Author Topic: Support - You're Doing it Wrong  (Read 32033 times)

Offline Rhi

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Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« on: April 8, 2012, 04:59:33 PM »
I'll tell you what, I'd hate to be in the trenches with some of our supporters. Sorry. Not supporters. Fans.

I'm fucking sick of them. I'm sick of all the whining and bitching before a ball has been kicked. I swear to God, yesterday you'd have thought we had a team of Sunday League players on the pitch the way some of them were going on when the team sheet was announced. And then they have the audacity to expect those very same players who they can't give a little bit of fucking encouragement and respect to, to perform to the best of their abilities? How is it not obvious that it's part of the problem?

But I'm glad I've seen what they have to say. I'm glad because it's gradually been grating on me. Until I realised... This isn't right. The way I've been acting isn't right.

It's been going on all season. If we're not whining about Carroll, we're moaning about Carragher. If we're not moaning about Carragher, we're bitching about Adam. If we're not bitching about Adam, we're despairing at Henderson. And all the while we expect them to turn up, perform at the highest level, and "entertain" us. I include myself in that. I'm a bit ashamed of how I reacted to some of our players earlier this season. I'm even a bit ashamed at how I treated Roy Hodgson. What we've become is not what I was brought up on. What we've become is not how I was taught to be a Liverpool supporter.

I've supported Liverpool FC for as long as I can remember. I've been going to the match regularly for a decade. A decade that's seen us have four different managers, more cups than most clubs could ever dream of, more of the best nights in European history than any supporter has a right to live through, more angst than we should ever have to endure with our club, and more politics than should ever be a part of football. But we've always tried to do things in the right way, as supporters. I'd have backed Gerard Houllier to the last. I'd have fought to the death for Rafa Benitez. I didn't give Roy Hodgson the respect that a Liverpool manager deserved, but then we all know the mitigating circumstances there. And now we have Kenny. And I absolutely refuse to turn on him. No matter how bad things get.

They tell me that if we continue on this path then we're building for mediocrity, and they tell me that the players we have are not good enough for our club. And you know what? They might even be right. But there are more important things than that. And our identity as a club, the way we support our team, the things that are unique about Liverpool FC are more important than short term success. Right now a lot of us have lost sight of that. I include myself in that. Because I've acted like a c*nt this season too. But for me it ends now.

"Ah, but if we let things go much further, we'll end up like Villa, a mid-table ex-giant", we'd say, like drama queens. But that's all bollocks really. We played in a European Cup Final five years ago. We won it two years before that. And that was out of nowhere. "But we'd won the treble not long before that..." God. If only there was a comparison to make there, somewhere...

Anyway. I'm not arguing for the "patience" that some seem to think is such a terrible trait. But respect? Respect is something we fucking owe this club. This club that has given us some of the best days of our lives. I've seen them all on Twitter, with their sarcasm and their bitching about the arl arses who try to make these points. But you know what? The arl arses are fucking right. Too many of our supporters are spoiled brats when it comes to football, and they're becoming an absolute joke.

Some of the things that make our club so special are respect, patience (yeah, fucking patience), long-term vision, and togetherness. There are far, FAR too many of us who have forgotten that in the last few years of civil war. It's time to put a stop to acting like kids with a sense of entitlement. It's as much our responsibility to support the team and the club as it is theirs to perform. It's our job to be there - in the good times AND the bad. And the sad truth of the matter is, we are in much more danger of becoming one of those midtable teams in terms of culture than we are of ever becoming them in terms of success.

So next time you start to type out that sarcastic post or tweet, or the next time you want to stamp your feet about Carragher being in the starting line-up (as if you've watched the lads train all week and know what's what), have a look in the mirror and ask yourself whether that's really how a supporter should be acting?

I really have had enough of the negativity surrounding the club. I'm going to Wembley next week, and I'm going there expecting our players to fucking steamroller the Blueshite all the way back to their shitty shed. And if you're not? Then honestly? You're fucking doing it wrong.
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Offline Ben86

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #1 on: April 8, 2012, 05:06:18 PM »
Well said. All of it. It's plain to see that there are many things still going wrong at our club. But this thing, the support, that's something we are actually able to change. So let's start with that.

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #2 on: April 8, 2012, 05:06:57 PM »
Great post Rhi.
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Offline Midget

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #3 on: April 8, 2012, 05:11:17 PM »
Great post with a beautiful message and I agree with you but sadly football has changed a lot and with it the role of the supporter has changed as well. I wish we could maintain our values but it seems like wishful thinking. Football is changing and so is the society as a whole it's hard to stop the rot even if we had all the best intentions in the world. For me personally the identity of our club has always been more important than the trophies. It's true that we exist to win trophies but the identity of the club is the thing I relate to. It's the thing that makes me support the club through the storms. I felt like we were close to losing it under H&G and Hodgson and I dread to think what would happen if Kenny got the sack. We the supporters are the custodians of the club and it's values. We should be able to do better than we are now.
« Last Edit: April 8, 2012, 05:13:09 PM by Midget »

Offline Bigly Red Richie

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #4 on: April 8, 2012, 05:13:23 PM »
well said that woman.


unfortunately, it will be the same fans  'customers'* who'll be lauding kenny and slapping themsleves on the back if kenny goes on to win a second trophy this season.
If he doesn't, they'll all bitch and moan, how he isn't this and isn't that.

Same old same old.


*I use the word customers, because quite frankly, they're not fans, or supporters, and should only be treated as the passing 'customers' that they are.




When your team is winning, and playing well, you support them.

When your team is playing badly and losing, you support them twice as much. -- WHY?  -- Because that's when they need you the most.
  :wave

There endeth the lesson.
« Last Edit: April 8, 2012, 05:14:57 PM by Big Red Richie »

Offline echis

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #5 on: April 8, 2012, 05:14:27 PM »
Great post, it needed saying.

Offline BCCC

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #6 on: April 8, 2012, 05:14:28 PM »
Great post with a beautiful message and I agree with you but

Not a great post BUT. Just a great post.
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Offline gkmacca

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #7 on: April 8, 2012, 05:15:38 PM »
It's an internet thing: blokes on their own, creating a controversial persona for themselves that's confirmed every time they spark outrage. They couldn't really give a damn about football or LFC, it's all about enhancing their own deluded self-image.

Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #8 on: April 8, 2012, 05:16:38 PM »
And you're trying to hold back the tide. That's not a dig. Believe me, I understand the sentiment. I've tried saying pretty much the same thing for the last three years, but I don't know why I bother as there's no stopping it.

It's just the way it is now. not pissing on your post. I agree with you... on top of all that, getting on the team/individual players backs only makes matters worse. But there's the rub... the majority at the games, aren't getting on their backs. Websites, forums, phone ins, etc, you're darn tooting most of them are doing it wrong. But I don't think our players, or management take any notice of these or any other boards.
The problem with all the negativity on the web, others pick up on it, meaning mainly the media. And, as we seen, that gave Purslow the excuse he needed to oust Rafa. That's the only real thing to fear, the dicontent spreading to a point where FSG felt they had to act.
It's not even really about Kenny Dalglish. It's about the club as a whole and it's identity. But that's why I'm desperate to see Kenny get it right. If he doesn't, we will probably become Chelsea without the dosh.

I started going in the boys pen in the 64/65 season. Soon my generation took over the kop. The old fellas we pushed out into the stands didn't like us or how we supported the team. It happens in every walk of life, the young take over and do it they're own way. The old normally slate it and talk of the good old days. But in this case, well, I think there is a case... this new way of moaning is shite and does no good whatsoever. In fact, it only adds to the problem. But there's no putting the Genie back in the bottle now. It's how it is.
The only thing I can do is stop bothering me arse saying it. And I wouldn't be, if wasn't stuck in here with fuck all else to do. Good luck with it, though. It might just wake a few up, but don't hold yer breath.
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Offline Shanks1965

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #9 on: April 8, 2012, 05:17:50 PM »
Once again a great post... but not a good title for the thread. Change the "You're" to "We're" and you're on to a winner ;)
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Offline WarringtonRed

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #10 on: April 8, 2012, 05:17:55 PM »
Simple answer is - dont hound out your best manager for god knows how long for a useless old twat because he might "steady the ship" even though it is not a boat , ship or yacht it is a football team.

Anyone who wanted Hodgson in as manager can fuck off.

Offline -HH-

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #11 on: April 8, 2012, 05:18:05 PM »
Rightly put in its own thread.

No doubt it'll get the backs up of some of the very people its aimed at - but I ask those people to look in the mirror first. Rhi (who is a good, matchgoing red well-versed in this club's traditions) admits to some of this behaviour herself and says enough is enough. One thing to make mistakes, another to admit them and resolve to change them. I'll do the same. I've been very vocal about some people's disrespect of Kenny but have fallen into that trap myself a few times this season.

It seems like for a lot of people, the Hodgson situation has changed what is acceptable when supporting this football club. It hasn't. There were mitigating circumstances then, but it's up to us to preserve what the club stands for. As always, we are focussed on supporting our manager. Not just Rafa, whoever is in charge, and never moreso than when the person in charge has done for us what Kenny has done.
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #12 on: April 8, 2012, 05:23:05 PM »
I agree with every word you say Rhi however do we really need another 'support the team/kenny/club thread? Its a cracking post, (im sure its already been posted twice elsewhere), but this thread is just going to go exactly the same way as the other 100 threads that have been created on the same thing over the past month.


Offline MOZ

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #13 on: April 8, 2012, 05:23:18 PM »
Well said that Lady.

Things do need sorting on the pitch and lets trust Kenny to get it right, he has earnt the right to some fucking patience.

Meanwhile lets sort ourselves out and stop acting like spoilt idiots.

Enjoy Wembley Rhi, I know I will.


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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #14 on: April 8, 2012, 05:24:32 PM »
Not a great post BUT. Just a great post.

To be fair he goes on to say:

...for me personally the identity of our club has always been more important than the trophies. It's true that we exist to win trophies but the identity of the club is the thing I relate to. It's the thing that makes me support the club through the storms. I felt like we were close to losing it under H&G and Hodgson and I dread to think what would happen if Kenny got the sack. We the supporters are the custodians of the club and it's values. We should be able to do better than we are now.
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Offline Shanks1965

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #15 on: April 8, 2012, 05:27:24 PM »
Well said that Lady.

Things do need sorting on the pitch and lets trust Kenny to get it right, he has earnt the right to some fucking patience.

Meanwhile lets sort ourselves out and stop acting like spoilt idiots.

Enjoy Wembley Rhi, I know I will.
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #16 on: April 8, 2012, 05:36:00 PM »
And you're trying to hold back the tide. That's not a dig. Believe me, I understand the sentiment. I've tried saying pretty much the same thing for the last three years, but I don't know why I bother as there's no stopping it.

It's just the way it is now. not pissing on your post. I agree with you... on top of all that, getting on the team/individual players backs only makes matters worse. But there's the rub... the majority at the games, aren't getting on their backs. Websites, forums, phone ins, etc, you're darn tooting most of them are doing it wrong. But I don't think our players, or management take any notice of these or any other boards.
The problem with all the negativity on the web, others pick up on it, meaning mainly the media. And, as we seen, that gave Purslow the excuse he needed to oust Rafa. That's the only real thing to fear, the dicontent spreading to a point where FSG felt they had to act.
It's not even really about Kenny Dalglish. It's about the club as a whole and it's identity. But that's why I'm desperate to see Kenny get it right. If he doesn't, we will probably become Chelsea without the dosh.

I started going in the boys pen in the 64/65 season. Soon my generation took over the kop. The old fellas we pushed out into the stands didn't like us or how we supported the team. It happens in every walk of life, the young take over and do it they're own way. The old normally slate it and talk of the good old days. But in this case, well, I think there is a case... this new way of moaning is shite and does no good whatsoever. In fact, it only adds to the problem. But there's no putting the Genie back in the bottle now. It's how it is.
The only thing I can do is stop bothering me arse saying it. And I wouldn't be, if wasn't stuck in here with fuck all else to do. Good luck with it, though. It might just wake a few up, but don't hold yer breath.

Moaning is not a new thing mate, its been around our fanbase for decades. I've heard some right moaning bastards over the years slating the players/managers/system/tactics etc when in the KOP. I dont buy into this 'new moaning generation' because there are hundreds of 'fans' in the stand every week aged 40+ who constantly whinge about everything, no matter if we're winning or not. 

Its very hard to say, but i'd be very confident that if RAWK or any other forums were around in the 70's or 80's, we'd have seen the same shite on there as we do on here every week.



Offline alan82

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #17 on: April 8, 2012, 05:39:31 PM »
well said that woman.


unfortunately, it will be the same fans  'customers'* who'll be lauding kenny and slapping themsleves on the back if kenny goes on to win a second trophy this season.
If he doesn't, they'll all bitch and moan, how he isn't this and isn't that.

Same old same old.


*I use the word customers, because quite frankly, they're not fans, or supporters, and should only be treated as the passing 'customers' that they are.




When your team is winning, and playing well, you support them.

When your team is playing badly and losing, you support them twice as much. -- WHY?  -- Because that's when they need you the most.
  :wave

There endeth the lesson.

Well said Ritch
“I just wanted to jump into the stand and start celebrating with those wonderful fans [on reaching the Champions League final]” Steven Gerrard

Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #18 on: April 8, 2012, 05:40:55 PM »
Moaning is not a new thing mate, its been around our fanbase for decades. I've heard some right moaning bastards over the years slating the players/managers/system/tactics etc when in the KOP. I dont buy into this 'new moaning generation' because there are hundreds of 'fans' in the stand every week aged 40+ who constantly whinge about everything, no matter if we're winning or not. 

Its very hard to say, but i'd be very confident that if RAWK or any other forums were around in the 70's or 80's, we'd have seen the same shite on there as we do on here every week.



You have a point, but I honestly can't remember booing like at the West Ham game when it put us back on top of the table. I have never seen a player scapegoated and treated like Lucas was. And for all the moaning in the stands and in the pubs after the games, I can't remember when it gave the board chance to get shut of our most succesful manager in donkies.
But, yep. Other than that, you're probably right.
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Offline alan82

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #19 on: April 8, 2012, 05:42:06 PM »
Couldn't agree more.

We all have to stick together through the good and the bad and stay positive.

Fuck the negative people and lets keep supporting the team no matter what.
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Offline Titi Camara

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #20 on: April 8, 2012, 05:45:15 PM »
The singling out of poorly performing players or players lacking a bit of confidence has been around for donkies years! D Matteo was one the first I really remember getting it in the neck consistently from the fans! The treatment he got was appaulling! If I've got my facts right he went onto captain Leeds! Hardly the mark of a shite player...but at the time he was very raw and made a few mistakes for us, but the fans didn't have the patience nor did they actually support him whilst on the pitch! Whilst I'm sure he wasn't the first to be treated like this, it's the first player to stick out in my days to be treated like this...and it's been a growing problem ever since and one that has never really been addressed! It's plain to anyone that watches football that this counter productive and helps no one. Not the players, not the club, not the manager and certainly not the fans!

Put simply though it's the money men that have spolit it for everyone! Kids have now been brought up wacthing other clubs spend big and get themselves back to the top in relatively quick time. And so they don't just want it at their club...they bloody well expect it too!

Only a dramatic change in fortunes, either way, will change the current mindset and the fanbase!
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Offline tommy LFC

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #21 on: April 8, 2012, 05:46:27 PM »
Excellent post.

Food for thought.
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Offline -HH-

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #22 on: April 8, 2012, 05:47:38 PM »
Excellent post.

Food for thought.

Good lad.
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I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

Offline Bigly Red Richie

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #23 on: April 8, 2012, 05:48:05 PM »
I can't remember when it gave the board chance to get shut of our most succesful manager in donkies.
But, yep. Other than that, you're probably right.
To be fair though Fats. They were never really 'the board', but nothing more than a glorified debt collection agency, waiting their time to call in the debt.

Like the fellas in black who turn up on your doorstep, and recover goods to 'X' amount, before taking your house keys off you, and repossessing your house, whilst throwing the rest of your possessions on the lawn.

But anyway. I digress.

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Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #24 on: April 8, 2012, 05:51:16 PM »
Excellent and couldn't agree more. I actually thought yesterday despite the draw the lads put their balls on the line to try and get the 3 points and we can start there and build again .

I find myself agreeing with almost every part of your post even the bits where you say you had to accept you had demonstrated some of the traits yourself .

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Offline Arcadian

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #25 on: April 8, 2012, 05:53:54 PM »
And you're trying to hold back the tide. That's not a dig. Believe me, I understand the sentiment. I've tried saying pretty much the same thing for the last three years, but I don't know why I bother as there's no stopping it.

It's just the way it is now. not pissing on your post. I agree with you... on top of all that, getting on the team/individual players backs only makes matters worse. But there's the rub... the majority at the games, aren't getting on their backs. Websites, forums, phone ins, etc, you're darn tooting most of them are doing it wrong. But I don't think our players, or management take any notice of these or any other boards.
The problem with all the negativity on the web, others pick up on it, meaning mainly the media. And, as we seen, that gave Purslow the excuse he needed to oust Rafa. That's the only real thing to fear, the dicontent spreading to a point where FSG felt they had to act.
It's not even really about Kenny Dalglish. It's about the club as a whole and it's identity. But that's why I'm desperate to see Kenny get it right. If he doesn't, we will probably become Chelsea without the dosh.

I started going in the boys pen in the 64/65 season. Soon my generation took over the kop. The old fellas we pushed out into the stands didn't like us or how we supported the team. It happens in every walk of life, the young take over and do it they're own way. The old normally slate it and talk of the good old days. But in this case, well, I think there is a case... this new way of moaning is shite and does no good whatsoever. In fact, it only adds to the problem. But there's no putting the Genie back in the bottle now. It's how it is.
The only thing I can do is stop bothering me arse saying it. And I wouldn't be, if wasn't stuck in here with fuck all else to do. Good luck with it, though. It might just wake a few up, but don't hold yer breath.

Rose tinted specs for a sec... BUT...

Education is the answer. Just cause the tide's changed doesn't mean it can't go out again. For the most part people learn what is and isn't acceptable; racism for example, based on what the community has deemed to be correct/appropriate behaviour. To an extent racism is being 'educated' out of society.

If people like yourself start to give up Fats then there'll be fewer and fewer voices of reason to educate the new supporters. It's up to us as a collective to teach others what it means to support LFC. As far as I'm concerned, with reference to the current trend of slagging off our own, it's acceptable to question tactics, players, etc with RESPECT... A quality which has seemingly fallen out of fashion of late.

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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #26 on: April 8, 2012, 06:00:49 PM »
To be fair though Fats. They were never really 'the board', but nothing more than a glorified debt collection agency, waiting their time to call in the debt.

Like the fellas in black who turn up on your doorstep, and recover goods to 'X' amount, before taking your house keys off you, and repossessing your house, whilst throwing the rest of your possessions on the lawn.

But anyway. I digress.
The point is though mate... despite there always being moaners at the game and in the pubs afterwards they didn't affect decisions inside the club. It's a different day and age now, with platforms like these threads. I happened to turn Talk Shite on this morning. I done it on purpose. For some mad reason, I fancied listening to some of the vitriol I knew would be getting aimed at Kenny and the majority of the players. As I turned it on, it just happened to be "Mickey Quinn's Sack Race."
Don't know if you've ever heard it. I wouldn't recommend it. It uses the aul Alan Fluff Freeman music, from when they used to read out the pop charts on a Sunday. Fat Arse Quinn announces the managers in the "top five spots" in an old Radio 1 dee-jay fashion. Apparently, "King Kenny," is top of the charts this week. So, to compare the moaning from the old days to this now, well, there really is no comparrison. I can't for the life of me remember any of our fans joining the opposition in gleefully singing "Sacked in the morning," towards our own manager. But then I suppose that's alright because some aul moaning bastards used to shout at Ian Callaghan (Something I remember happening quite often as Cally went on to rack up the most ever appearances in our shirt).
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Offline walshys_mullet

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #27 on: April 8, 2012, 06:03:00 PM »
We've become lazy fans. A terrible symptom of modern society.
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Offline Red Genius

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #28 on: April 8, 2012, 06:05:23 PM »
And you're trying to hold back the tide. That's not a dig. Believe me, I understand the sentiment. I've tried saying pretty much the same thing for the last three years, but I don't know why I bother as there's no stopping it.

It's just the way it is now. not pissing on your post. I agree with you... on top of all that, getting on the team/individual players backs only makes matters worse. But there's the rub... the majority at the games, aren't getting on their backs. Websites, forums, phone ins, etc, you're darn tooting most of them are doing it wrong. But I don't think our players, or management take any notice of these or any other boards.
The problem with all the negativity on the web, others pick up on it, meaning mainly the media. And, as we seen, that gave Purslow the excuse he needed to oust Rafa. That's the only real thing to fear, the dicontent spreading to a point where FSG felt they had to act.
It's not even really about Kenny Dalglish. It's about the club as a whole and it's identity. But that's why I'm desperate to see Kenny get it right. If he doesn't, we will probably become Chelsea without the dosh.

I started going in the boys pen in the 64/65 season. Soon my generation took over the kop. The old fellas we pushed out into the stands didn't like us or how we supported the team. It happens in every walk of life, the young take over and do it they're own way. The old normally slate it and talk of the good old days. But in this case, well, I think there is a case... this new way of moaning is shite and does no good whatsoever. In fact, it only adds to the problem. But there's no putting the Genie back in the bottle now. It's how it is.
The only thing I can do is stop bothering me arse saying it. And I wouldn't be, if wasn't stuck in here with fuck all else to do. Good luck with it, though. It might just wake a few up, but don't hold yer breath.

It may be an uphill slog repeating yourself time after time, but then if you don't, who will?

Our community and club once prided itself on values it is the cornerstone for many who fell in love with our club, we should never admit defeat in presenting those values and provide a voice to other fans who may have lost their way somewhat. Togetherness is a formidable strength, one which has held us well for a long time.

Some of our support need to get back to the fundamentals, our club isn't just about winning trophies it's enriched in a mantra of the community spirit, so when the chips are down it's even more important to stand by each other. It's this basic idea which i thought every Liverpool supporter understood, so we should never shy from being the voice who bangs that drum loudest.
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Offline Red Ol

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #29 on: April 8, 2012, 06:06:33 PM »
Good post.
Sick of all the viscous moaners.
Support your club. It's simple

Offline Andy @ Allerton

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #30 on: April 8, 2012, 06:07:48 PM »
Good post.
Sick of all the viscous moaners.
Support your club. It's simple


"viscous" like it :D
Brexit. As stupid as you can imagine.

The poor voting to make themselves worse off and their masters richer.

Offline Arcadian

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #31 on: April 8, 2012, 06:08:00 PM »
It may be an uphill slog repeating yourself time after time, but then if you don't, who will?

Our community and club once prided itself on values it is the cornerstone for many who fell in love with our club, we should never admit defeat in presenting those values and provide a voice to other fans who may have lost their way somewhat. Togetherness is a formidable strength, one which has held us well for a long time.

Some of our support need to get back to the fundamentals, our club isn't just about winning trophies it's enriched in a mantra of the community spirit, so when the chips are down it's even more important to stand by each other. It's this basic idea which i thought every Liverpool supporter understood, so we should never shy from being the voice who bangs that drum loudest.

Jinx  :D

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Offline EdEdP

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #32 on: April 8, 2012, 06:08:42 PM »
I agree with most of Rhi's words. Some support is definitely more disappointing than ever at the moment at LFC, but I guess we have to ask ourselves why that is, because there will be answers to this problem - it is not a random phenomenon, it's the consequence of certain circumstances, some startling evident and others more underlying and complex and nothing to do with what is happening on the pitch. We're seeing more and more debates about these kind of issues, and at least we're discussing them now.

I think so much conflict on this forum and between fans in general is because so often we inevitably flee to extremes at the first hint of tension or crisis, which is perhaps a human trait. Various threads have been mentioning this conclusion of late, such as Sian's thread on old vs new, and it's refreshing to see it this kind of material on RAWK. In the face of challenge or problems, we stick to our guns and defend the corners which we are most comfortable with, relate to and value the most, whether this is the correct thing to do or not. We'll see endless confrontation between old fans and new fans, those from Liverpool and those from Abroad, those who know Liverpool Football Club inside-out and those who have a lot to learn (and should *not* be criticised simply for lacking knowledge), but regardless of all of this, each corner we defend, we are all Liverpool fans. We chose this club, and it is ours. However, as Rhi points out, that means we must respect the position we have adopted. This does not mean that we cannot or are not allowed to criticize aspects on and off the field. Nothing, *nothing*, should be allowed to run without criticism - no manager, no player, no owner and no fan - because criticism, *constructive* criticism, is healthy. Nevertheless, as fans we do have the power and privilege to hold a great influence over how the club is managed and how the players perform and, carefully avoiding a certain immortal Spiderman motto, this does mean we have a responsibility with our words and actions, out of respect to everything that makes this club what it is. So before you do offer your own criticism, ask yourself whether what you're really bringing to the table is what this club needs to hear, and if what you're saying is being said out of respect for the club you say you love.

Football IS changing, and this is causing ever more tension between fans within our own club let alone with rival support bases. But we have to remember why we are fans of this club, and we have to respect it and if you are forgetting what makes this club so special, it might be worth watching a video of You'll Never Walk Alone before a Champion's League match on youtube, listen to those lyrics and hear us do what we do best. Then, sifting through the swamp of shite responses you'll find on there, read some of those rare insightful replies from fans of other clubs, from all over the world, who respect and congratulate this club and it's fans for the atmosphere that has been built up at Liverpool Football Club. Then remember that you form a part of that and you have a responsibility to maintain what so many have built and given to this club across decades. Football may be changing, but this is a club where fans have ousted crippling owners only just over a year ago, where the sheer passion and voice of the fans has left rival teams and fans silenced, in awe, as we have stormed our way to European finals and Leagues as little as five years ago.

So if you've forgotten that, whatever type of fan you are or wherever you are, start remembering how to be a Liverpool Fan.
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Offline tommy LFC

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #33 on: April 8, 2012, 06:10:59 PM »
Christ Rhi, after reading that I'm seriously regretting a lot of shite I've spouted in the last few weeks. Thank God we have a game again so soon
Let us never forget Rafael Benitez and what he did for us. A fighter full of guts and passion. A gentleman full of class and dignity. A football manager full of intelligence and pure genius. A Legend.
Adios Rafa, buena suerte.

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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #34 on: April 8, 2012, 06:12:11 PM »
Rose tinted specs for a sec... BUT...
Nothing's beyond debate, mate. This is a forum to talk about all things LFC. That doesn't mean it should only be the good, or anything is out of bounds. The problem with some of it is a lot of people seem to think they actually know better than the current manager and his coaching staff. In fact, I've seen quite a few posts stating they do.
It's laughable really, and, like I said, the only worry is when the discontent spreads enough to be turned into action.
You'd have thought we'd have learnt our lesson during the Rafa/Hodgson debacle, but we haven't. We run into a bit of adversity, loads of us start calling for the manager's head. That's a symptom of the day and age we live in. And I really don't give a fuck about what anyone says about some aul fellas moaning in the paddock back in the 70's. This is how it is now.... and we won't it all now, if not yesterday.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

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Offline stevedo

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #35 on: April 8, 2012, 06:16:18 PM »

Offline gandalf50

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #36 on: April 8, 2012, 06:16:19 PM »
You have a point, but I honestly can't remember booing like at the West Ham game when it put us back on top of the table. I have never seen a player scapegoated and treated like Lucas was. And for all the moaning in the stands and in the pubs after the games, I can't remember when it gave the board chance to get shut of our most succesful manager in donkies.
But, yep. Other than that, you're probably right.
Yea and there weren`t too many white knights riding to the team or managers defense in here on those occasions.
There really isn't.  I think a lot of us, even our own have started doubting it. It's time to rise up. And take what is rightfully ours. It's a big mountain, but what is the point in achieving something, which everyone can?

Fate has given us a mountain too big. We have to rise. We have to believe.

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Offline macca888

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #37 on: April 8, 2012, 06:16:29 PM »
Lovely post Rhi. One thing I won't apologise for is not supporting that owl faced twat. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, and I felt bad that being that way was going against every principle that I grew up with. But I just couldn't do it, regardless of whether he was appointed by a bunch of spineless media bandwagonning gobshites. He was the antithesis of The Liverpool Way I knew, loved and grew up with.

Cheesey as this might sound, Mrs Macca's friend bought her a fridge magnet years ago, and the words on the magnet and the words of your post just resonated with me.

"A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words."

And there are far too many people at this moment who refuse to sing them even though they pretend to know them. True friends stick with you and help you through the trials and tribulations of life. Fickle ones run like fuck when the going gets tough. It's alright being one of the "Well it's just reality and constructive criticism" brigade. Yes, there's a time and place to dissect where the problems lie but the downright disrespect shown towards Kenny and the club in general has just bewildered me. I read before that 56% of fans want Kenny sacked now. I read someone on the post match thread say he didn't care about protecting Kenny's dignity. I've read people say that Kenny's past has got fuck all to do with the present and should be sacked now. Just think about that for a minute. The complete disrespect shown to someone who carried the weight of our club, our supporters and our city through the two darkest days in our history, and then hoisted us on his shoulders out of arguably our third darkest day just 18 months ago. A man who embodies our club like no other. And their patience runs out after two months of dire results.

I said before Kenny took over that I was worried that the Liverpool Way was on a life support machine, and that if exactly what is happening now did happen, it might just switch it off altogether. Well currently we've only got a few of the Florence Nightingales and an awful lot of the Harold Shipmans in our fan base. And while they might have the pillow over my face and the morphine injection pressed up to my skin, I'll be fucked if I'll go without kicking and screaming. Superfan and rose tinted wearer people like me get accused of. I'll happily take those insults rather than betray my principles and turn into just another fan.
 
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Offline Snail

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #38 on: April 8, 2012, 06:16:36 PM »
Fantastic post Rhi, and I hold my hands up and admit that I've been guilty of some of the stuff you refer to.

Offline Red Genius

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Re: Support - You're Doing it Wrong
« Reply #39 on: April 8, 2012, 06:18:47 PM »
Nothing's beyond debate, mate. This is a forum to talk about all things LFC. That doesn't mean it should only be the good, or anything is out of bounds. The problem with some of it is a lot of people seem to think they actually know better than the current manager and his coaching staff. In fact, I've seen quite a few posts stating they do.
It's laughable really, and, like I said, the only worry is when the discontent spreads enough to be turned into action.
You'd have thought we'd have learnt our lesson during the Rafa/Hodgson debacle, but we haven't. We run into a bit of adversity, loads of us start calling for the manager's head. That's a symptom of the day and age we live in. And I really don't give a fuck about what anyone says about some aul fellas moaning in the paddock back in the 70's. This is how it is now.... and we won't it all now, if not yesterday.

I think we've all gone a little soft, those comments need to be met with the same respect they intend - those supporters need to be told to wind their neck in, and if they feel they can do a better job - to send their CV to the club and until a time when they're manager they should button it and get on doing their existing job, being a supporter - to support, as the players - play and our managers - manages.

It's absurd logic to believe undermining our management in difficult times just to make a point, it's like stamping on someone's head when they're on the floor, it's a shit house thing to do. You stand by your own.
"I have been privileged and lucky to wear the legendary red shirt. No one can take it away from me. YNWA, I don't have to walk alone because Liverpool FC will always be in my heart."

The Legend - Sami Hyypia