Topic: Carroll - A sensible discussion.

[Mohammad Shahrul]

mirrorfootball.co.uk: "Close to tears Carroll aims F-word parting shot at Kenny"
   
Andy Carroll let rip with a volley of abuse at boss Kenny Dalglish as Liverpool went into ­meltdown.
The £35million striker’s foul-mouthed tirade came as he was subbed 11 minutes from the end of
another embarrassing defeat.
 
Carroll, who had earlier been booked for diving and was mocked by Toon fans throughout, made no
attempt to hide his feelings before marching down the tunnel. Carroll stormed off the pitch red-faced
and close to tears, growling: "F**k**g joke this, f**k**g shit, f**k off," towards the dug out.
 
Carroll, who was booked for diving in the penalty area, also clashed with Pardew on the touchline, telling
his former boss: "It wasn't a dive you f**k**g c**t!!"

Source: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-Andy-Carroll-aims-f-word-parting-shot-at-Kenny-Dalglish-article885811.html
 
 
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[Didi_ram]

The aim should now be to fool some lower club into paying 10-15m for him.

[subroc]

Now I don't really care about his attitude, what he did when he came off the field today vs Newcastle, his dive, that he left Anfield early after the Swansea game to go to watch a firework display in Newcastle (according to Dave Usher), what his ex agent said about him etc.

Do you have a link to where Usher said that?

[Z e u s]

Do you have a link to where Usher said that?

It was on TLW in his private forum section.

I am not a member there anymore.

[subroc]

Yes we have, but because of our league position, some people have forgotten that we have actually played some very good football at times this season, just not winning football.

I would argue that what you saw was some passing but little movement, or some push and run football. A big part of why we have misfired this season is because we have ceased to pass and move like we did end of last season, particularly when we try to accommodate Carroll. 

That combined with the lack of pressing means that we try to defend in depth and collapse into our own half as a means of defence. When we attack, we employ push and run football or we play horizontal passes from the centre with relatively static movement.

People keep saying that it is the players' fault etc and indeed it is partly their fault, but it was Dalglish and Clarke who oversaw these tactical changes and continue to fail to bring back our true style of play.

[subroc]

It was on TLW in his private forum section.

I am not a member there anymore.

We just lost to newcastle, partly due to his ineffective performance. Surely he has the common sense to realise how it would look like if he prefers to return to Newcastle to enjoy a night out there after the game where we lost to them.

[Didi_ram]

mirrorfootball.co.uk: "Close to tears Carroll aims F-word parting shot at Kenny"
   
Andy Carroll let rip with a volley of abuse at boss Kenny Dalglish as Liverpool went into ­meltdown.
The £35million striker’s foul-mouthed tirade came as he was subbed 11 minutes from the end of
another embarrassing defeat.
 
Carroll, who had earlier been booked for diving and was mocked by Toon fans throughout, made no
attempt to hide his feelings before marching down the tunnel. Carroll stormed off the pitch red-faced
and close to tears, growling: "F**k**g joke this, f**k**g shit, f**k off," towards the dug out.
 
Carroll, who was booked for diving in the penalty area, also clashed with Pardew on the touchline, telling
his former boss: "It wasn't a dive you f**k**g c**t!!"

Source: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-Andy-Carroll-aims-f-word-parting-shot-at-Kenny-Dalglish-article885811.html
 
 
.

Oh my,did he say all that?
I hope he doesnt play for us again then.

[Melbred]

Carroll's not going anywhere, unless we're willing to make a £30m loss on him.

Even then, I can't see there being any clubs who would want him, or any who could afford his wages.

Unfortunately we're probably stuck with another striker who doesn't want to be here.

[jooneyisdagod]

mirrorfootball.co.uk: "Close to tears Carroll aims F-word parting shot at Kenny"
 

Maybe he didn't aim it at anyone and was just ranting in frustration.  It also says he was close to tears which suggests that for all the nonsense, maybe being the no.9 for this club means something to him and that he is desperate to succeed ?

[Melbred]

Maybe he didn't aim it at anyone and was just ranting in frustration.  It also says he was close to tears which suggests that for all the nonsense, maybe being the no.9 for this club means something to him and that he is desperate to succeed ?

Or that he was being hounded by 40,000 thousand of his "own" and realises he's fucked up big time.

[subroc]

Or that he was being hounded by 40,000 thousand of his "own" and realises he's fucked up big time.

More likely this, since he has not had such a reaction before as far as reports go.

[liverpoolfan1]

I still cannot even begin to comprehend how we ever decided to pay 35m for him? 

Not only was he no where near the quality of a 35m forward but he was injured at the time, had only 1/2 a season of PL experience under his belt and didn't really fit into our system. Also what his signing meant was that we had to effectively alter our style of play and I'm in no doubt that the signings of Downing and Hendo were largely influenced by him (i.e. bring in players who can put in a good cross).

Make me the director of football. I can guarantee I can pick out better bargains than him and I'll do the job for free! 

[skooma]

I'd like to see him in the MLS. He'll be in good company with the players here, as they possess similar finishing and movement on and off the ball.

Seriously though, I would go to a game just for him. Not everyday you see a Liverpool player, even if it Carroll. The lower pressure atmosphere would do him good and he might actually score a few.

[woof]

Can't lay all the blame on him. Liverpool management pursued him. Newcastle upped the ante and sold him for £35m. It's a joke. And a cruel one for Andy who is young, unproven and has to bear a huge price tag that comes with expectations. Now we're seeing him crumble. It's not all his fault. Perhaps he could be mentored better and present a better attitude on the pitch. I bet you statistically, he's fallen more times on his arse than scoring goals.

Kenny, Comolli & Co will have to make some tough decisions in the summer. Do we persist with Carroll (who doesn't seem to fit into the way we play) or bite the bullet and lose quite a bit of dosh

[jooneyisdagod]

Or that he was being hounded by 40,000 thousand of his "own" and realises he's fucked up big time.

Can you expand on that a bit more so I can reply to it.  Don't want to assume what you meant by that last bit. 

[Melbred]

Can you expand on that a bit more so I can reply to it.  Don't want to assume what you meant by that last bit.

Meaning that he never should have left Newcastle. It was a tough decision, and the Geordies may have been pushing the sale, but in the end it was his decision.

He's pretty much got no where to go now, because they wouldn't have him back. For a young lad, that's probably heartbreaking.

In a way I feel sorry for him, as it's not his fault he isn't good enough for us. It was managements fault for thinking that he was, and paying that sort of money for an injured striker who would miss the first couple of months.

[subroc]

Meaning that he never should have left Newcastle. It was a tough decision, and the Geordies may have been pushing the sale, but in the end it was his decision.

He's pretty much got no where to go now, because they wouldn't have him back. For a young lad, that's probably heartbreaking.

He was probably wanting to show his former fans that he was better than their chants of him, an dbeing substituted in front of their jeering without managing to score a goal was probably humiliating to him.

What he should have been more upset at was letting the club and us down instead of caring about what he looked like to newcastle fans. From the reports of how he returns to Newcastle so regularly etc, I don't think he has actually mentally stopped being a Newcastle player yet.

[jooneyisdagod]

Meaning that he never should have left Newcastle. It was a tough decision, and the Geordies may have been pushing the sale, but in the end it was his decision.

He's pretty much got no where to go now, because they wouldn't have him back. For a young lad, that's probably heartbreaking.

Could be the reason.  But it could also be that he was desperate to show them given he has already played against Newcastle at least once before and was roundly jeered by the travelling support from Newcastle then so such a reception was completely expected.  Maybe he wanted to silence them given all the sniping he has had to endure over the last 18 months where you constantly hear stuff about him coming from the Newcastle side  in particular, that toxic interview with the ex-CEO or something who said he was worth ''fuckall''.  There could be a lot of things and its conjecture on either side but until we know what it is and why he said what he did I reckon we should give him a break.  He is our no.9 after all. 

[Red_Skippy]

It might be best to ship him off for 10-15 in the summer and take it on the chin to move forward. 

[fefs]

He was probably wanting to show his former fans that he was better than their chants of him, an dbeing substituted in front of their jeering without managing to score a goal was probably humiliating to him.

What he should have been more upset at was letting the club and us down instead of caring about what he looked like to newcastle fans. From the reports of how he returns to Newcastle so regularly etc, I don't think he has actually mentally stopped being a Newcastle player yet.

If anything maybe getting booed relentlessly yesterday will help to sever that bond.
He started really brightly yesterday I thought.
Getting subbed off however was serving him up on a plate to the Newcastle fans.
Heres hoping Kenny can channel his anger and light a fire under his arse ......

[Melbred]

It might be best to ship him off for 10-15 in the summer and take it on the chin to move forward.

Because it's going to be that easy trying to find willing buyers at that price..

[ziggyy]

Agree that it's not his fault. He had no role in the negotiations and did not decide the silly price we paid for him.

Whoever made that decision is the one who was the fool(s).  It's like signing an average Aston Villa winger(?) for 20mil, a young unproven midfielder for 15-20mi, letting go of 2 internationals when there's no real cover in place....

In the classic Mr T's voice... Fool....

[jckliew]

Bit embarassing to see this posted in manya Liverpool forums   

[Alonso_The_Assassin]

Maybe he didn't aim it at anyone and was just ranting in frustration.  It also says he was close to tears which suggests that for all the nonsense, maybe being the no.9 for this club means something to him and that he is desperate to succeed ?

I'd agree. Wish some more of our players would be close to tears in disappointment, as apposed to strolling around the pitch trying to look busy ala Frank Lampard.

[jooneyisdagod]

Bit embarassing to see this posted in manya Liverpool forums   

That's not a dive.  That is just an utterly embarrassing lack of balance.

[jckliew]

That's not a dive.  That is just an utterly embarrassing lack of balance.

i agree...he just lost his balance

[libby_lfc]

To be honest though, every time I see it I'm really not sure if it was a dive or if he tripped, like he's been known to do. I just can't believe he'd be that stupid to dive at that point. Maybe he is, who knows. But until he stops being a Liverpool player, I'll support him and give him benefit of the doubt...

[Fordy]

Sensibe dicussion - The lad has to leave.

He bottled that golden chance to put his 1-0 up yesterday and half of thinks he didn't want to score against his old team.

Papers this morning say he abused Kenny.

Meant to have stormed home(Newcastle - home).

Seriously nothing to discuss here apart for we need to sell and take a massive hit on this lad.

Not a Liverpool player and never will be.

[SalifSaysShutIt]

That's not a dive.  That is just an utterly embarrassing lack of balance.

Uh, no. That, sadly, is a dive.

[Redman0151]

mirrorfootball.co.uk: "Close to tears Carroll aims F-word parting shot at Kenny"
   
Andy Carroll let rip with a volley of abuse at boss Kenny Dalglish as Liverpool went into ­meltdown.
The £35million striker’s foul-mouthed tirade came as he was subbed 11 minutes from the end of
another embarrassing defeat.
 
Carroll, who had earlier been booked for diving and was mocked by Toon fans throughout, made no
attempt to hide his feelings before marching down the tunnel. Carroll stormed off the pitch red-faced
and close to tears, growling: "F**k**g joke this, f**k**g shit, f**k off," towards the dug out.
 
Carroll, who was booked for diving in the penalty area, also clashed with Pardew on the touchline, telling
his former boss: "It wasn't a dive you f**k**g c**t!!"

Source: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-Andy-Carroll-aims-f-word-parting-shot-at-Kenny-Dalglish-article885811.html
 
 
.

I can't blame him for this at all, if anything it shows he has the passion and wants to make things better.

He'd just had a rough game against his home club, booed by the people he loved and didn't really want to leave and lost the game getting jeered off, with the adrenaline flowing I have no issue with that being said. The words he said, it doesn't exactly seem like it was directed at Dalglish, just said in general anger and ranting as he went off.

[Melbred]

His touch was heavy, he wasn't going to get there with his right foot, defender was going to close it down. Had a brain fart moment, and went down.

It was a dive.

[jooneyisdagod]

i agree...he just lost his balance

And he got booked for it.  No wonder he was near tears.  I would be in tears if that happened to me in front of 40,000 people I desperately wanted to get one over. 

[Z e u s]

In the classic Mr T's voice... Fool....

You pity the foal? 

That is a joke before everyone goes crazy, let's not lose our sense of humour through out all this.

Seriously it must be awful getting abuse like that off 40,000 people, it would be hard for anyone to take.

[Fordy]

I can't blame him for this at all, if anything it shows he has the passion and wants to make things better.

He'd just had a rough game against his home club, booed by the people he loved and didn't really want to leave and lost the game getting jeered off, with the adrenaline flowing I have no issue with that being said. The words he said, it doesn't exactly seem like it was directed at Dalglish, just said in general anger and ranting as he went off.

You being serious?

Showing passion? What with a drive instead of putting his 1-0 up?

No need to swear at the manager though.

Can't believe you're making excuses for him.

[Redman0151]

You being serious?

Showing passion? What with a drive instead of putting his 1-0 up?

No need to swear at the manager though.

Can't believe you're making excuses for him.

I'm not trying to make excuses for him, i'm making the point that it's a total natural reaction to be incredibly upset and angry in the position he was in.

If it was aimed at Dalglish you're right that is unacceptable but I have no doubt he'll apologise to Dalglish once the adrenaline and emotions had died down

[Fordy]

I'm not trying to make excuses for him, i'm making the point that it's a total natural reaction to be incredibly upset and angry in the position he was in.

If it was aimed at Dalglish you're right that is unacceptable but I have no doubt he'll apologise to Dalglish once the adrenaline and emotions had died down

It's not a natural reaction though.

What did Bellamy do? What did Jose do when needed to cover Pepe and Jose took more stick throughout the game than Carroll.

Emotion? Do me a favour - So mate he drived when should of scored. Convinced he never wanted to leave Newcastle in the first place hence the emotion and passion for his real love.

Get him out.

[LiamG]

I think he's underperformed by a fair way and I'm not sure he was a particularly bright signing at the time, particularly for that amount of money, but he's certainly got a fair bit of potential and showed that he's capable of being very effective in the top-flight at the very least with his performances and scoring record for Newcastle in the first half of last season.

He has been unfortunate with injuries, selections and poor form for the team in general, but at the same time hasn't helped himself at times.

Having said that, I think the main criticism goes to Kenny here, and possibly Comolli too. He's been horribly mismanaged.

Panic-bought for an extortionate price when we didn't need to sign anyone. Not given a fair run in the team. And not been used in a way that's even nearly effective. None of which is his fault.

What i was thinking, He has been in and out the side too much for him to have any kind of understanding or form!

[Melbred]

What i was thinking, He has been in and out the side too much for him to have any kind of understanding or form!

Think we've seen why he hasn't been played. He simply doesn't have the bottle.

[Fordy]

What i was thinking, He has been in and out the side too much for him to have any kind of understanding or form!

You not watched him when he has started mate?

Woeful is being to kind to him. I wouldn't start him as I couldn't count on him as yesterday showed.

[LiamG]

Im sure there are other players that have been woeful this season and still started, Suarez didnt exacly have an amazing game either? Shall we drop him now?

Carroll just needs better managing he's always in and out the team, I feel sorry for him to be honest