Author Topic: The Automatic Cup Scheme next season in light of recent comments from Ian Ayre  (Read 7986 times)

Online Fromola

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"Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference – it was never about an individual result. It was always about taking a review of the season in full."

So Kenny would have got sacked even if he won two out of three of the competitions which basically meant he should have put the reserves out in both competitions until we got knocked out from these unwanted distractions.

"It doesnt matter how many cups you win, ultimately you'll fail, because if you dont have that sustainable revenue stream that comes from playing at the highest level, it will be more difficult to compete."

So the next manager could win all three cups next season, but if we don't get top 3 (or 4th and manage to get to a qualifier and win it) then the next manager has failed.

So in light of these revelations from our esteemed MD, and PR genius, why should we tick the boxes for the ACS next season for what are effectively meaningless games to the football club?

Would it be worth proposing a boycott? Just looking to gauge opinions.
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Offline MiserableP15

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It did piss me off given the whole autocup scheme situation this year.

That said, two Wembley trips were fucking awesome (the less said about the third the better), whatever the management say.
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A boycott would just result in lower ticket sales for those games, which would only reinforce the view you seem to be opposing.
In other words, that's possibly the single daftest idea I've ever heard. Well done.  ;)
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Offline Theoldkopite

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Me and Mrs Theoldkopite will both be in this next season. We are fortunate in that we can afford our season tickets and cup tickets. Mind you, Anfield is our only weekly day / night out during the year!

We have been season ticket holders for years. Although FSG own the club it's still our club and we will continue to go and watch our team. (Although we are not happy with the way things are going we think FSG need to be given some slack - and no, we are not FSG apologists - we are LFC fans.) 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 03:32:23 PM by Theoldkopite »

Offline Giovanni

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I'll tick it.

Because it saves me a massive hassle of having to ring up every month to buy them.
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Offline beardsley4ever

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I'll tick it.

Because it saves me a massive hassle of having to ring up every month to buy them.


Likewise.  I'll be doing ACS for the Europa League and at least one of the domestic cups.  Ian Ayre's comments don't change how much I enjoy the matches - he's just speaking the truth about football from a purely commercial perspective (which is kind of his job).

Offline Open the fucking pubs

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Another thread?


I think it's worth having a thread if you're a Season Ticket holder and eligible to enrol in the Auto Ticket Scheme.

If you're not a Season Ticket Holder and you're not eligable to enrol in the Auto Ticket Scheme then I can't see what business it is of yours.
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Offline Open the fucking pubs

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For the record and in answer to the question in this thread... I'm not alone in spending an absolute fortune in the Cups last season and in every season beforehand for more years than I care to remember. I've always felt that the money I've invested following us in the Cups was more than worthwhile. I was supporting my club that had a fine tradition and an obvious determination to do well in the Cups. We've all spent and we've all loved those days in the Sun come the cup finals and all the other games in between. The faffing about with dates means that I usually only get to local away games (Getting to bloody Exeter on a Tuesday is pretty tricky).

And I'm happy to have done it.

But now? Now the club has said stuff the cups? Now they have said that Kenny would have been binned even if he'd won two cups in a season? After that annoucement it seems clear they will be going full tilt for the title and not taking any cup remotely seriously.

I honestly feel like I've been played for a mug by the club. If the owners couldn't care less about the cups then when should I? I'm in deep debt at the moment as a direct result of going to Wembley three times and normally I wouldn't be arsed. But now? It's tarnished the whole thing for me. Sang my head off against Chelsea. Did my best as a fan to influence the game and now we find out that even if we'd won that majestic up there in London - the owners would have sacked the manager?

It's a massive, massive betrayal of the fanbase and I feel personally slighted by the club.

Will I go on the ATS and to aways and to finals now we know the contempt the club holds for these competitions? I dunno. I honestly don't know. I'll have to think long and hard over it. I could do with saving the money to be honest. I'll have to think about it.
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Offline Giovanni

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For the record and in answer to the question in this thread... I'm not alone in spending an absolute fortune in the Cups last season and in every season beforehand for more years than I care to remember. I've always felt that the money I've invested following us in the Cups was more than worthwhile. I was supporting my club that had a fine tradition and an obvious determination to do well in the Cups. We've all spent and we've all loved those days in the Sun come the cup finals and all the other games in between. The faffing about with dates means that I usually only get to local away games (Getting to bloody Exeter on a Tuesday is pretty tricky).

And I'm happy to have done it.

But now? Now the club has said stuff the cups? Now they have said that Kenny would have been binned even if he'd won two cups in a season? After that annoucement it seems clear they will be going full tilt for the title and not taking any cup remotely seriously.

I honestly feel like I've been played for a mug by the club. If the owners couldn't care less about the cups then when should I? I'm in deep debt at the moment as a direct result of going to Wembley three times and normally I wouldn't be arsed. But now? It's tarnished the whole thing for me. Sang my head off against Chelsea. Did my best as a fan to influence the game and now we find out that even if we'd won that majestic up there in London - the owners would have sacked the manager?

It's a massive, massive betrayal of the fanbase and I feel personally slighted by the club.

Will I go on the ATS and to aways and to finals now we know the contempt the club holds for these competitions? I dunno. I honestly don't know. I'll have to think long and hard over it. I could do with saving the money to be honest. I'll have to think about it.
Know what your saying mate, and if I was 20 years older with a family to look after I'd probably be looking to jib it too.

But going the home games has become such a habit that I honestly don't know what would become my tipping point. Bit scary.
cyas

Offline beardsley4ever

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For the record and in answer to the question in this thread... I'm not alone in spending an absolute fortune in the Cups last season and in every season beforehand for more years than I care to remember. I've always felt that the money I've invested following us in the Cups was more than worthwhile. I was supporting my club that had a fine tradition and an obvious determination to do well in the Cups. We've all spent and we've all loved those days in the Sun come the cup finals and all the other games in between. The faffing about with dates means that I usually only get to local away games (Getting to bloody Exeter on a Tuesday is pretty tricky).

And I'm happy to have done it.

But now? Now the club has said stuff the cups? Now they have said that Kenny would have been binned even if he'd won two cups in a season? After that annoucement it seems clear they will be going full tilt for the title and not taking any cup remotely seriously.

I honestly feel like I've been played for a mug by the club. If the owners couldn't care less about the cups then when should I? I'm in deep debt at the moment as a direct result of going to Wembley three times and normally I wouldn't be arsed. But now? It's tarnished the whole thing for me. Sang my head off against Chelsea. Did my best as a fan to influence the game and now we find out that even if we'd won that majestic up there in London - the owners would have sacked the manager?

It's a massive, massive betrayal of the fanbase and I feel personally slighted by the club.

Will I go on the ATS and to aways and to finals now we know the contempt the club holds for these competitions? I dunno. I honestly don't know. I'll have to think long and hard over it. I could do with saving the money to be honest. I'll have to think about it.



But surely you don't go to the cups to help the manager keep his job, do you?  You go to enjoy yourself with your mates, watch us win a cup, support the lads, etc etc.  If they then get sold or sacked, it doesn't change the day out or the experience for me, anyway.

Offline Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word

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It's really simple, the fans are happy with cups and the owners are happy with money.

Offline Open the fucking pubs

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But surely you don't go to the cups to help the manager keep his job, do you?  You go to enjoy yourself with your mates, watch us win a cup, support the lads, etc etc.  If they then get sold or sacked, it doesn't change the day out or the experience for me, anyway.

No. I go to cup games trusting my club to treat them with the regard I do when I part with cold hard cash.

If I thought that the club thought the cups were a waste of time then they obviously wouldn't want to bother winning any.

But they are happy to charge you full price to attend games that they couldn't give a shit about.
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Offline oojason

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Well, if we do get another final then maybe Ian Ayre will be chucking his allocation of tickets back into the fans pot - maybe even the sponsors allocation too?

Though as the club have devalued the importance of competing for and winning the FA and Carling Cups - I'd expect a serious reduction in ticket prices from last year.
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Offline Open the fucking pubs

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Well, if we do get another final then maybe Ian Ayre will be chucking his allocation of tickets back into the fans pot - maybe even the sponsors allocation too?

Though as the club have devalued the importance of competing for and winning the FA and Carling Cups - I'd expect a serious reduction in ticket prices from last year.

Yep. That's about the only way it would be worthwhile going to the games.
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Offline Big Red Richie

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It will be interesting to see what kind of priority (seasies, members, FC or other) is given to ticking the box for the ACS, this season.

After the Man City semi last season, will it be worth ticking the box, or not?


As someone who hasn't missed a cup game at Anfield in over a decade, I still don't tick the box, and get tickets on a game by game basis, so I can sit together with the family and friends who are scatterd throughout three different stands for league games.

I'll have to wait and see this season's criteria, as if you have to be in it for any kind of loyalty, then I havent got much choice if the club is going to hamstring me, by not joining it.
If so, then it will just further lesser my enjoyment of going the match, if the club are going to effectively, strong-arm me into joining it.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 04:49:43 PM by Big Red Richie »

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It's really simple, the fans are happy with cups and the owners are happy with money.

Isn't he saying though, that without the revenue a CL campaign brings, we'd be punching about our weight to win the other cups?

Statto question, in the past ten years , how many times have the FA cup and the Carling cup been won by a team that wasn't in the CL at the start of the season?  I don't know the answer, and clearly us this season and Birmingham jump out. 
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Offline 81a

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But surely you don't go to the cups to help the manager keep his job, do you?  You go to enjoy yourself with your mates, watch us win a cup, support the lads, etc etc.  If they then get sold or sacked, it doesn't change the day out or the experience for me, anyway.

Always nice to win the FA Cup but watching the lap of honour listening to "Your getting sacked in the morning" , and knowing it's true, might just take the gloss off it a little.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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A boycott would just result in lower ticket sales for those games, which would only reinforce the view you seem to be opposing.
In other words, that's possibly the single daftest idea I've ever heard. Well done.  ;)

It's a fair question actually.  A boycott is a bit daft as this is clearly a personal thing but I would agree that the saying that the cups do not matter is hardly the best marketing to drive sales of the ACS.

No sign of the renewal forms yet, I presume they will be arriving soon after our new manager is paraded around Anfield
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Offline shelovesyou

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"Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference – it was never about an individual result. It was always about taking a review of the season in full."

We might not agree with this statement but its merely saying that it was about the season as a whole, not just the Cup finals.
People are always saying how Birmingham won the League Cup but it didnt mean they were a decent side and they were awful in the league, as were we. Their season was defined by relegation, their league form.
He's not however saying that Cups arent important.

Quote

"It doesnt matter how many cups you win, ultimately you'll fail, because if you dont have that sustainable revenue stream that comes from playing at the highest level, it will be more difficult to compete."



Its kind of true, as much as we dont want to hear this. If we dont compete at the highest level we wont make decent money, thats the way football has changed, and im afraid we HAVE to adapt to it or we die. Its really very simple. Nobody wants to hear it but thats the way it is.

Im playing devils advocate here by the way.
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Offline Benbo

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It's brutal but you've got to admire the man's honesty. Unfortunately the cups are a luxury we can't afford right now. I respect IA for not treating us like idiots and telling us the unvarnished truth. Basically, if we want to continue being a big club we need champions league revenue.
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Offline rkgriffin

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"Winning the FA Cup wouldn’t have made any difference – it was never about an individual result. It was always about taking a review of the season in full."

This quote can be spun multiple ways.  And it seems everyone here is spinning it to meet their argument they are trying to make.  I take it as meaning that even if Kenny won the FA Cup he would have still been sacked given everything else that went on.  I am sure that if we finished 5th one point off of 4th and had won the FA Kenny would still be here. 

Right now FSG can do nothing right because what ever they do a large group of supporters will spin it in a negative way.  They speak up and we bitch and tell them to shut up.  They shut up and we say they have no plan and need to speak up.

I just wish we could fast forward to the start of the season and skip over everyone looking at every single quote\decision and coming up with 50 different meanings.

Offline horne

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not a season ticket holder but normally got to the cup games....the way i feel at the moment and its been creeping on me for a while,im enjoying it less and less....atmospheres have got worse over the years and the prices are just riduculous so seriously going to have to say no next year .
probably change my mind closer to the kick off if something exciting happens between now and then ....and by that i mean a manager who gets us,plus some tasty additions...if not...i can see myself backing away a lot nxt season...prem games only
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For the record and in answer to the question in this thread... I'm not alone in spending an absolute fortune in the Cups last season and in every season beforehand for more years than I care to remember. I've always felt that the money I've invested following us in the Cups was more than worthwhile. I was supporting my club that had a fine tradition and an obvious determination to do well in the Cups. We've all spent and we've all loved those days in the Sun come the cup finals and all the other games in between. The faffing about with dates means that I usually only get to local away games (Getting to bloody Exeter on a Tuesday is pretty tricky).

And I'm happy to have done it.

But now? Now the club has said stuff the cups? Now they have said that Kenny would have been binned even if he'd won two cups in a season? After that annoucement it seems clear they will be going full tilt for the title and not taking any cup remotely seriously.

I honestly feel like I've been played for a mug by the club. If the owners couldn't care less about the cups then when should I? I'm in deep debt at the moment as a direct result of going to Wembley three times and normally I wouldn't be arsed. But now? It's tarnished the whole thing for me. Sang my head off against Chelsea. Did my best as a fan to influence the game and now we find out that even if we'd won that majestic up there in London - the owners would have sacked the manager?

It's a massive, massive betrayal of the fanbase and I feel personally slighted by the club.

Will I go on the ATS and to aways and to finals now we know the contempt the club holds for these competitions? I dunno. I honestly don't know. I'll have to think long and hard over it. I could do with saving the money to be honest. I'll have to think about it.

But why do you feel betrayed?

The point is that the club HAS taken the cups seriously this year so you got your money's worth. If they are indicating that from next season the cups are a lower priority you're right you may have second thouhts about going but as you haven't been yet and the club haven't taken your money there's no need for you to feel 'betrayed'.

If anyone should feel betrayed its the ST holders who had to endure match after match of utter crap and disinterest from the players who gave up on the league and couldn't be arsed putting in a performance in the league.

But in terms of strategy either we target evrything (which is the same thing as saying we target nothing), the cups (in which case the ST holders are 'betrayed') or teh league (in which case cup going fans are 'betrayed).

So which is it to be?

Personally, the league for me is more important than the cup competitions because doing well in the league means a better chance of doing wel lin the cups in subsequent years too as we can then afford better players - it's not teh same the other way round.
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Offline INABITSKI

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Never did the ACS this season just gone but still got the tickets for every game and on recent comments even more happy that I got the chance to go Wembley 3 times, as now getting back may be a while off again.

I will be ticking the box this time around though. Mostly as I cannot be arsed with the hassle of sorting tickets when I should be working. Plus I have a decent seat I really don't want to give up. I will probably swerve a couple of league games instead and let a mate have a ticket when we have some Sunday games on the back of possible European Thursday fixtures.

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I think the answer then is for fans to make a personal choice, rather than some form of organised boycott.

But Ayre's comments to stick in the throat. How could you sack a manager if he'd won the FA Cup and the Carling Cup in his first full season after we'd just finished 6th and 7th the previous seasons and been through all kinds as a club in that time?

Tick the boxes for the ACS and Ayre can cahrge whatever he wants if enough people tick them.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Licky

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Last season was the first year I didn't tick the acs box on my seaso.  I decide to take my chances as I used to like sitting in different parts of the ground with some of the lads.  But to be honest it was a pain trying to get tickets and I spent most of the  night moaning about why we haven't have a spade in the ground cos it'd been about 6000 days. :)

So I was going to tick it this year, but that's a very good point In the OP, any manager coming in will be aware of ayre's comments and how Kenny was treated with regard to cups over league position, and I can't see him risking anything for any of the cup competitions, so potentially we are destined to watching the kids in the cups, which is never a bad thing, but money for me is a lot tighter than it was a few years ago, so currently I'm probably going to give the cups a miss this season
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I think it's worth having a thread if you're a Season Ticket holder and eligible to enrol in the Auto Ticket Scheme.

If you're not a Season Ticket Holder and you're not eligable to enrol in the Auto Ticket Scheme then I can't see what business it is of yours.

I am a ST holder. My opinion was just its been debated about a million times but anyway...both my ST will be getting signed up to ATS for all 3 comps.

I have been watching these games for years where when we've been in the lower rounds we've often put out a mix of youth and the odd senior player, and I liked watching those games. If that's what we do again then I will enjoy it just as much. I see no reason to not go and support the team and players on the pitch - not their fault what their bosses have said.

Offline thekremlin

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It was blatantly obvious that Kenny saw winning a cup or two as a great building block for the team to get a winning mindset. Unfortunately for Kenny, we won the Carling Cup then fell apart. As for Ian Ayres comments, in my opinion they're being twisted out of context. He was being honest, let's not slaughter him for it.

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No. I go to cup games trusting my club to treat them with the regard I do when I part with cold hard cash.

If I thought that the club thought the cups were a waste of time then they obviously wouldn't want to bother winning any.

But they are happy to charge you full price to attend games that they couldn't give a shit about.

Did you used to go a few years back when we often put pretty young sides out?

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Tick the boxes for the ACS and Ayre can cahrge whatever he wants if enough people tick them.

Fairly certain they name the prices before the season don't they, so you know you'll be paying £35 for a ticket and not £1,000,000 - for example.

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Fairly certain they name the prices before the season don't they, so you know you'll be paying £35 for a ticket and not £1,000,000 - for example.

Cup prices vary and will depend on competition, kick off time, opposition etc

Offline oojason

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Last season was the first year I didn't tick the acs box on my seaso.  I decide to take my chances as I used to like sitting in different parts of the ground with some of the lads.  But to be honest it was a pain trying to get tickets and I spent most of the  night moaning about why we haven't have a spade in the ground cos it'd been about 6000 days. :)

So I was going to tick it this year, but that's a very good point In the OP, any manager coming in will be aware of ayre's comments and how Kenny was treated with regard to cups over league position, and I can't see him risking anything for any of the cup competitions, so potentially we are destined to watching the kids in the cups, which is never a bad thing, but money for me is a lot tighter than it was a few years ago, so currently I'm probably going to give the cups a miss this season

No doubt about it mate - after Ayre's statements any new manager would be keeping his best 18 players fresh and fit for the league campaign each Saturday/Sunday to try and finish in the CL places to save his job - whilst the Europa, FA Cup and League games will make do with reserves and kids. As said elsewhere, the club will no doubt be slashing the prices on last season's ticket prices for the Cups this year...
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Cup prices vary and will depend on competition, kick off time, opposition etc

They are in a set bracket though I believe and this is set out before having to tick the box. Its not like you tick, and then stung for ticket prices 3x what they were the year before.

Offline Kite

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Anything coming out of the club now is just jumped on and exaggerated to suit the negative position you're all in.  I'm as upset at Kenny going as anyone else, but Ayre's comments simply implied that Kenny was sacked because of league form.  Doesn't mean anything else to any new manager and us boycotting the cups games is as ridiculous as assuming he new manager will completely disregard them and make them meaningless.  Get a grip.
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Online Craig 🤔

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No doubt about it mate - after Ayre's statements any new manager would be keeping his best 18 players fresh and fit for the league campaign each Saturday/Sunday to try and finish in the CL places to save his job - whilst the Europa, FA Cup and League games will make do with reserves and kids. As said elsewhere, the club will no doubt be slashing the prices on last season's ticket prices for the Cups this year...

They didn't slash them in previous years when we have played weakened sides in these competitions.

Offline ALANM

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I haven't missed a home cup game in any competition, domestic or European, since 1998. I don't intend to start now. Count me in.

I go to support the team. Ian Ayre can piss off!!

Offline oojason

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They didn't slash them in previous years when we have played weakened sides in these competitions.

Yes mate, but the club didn't infer that winning the Cups were not good enough to keep the manager in a job in those previous years - so it's not unreasonable to think that the new boss won't be risking his best 18 players for the Cups - as he'll be concentrating on the league and keeping them fresh and fit after Euro 2012 and Olympics etc to get in the CL places. I'd expect some sort of PR campaign and reduced tickets on last years' prices to go and see the reserves and kids play in the Cups. Money is tight for a lot of people at the moment - and even last season in the 'bigger' cup games tickets went to general sale (apologies if mistaken), and that was with us putting more or less full strength sides out on the pitch and going for it.
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Offline smicer07

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Didn't do it last year due to finances. Won't do it this year because we'll be playing the stiffs and am waiting to hear who the new manager is before I commit to the season ticket.

Offline FernandoTourettes

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I seriously doubt Kenny would have been sacked had he won the cup. I mean, imagine it....a few weeks after and then boom, sacked?

Without it, his sacking was a shock but people could at least understand it. With the F.A cup, I'm fairly sure there would have been hell to pay. Think Ayre was just saying to make sure it didn't sound like Kenny was being sacked over one game. Could be wrong and they are all mentalists.