Lovespuds. Jaqen H'ghar, the Mod without a Face.
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,501
  • Exiled to Formby
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1122 on: October 15, 2012, 11:27:00 am »
There was a press conference this morning with Mayor Joe Anderson, Mark Ktts & Ged Fitzgerald from Council, Kathy Cowell from Your Housing and LFC MD Ian Ayre. Establishing a development board for the area consisting of MayorAnderson, Tom Werner (LFC chairman), Kathy Cowell from Your Housing and residents.

There is now a commitment to redevelop the area and that includes plans to create 15,000 additional seats and improved corporate facilities by upgrading the Anfield Road and Main Stands.

Ayre's piece is obviously an embargoed interview that has now been released to coincide with the press conference. That's the way these things work.

It's a good step forward and shows that there has been a lot of work going on behind the scenes with the council, the club, Your Housing and residents. The club will have been carried out extensive reviews of the various options including new-build and different options for the existing ground, and selected the best and most financially appropriate for the club.

I would expect there will be worked up feasibility schemes but the club won't be publishing anything while there are ongoing discussions with residents. That's basic PR - you don't publish pictures of a new stand on the site of someone's house while you are still negotiating to buy.

Thank you.

Offline LiamG

  • He's loving angels instead. Cos through it all they offer him protection.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,178
  • Y.N.W.A
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1123 on: October 15, 2012, 11:27:24 am »
To be fair to them they can't go off paying architects to draw up plans when they don't even know if they will acquire the land they need to expand!

Would be a waste of more money ey?

Offline JohnHobbes

  • Resident Expert Paronomasian
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,358
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1124 on: October 15, 2012, 11:28:01 am »
The usual thing to do is to provide images, videos and models of what the area will look like when it is regenerated. You show the improvements that your plans will make and get the community on board. You promise a better Anfield, you show how you will do it and then you deliver. Unfortunately the Anfield community is completely accustomed to the Clubs broken promises.

Stop blaming the club for this. LCC is doing the regeneration NOT the club. So LCC will release such "images, videos and models" and will do so when they can. As mentioned several times, you can't do that when there are still people refusing to move out of there.

The club can't do anything until LCC finalises things. What exactly is so hard for you to comprehend?

Offline JohnHobbes

  • Resident Expert Paronomasian
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,358
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1125 on: October 15, 2012, 11:29:53 am »
Still, given the circumstances and the purchaser involved, that's derisory. What are those terraces worth? 50-75k, say? So an extra £5000 quid plus to uproot them from the homes and memories? When the club is paying wasters like Joe Cole 90k a WEEK?

It's not the club buying the homes though it's surely LCC? Presumably they're cash strapped like every other council and can't just afford to give them extra cash as then everyone else will demand that bonus too.

Offline LiamG

  • He's loving angels instead. Cos through it all they offer him protection.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,178
  • Y.N.W.A
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1126 on: October 15, 2012, 11:30:05 am »
Does anyone know normally how long it usually takes for agreements to be made with the people who live in the houses needed etc?

How many houses that the club need actually have someone living there, 2 or 3?

Offline bazz

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 185
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1127 on: October 15, 2012, 11:30:51 am »
Goddamn some of you lot are hard to please.

Happy to see actual decisions being made and announced without stepping on toes or giving too much hope.

What decisions have been made that should have "pleased" some people?

So a decision has been made by the club to redevelopment Anfield
A few years back a decision was made by the club to build a new stadium

What's different? What should I be pleased at?

The club has spent an obscene amount of money looking into this over the past 10 years and we still don't have a definitive (as can be) timeframe on what is due to happen.

Offline JohnHobbes

  • Resident Expert Paronomasian
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,358
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1128 on: October 15, 2012, 11:32:03 am »
Two years on and we're still not past the stage of feasibility studies and CPO talk. This should have been sorted out long long ago by the club, and I mean predating FSG, H&G even.

The club has nothing to do with local area regeneration! It's LCC that does that and if there was no previous desire from them for this for whatever reason then how the heck is that the club's fault?

Offline Earl of Dingleberry

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,769
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1129 on: October 15, 2012, 11:37:00 am »
Does anyone know normally how long it usually takes for agreements to be made with the people who live in the houses needed etc?

How many houses that the club need actually have someone living there, 2 or 3?

What if they are Everton supporters? Nightmare scenario.

Offline Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,934
  • JFT 97
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1130 on: October 15, 2012, 11:42:08 am »
Nothing. For a start, unless I'm mistaken the CPO's are paid for by the council not the club. If the only reason for buying the houses is to redevelop the ground then the CPO route is not an option. It has to be in the public interest and therefore paid out of the public purse.

It would set a very dodgy precedent Al555's hated 'big business' could corrupt the CPO process by just riding rough-shod over it by offering big bags of cash. That would be bribery and corruption wouldn't it? And would shit all over every other CPO deal in the country, allowing home-owners carte-blanche to screw over legitimate development that are in the public interest.

Use your brains lads.

Re: The Emirates http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/may/03/sport.comment1

The opponents - 16 residents groups, trade unions and other organisations in the Islington Stadium Community Alliance - pointed, however, to the only independent assessment of the scheme, by Rupert Grantham, the government's planning inspector.

Following a six-week public inquiry, he reported in 2003 that although the stadium design is "world class", and would have a "positive impact" on the area, the development would deliver "disappointingly low" community benefits. Grantham decided this was not regeneration, but "simply a redevelopment scheme" which favours Arsenal's "private interests".

Specifically, he said the expanded stadium would cause inconvenience to residents, lose vital green space, and the development would be socially divisive, because most of the affordable housing is being concentrated in one area, behind Holloway Road, with the new waste station in the middle of it. Even the flats designated for shared ownership will be affordable only to people earning £30-40,000 a year. The affordable housing planned for a redeveloped Highbury has also been moved and Arsenal's former home will be reserved for prestigious apartments.

Grantham recommended that compulsory purchase orders to buy out businesses in the Ashburton Grove industrial estate should not be granted because there was no "compelling public interest" to justify forcible relocation. The businesses and campaigners are still smarting at the decision by the deputy prime minister John Prescott to ignore his planning inspector and grant the CPOs anyway. The businesses have mostly accepted settlements and are leaving.


The Emirates CPO's were quite clearly not in the public interest and they did have Stadium plans in place when CPO's were issued.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,609
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1131 on: October 15, 2012, 11:42:09 am »
What decisions have been made that should have "pleased" some people?

So a decision has been made by the club to redevelopment Anfield
A few years back a decision was made by the club to build a new stadium

What's different? What should I be pleased at?

The club has spent an obscene amount of money looking into this over the past 10 years and we still don't have a definitive (as can be) timeframe on what is due to happen.

You work in construction I take it, and have a lot of experience of managing large scale projects involving partnerships with local councils, third parties like social housing associations and also requiring extensive consultation with residents and other stakeholders.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline ♠Dirty Harry♠

  • Michael Pain the tittie-fixated inflatable doll salesman
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,031
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1132 on: October 15, 2012, 11:44:25 am »
Generous would be a better approach to take. And then there'd be no need for sensitivity.

Not everyone has a price and no business allows itself to be extorted.

Hicks and Gillett had pictures, 5 years on your know the rest

I obviously didn't lay on the irony thick enough ;)

Offline Kite

  • The answer my friend, is blowing in the....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,659
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1133 on: October 15, 2012, 11:44:47 am »
An announcement confirming everything with a commitment to have the new stadium ready by next week would only appease some folk.  3 years I reckon.  Rest of this year and some of next to finalise things.  Then probably an approach with the expansion coming in phases, I'd be happy if its all complete with 60,000 capacity by the start of the 2015/16 season.

But most of all.  I'm happy were staying at Anfield.  Although I think we have to expect a naming partner to fund the entire project.

Who says fatties can't play football.......

Online west_london_red

  • Knows his stuff - pull the udder one! RAWK's Dairy Queen.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,382
  • watching me? but whose watching you watching me?
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1134 on: October 15, 2012, 11:44:56 am »
Re: The Emirates http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/may/03/sport.comment1

The opponents - 16 residents groups, trade unions and other organisations in the Islington Stadium Community Alliance - pointed, however, to the only independent assessment of the scheme, by Rupert Grantham, the government's planning inspector.

Following a six-week public inquiry, he reported in 2003 that although the stadium design is "world class", and would have a "positive impact" on the area, the development would deliver "disappointingly low" community benefits. Grantham decided this was not regeneration, but "simply a redevelopment scheme" which favours Arsenal's "private interests".

Specifically, he said the expanded stadium would cause inconvenience to residents, lose vital green space, and the development would be socially divisive, because most of the affordable housing is being concentrated in one area, behind Holloway Road, with the new waste station in the middle of it. Even the flats designated for shared ownership will be affordable only to people earning £30-40,000 a year. The affordable housing planned for a redeveloped Highbury has also been moved and Arsenal's former home will be reserved for prestigious apartments.

Grantham recommended that compulsory purchase orders to buy out businesses in the Ashburton Grove industrial estate should not be granted because there was no "compelling public interest" to justify forcible relocation. The businesses and campaigners are still smarting at the decision by the deputy prime minister John Prescott to ignore his planning inspector and grant the CPOs anyway. The businesses have mostly accepted settlements and are leaving.


The Emirates CPO's were quite clearly not in the public interest and they did have Stadium plans in place when CPO's were issued.

Are business CPOs and residential ones the same kettle of fish? The article above seems to suggest the ones relating to the Emirates were to buy business properties, not peoples homes.
Thinking is overrated.
The mind is a tool, it's not meant to be used that much.
Rest, love, observe. Laugh.

Offline free_at_last

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,116
  • we all live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1135 on: October 15, 2012, 11:45:56 am »
It's not the club buying the homes though it's surely LCC? Presumably they're cash strapped like every other council and can't just afford to give them extra cash as then everyone else will demand that bonus too.
I suppose you could look at it like this - would the houses in Lothair Rd be demolished if we moved to Stanley Park. It certainly looks like this has been done to assist Liverpool F.C's
redevelopment(according to the meeting Anderson actually visited Fenway). I'm definitely not complaining about that as we get to stay at a bigger Anfileld but Liverpool F.C has bought other houses in the area and donated them to the council and has bought others and left them vacant(putting downward pressure on prices).
It does give the impression that these tenants will get bullied and screwed out of a comparable house to live. Just the type of thing people have been complaining about for the
last number of years as ordinary people get screwed by big business.

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,609
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1136 on: October 15, 2012, 11:50:03 am »
Re: The Emirates http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/may/03/sport.comment1

The opponents - 16 residents groups, trade unions and other organisations in the Islington Stadium Community Alliance - pointed, however, to the only independent assessment of the scheme, by Rupert Grantham, the government's planning inspector.

Following a six-week public inquiry, he reported in 2003 that although the stadium design is "world class", and would have a "positive impact" on the area, the development would deliver "disappointingly low" community benefits. Grantham decided this was not regeneration, but "simply a redevelopment scheme" which favours Arsenal's "private interests".

Specifically, he said the expanded stadium would cause inconvenience to residents, lose vital green space, and the development would be socially divisive, because most of the affordable housing is being concentrated in one area, behind Holloway Road, with the new waste station in the middle of it. Even the flats designated for shared ownership will be affordable only to people earning £30-40,000 a year. The affordable housing planned for a redeveloped Highbury has also been moved and Arsenal's former home will be reserved for prestigious apartments.

Grantham recommended that compulsory purchase orders to buy out businesses in the Ashburton Grove industrial estate should not be granted because there was no "compelling public interest" to justify forcible relocation. The businesses and campaigners are still smarting at the decision by the deputy prime minister John Prescott to ignore his planning inspector and grant the CPOs anyway. The businesses have mostly accepted settlements and are leaving.

The Emirates CPO's were quite clearly not in the public interest and they did have Stadium plans in place when CPO's were issued.

Completely different Al. The CPOs were for businesses not residential properties. And the point still stands that the CPOs were paid by the council not Arsenal. You say they were clearly not in the public interest but there are other opinions:

Regeneration benefits win CPOs for Arsenal’s stadium project

By Ian Grant

The Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott has given the go ahead for Compulsory Purchase Orders on the Ashburton Grove project saying the regeneration benefits outweigh the objections.

The CPOs were for businesses on Queensland Road.

The CPOs were made by Islington Council on 17 June 2002 to acquire land for the purpose of securing the carrying out of development, redevelopment or improvement for a mixed use scheme including:

*a 60,000 capacity stadium;

*an education learning centre;

*a replacement Arsenal Sports and Community Centre;

*a replacement waste and recycling centre;

*new and refurbished homes;

*new live-work units;

*new general business space;

*new shops;

*financial services and cafes/restaurants;

*new leisure space;

*two new gym/health clubs;

*two new nurseries;

*four new community health facilities

*new publicly accessible open space

It was also made under section 13 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 for the acquisition of new rights to enter airspace over the East Coast Main Line and to enter land for facilitating construction, maintenance and renewal works.

There were 33 statutory objections and 61 non-statutory objections made on varying grounds but the main areas of concern were:

*there was no compelling case in the public interest for the confirmation of the CPO;

*the land to be acquired was neither required, nor suitable, for the purpose;

*there had been a failure to demonstrate deliverability or viability;

*the refusal to disclose financial material was a breach of Human Rights;

*the Council had not adopted the correct approach regarding interference with Human Rights; *the use of a CPO in this case may well be an unlawful state aid;

*the proposals were contrary to the development plan;

*the stadium could be constructed without involving properties in Queensland Road.

Other concerns expressed were:

*the loss of existing businesses/jobs to Islington;

*the problems of relocation;

*the new stadium could be constructed somewhere other than Ashburton Grove;

*what was needed mostly was jobs and educational facilities not leisure provision;

a scheme of this magnitude should offer more to the local community;

*there was no regeneration strategy;

*moving the Waste Transfer Station and Council depot to the centre of a new residential area was far from ideal;

*there was nothing to suggest that the proposed public transport improvements would be either sufficient to deal with the increased number of people or a fair exchange for the inconvenience caused by the stadium;

*loss of amenity from the disruption,

*noise and litter that would result from more frequent visits to the area by the additional visitors to the stadium;

*and the financial viability of the scheme could not be established from the evidence available.

Reasons

In determining the applications for confirmation of the CPO and issuing of the exchange land certificates, the Secretary of State concludes that:

• the main justification for the use of compulsory purchase powers, i.e. to achieve a comprehensive regeneration scheme, has been met

• the land is suitable for the development, redevelopment or improvement proposed and that the benefits and advantages that would flow from the proposed development in terms of regeneration outweigh any conflict with the UDP

• there is a compelling case in the public interest that the CPO should be confirmed

• the exchange land is equally advantageous to the public and no less in area than the land that would be lost

• all of the land which the Council now seek to have included in the CPO is required for the purposes of the proposed development

• the scheme is likely to be deliverable

• the use of a CPO in this case does not constitute an unlawful state aid which should be notified to the European Commission

• the compulsory acquisition of the land is justified in the public interest and is proportionate in relation to the need for the development covered by the CPO and

• the outstanding objections do not outweigh the benefits of the scheme

Section 106

The ODPM letter states that: a section 106 agreement includes relocation of existing businesses; funding to upgrade and increase the capacity of the nearby tube and rail stations at Holloway Road and Drayton Park; controlled parking measures to mitigate impacts of vehicular and pedestrian traffic on the highway; and other traffic management measures and affordable housing provisions to allow occupants to buy all of the equity at any time.

The letter also outlines that the proposals represent an opportunity to regenerate two of the boroughs poorest areas – the Lough Road site has been identified as an Area of Opportunity since at least 1988 and although much of Queensland Road is in use, many of its buildings are outmoded and in poor condition.

The Secretary of State notes that the proposal for a stadium at Ashburton Grove was acknowledged in the Council’s Regeneration Strategy produced in December 2000 and this indicated that a new regeneration framework was being formulated to link King’s Cross with Finsbury Park through the centre of the borough.

He also notes that the Ashburton Grove Waste Transfer Station is outdated and operating close to its practical capacity and it needed to be upgraded in order to meet statutory recycling targets.

Furthermore the Secretary of State notes the Council’s conclusion that the likelihood of essential wider regeneration (especially at Queensland Road) not being delivered by AFC was so low that they were content to conclude the land disposals necessary to enable the construction of the stadium to proceed.

He also notes that the Council originally sought to justify the use of compulsory purchase powers on the basis that this would help to secure AFC’s long term future in the borough and that the scheme proposed would bring regeneration benefits. However, the main justification presented to the inquiry was that the CPO was needed to achieve a comprehensive regeneration scheme.

Regeneration benefits

But the key was regeneration benefits. The letter states - The Secretary of State has had regard to the regenerative benefits referred to by the Council. These include:

* more than 2000 new homes to be built some of which would be affordable;

*4 new community health facilities for rent by the Health Service;

*2 new children’s nurseries to accommodate 110 children,

*a new computer learning centre for use by the local community;

*a new and larger sports facility for use by the public;

*the relocation of the Queensland Multimedia Arts Centre within the borough;

*giving priority to Islington residents for up to 10,000 new season tickets;

*£500,000 for a new community development trust and £40,000 a year for community initiatives up until one year after the stadium opens;

*more than 28,000 sq m of new business and commercial space;

*a net gain of approximately 1,800 new full time jobs, more than half of which are expected to be in the local area;

*a scheme to increase opportunities for local trade with AFC and to train local unemployed people for work during and after the construction period;

*a new Waste Recycling Centre which allows increased recycling by members of the public and accommodates a new depot for Council refuse lorries;

*new public open space and money towards its upkeep;

*up to £500,000 for improvements to 3 Council owned estates in the local area;

*improvements to public transport and traffic management in the local area, estimated to cost more than £8,000,000

*and up to £500,000 to monitor the impact of large crowds attending the stadium and to identify possible mitigation measures.

http://archive.arsenalnewsreview.co.uk/articles/i-2004-05-20-16-59-54.html
   
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Bill Bob Kenny

  • Kemlynite
  • **
  • Posts: 48
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1137 on: October 15, 2012, 11:50:11 am »
Great news, obviously still a lot of work to be done, these things are never easy, but it would appear the club had now decided which direction to go for.

For me this is another example of how the owners have made an intelligent decision that will help us financially and also give (most of) the supporters what they want.
to quote a great man.. "Liverpool was made for me and I was made for Liverpool."

Offline bazz

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 185
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1138 on: October 15, 2012, 11:50:34 am »
It's been two years in the planning. The previous eight years have fuck all to do with FSG, other than demonstrating that it is easy to go down the wrong route.

And no project manager worth his salt (that I'd want anywhere near one of my projects) would give a guaranteed project programme while there are still negotiations over the site. They could give an outline construction programme but the project risk register will be massive at this stage.

To be fair, I never said anything about a guaranteed project programme, I said that after 2 years we should have an overall project outline.

Offline RedHopper

  • Hopping to a mightily lofty position and enjoying the view. If only custom titles could be in proportion to the member's average post length? My, what fun we could have! Imagine the sheer edification to be derived from testing the character limi
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,187
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1139 on: October 15, 2012, 11:51:59 am »
Why do people assume that the club buying and leaving houses empty is depressing prices. Surely the empty houses are outweighed by the certainty that if you put your home on the market, there will be one desperate buyer prepared to pay rather a lot of money regardless of the empty houses.

Offline ♠Dirty Harry♠

  • Michael Pain the tittie-fixated inflatable doll salesman
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,031
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1140 on: October 15, 2012, 11:53:09 am »
I suppose you could look at it like this - would the houses in Lothair Rd be demolished if we moved to Stanley Park. It certainly looks like this has been done to assist Liverpool F.C's
redevelopment(according to the meeting Anderson actually visited Fenway). I'm definitely not complaining about that as we get to stay at a bigger Anfileld but Liverpool F.C has bought other houses in the area and donated them to the council and has bought others and left them vacant(putting downward pressure on prices).
It does give the impression that these tenants will get bullied and screwed out of a comparable house to live. Just the type of thing people have been complaining about for the
last number of years as ordinary people get screwed by big business.

The thing is though, why are some 75% of tenants in the area in favour and the others not, does that figure include people who aren't having to move?

royhendo

  • Guest
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1141 on: October 15, 2012, 11:56:10 am »
I'm massively encouraged by this. Don't underestimate how difficult it must have been to take this route and arrive where we are today.

Every indication was that their predecessors' inability and lack of appetite to reach any kind of accord with the other key stakeholders meant redevelopment was a pipe dream and completely unfeasible in reality. But for whatever reason (and thanks to the key players involved) they've cut through the obstacles and arrived at a stage where we have a firm commitment to just that - regeneration of the area, redevelopment of Anfield, and a genuinely shared vision.

No groundshare, no financial millstone white elephant, no plastic renaming of the whole shooting match, no further complication of the ownership situation and related questions raised re motives... no easy options at the exclusion of the other affected parties.

It's a very real possibility that the Football Quarter initiative will come into play now, isn't it?

Yes, there are questions, but there's no scope to be mealy mouthed about this in my view - it's fantastic news.

Offline liverpooll

  • I am right, you are wrong, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Just does not get it. Also does not get that he does not get it.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,792
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1142 on: October 15, 2012, 11:56:42 am »
I don't even see the need for this topic at our current situation.

We are a mid-table side consistently over the last few years and definitely we don't need nor deserve any expansion.

Bigger issues ahead such as our performances on the pitch which deserves the ONLY focus.

Offline Rox

  • Gets His Off Regularly. Man's best friend's best friend.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,942
  • \0/ \0/ \0/
    • Inspire Your Dog
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1143 on: October 15, 2012, 11:58:01 am »
It's been two years in the planning. The previous eight years have fuck all to do with FSG, other than demonstrating that it is easy to go down the wrong route.

And no project manager worth his salt (that I'd want anywhere near one of my projects) would give a guaranteed project programme while there are still negotiations over the site. They could give an outline construction programme but the project risk register will be massive at this stage.

I think you're wasting your breath on some here, sadly.  :(

The way I see it, the big difference here is that the Council is now on side with the idea of redeveloping Anfield.  For me, it means that FSG in 2 years have achieved something that the previous sets of owners couldn't achieve in the last decade.

Going right back to the origins of the Parry bowl, I remember an anti-Stadium group (can't remember their name) going to meet Parry and then changing their tune over a new Stadium because Parry told them redevelopment was pretty much impossible.

Looks to me like there has been plenty of progress made, and (like Alan says) until the Club know what area of land around Anfield they have to play with, there's no point drawing up plans and making promises that will need to be revised and changed.  If they did that, they'd get a backlash about FSG not knowing what they're doing.. changing their minds...

I think from the moment they bought the club it was obvious redevelopment was their preferred option.  They're just following through what they did at Fenway - and have convinced the biggest stumbling block (the Council) to consider the redevelopment as part of a bigger scheme.

Looks like good work has been done to me.
Having problems with a dog, or just want to understand them better?  Get advice at my site... http://inspireyourdog.com/ and follow us on Twitter @inspireyourdog for tips and hints.

Offline Johnny Foreigner

  • King of the Trabbies. Major Mod Thruster.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,847
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1144 on: October 15, 2012, 12:00:49 pm »
I don't even see the need for this topic at our current situation.

We are a mid-table side consistently over the last few years and definitely we don't need nor deserve any expansion.

Bigger issues ahead such as our performances on the pitch which deserves the ONLY focus.

not sure if you're serious, but :

a) we need more money to compete.. larger stadium/more facilites are a key element..

b) "we don't deserve" any expansion ??  Who deserves anything in 2012; but I believe that fits better in another forum..
It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,912
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1145 on: October 15, 2012, 12:00:51 pm »
I don't even see the need for this topic at our current situation.

We are a mid-table side consistently over the last few years and definitely we don't need nor deserve any expansion.

Bigger issues ahead such as our performances on the pitch which deserves the ONLY focus.

The season ticket waiting list would suggest that we do, in fact, require expansion. It has always long been said that to 'compete financially' we need more bums on seats and more incoming in a match. More season tickets means more guaranteed revenue means more money spent on the squad means more potential for improvement.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline JohnHobbes

  • Resident Expert Paronomasian
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,358
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1146 on: October 15, 2012, 12:01:46 pm »
I don't even see the need for this topic at our current situation.

We are a mid-table side consistently over the last few years and definitely we don't need nor deserve any expansion.

Bigger issues ahead such as our performances on the pitch which deserves the ONLY focus.

I find your comment to be very strange. Are you serious? We need an enhanced stadium so we can compete in the future by having better revenue. How would focusing on the pitch be affected by a rebuild starting in 2014? Is BR overseeing this too in your eyes?

Very very strange...

Offline bazz

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 185
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1147 on: October 15, 2012, 12:01:57 pm »
You work in construction I take it, and have a lot of experience of managing large scale projects involving partnerships with local councils, third parties like social housing associations and also requiring extensive consultation with residents and other stakeholders.
?
And what has my background have to do with the quoted comment I made in response to a comment that some people should be please with this announcement?  What should we be happy about in this announcement?

For the record, no I don't have experience in construction, but I do have experience in managing large scale projects that involved extensive consultation with stakeholders. But with that said, Im not commenting on any specifics to this project, because my arguement is that there isn't any specific's attached to this announcement.

I, like all other supporters just want some progress to be made on the stadium issue, and this announcement doesn't do that in my opinion.

Offline apocalypse

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 990
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1148 on: October 15, 2012, 12:02:13 pm »
I don't even see the need for this topic at our current situation.

We are a mid-table side consistently over the last few years and definitely we don't need nor deserve any expansion.

Bigger issues ahead such as our performances on the pitch which deserves the ONLY focus.
That's a very short sighted view

Offline Eeyore

  • "I have no problem whatsoever stating that FSG have done a good job.".Mo Money, Mo Problems to invent. Number 1 is Carragher. Number 2 is Carragher. Number 3 is Carragher. Number 4 is Carragher. Likes to play God in his spare time.
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,934
  • JFT 97
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1149 on: October 15, 2012, 12:04:03 pm »
Completely different Al. The CPOs were for businesses not residential properties. And the point still stands that the CPOs were paid by the council not Arsenal. You say they were clearly not in the public interest but there are other opinions:

A couple of things the Government's own man said they were not in the public interest only for two Jags to over rule him. The other thing is that the plans and the benefits were clearly in the public domain when the CPO's were decided. Same thing with Edge Lane the plans for the boulevard-style highway, new houses, a  community hub and health centre were known.

Edge Lane is a good example it took 6 years, two public enquires and six high court hearings with the campaigners getting free legal representation before it was settled.


 
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline liverpooll

  • I am right, you are wrong, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Just does not get it. Also does not get that he does not get it.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,792
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1150 on: October 15, 2012, 12:08:06 pm »
I find your comment to be very strange. Are you serious? We need an enhanced stadium so we can compete in the future by having better revenue. How would focusing on the pitch be affected by a rebuild starting in 2014? Is BR overseeing this too in your eyes?

Very very strange...
Nonsense. You do realize that any stadium spending will only mean less revenue for our players. It's about setting the priority right for the club. Not making emotional decisions which you are doing.

Our current stadium is already best for a mid-table club.

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,609
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1151 on: October 15, 2012, 12:08:55 pm »
To be fair, I never said anything about a guaranteed project programme, I said that after 2 years we should have an overall project outline.

And I'm sure they do. What they won't do is publish it and leave themselves hostages to fortune.

I've got a building going up in Central London and looking at the original timeline when we started in may 2007, the building was going to be on the market late 2009. The construction programme is still the same - no one fucked up, just that issues with planning, site assembly, tenant leases, the head lease, rights of light and party wall, the recession in 2008, changes of overall strategy within the client and so on... all impacted on the overall programme.

That's the way things go.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline RedPross

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1152 on: October 15, 2012, 12:08:55 pm »
Ian Ayre reveals absolutely nothing!!

vague noncommittal nonsense, nothing concrete!!
I completely agree with this....... here we are 2 years into FSG's rein and what 10-12 years after we first thought about a move........... and we have nothing but we hope, we're keen, as quickly as possible......

"so it's important we get certainty before we make the next step and a big part of the certainty for what we are trying to achieve is the acquisition of properties and therefore land to build on and then the subsequent planning permission. It would be wrong and foolish and irresponsible for any of us to just assume those things will happen. Hopefully they can happen and that's a big part of why we are working together with Liverpool City Council, with the housing and with the residents."

And after two years not a single drawing or artist impression to hang our dreams on........

Load of b011ocks!!!


Offline planet-terror

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,249
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1153 on: October 15, 2012, 12:09:06 pm »
excellent news,,certainly something positive to build on with all involved seemingly heading in one direction for a change..must have taken something special to get the council onside ,,,can only be good news,
any links to the councils statements?
bollocks

Offline GBF

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,043
  • The only religion with a God that you can touch!
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1154 on: October 15, 2012, 12:11:03 pm »
I find your comment to be very strange. Are you serious? We need an enhanced stadium so we can compete in the future by having better revenue. How would focusing on the pitch be affected by a rebuild starting in 2014? Is BR overseeing this too in your eyes?

Very very strange...

I think he is thinking of Arsenal's transfer (selling only) policies since they moved to Emirates
01111001 01101111 01110101 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101100 01101011 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100101

Offline Paul-LFC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,967
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1155 on: October 15, 2012, 12:12:01 pm »
I don't even see the need for this topic at our current situation.

We are a mid-table side consistently over the last few years and definitely we don't need nor deserve any expansion.

Bigger issues ahead such as our performances on the pitch which deserves the ONLY focus.
Feel free to start your own forum where only that one topic exists, or you could do what everyone else does here and discuss multiple topics in the multiple different threads about them. Don't like this thread? Why are you even in here then, go and read another one.

Offline paulrazor

  • Dreams of a handjob from Timmy Mallett. Chronicler of seasons past. Cares more than Prelude Nr 5, or does he? No chance of getting a banana at his house.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,914
  • Take me 2 the magic of the moment on a glory night
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1156 on: October 15, 2012, 12:12:51 pm »

I obviously didn't lay on the irony thick enough ;)
wasnt a very cromulent statement
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,609
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1157 on: October 15, 2012, 12:13:30 pm »
I don't even see the need for this topic at our current situation.

We are a mid-table side consistently over the last few years and definitely we don't need nor deserve any expansion.

Bigger issues ahead such as our performances on the pitch which deserves the ONLY focus.

Haha - what do you thinks going to happen? The under-21's digging the footings while Brendan oversees the Academy putting up some Herras fencing?
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline laddo

  • Forum Perv
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,663
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1158 on: October 15, 2012, 12:13:30 pm »
I don't even see the need for this topic at our current situation.

We are a mid-table side consistently over the last few years and definitely we don't need nor deserve any expansion.

Bigger issues ahead such as our performances on the pitch which deserves the ONLY focus.

Ever thought that a bigger stadium might lead to more success on the pitch?

Offline JohnHobbes

  • Resident Expert Paronomasian
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,358
Re: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield with added Ayre...
« Reply #1159 on: October 15, 2012, 12:14:43 pm »
Nonsense. You do realize that any stadium spending will only mean less revenue for our players. It's about setting the priority right for the club. Not making emotional decisions which you are doing.

Our current stadium is already best for a mid-table club.

If you think the club is a mid-table team and that's where we need to stay then why other spending on players? An enhanced stadium is vital so the team can compete in the future, that's not an emotional decision but a purely logical one.

Cutting the wage bill allows for re-investment in the playing squad regardless of what is happening with the stadium. To be honest, I'm so puzzled by your attitude that I'm struggling to respond to it.