Author Topic: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...  (Read 75592 times)

Offline Shannon

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #120 on: May 20, 2012, 03:44:25 PM »
But we won't, our club is in pieces at the moment, everyone seems to be in complete disarray and no organisation. Next season I can't see us doing anything but fall further back.

Newcastle were in the Championship two years ago, minimal investment and two years later they were in with a legitimate shout of Champions League Football. Have some perspective.
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Offline Anthony

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #121 on: May 20, 2012, 03:44:54 PM »
OK let's move it on a bit. So...

...if we have to finish fourth every year how are we going to achieve that? There's only one guarantee as far as I can see and that's shed loads of money. We are either on a level with Chelsea, United (until recently) or City in terms of transfers and wages, or we need to find the ultimate genius of a manager who can guarantee top four with limited resources.


See my answer above - it was within our grasp this season as late as March but either our heads went down after losing to Arsenal or we thought the Cups were good enough and we took our eyes off the League. We are to be judged as much on the last three months of the season once we had the Carling Cup in the bag (P16 W6 D1 L9) as we are for the season as a whole.

To be honest, the obsession with 4th place derives from the fact that winning the FA Cup (or Europa League) carries nominal prestige but not the reward (financial or otherwise) it really deserves of a Champions League Place. It's the reason why so many people were not bothered about being in the Europa League this season (not that it helped us much!) and it's something that should be changed.
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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #122 on: May 20, 2012, 03:45:12 PM »
The owners look a silly now.

Carling Cup for me. 4th would of meant nothing.

Offline Something Awful

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #123 on: May 20, 2012, 03:46:43 PM »
The owners look a silly now.

Carling Cup for me. 4th would of meant nothing.

No. It would have meant progress. We could have finished sixth, but if we were only five or six points off third, Kenny would still have his job.

I don't agree with his sacking, but let's not muddy the waters with deliberately obtuse nonsense.
'Despite their  cup pedigree - since they've returned to the top flight in 1962 - Everton have, after today's results, once again gone further in the FA Cup than their much vaunted neighbours. For the record it's Everton 23 Liverpool 22  and 7 ties in 52 seasons'

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #124 on: May 20, 2012, 03:48:44 PM »
To have a chance of winning the league we must have rich owners with deep pockets or continued parcipitation in the CL to generate a transfer budget.

It all depends on your aspirations,the league comes first for me every time so..as we dont have a Roman running the club,CL qualification is essential for the club progressing.

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #125 on: May 20, 2012, 03:50:41 PM »
Cups is always the priority. The biggest one is the league. But if we end up 5th next season and win a cup, I'll be delighted.
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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #126 on: May 20, 2012, 03:51:00 PM »
If the choice is between A) Winning the Carling Cup, or B) Entry to the Champions league to compete for the European Cup then its B for me every day of the week and twice on Sunday
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Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #127 on: May 20, 2012, 03:52:07 PM »


or we need to find the ultimate genius of a manager who can guarantee top four with limited resources.


Step up Rafa Benitez...

Offline Something Awful

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #128 on: May 20, 2012, 03:54:07 PM »
Cups is always the priority. The biggest one is the league. But if we end up 5th next season and win a cup, I'll be delighted.

I think finishing fourth without a cup will bring us closer to the league title than fifth with a cup.
'Despite their  cup pedigree - since they've returned to the top flight in 1962 - Everton have, after today's results, once again gone further in the FA Cup than their much vaunted neighbours. For the record it's Everton 23 Liverpool 22  and 7 ties in 52 seasons'

Offline Anthony

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #129 on: May 20, 2012, 03:54:14 PM »

As a side note, that whole "If you win but didn't qualify next year rule" that everyone is whinging about now -- unless I'm gravely mistaken it was invented for Liverpool after Istanbul.  Certainly we took advantage of it.



No it was there before that - Real Zaragoza lost out when Real Madrid won before us. It was there because there used to be a 2nd Group Stage of 4 groups and they didn't want 2 teams from the same country in those groups.

What happened in 2005 is that the FA exploited a loophole where they were responsible for choosing who they entered and they chose to nominate Everton knowing that UEFA would be under pressure to let us in as well. UEFA closed that loophole in 2005 rather than abolishing the rule and it's actually gone against us now as well (If Spurs could enter the CL as well we'd probably be in EL QR4 and Everton in our QR3 slot)

Stupid Stupid Rule!
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #130 on: May 20, 2012, 03:55:15 PM »
So if Chelsea, Arsenal, Barca, Man City and United drop out of Champions League every year for the next 10 years, they are still going to be able to buy the world's best players in 2022?

For ten years?... of course not. You must know that's a daft thing to say so why bother?  Man City only qualified for the Champions League for the first time two years ago so it's pretty self-evident that they can buy the best players without the CL income. Of course financial fair play will impact on that down the line but they have done their financial doping and have a very expensive team already.

In 2010-11 United had a revenue of 367m, Real Madrid 480m, Barca 450m, Bayern 321m, Arsenal 251m, Chelsea 250m. Ours was 203m. Even with a decent run to the knockout stages we'd only add around 30m to that. The biggest jump for us was winning in 2005 when we added 40m to the previous year's revenue but still only moved up to 7th. Since then the top clubs have streaked away through increase in other commercial revenue and TV money.

If you look at the Deloitte money league we are in about the same place (8th or 9th) regardless of whether we're in the CL, the EL or the Carling Cup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League#2009.E2.80.9310

We should be more worried about the stadium development than worrying about 20 or 30 million from the Champions League.
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Offline Father Ted

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #131 on: May 20, 2012, 03:55:52 PM »
It wasn't a choice between one or the other. The two weren't mutually exclusive, it's just our poor league campaign meant we were only going to get anywhere in the cup's. Hindsight's great of course but if we'd invested our cash more wisely last summer we could've achieved both. Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea all had relatively poor league campaigns, we beat Chelsea three times, won at Arsenal and Spurs fell away badly after a promising mid-season. None of them were light years ahead of us.

After so long it was great to get a trophy and two visits to Wembley but you can see why the owners targeted Champions League, basically we need the money it would provide for transfer fees and the allure that being in the Champions League will bring so as to get the type of players who can help us win things. Vicious circle, really.

Regular champions league money gives you the platform to build up a squad that could maybe compete for the league, like it did with Rafa. I'm not sure what the alternative is, unless we got mega-moneybags owners and bought our way up the table. We did get a relatively large cash injection for transfers from FSG it's just unfortunately we pissed large amounts of it up the wall (Downing at £20 mill for example).

Offline kennedy81

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #132 on: May 20, 2012, 03:55:52 PM »
And let's be straight - for the clubs that win the league now and are likely to win the European Cup, the Champions League money isn't what allows them to buy the best players and pay the best wages. It's just part of their overall income. Unless we have deeper pockets the idea that qualification for the CL will lift us onto the financial level of Chelsea, Arsenal, Barca, Man City and United is a joke.


but it never has,

yet Rafa manged to get us CL qualification quite regularly.
it means we can get close enough to them to compete.

it's also vital that we don't let the like of spurs or newcastle steal a march on us over the next few years or we're really going to be in the shit.
how many cups do people think we're going to be winning when we're languishing in mid-table limbo?

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Re: Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #133 on: May 20, 2012, 03:55:58 PM »
Cups is always the priority. The biggest one is the league. But if we end up 5th next season and win a cup, I'll be delighted.
me too

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #134 on: May 20, 2012, 04:00:57 PM »
Top 4 (Bar this seasons fluke) > Carling cup. All day everyday.


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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #135 on: May 20, 2012, 04:01:20 PM »
Cups is always the priority. The biggest one is the league. But if we end up 5th next season and win a cup, I'll be delighted.

The league(which is a title not a cup) is and always will be the priority. Cups are a brucey bonus.

As for finishing 5th and winning a cup next season i'd be over moon as it would show progress, but I wouldn't be happy with just that every season.

Offline Shannon

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #136 on: May 20, 2012, 04:01:35 PM »
Cups is always the priority. The biggest one is the league. But if we end up 5th next season and win a cup, I'll be delighted.

Would you have been happy with the same scenario in 2004?
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #137 on: May 20, 2012, 04:02:42 PM »
No it was there before that - Real Zaragoza lost out when Real Madrid won before us. It was there because there used to be a 2nd Group Stage of 4 groups and they didn't want 2 teams from the same country in those groups.

What happened in 2005 is that the FA exploited a loophole where they were responsible for choosing who they entered and they chose to nominate Everton knowing that UEFA would be under pressure to let us in as well. UEFA closed that loophole in 2005 rather than abolishing the rule and it's actually gone against us now as well (If Spurs could enter the CL as well we'd probably be in EL QR4 and Everton in our QR3 slot)

Stupid Stupid Rule!

Anthony, the rule never allowed for the title holder and the top four to qualify. UEFA fudged it because the Premier League stitched us up. What should have happened is Everton going into the UEFA Cup.

The reason we couldn't take our rightful spot in the group stages as top seeds is that the tenth placed country benefit if the TH spot is not used. This generally happens as the winner almost always qualifies by league position. If we'd got fourth then TH is not used and a place in the group would have become free allowing Turkey to move up one into the direct group stage entry. That then cascades down through the qualification tables and the only way to get us on without upsetting anyone was to put us in a the first qualifying round.

We were shafted in 2005, right up the jacksie.  It has no relevance to this season.
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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #138 on: May 20, 2012, 04:09:28 PM »
If 4th meant CL, then def 4th.. If 4th as in Spurs 4th then no Carling cup.

That said i think Rafa could give us both.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #139 on: May 20, 2012, 04:13:47 PM »
but it never has,

yet Rafa manged to get us CL qualification quite regularly.
it means we can get close enough to them to compete.

it's also vital that we don't let the like of spurs or newcastle steal a march on us over the next few years or we're really going to be in the shit.
how many cups do people think we're going to be winning when we're languishing in mid-table limbo?


Income in millons taken from the Deloitte rich list:

2005

Real Madrid 275
Man United 246
Milan 234
Juventus 229
Chelsea 221
Barcelona 208
Bayern 190
Liverpool 181

2011
Real Madrid 480
Barcelona 451
Man United 367
Bayern 321
Arsenal 251
Chelsea 250
Milan 235
Inter 211
Liverpool 203

The world has moved on from 2005, or even 2007. Our income has increased by 20 million, United's by 100 million and Real and Barca by 200 million. Then there are clubs like Chelsea and City who have financial doping.

There's no question that Rafa was a tactical genius, which is why I said that we need massive improvement in income or an incredible genius to compete at the top table.

All the bullish posts saying: let's focus on the league and play the kids in the cups are way off the mark. We should be winning trophies to attract sponsorship and TV exposure. Everton finished above us in the league this year - who had the better exposure and looks the most successful on the pitch?
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Offline macca888

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #140 on: May 20, 2012, 04:21:03 PM »
Jesus fucking Christ! Did John Henry and Tom Werner sack every fuckers sense of humour as well this week? I'm pretty sure Alan was making a joke about 4th place not being any good this season anyway, not much more. Light hearted. Remember in the time before this week when the expression in our eyes glimmered, the corners of our mouth upturned slightly, our noses wrinkled and we made hat "hur hur hur" noise from the back of our throats? But instead, all we get is people jumping on the this is serious business internet stuff, and the same old shite that you've all already posted about 150 times this week.

On one side we've got -

"Ramble, fucking ramble Champions League. Ramble, fucking ramble top players. Ramble, fucking ramble not even close to 4th spot. Ramble, fucking ramble wage structure and IBETDA or whatever the fuck it is. Ramble, fucking ramble Kenny deserved to go. Ramble, fucking ramble FSG have got a plan in place for a fantastic future structure. Ramble, fucking ramble money is god. Ramble, fucking ramble in 5 years we'll win the league with the nex manager."


On the other side we've got -

"Ramble, fucking ramble Carling Cup. Ramble, fucking ramble top players are all mercenary twats. Ramble, fucking ramble nex year we'd have got 4th spot. Ramble, fucking ramble we shouldn't be bean counters. Ramble, fucking ramble Kenny deserved more time. Ramble, fucking ramble FSG haven't got a fucking clue. Ramble, fucking ramble Robbiey is god, not money. Ramble, fucking ramble in 5 years we'll  more managers at this rate."


Seriously, how many times can you say the same old shite without getting sick of your own voices. There's posters on here whose fingers must be half an inch shorter after this week. And guess what, no matter how many times you type, the person who has typed the polar opposite IS NOT GOING TO FUCKING AGREE WITH YOU. Typing it once makes it an opinion. Typing it 150 times doesn't make it any more than opinion. It just echoes the same opinion like a fart in a cathedral. Here's an idea for you. Next time you go to post the same fucking view you've made a million times, step away from your keyboard and talk to a friend or loved one instead. I'm sure it will make you just a little bit happier. Or even next time you see a thread or new topic, just think to yourself "is this the same sort of topic I've seen before and posted my views in? Is it really such a good idea to post the same thing that you've posted in every other thread in it, even if means you're actually trying to alter the intentions of the original thread just to shoehorn the same shite into it? If the answer is no, switch the telly on, listen to some music, go for a walk, read a book, have a quick knockabou with he kids in the garden, kiss your missus or just have a wank. In fact do anything other than post the same old shite time after time after time after fucking time. Please.

Regardless of whatever else they can be accused of rightly or wrongly, it seems that FSG's decisions are sucking the souls and character out of you this week. The old saying has changed "if you don't laugh, you'd have to cry." Apparently not any more. This week it's changed to "If you don't laugh, you'd have to jump on the internet and type furiously, even if it is the same thing over and over again. For the love of God, stop being so fucking serious all the time.
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Offline csgreen

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #141 on: May 20, 2012, 04:22:25 PM »
Winning the Carling Cup takes 3 or 4 good performances.  Coming in fourth requires 20-25 good performances.  You can fluke your way to a Carling Cup (not that we did this year obviously, but since we're talking about a hypothetical Carling Cup, it is certainly possible...cough...Birmingham!).  You can't fluke your way to fourth place.  Fourth place means something about the team going forward.  Winning the Carling Cup means nothing about the team going forward.  I'd take fourth.       

Offline soxfan

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #142 on: May 20, 2012, 04:23:28 PM »
For ten years?... of course not. You must know that's a daft thing to say so why bother? 
You started a daft thread, and you knew it....
I should have put a wink smiley in the OP.
You are a smart person Alan, no doubt. But you knew exactly what you were doing when you started this thread. This thread does nothing to improve relations among fans. It is a shit-stirring thread aimed to get fans fighting. Then you sit there behind your keyboard and try to look innocent as you keep shifting the argument round and round. Job well done.

Being as smart as you are, you could have instead started a thread and eloquently attempted to bring Liverpool fans together during this volatile period. But no, that's not as much fun as shit-stirring is it?

Offline kcbworth

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #143 on: May 20, 2012, 04:29:20 PM »
So glad the majority of our games after Feb were meaningless. Was great seeing the players out there not caring what the result was in most of our games.

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #144 on: May 20, 2012, 04:30:08 PM »
another question could be how long would fans be happy with 7th/8th place finishes but a carling cup win as opposed to no trophy but finish 2nd-6th?it was only at the start of THIS season that some of our fans were dismissing the carling cup as something for the kids and nothing else as it was important to finish top 4 and reclaim our place at the top table (whatever the hell that should be). now it seems that we see the carling cup as some massive achievement to be feared by all.

however the reality is that if all we won year after year the fans would start questioning why more isn't being done to get us to the champions league. there would be moaning about the cup runs hurting our league form, the owners not spending enough to allow us to challenge higher up, the manager would obviously not know what to do to get the league results and therefore should be sacked, on and on and on the calls would go for us to be doing better and the carling cup would start to mean nothing.

personally i'm happy we won a trophy this year, as it's not as though our league form would have been any better if we had gone out early anyway, so at least it's given me a comeback to the Everton fans i know who crowed about finishing above us. "yeah you finished higher than us but you won fuck all, at least we have a cup to go with our shit season, what have you got?"
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Offline kcbworth

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #145 on: May 20, 2012, 04:32:28 PM »
On one side we've got -

"Ramble, fucking ramble Champions League. Ramble, fucking ramble top players. Ramble, fucking ramble not even close to 4th spot. Ramble, fucking ramble wage structure and IBETDA or whatever the fuck it is. Ramble, fucking ramble Kenny deserved to go. Ramble, fucking ramble FSG have got a plan in place for a fantastic future structure. Ramble, fucking ramble money is god. Ramble, fucking ramble in 5 years we'll win the league with the nex manager."


On the other side we've got -

"Ramble, fucking ramble Carling Cup. Ramble, fucking ramble top players are all mercenary twats. Ramble, fucking ramble nex year we'd have got 4th spot. Ramble, fucking ramble we shouldn't be bean counters. Ramble, fucking ramble Kenny deserved more time. Ramble, fucking ramble FSG haven't got a fucking clue. Ramble, fucking ramble Robbiey is god, not money. Ramble, fucking ramble in 5 years we'll  more managers at this rate."

Personally I'm on the side of Kenny didn't deserve to go, but his going doesn't mean it's the end of the world, and who knows, maybe could actually be the catalyst for an ever better period for the club, where we don't argue about 4th or Carling, but we argue about how we can get our squad across the line in the cups given they're on the top in the league and Europe.

Offline dazzler79

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #146 on: May 20, 2012, 04:33:00 PM »
I don't think anyone was aiming for fourth place per se but rather Champions League qualification.
I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager.

Thank you so much once more and always remember - You'll Never Walk Alone

Rafa Benitez

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #147 on: May 20, 2012, 04:34:20 PM »
Jesus fucking Christ! Did John Henry and Tom Werner sack every fuckers sense of humour as well this week? I'm pretty sure Alan was making a joke about 4th place not being any good this season anyway, not much more. Light hearted. Remember in the time before this week when the expression in our eyes glimmered, the corners of our mouth upturned slightly, our noses wrinkled and we made hat "hur hur hur" noise from the back of our throats? But instead, all we get is people jumping on the this is serious business internet stuff, and the same old shite that you've all already posted about 150 times this week.

On one side we've got -

"Ramble, fucking ramble Champions League. Ramble, fucking ramble top players. Ramble, fucking ramble not even close to 4th spot. Ramble, fucking ramble wage structure and IBETDA or whatever the fuck it is. Ramble, fucking ramble Kenny deserved to go. Ramble, fucking ramble FSG have got a plan in place for a fantastic future structure. Ramble, fucking ramble money is god. Ramble, fucking ramble in 5 years we'll win the league with the nex manager."


On the other side we've got -

"Ramble, fucking ramble Carling Cup. Ramble, fucking ramble top players are all mercenary twats. Ramble, fucking ramble nex year we'd have got 4th spot. Ramble, fucking ramble we shouldn't be bean counters. Ramble, fucking ramble Kenny deserved more time. Ramble, fucking ramble FSG haven't got a fucking clue. Ramble, fucking ramble Robbiey is god, not money. Ramble, fucking ramble in 5 years we'll  more managers at this rate."


Seriously, how many times can you say the same old shite without getting sick of your own voices. There's posters on here whose fingers must be half an inch shorter after this week. And guess what, no matter how many times you type, the person who has typed the polar opposite IS NOT GOING TO FUCKING AGREE WITH YOU. Typing it once makes it an opinion. Typing it 150 times doesn't make it any more than opinion. It just echoes the same opinion like a fart in a cathedral. Here's an idea for you. Next time you go to post the same fucking view you've made a million times, step away from your keyboard and talk to a friend or loved one instead. I'm sure it will make you just a little bit happier. Or even next time you see a thread or new topic, just think to yourself "is this the same sort of topic I've seen before and posted my views in? Is it really such a good idea to post the same thing that you've posted in every other thread in it, even if means you're actually trying to alter the intentions of the original thread just to shoehorn the same shite into it? If the answer is no, switch the telly on, listen to some music, go for a walk, read a book, have a quick knockabou with he kids in the garden, kiss your missus or just have a wank. In fact do anything other than post the same old shite time after time after time after fucking time. Please.

Regardless of whatever else they can be accused of rightly or wrongly, it seems that FSG's decisions are sucking the souls and character out of you this week. The old saying has changed "if you don't laugh, you'd have to cry." Apparently not any more. This week it's changed to "If you don't laugh, you'd have to jump on the internet and type furiously, even if it is the same thing over and over again. For the love of God, stop being so fucking serious all the time.

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #148 on: May 20, 2012, 04:36:25 PM »
Yeah of course:



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Offline Anthony

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #149 on: May 20, 2012, 04:36:57 PM »
Anthony, the rule never allowed for the title holder and the top four to qualify. UEFA fudged it because the Premier League stitched us up. What should have happened is Everton going into the UEFA Cup.



I think that's what I said - but in 2005 it was because the rule started "At the request of the National Association concerned" and the FA chose not to make that request  (Lennart Johannson appearing on Radio 5's Sportsweek indicating UEFA would have to find a way of letting us in probably encouraged the FA to try their luck in that regard). The loophole that was removed was taking it out of the FA's hands but I think they should just have abolished the rule.

As for this season my reading is that if Spurs did not have to drop down into the EL then Newcastle (5th) would have taken Chelsea's EL spot in the Group Stages, we would have taken Newcastle's spot and Everton would have taken ours (although the vague interpretation of the new access points could have meant Everton took Newcastle's spot instead)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 04:41:00 PM by Anthony »
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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #150 on: May 20, 2012, 04:39:08 PM »
What I find interesting about all the fans that say top 4 finish over actually winning things needs to be the priority is that they completely ignore that a team has been doing that for what 6/7 years. Arsenal fans in the main seem to have have had enough of Wenger and his 'successful' top 4 finish every year, why? Because they actually want to win some trophies, all this 'if you finish in the top 4 you get more money and can attract better players so you can compete for the title' doesn't seem to pan out, if anything, Arsenal have ended up selling their best players and getting lesser players in and they have made the top 4 every year for what 10 years? Give me trophies every time.

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #151 on: May 20, 2012, 04:41:25 PM »
Our league campaign was disappointing. Disappointing not disastrous.

The honours board at the Emirates has yet to record any silverware since they moved in. I'm sure they like the money from the CL (so would I) but a trophy wins EVERY time.

It goes down in the history books, it adds glory to the club. Call me an old romantic but pots are prizes, not somewhere to stash your wedge.
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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #152 on: May 20, 2012, 04:41:55 PM »
Jesus fucking Christ! Did John Henry and Tom Werner sack every fuckers sense of humour as well this week? I'm pretty sure Alan was making a joke about 4th place not being any good this season anyway, not much more. Light hearted. Remember in the time before this week when the expression in our eyes glimmered, the corners of our mouth upturned slightly, our noses wrinkled and we made hat "hur hur hur" noise from the back of our throats? But instead, all we get is people jumping on the this is serious business internet stuff, and the same old shite that you've all already posted about 150 times this week.

On one side we've got -

"Ramble, fucking ramble Champions League. Ramble, fucking ramble top players. Ramble, fucking ramble not even close to 4th spot. Ramble, fucking ramble wage structure and IBETDA or whatever the fuck it is. Ramble, fucking ramble Kenny deserved to go. Ramble, fucking ramble FSG have got a plan in place for a fantastic future structure. Ramble, fucking ramble money is god. Ramble, fucking ramble in 5 years we'll win the league with the nex manager."


On the other side we've got -

"Ramble, fucking ramble Carling Cup. Ramble, fucking ramble top players are all mercenary twats. Ramble, fucking ramble nex year we'd have got 4th spot. Ramble, fucking ramble we shouldn't be bean counters. Ramble, fucking ramble Kenny deserved more time. Ramble, fucking ramble FSG haven't got a fucking clue. Ramble, fucking ramble Robbiey is god, not money. Ramble, fucking ramble in 5 years we'll  more managers at this rate."


Seriously, how many times can you say the same old shite without getting sick of your own voices. There's posters on here whose fingers must be half an inch shorter after this week. And guess what, no matter how many times you type, the person who has typed the polar opposite IS NOT GOING TO FUCKING AGREE WITH YOU. Typing it once makes it an opinion. Typing it 150 times doesn't make it any more than opinion. It just echoes the same opinion like a fart in a cathedral. Here's an idea for you. Next time you go to post the same fucking view you've made a million times, step away from your keyboard and talk to a friend or loved one instead. I'm sure it will make you just a little bit happier. Or even next time you see a thread or new topic, just think to yourself "is this the same sort of topic I've seen before and posted my views in? Is it really such a good idea to post the same thing that you've posted in every other thread in it, even if means you're actually trying to alter the intentions of the original thread just to shoehorn the same shite into it? If the answer is no, switch the telly on, listen to some music, go for a walk, read a book, have a quick knockabou with he kids in the garden, kiss your missus or just have a wank. In fact do anything other than post the same old shite time after time after time after fucking time. Please.

Regardless of whatever else they can be accused of rightly or wrongly, it seems that FSG's decisions are sucking the souls and character out of you this week. The old saying has changed "if you don't laugh, you'd have to cry." Apparently not any more. This week it's changed to "If you don't laugh, you'd have to jump on the internet and type furiously, even if it is the same thing over and over again. For the love of God, stop being so fucking serious all the time.

But, but, but ... he disagreed with me .... Must argue back grrrrrr       ::)

The man makes a great point.

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Offline jeremyh94

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #153 on: May 20, 2012, 04:42:16 PM »
This 4th place/cup debate ignores at least one thing: if you are in fourth place or higher it means you have won more league games than if you finish (say) 8th. Which means that on more occasions you have gone home from the match happy and not having to ask why oh why did we throw away yet another lead.
Someone once said something about the league being bread and butter. How many of us can say that at the start of the season they were advocating winning the Carling Cup at the expense of all else?

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #154 on: May 20, 2012, 04:44:24 PM »
If we were fourth, it would have been a successful campaign. Carling cup or no carling cup. It would have meant a lot more positives throughout the season than what we have currently. Why not just go to championship and win FA cup and Carling cup every year? Because it would mean so much more success than pretty much all the English clubs?

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #155 on: May 20, 2012, 04:45:10 PM »
What I find interesting about all the fans that say top 4 finish over actually winning things needs to be the priority is that they completely ignore that a team has been doing that for what 6/7 years. Arsenal fans in the main seem to have have had enough of Wenger and his 'successful' top 4 finish every year, why? Because they actually want to win some trophies, all this 'if you finish in the top 4 you get more money and can attract better players so you can compete for the title' doesn't seem to pan out, if anything, Arsenal have ended up selling their best players and getting lesser players in and they have made the top 4 every year for what 10 years? Give me trophies every time.

If you fail to win a trophy for 10 years then sacrificing CL for 1 year may appeal to the fans

If you fail to qualify for the CL for 2 years then sacrificing a trophy to get back in will appeal to the money men and the fans.

Our problem has been we had not won a trophy for 6 years nor had we qualified for the CL for 2 years hence the dilemma.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 05:07:00 PM by Anthony »
"We will win the European Cup one day. Aim for the moon and end up among the stars" - Gérard Houllier 2001

Thankyou Rafa and Jürgen  for taking us to Heaven!

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Offline kcbworth

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #156 on: May 20, 2012, 05:09:44 PM »
Club - This isn't good enough, we should be at least in the mix for next years European competition.
Fans - Quality for the Champions Leage?!? 4th?!?! Club isn't showing any ambition!!!! Who cares if we finish 8th and come home with our worst record in 50 years... we were never going to compete with Manchesters anyway, so more than happy to not try in that comp.

I still don't understand why on one hand fans are showing no ambition, and on the other accusing the club of showing no ambition. Fucking hell...

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #157 on: May 20, 2012, 05:10:43 PM »
You started a daft thread, and you knew it....You are a smart person Alan, no doubt. But you knew exactly what you were doing when you started this thread. This thread does nothing to improve relations among fans. It is a shit-stirring thread aimed to get fans fighting. Then you sit there behind your keyboard and try to look innocent as you keep shifting the argument round and round. Job well done.

Being as smart as you are, you could have instead started a thread and eloquently attempted to bring Liverpool fans together during this volatile period. But no, that's not as much fun as shit-stirring is it?

Read the first line of macca's post above. Fuck me what a humourless place this has become. Aimed at getting the fans fighting? No I stupidly thought it would get the fans thinking or at least smiling at the irony of recent events and the impact they have had on the 4th or Carling Cup debate - but clearly that's too much to hope for these days.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 05:13:23 PM by Alan_X »
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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #158 on: May 20, 2012, 05:16:47 PM »
Personally I'd rather have the champions league next year. That doesn't mean I would want fourth place every single year and no cups, I just think the cup win was good and now next year try and get a CL spot to put us back on the path and in contention for the titles Liverpool football club really desires, the CL and the Premiership.

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Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #159 on: May 20, 2012, 05:18:28 PM »
Since you are asking. 4th Spot (or better) any day of the week. The Carling Cup is a bit of a distraction.