Author Topic: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...  (Read 95262 times)

Offline XabiArt

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #440 on: May 21, 2012, 08:38:14 PM »
Who remembers who scored the goal to get us in the top 4.

So in 2003/04 would you rather we won the Carling cup that year then? Instead of competing and winning the Champions league?


I'm raging at peoples idiocy.

Offline And Could He Play

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #441 on: May 21, 2012, 08:38:39 PM »
Who remembers who scored the goal to get us in the top 4.

So in 2003/04 would you rather we won the Carling cup that year then? Instead of competing and winning the Champions league?


I'm raging at peoples idiocy.

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Offline redmark

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #442 on: May 21, 2012, 08:38:56 PM »
How would people react to the idea of the winner of the FA cup getting a Champions League place? (And the 3rd qualifying round CL place goes to 3rd)

And how would people react to the idea of the winner of the Europa League getting a Champions League place? (Like a promotion, not at the expense of their own countries places but as an official UEFA place)

Absolutely yes to the FA cup, a little less yes to the EL. Would certainly reinvigorate the FA Cup, though I think it has more or less retained it's 'charm' anyway.
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Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #443 on: May 21, 2012, 08:39:26 PM »
Err... it was third place. Fourth place happened the following year because Liverpool won the UEFA CUp and bumped up the Premier League's coefficient.

See winning Cups is a good thing...

So we are to blame for all this 4th place nonsense, damn you Houllier and your silly worth nothing treble  :no

Maybe we should move the club to Cyprus or something where only the champions qualify for the CL and then it'll back like the old days .... and we'd all have lovely tans.  ;D
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #444 on: May 21, 2012, 08:39:38 PM »
One of the best nights of my life that, what a team we had back then.

Was my 27th Birthday that day too, what a week that was, but hey, what did it win us? :p

Offline XabiArt

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #445 on: May 21, 2012, 08:40:24 PM »
See winning Cups is a good thing...


OF COURSE IT IS!

But you cant win cups without good players.

You fail to get in the champions league good players leave,

worse players arrive,

you drop down the table,
 
you dont win a fucking thing.

You might make Wembley once a decade.

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #446 on: May 21, 2012, 08:41:54 PM »
Who remembers who scored the goal to get us in the top 4.

So in 2003/04 would you rather we won the Carling cup that year then? Instead of competing and winning the Champions league?


I'm raging at peoples idiocy.

Do you mean 2004/05 when we won the CL?

If so maybe we should have ignored the Champions League and concentrated on the top 4 for a season to remember  ;)

If not  :-[
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Offline And Could He Play

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #447 on: May 21, 2012, 08:42:37 PM »

OF COURSE IT IS!

But you cant win cups without good players.

You fail to get in the champions league good players leave,

worse players arrive,

you drop down the table,
 
you dont win a fucking thing.

You might make Wembley once a decade.

but since 2006 how many seasons have we been in the Cl, and wasnt until this season we actually got to wembley.
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Offline Mumm-Ra

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #448 on: May 21, 2012, 08:43:13 PM »
Do you mean 2004/05 when we won the CL?

If so maybe we should have ignored the Champions League and concentrated on the top 4 for a season to remember  ;)

If not  :-[

In 2003/04 we qualified for the 04/05 CL, which we won.

Offline XabiArt

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #449 on: May 21, 2012, 08:43:39 PM »
Do you mean 2004/05 when we won the CL?

If so maybe we should have ignored the Champions League and concentrated on the top 4 for a season to remember  ;)

If not  :-[


No no no, my point was that that was the year we qualified to enter it for the next year when we won. I asked that instead of qualifying that season, we finished lower but won the league cup.

Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #450 on: May 21, 2012, 08:44:23 PM »
One of the best nights of my life that, what a team we had back then.

Who could forget Dossena coming on in the last few minutes and scoring (with his first touch?) with a beautiful chip?

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #451 on: May 21, 2012, 08:44:36 PM »
In 2003/04 we qualified for the 04/05 CL, which we won.

I thought he might of meant that hence the  :-[

I blame his grammar.
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Offline XabiArt

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #452 on: May 21, 2012, 08:45:31 PM »
but since 2006 how many seasons have we been in the Cl, and wasnt until this season we actually got to wembley.

Yeah because we actually invested a lot of money in players last summer to get us there. We cant expect the owners to keep doing that, its impossible. A one off summer. If we were in the champions league still, we would still have Torres, we would have far better players, money we could invest and hell, we might still have Rafa.

Offline scoresagain

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #453 on: May 21, 2012, 08:45:48 PM »
Who could forget Dossena coming on in the last few minutes and scoring (with his first touch?) with a beautiful chip?
Nah that was Man United. Dossena finished off a counter attack I think, low cross to the back post which he finished off. What a night.

Offline XabiArt

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #454 on: May 21, 2012, 08:45:56 PM »
I thought he might of meant that hence the  :-[

I blame his grammar.

Shurrup ;D

Offline drpepe

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #455 on: May 21, 2012, 08:46:30 PM »
I think in the year we won the treble we beat Charlton away on the last day of the season about 4-0 to clinch fourth spot, and I think Robbie Fowler scored the winner, might even have got a hat-trick ... can't remember any of the goals but do remember it topping of a great trophy filled season.

I also think we celebrated that year for the treble not qualifying for the champions league  ;) .

didn't he score an overhead kick ?

that was an  amazingly stressful buildup to the match, but what a way to sign off and qualify  :D

Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #456 on: May 21, 2012, 08:47:06 PM »
Was my 27th Birthday that day too, what a week that was, but hey, what did it win us? :p

The game? A place in the next round? ;)

It didn't win us anything tangible in the end but it did give us a great memory I'd not have missed for anything.

Offline west_london_red

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #457 on: May 21, 2012, 08:47:07 PM »
How interesting it would have been if Hodgson won a cup, that would have made this a very interesting thread!

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #458 on: May 21, 2012, 08:48:18 PM »
Who could forget Dossena coming on in the last few minutes and scoring (with his first touch?) with a beautiful chip?

That was against Utd. It was a left footed pass into the back of the net, on the counter against Madrid.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #459 on: May 21, 2012, 08:49:16 PM »
Who remembers who scored the goal to get us in the top 4.

So in 2003/04 would you rather we won the Carling cup that year then? Instead of competing and winning the Champions league?


I'm raging at peoples idiocy.

We won the European Cup by playing weakened teams in the league and missing out on fourth place. Idiocy!
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Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #460 on: May 21, 2012, 08:50:43 PM »
Nah that was Man United. Dossena finished off a counter attack I think, low cross to the back post which he finished off. What a night.

Too many good memories from that period, they're all starting to blur! Just checked and he still scored the fourth goal in the last few mins of the Real Madrid game so I wasn't completely wrong. Phew, not senile yet! :)

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #461 on: May 21, 2012, 08:50:56 PM »
didn't he score an overhead kick ?

that was an  amazingly stressful buildup to the match, but what a way to sign off and qualify  :D

Was that in that game? I remember that goal it was typical cheeky fowler. And an overall great team display. I'm glad that team didn't stop playing after the Worthington Cup final.
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Offline Dr. Tongue

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #462 on: May 21, 2012, 08:51:09 PM »
Neither.  1st place in the league.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #463 on: May 21, 2012, 08:52:41 PM »
How interesting it would have been if Hodgson won a cup, that would have made this a very interesting thread!

Why? Hodgson was the wrong man for the job for many reasons. He had no feeling for the club and it's fans and played godawful football.
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Offline Mumm-Ra

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #464 on: May 21, 2012, 08:52:45 PM »
The game? A place in the next round? ;)

It didn't win us anything tangible in the end but it did give us a great memory I'd not have missed for anything.

Actually it gave you a great memory that you combined with another great memory, by the looks of it!  :P

Offline XabiArt

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #465 on: May 21, 2012, 08:52:52 PM »
We won the European Cup by playing weakened teams in the league and missing out on fourth place. Idiocy!

Yeah, it was a terrible league season. But it was Rafa's first and he had a poor squad. Next year he got 30 more points. Winning the champions league saved our bacon big style, because if we didnt win and didnt qualify for next year, Gerrard would have gone through with his move to Chelsea. Lots of things would have been different.

Whether its right or wrong, and you dont have to agree with the principals of it, but top players want to play in the Champions league as its the best competition. Do we not want the best players?

Offline Al 666

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #466 on: May 21, 2012, 08:53:40 PM »
How interesting it would have been if Hodgson won a cup, that would have made this a very interesting thread!

Can't blame him for not winning the Carling Cup Northampton at home is a formidable draw.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline And Could He Play

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #467 on: May 21, 2012, 08:54:14 PM »
Yeah, it was a terrible league season. But it was Rafa's first.


Keyword first.

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Offline XabiArt

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #468 on: May 21, 2012, 08:55:44 PM »

Keyword first.

Kennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnny

This has absolutely nothing to do with Kenny. Im trying to get into peoples heads that qualifying for the champions league as soon as possible is more important than winning both cups next year.

Offline Cre_mCr_cker

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #469 on: May 21, 2012, 08:59:02 PM »
I thought he might of meant that hence the  :-[

I blame his grammar.

Oh God the irony.
This is a Liverpool forum. We are not talking about Demba Ba's cock.

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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #470 on: May 21, 2012, 09:00:37 PM »
Seasons gone by we wouldn't of even been having this discussion. The league cup was seen by many as a mere distraction, a competition to blood the youngsters in. Funny how things change so quickly......

Yes your right sometimes they change not for the better and only finishing first got you in the European Cup see we can all spin stuff to suit!
You may also care to check the fact that we enjoyed League wins and League Cup wins in tandem no need for one or the other then!

never thought as a mere distraction till recently !
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Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #471 on: May 21, 2012, 09:00:39 PM »
How interesting it would have been if Hodgson won a cup, that would have made this a very interesting thread!

lol - scary thought, but he wouldn't have...

I'm delighted with the cup this season, but let's be honest, if we win that trophy another 5 times in a row but fail to get close to re-entering the CL the period will have been deemed a failure.  And it would have been in the 80s as well.  Regardless of how much we love trophies, the league cup was the lesser of them all back in our glory days as well.

Similarly if we get back into the top 4 and don't press on from that to challenge for the league, it is a failure.

People seem to think that the idea is to get back in the top 4 and that's it... forever.  It isn't.  The idea is get back into the top 4 and then build towards the title.  Stepping stones and all that.  It's what rafa did and people loved him for it.

Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #472 on: May 21, 2012, 09:03:16 PM »
Actually it gave you a great memory that you combined with another great memory, by the looks of it!  :P

Heh heh. Very true. I think Dossena scoring two goals, both being the fourth goal in a 4-0, was so unlikely my brain just decided to merge the two.

Offline XabiArt

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #473 on: May 21, 2012, 09:03:46 PM »
So I'm right in assuming people want just 1 day out at Wembley even if it sacrifices the next 5/10 years of the club competing at the top?

Offline And Could He Play

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #474 on: May 21, 2012, 09:04:35 PM »
So I'm right in assuming people want just 1 day out at Wembley even if it sacrifices the next 5/10 years of the club competing at the top?

i'm assuming your rather finish 4th for the next 5/10 years than win anything?
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #475 on: May 21, 2012, 09:06:03 PM »

OF COURSE IT IS!

But you cant win cups without good players.

You fail to get in the champions league good players leave,

worse players arrive,

you drop down the table,
 
you dont win a fucking thing.

You might make Wembley (once a decade.) three times in a few months!

but, but , but, but  i thought we didnt get fourth so we must have had a shit team, how did we get to Wembley so often then 3 times as I recall.

edited for the spreadsheet warriors ;)
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Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #476 on: May 21, 2012, 09:06:36 PM »
Why? Hodgson was the wrong man for the job for many reasons. He had no feeling for the club and it's fans and played godawful football.

And he had the team play every away game like it was an inevitable loss and a point a fantastic result regardless of the quality of the opposition.

Offline b_joseph

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #477 on: May 21, 2012, 09:06:52 PM »
So I'm right in assuming people want just 1 day out at Wembley even if it sacrifices the next 5/10 years of the club competing at the top?
It depends on what happens afterwards. Just getting 4th and then doing nothing to build on top of it would ultimately lead to you falling out of the top 4 with nothing to show for it.

So for one season, standing alone, winning a trophy is better than just getting the 4th spot. Now if it was a choice between a team that is realistically contending for the title and the Carling Cup...I think we'd all take a Title contention.


The way some folks talk, its like being 4th is the end goal. When, if anything, being 4th when you have experienced what we have over the past 7-8 seasons, is still a disappointment.

Offline XabiArt

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #478 on: May 21, 2012, 09:08:10 PM »
i'm assuming your rather finish 4th for the next 5/10 years than win anything?

That's not a given though and a strange assumption. Surely by finishing fourth you get better players and compete for trophies. You are allowed to finish 4th and still compete in the cups you know?


Arsenal havnt won anything since 2004. Maybe 2005? Would you want the next 5 years to be like Arsenal's past 5, or Aston Villas?

Offline JohnHobbes

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #479 on: May 21, 2012, 09:09:45 PM »
but, but , but, but  i thought we didnt get fourth so we must have had a shit team, how did we get to Wembley so often then 3 times as I recall.

edited for the spreadsheet warriors ;)

As Alan_X stated above, the cups can be won by teams who aren't able to compete week in and week out in a long slog like the league where points dropped accumulate quickly. That's the beauty of the cups, play tactically/well enough for 90mins and any gulf in class can be negated. However, challenging for the league needs squad depth and that takes money which these days mean regular CL participation.