Author Topic: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent  (Read 249829 times)

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2880 on: April 13, 2012, 12:04:31 AM »
Sources close to Comolli indicated that he had been stunned by his sudden dismissal, having been informed by Henry and chairman Tom Werner late on Tuesday night. The Liverpool players were then told at a hastily arranged meeting at the Melwood training ground the next morning.

Clearly he did not left the club by mutual consent.

Do you understand what mutual consent actually means?
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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2881 on: April 13, 2012, 12:04:56 AM »
I've been out all day. Coaches/Physios going? Cryuff?

What on earth has happened since 10am? Anyone who can give me a round up of what has happened, I would appreciate it loads.


in short, comolli got sacked as he wasnt doing his job well enough, bruckner much the same i think, werner said there will be a new DoF and that they have full confidence in kenny,
there seems to be talk of cryuff for this role, apparently van gaal has said he is interested if approached,

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2882 on: April 13, 2012, 12:05:16 AM »
sorry if I may be being dumb here... but isnt that what you want from a Director of Football strategy???

Quote
"It covers pretty much all of the football side," added Comolli. "It's basically a day-to-day relationship with the manager and his coaching staff, it's also medical and sports science, performance analysis, player liaison, team travel, scouting and negotiating transfer contracts. A big part of it is the academy."

That's how Comolli described the role he's just left.

Quote
As I said, it's being involved in everything which is related to football, whether it's here at Chapel Street or at the training ground at Melwood or at Kirkby. Having a daily involvement with Roy - we've been talking on a daily basis, sometimes having small meetings twice a day or three times a day - obviously working with the sports science team and the doctor, working with the video analysts, working with the academy, working with the scouts, that's the area I will cover.

So your role covers a wide basis then...

Yes it is, because that's what football clubs are now. It's massive. You wake up in the morning and you get an email from a scout who has been somewhere in South America or someone else and he's sending you a report saying 'I really like this player'. It's definitely 24/7.

That's what he had to say of his old role as Director of Football Strategy.

Both roles see far more wide ranging than determining how the club should play and develop their players. A lot of Comolli's job appeared to be angled towards scouting (at a young age and upwards) and expanding the scouting network. I'm not sure where Cruyff could help there as I don't think he has any connections to any scouts. Similarly Comolli had a law degree and I'm pretty sure he was responsible for drawing up contracts, renegotiating contracts, the first team wage bill, the reserves wage bill etc.

Again, all that seems far out of line with anything Cruyff (or arguably Van Gaal) would provide. At Ajax his job seems to be to ensure they stay true to their philosophy of developing players, and revamping it if needs be.

We've already got someone who does a job very similar to that at the club. Pep Segura is the technical director at the academy who designs the clubs training regimes from the U8s upwards, unless I've missed something. He's the one who ensures all our youngsters play to a certain system and all that jazz.

Both of Comolli's roles (if they were every any different) seem far more in line with what the likes of Branca, Monchi, Corvino etc are responsible for at their respective clubs, rather than being the figurehead for how the teams should play. There seems to be far more 'football administration' in Comolli's job than is involved in Cruyff's.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 01:10:37 AM by Juan Loco »
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2883 on: April 13, 2012, 12:08:52 AM »

in short, comolli got sacked as he wasnt doing his job well enough, bruckner much the same i think, werner said there will be a new DoF and that they have full confidence in kenny,
there seems to be talk of cryuff for this role, apparently van gaal has said he is interested if approached,

Bruckner is completely different by all accounts. The job he's done is good and the person he put in place is moving up to take over. Comolli as gone. Bruckner is leaving at the end of the season.
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Offline .Mike

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2884 on: April 13, 2012, 12:09:44 AM »
in short, comolli got sacked as he wasnt doing his job well enough, bruckner much the same i think, werner said there will be a new DoF and that they have full confidence in kenny,
there seems to be talk of cryuff for this role, apparently van gaal has said he is interested if approached,
I knew the Comolli news, didn't know about Bruckner. The PR team has had a revamp too hasn't it?

+ also will there be a CEO? I know David Dein has been spotted at the last two home games.

Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2885 on: April 13, 2012, 12:10:34 AM »
first in, first out.

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2886 on: April 13, 2012, 12:12:14 AM »
Exactly, and that's why Txiki is a dream candidate, to my mind.  Barca were going through a rough patch, brought in Laporta as president and Begiristain to do the deals, and he oversaw them bringing in Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Alves ... basically, the players that brought them right back up to the top.  Think he is the perfect candidate if we're looking for someone to come and do the same for us.

To be fair though, it would be hypocritical of me not to mention it, because I love to point out just how fucking wasteful and bankrolled Barcelona are, Bergiristain would've been responsible for Hleb, Ibrahimovic, Henrique, Keirrison, Zambrotta, Quaresma, Caceras, Chygrynskiy et al. That's a lot of money wasted that Barcelona could afford to get away with. Although except for Quaresma and Zambrotta, I think all might have been Guardiola's targets? Either way. It's a lot of money up the wall, but you can't argue with the appointments made during that time, nor the timing of them as royhendo's quote from Graham Hunter's book points out. There's also plenty of quality signings in the same time as well. And fuck me they were successful.
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2887 on: April 13, 2012, 12:12:55 AM »
sorry if I may be being dumb here... but isnt that what you want from a Director of Football strategy???

A Director of Football needs to be able to combine the elements of long-term planning and vision with football administrative duties, dealing with the financial side of things (contracts, agents) etc. Bergiristain makes more sense in that capacity.

To be fair though, it would be hypocritical of me not to mention it, because I love to point out just how fucking wasteful and bankrolled Barcelona are, Bergiristain would've been responsible for Hleb, Ibrahimovic, Henrique, Keirrison, Zambrotta, Quaresma, Caceras, Chygrynskiy et al. That's a lot of money wasted that Barcelona could afford to get away with. Although except for Quaresma and Zambrotta, I think all might have been Guardiola's targets? Either way. It's a lot of money up the wall, but you can't argue with the appointments made during that time, nor the timing of them as royhendo's quote from Graham Hunter's book points out. There's also plenty of quality signings in the same time as well. And fuck me they were successful.

My thoughts exactly

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2888 on: April 13, 2012, 12:13:09 AM »
Bruckner is completely different by all accounts. The job he's done is good and the person he put in place is moving up to take over. Comolli as gone. Bruckner is leaving at the end of the season.

Darren Burgess will take over? Where did you get that from Alan? Haven't seen it, but then there's been a lot of news today.
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Offline djschembri

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2889 on: April 13, 2012, 12:14:54 AM »
Darren Burgess will take over? Where did you get that from Alan? Haven't seen it, but then there's been a lot of news today.


IIRC it is in the Times

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2890 on: April 13, 2012, 12:15:21 AM »
Bruckner is completely different by all accounts. The job he's done is good and the person he put in place is moving up to take over. Comolli as gone. Bruckner is leaving at the end of the season.
Bruckner leaving is the most puzzling dismissal made today. The paper's are saying it's down to Kenny and Bruckner not seeing eye to eye but i have no idea why FSG would choose to back Kenny ( a non medically qualified man) over Bruckner ( a well respected Doctor) when it comes to the medical care of the players.

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2891 on: April 13, 2012, 12:15:26 AM »
Exactly, and that's why Txiki is a dream candidate, to my mind.  Barca were going through a rough patch, brought in Laporta as president and Begiristain to do the deals, and he oversaw them bringing in Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Alves ... basically, the players that brought them right back up to the top.  Think he is the perfect candidate if we're looking for someone to come and do the same for us.

I'd love to see it, does anybody know how good his English is?

I'd assume that would be a pre-requisite to the job, seeing as our owners speak English and all our playing staff and coaching will be delivered in English.
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Offline Severely

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2892 on: April 13, 2012, 12:15:34 AM »
I don't feel Cruyff would come, isn't he doing big things at Ajax right now? And out of the other mentioned candidates, Van Gaal also has a huge ego and I'm not convinced he would work well with Kenny, while Begiristain is a bit dodgy for me. Didn't Barca have massive financial problems because of deals like the Ibra swap, which has caused their current president to claim the previous management was completely irresponsible? Thought that was why Barca have sold their shirt to Qatar. Not sure he would work out in an environment that needs to be self-sustaining.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 12:17:46 AM by Severely »
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2893 on: April 13, 2012, 12:16:48 AM »
Darren Burgess will take over? Where did you get that from Alan? Haven't seen it, but then there's been a lot of news today.

In Tony's piece in the Times.
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Offline Sissoko78

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2894 on: April 13, 2012, 12:17:24 AM »
From the dead thread .....

______________________________________


The appointment of a new DoF will give us a really interesting insight into FSG's thinking and boldness.

Comolli got axed because he didn't follow Moneyball principles.  He mouthed the right things, and has a friendship with Mr Moneyball, Billy Beane, but at the end of the day there is nothing to suggest Comolli identified a market inefficiency, let alone took steps to exploit it.

The big question for FSG is do they go for:

i) another football industry insider like Comolli who says they understand Moneyball and want to apply it (and run the risk they go on their own indisciplined flights of fancy), or

ii) go for a data-driven football outsider who will definitely apply Moneyball thinking, or

iii) adopt a hybrid approach, where you appoint a football industry insider to do the glad handling, but also appoint an outsider to crunch the data and make it clear to the glad handler there's no debate about transfer strategy.

I think option ii) is most likely - FSG really believe in this type of thinking and really want to see it applied.  However, I note Werner's suggestion they might tweak the structure, suggesting iii) is a good chance as well.

It's hard to think of another football insider who could convince them they are a Moneyball true believer. 

It may be that we get someone we've never heard of before, or that comes from baseball or a non-sporting background.

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2895 on: April 13, 2012, 12:17:29 AM »
I'd love to see it, does anybody know how good his English is?

I'd assume that would be a pre-requisite to the job, seeing as our owners speak English and all our playing staff and coaching will be delivered in English.

He's fluent. Chelsea have been after him previously but apparently he turned down the job because they had no clear idea of what his role would've been.

Apparently City have looked at him as well, but that sounds more rumour mongering than the Chelsea link, which most of the broadsheets reported.
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Offline TipTopKop

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2896 on: April 13, 2012, 12:18:43 AM »
That's a lot of money wasted that Barcelona could afford to get away with.
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Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2897 on: April 13, 2012, 12:19:07 AM »
Well I think Comolli's job was too broad, too much for one person to be in charge of. I would like to see us break that position up into two or three. Cruft knows football and if you compliment that with guys that know media, negotiating etc underneath him he could be fantastic. I'm a firm believer that guys who are as successful as Cruff has been regardless of job changes they'll always be successful as long as they are given an environment where it's possible.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2898 on: April 13, 2012, 12:20:37 AM »
Bruckner leaving is the most puzzling dismissal made today. The paper's are saying it's down to Kenny and Bruckner not seeing eye to eye but i have no idea why FSG would choose to back Kenny ( a non medically qualified man) over Bruckner ( a well respected Doctor) when it comes to the medical care of the players.

That's reading to much into it. If Bruckner and Kenny don't get on then it's fairly straightforward to let Bruckner leave as there's a ready-made replacement in Burgess. That doesn't make Kenny a medical expert - and it doesn't mean Kenny is in charge of the medical care of the players.
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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2899 on: April 13, 2012, 12:23:47 AM »
From that article on the BBC site Txiki Begiristain would be my choice.
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Offline ziggyy

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2900 on: April 13, 2012, 12:25:00 AM »
Sources close to Comolli indicated that he had been stunned by his sudden dismissal, having been informed by Henry and chairman Tom Werner late on Tuesday night. The Liverpool players were then told at a hastily arranged meeting at the Melwood training ground the next morning.

Clearly he did not left the club by mutual consent.

He consented to the severance package... that's mutual consent.

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2901 on: April 13, 2012, 12:25:57 AM »
I don't know if this has been posted in here already, apologies if it has, but I found it a very bold statement by Mr Werner

"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football"

It sounds to me like Comolli just wasn't sticking to the plan and maybe had his own agenda.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2902 on: April 13, 2012, 12:26:10 AM »
From the dead thread .....

______________________________________


The appointment of a new DoF will give us a really interesting insight into FSG's thinking and boldness.

Comolli got axed because he didn't follow Moneyball principles.  He mouthed the right things, and has a friendship with Mr Moneyball, Billy Beane, but at the end of the day there is nothing to suggest Comolli identified a market inefficiency, let alone took steps to exploit it.

The big question for FSG is do they go for:

i) another football industry insider like Comolli who says they understand Moneyball and want to apply it (and run the risk they go on their own indisciplined flights of fancy), or

ii) go for a data-driven football outsider who will definitely apply Moneyball thinking, or

iii) adopt a hybrid approach, where you appoint a football industry insider to do the glad handling, but also appoint an outsider to crunch the data and make it clear to the glad handler there's no debate about transfer strategy.

I think option ii) is most likely - FSG really believe in this type of thinking and really want to see it applied.  However, I note Werner's suggestion they might tweak the structure, suggesting iii) is a good chance as well.

It's hard to think of another football insider who could convince them they are a Moneyball true believer. 

It may be that we get someone we've never heard of before, or that comes from baseball or a non-sporting background.

your option ii) mis-states the nature of the 'baseball outsiders' in Moneyball. They were all baseball obsessives who wanted to define and analyse the statistics and metrics in baseball. Are there any equivalents in football with that level of analysis?  And as I argued in the Moneyball thread - I don't even think that anyone has worked out the equivalent metrics in football.
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Offline mokum11

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2903 on: April 13, 2012, 12:26:43 AM »
Clearly only a role as adviser on the youth system and the organisation of the club, Cruijff wouldn't take a job as director anymore because of his health and he  is busy with other stuff.

 David Dein would be a better man for the job, reached great things at Arsenal.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2904 on: April 13, 2012, 12:27:05 AM »
He consented to the severance package... that's mutual consent.

Exactly.
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Offline Dowling10

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2905 on: April 13, 2012, 12:29:41 AM »
Seen some brilliant spelling for Cruyff on RAWK tonight.

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2906 on: April 13, 2012, 12:29:43 AM »
Now I get that from a Canadian guy whose heavily involved in youth soccer in Canada, who gets it from people in and around Winter and De Clerk, (Toronto head and associate coaches) who the story goes couldn't bail out of Ajax fast enough when TFC came calling, based on Cruyff, his head games, and the poor future prospects of the club, which they blame on Johann. Therefore, he is not suitable for purpose.


You're misinformed, he's strongly in Cruyff's corner. Aaron Winter got elected in the member's council thanks to Cruyff and he made time to fly to Amsterdam each time to vote and show his support to the Cruyff camp of which he is part of.

Aaron Winter left Ajax in 2009 long before Cruyff's return.

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2907 on: April 13, 2012, 12:29:58 AM »

I think the institutionalisation of some kind of continuity with regard to the acquisition of players is a good thing. Managers will come and go, but having a culture and style that can be harmonised through all levels of the club from youth to reserve to first team, and identifying and getting players that fit into that style and culture, recognising things like balancing out areas where we need to strengthen, and even in the future recruiting managers who will be able to synchronise with that style and culture - to institutionalise that is a good thing.

The question then becomes how to do that structurally, and it means getting the right individual, it also means that that style and culture survives even the departure of any individual on the technical / footballing director side of things. Maybe what we need is something like a Strategic Football division or board, incorporating chief scout, a couple of wise head advisors (I'd get John Barnes in here) a Bossman who does the hustling, buying, trading, and who knits the whole thing together from youth to reserve to first team, and of course liaises closely with the manager who will be involved in the whole system.

Too many cooks to spoil the broth? Maybe. But if we institutionalise it broadly like this it can survive the moving on of individuals.

One thing is clear, getting this right isn't going to happen overnight or be easy. Despite the opportunities lost this season, I am encouraged that FSG have been decisive over this and are making changes and realise the need for them to get it right.

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2908 on: April 13, 2012, 12:30:44 AM »
Seen some brilliant spelling for Cruyff on RAWK tonight.

It's actually Cruijff, just like it should be van Nistelrooij.. but we Dutchies use Cruyff as well to not confuse foreigners even more.  ;D

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2909 on: April 13, 2012, 12:31:07 AM »
Just asking the question. Wouldn't a DOF in an ideal world want to employ a first team coach that they choose or at least have a major role in choosing? Isn't it important that the first team coach, how they play football etc is considering in the context of how you play throughout the youth levels when choosing them?

Offline macca888

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2910 on: April 13, 2012, 12:31:18 AM »
I doubt we could afford Cruyff's ciggy and cigar bill. It would be especially unwise to go for a heavy smoker after we'd sacked all the doctors and replaced them with Home and Bargain buckets and sponges. Go for a non-smoker Tom.
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Offline TipTopKop

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2911 on: April 13, 2012, 12:31:26 AM »
Seen some brilliant spelling for Cruyff on RAWK tonight.
was just thinking the same  ;D  don't know how many other combo's left to explore, we defo need a nickname

Offline exiledintheUSA

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2912 on: April 13, 2012, 12:32:51 AM »
was just thinking the same  ;D  don't know how many other combo's left to explore, we defo need a nickname

Joehan Jowhann Johann oh f*ck it
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Offline penga

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2913 on: April 13, 2012, 12:33:37 AM »
Think Brukner's exit was more amicable. He felt his work was done and provided the framework for our future fitness regime, he does move between organisations/clubs. It would seem odd to confirm he did a great job (providing the platform for the future, etc) and sack him unlike in Comolli's case where there are clear words of him not fitting the strategy or whatever and the positive words are more for saying thanks.

Offline Camarero25

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2914 on: April 13, 2012, 12:33:58 AM »
It's actually Cruijff, just like it should be van Nistelrooij.. but we Dutchies use Cruyff as well to not confuse foreigners even more.  ;D

Does that mean it's Dirk Kuijt?

Offline Dowling10

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2915 on: April 13, 2012, 12:34:09 AM »
It's actually Cruijff, just like it should be van Nistelrooij.. but we Dutchies use Cruyff as well to not confuse foreigners even more.  ;D

Always thought use were a sound bunch.

Offline Red Genius

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2916 on: April 13, 2012, 12:34:49 AM »
"I have been privileged and lucky to wear the legendary red shirt. No one can take it away from me. YNWA, I don't have to walk alone because Liverpool FC will always be in my heart."

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Offline Stussy

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2917 on: April 13, 2012, 12:35:36 AM »

I know I'm just speculating, but I wonder how Newcastle's success this season, and their scouting of players from the French league at relatively low cost, performing excellently and taking them to the verge of Champions League qualification, contributed to Commoli's dismissal. Doubly so because as a Frenchman he might have been expected to have scouted or brought those kinds of players here. Speculation I know but it did cross my mind before today how Newcastle's form this season and player acquisitions would look to FSG and their appraisal of Commoli's work.
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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2918 on: April 13, 2012, 12:35:44 AM »
Txiki would be my choice of the three the Beeb mention. Has been linked heavily with Man City recently.

Offline Les Willis

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2919 on: April 13, 2012, 12:36:05 AM »
Don't know what I've been doing all day, but have only just heard about Comolli. Quite shocked to be honest. It looks like he's the one to carry the can for this seasons poor league showing. At least the Directors are showing faith in Kenny, although you do often worry about the dreaded "vote of confidence"...