Author Topic: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool  (Read 27930 times)

Offline slaphead

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #40 on: April 2, 2012, 11:34:20 pm »
We have absolutely no chance of winning the FA cup. No chance at all. All 3 teams play better football than us, have more confidence than us and actually look like a team. I even include Chelsea in that. We are so far away from where we need to be I honestly dont know where to start but I will say that if we lose to Everton in the cup, and we finish lower than them in the league it'll take this nightmare to a whole new level. I hope to god it doesnt happen.

Yes, we've won the league cup, but in truth we were bloody lucky to win that game. We all go on about how unlucky we are, but 2 misses from your first 2 pens, to come back and win it....thats unreal. Most of the time, we'd lose in that situation and what would everyone be saying then?

Events tonight from down the M62 just add salt to the wound.....and it fuckin hurts.

I fuckin hate you Purslow
 
 

Right so we're in the semi against a team we've beaten twice this season and have no chance ?
Fuck this I'm off to bed

Offline jaffod

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #41 on: April 2, 2012, 11:40:19 pm »
Right so we're in the semi against a team we've beaten twice this season and have no chance ?
Fuck this I'm off to bed

Had to read those first few sentences a couple of times to make sure I wasn't tripping.

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #42 on: April 2, 2012, 11:42:29 pm »
Right so we're in the semi against a team we've beaten twice this season and have no chance ?
Fuck this I'm off to bed

Take a deep breath and read what i said again:

We have absolutely no chance of winning the FA cup.

Where did I say we couldnt beat Everton? Do I think we can beat them? Yes. Do I think we will? Im not sure. Do I think we can beat Everton and then beat Chelsea or Spurs in a final? No. Do I still have tickets to the semi? Yes  :lickin
We’ll still finish in top four - and they won’t. You can quote me on this in May.

Offline flinner

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #43 on: April 2, 2012, 11:42:30 pm »
Another few years of rebuilding the squad ahead, massive summer again were the owners are gonna have to dig very deep to halt the slide, when is it gonna fucking end?, yesterdays performance sums up the season for me, good in some periods and absolutely diabolical in others.

 I hope Kenny can sort this out but i have my doubts.
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Offline AK47

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #44 on: April 2, 2012, 11:49:48 pm »
Few of our players have a winning mentality, the slightest set back and we just panic and fall appart. Also what really came across to me is that we don't have a leader on the pitch. Not sure what our Captain was doing to try to motivate people, he seemed invisible despite the arm band and our vice-captain is just a screaming machine that bollocks people (often for his mistakes). :(

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Online John C

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #45 on: April 2, 2012, 11:51:42 pm »
So why is the team so "mentally fragile"?
Because we released Pako Ayestarán?

What shape did we play? Was it a 433 with Bellamy quite wide and all of the others not being instructed how to combine? Was it 4231 with Shelvey & Spearing advised not to hold and don't worry if they get past you.

If Adam, Henderson, Kuyt and Downing have been rotational scapegoats for months, who can we blame for a shambolic performance when those players are absent.
Of course we are a team without 3 key players (Johnson, Agger & Lucas), but in 2012 this shouldn't be happening. Shouldn't we, haven't we been planning and building for years precisely to be unaffected by such situations. How can 11 Liverpool players lose the ability to pass straight, the sense to move and the motivation to win.
What's quite sad is that I knew it would happen, I didn't expect a Dr Jekyll performance following our Mr Hyde's nightmares.
I'd even welcome going back to being a 1 man team, whether its Suarez or SG that carry's us.

Thank fuck its Villa at home next, an opportunity to settle some nerves ahead of the big game.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #46 on: April 3, 2012, 12:00:34 am »
Take a deep breath and read what i said again:

We have absolutely no chance of winning the FA cup.

Where did I say we couldnt beat Everton? Do I think we can beat them? Yes. Do I think we will? Im not sure. Do I think we can beat Everton and then beat Chelsea or Spurs in a final? No. Do I still have tickets to the semi? Yes  :lickin

Beat Chelsea at their place a couple of times this season, so your suggestion is flawed maybe, lets hope though Chelsea beat Spurs
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Offline Cruiser

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #47 on: April 3, 2012, 12:18:54 am »
The lack of apparent motivation has been clear now for large part of this season. Sad thing is the one player (Gerrard) we often look to fire up others and save our skins has been just strolling around with the occasional waving of his arms. If he isn't motivated then how the fuck will the others be? Suarez is the only player showing quality and effort on a consistent basis but with no one around him to reciprocate hes lost in the wilderness.

Motivating isn't easy. Finding the right balance in the team isn't either and its effects are clear to see with the lack of cohesion and interplay between players which further stifles any confidence they have. The really worrying aspect is the loss of a single player (Lucas) which has contributed a large part of this inbalance shows how vulnerable and weak this squad is.
If he retires I'll eat my fucking cock.

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Offline Garcepticon

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #48 on: April 3, 2012, 12:30:19 am »
Bellamy was shit,
Gerrard was shit,
Carra was stood 10 yards behind Skrtel at one point 

I thought Kenny put out a good team/formation but  the individual performances were really really fucking poor. But on paper I liked what I saw.

The only positive I can think of is that everyone around us is poor, Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea included and I think we can hit the top 4 next season because there aren't four teams who are beyond reach in this league. But we have to get much much better if we are going to get there.

I think a really interesting point on TAW was that Kenny plays us like we are top of the league, but we aren't there yet. Kenny needs to give the team a much more coherent plan because the players are simply not good enough to make themselves one.

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #49 on: April 3, 2012, 12:39:54 am »
Beat Chelsea at their place a couple of times this season, so your suggestion is flawed maybe, lets hope though Chelsea beat Spurs

Yeah I know mate but we had a little lad in the CM position who we have missed like you wouldnt believe since that 2nd win. We're both completely different teams in terms of confidence/belief/mentality than in November. I think they would be able to raise their game higher than we could cope with based on what i've seen over the past 12 league games.

We’ll still finish in top four - and they won’t. You can quote me on this in May.

Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #50 on: April 3, 2012, 12:46:25 am »
I thought dropping Charlie Adam was the solution to all our problems!
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Offline 1021

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #51 on: April 3, 2012, 01:56:16 am »
Gah. It was horrible wasn't it?

It's just been a horrible season, to be honest. I know we could end up with two trophies to our name by the end of it (though that looks increasingly unlikely with the sheer number of absentees for the semi-final, Reina, Agger, Lucas et al.) but it has been dire. Directionless, chaotic, frustrating. The fact is it is April and I don't believe that with a fully fit squad Kenny would be able to pick a starting XI, or at least a starting XI where all of the players would be fielded in their correct positions. What is Steven Gerrard? Because he isn't a central midfielder, yet he is being played there. What is Luis Suarez, because he isn't a no. 9 and that's where he has been played every single time he has taken to the field for Liverpool this season, even when the actual no. 9 is on the pitch. And the less said about the aforementioned no. 9 the better at this stage.

It is desperately frustrating because last season, we had the makings of a very, very good Liverpool side. It was as though you had rewound to the eighties (not that I was there), but added exotic names, pass and move football, international stars, goals and plenty of the, We were the second most in form team in the league and we went from relegation long shots to mounting a sort of assault on forth place. Eleven months on from that that wonderful evening at Craven Cottage, which in terms of pure footballing enjoyment from a Liverpool side comes second only to our demolition of Aston Villa at Anfield in 2009 that I have seen, we are an abject mess.

This is sort of vaguely how I remember us lining up last season, and I honestly had the hardest time working it out because, what I recall from that period from January to May when all the deals had been done was fluidity, was movement, was freedom in our forward play, and goals (remember those?). It was a narrow midfield, the width came from Glen Johnson whether he was being deployed on the right or left of the back four and the front four moved around alot, and all of them scored popped up scoring goals.

--------Lucas--------Spearing---------                           -----------Lucas-------Spearing----------
--Meireles--------------------Maxi-----                           --------------------------------------------                 
---------------Suarez------------------                            -------Maxi-----Meireles-----Kuyt-------
----------------Kuyt--------------------                           ------------------Suarez------------------

Indeed in the fourteen games after the transfer window shut our 'front four' scored 25 league goals, twenty-five and that's discounting a goal a piece from  Skrtel, Johnson and quite bizarrely Joe Cole, as well as Carroll's brace against Manchester City.

Player        Goals
Meireles          3
Suarez            4
Kuyt               9
Maxi               7

The period between Stoke City (h) and Tottenham Hotspur (h) was one filled with a sense of optimisism, it was an absolute joy to watch Liverpool play, Anfield was for that brief window of four months a lovely place to be. We played with freedom, with passion, with fight, with speed, with intellegence, and these weren't easy games both victories against Chelsea and Manchester United and a hard fought draw at the Emirates had to be earned. It wasn't perfect but our form was impressive WWDLWWLWDWWWLL, our performances even more so and the general consensus was that we had something to build on in the summer and with the right investment we could get back up into the Champions League places and eventually challenge for honours.

It was considered by almost everyone that with Dalglish, Clarke, Comolli, and Fenway, with stability off the pitch, unity amongst the fan base that we had a winning formula. Yet this summers transfer activity tore up the foundations of a potentially very good Liverpool side that had pass and move coursing through its veins in favour of the current mess we have seen turn out for large portions of the season. And the reasons as to why are beyond me. Out went the shithouse whose probably won more tackles that Charlie Adam this season, into oblivion went Maxi Rodriguez, the fluid style of play where interchanging positions was common place waved goodbye and a static, rigid, lifeless 4-4-2 replaced it.

The problems we are currently seeing, the nervousness across the back four, the hurried, uninspiring, uncreative play in the midfield, and the ineffective forward play has been there all season long. It has been exacerbated by injuries and in this ridiculous post-cup final lull but it has been there all season long. And to assess where this has all come from we really have to look at the summer and work our way through to the present day.

If you could have drawn up a 'wish-list' in the summer most Liverpool supporters would have said we needed, a left back, a centre back, cover for Lucas Leiva, and support for Luis Suarez. And Kenny/Comolli went out and provided the first two, Jose Enrique came in and has done well save for his somewhat fatigued performances in recent weeks, unsurprising when considering that the only legitimate cover in the shape of Emiliano Insua was sent packing. Sebastian Coates followed and that was an exciting deal was it not? Fellow insomniacs would have seen him impress for Uruguay as we cheered on Luis Suarez (hoped they got knocked out as early as possible so he could have a proper pre-season) at the heart of the South Americans defence. Support for Suarez was in theory found by the inspired re-signing of Craig Bellamy but his knees have limited his impact and ability to remian anyting more than a bit part player.

But after that our focus turned elsewhere, Adam came in as a partner for Lucas, and for 'partner' read 'the fella you leave to do all the legwork while you ping about the ball with gay abandon', Henderson came in as one for the future, a young lad many accredited as being good enough to potentially ascend Gerrard's throne, who has been shunted out on the right of midfield and gone from 'quietly effective' to a bag of nerves ironically cheered off at half time at Anfield, with moments of great technique and skill interspersed throughout. Hopefully the Anfield 'faithful' will resist the urge to beat out of him any remaining self-worth and allow him to be the talent for Liverpool we know he can be, but I don't hold out much hope.


--------------Lucas------Adam-----------------                    ----------------Lucas---------Adam-------------
Henderson----------------------------Downing                    --Henderson-----------------------Downing----
-------------------------------------------------                    ---------------------------------------------------
--------------Carroll----------------------------                    -------------Kuyt---------------------------------
----------------------Suarez--------------------                   ---------------------------Suarez-----------------


This season, from August to April, we have scored on just thirty six occasions and the front four that we have started with this season is producing very little in the way of quality, and where last season it seemed as though everyone was on the same wavelength, the current crop look like strangers.

Player            Goals

Henderson        1
Downing           0
Suarez              7
Kuyt                 2
Carroll              3

The loss of Lucas Leiva was a shattering one, it pretty much spelled the end of our league season. He is growing more and more important to the Liverpool cause with each passing week and he can't even kick a ball again, yet. And while yes, everyone would miss a player of his standard and it is understandable there has been a dip in form as a result it makes the decision not to ensure our squad had adequate cover for the Brazilian a truly unforgivable one. Indeed he shouldn't have even been fielded in the game where his injury occurred, considering the legwork he had been doing in the centre of the park and his lack of preseason. It was horrendous mismanagement, because Spearing, likeable though he is, ain't the man to step into Lucas Leiva's boots.

So that brings us to the question of where has it all gone wrong?

Tactics and personnel:

We have abandoned the offensive minded 4-2-3-1 (of sorts) from last season in favour of a rigid 4-4-2 and through this and judging by the players signed it was clear to me that Kenny/Comolli sought to accomodate Andy Carroll. £35M they had too, right?

So in came Charlie '10M for his set pieces alone' Adam for free kicks and corners, so too Stewart Downing a conventional left winger, and Jose Enrique who had linked well with him at Newcastle. But in order to do this Maxi Rodriguez, a perfect foil for Luis Suarez was dropped, and has barely featured even from the bench this season. Meireles went who likewise linked well with Suarez, as late as in our 2-0 victory against Arsenal in which the pair changed the game and grabbed us the three points.

And while Luis Suarez has still dazzled this season, he hasn't been the same threat as he was last term.

Attitude:
A wise man once said 'the difference between players is not always the quality but the mentality' and I think if our season is a testament to anything it is this, there is no fighting spirit, there is no drive, there is no leadership.

Stewart Downing is not a bad footballer, in fact he is a very good one, but he is all too content to go hide when the going gets tough. He has all the skill necessary to be a very good left winger for Liverpool, he is bloody quick, he can cross a ball, he can score goals, but he is all to happy to coast through games and go unnoticed. He is a good footballer but he doesn't have the mentality to perform at a Club like Liverpool, at Aston Villa a player like Downing flourishes but at Liverpool he has made next to no impact: 0 goals and 0 assists in the PL.

Andy Carroll, I had to mention him eventually. Newcastle was the final straw for me. I've been accepting of the fact he is young, he is inexperienced in the top flight, he has the burden of a price tag he didn't ask for and a move he was pushed into. But on very few occasions has he shown the character, or fight, or commitment that could repay the continued support Kenny Dalglish has given him.

And our captains attitude in the last two games has been unacceptable, certainly not befitting of the armband his is supposed to wear with such distinction, he spent the last fifteen minutes against Wigan hiding, and he barely broke a sweat in that 90 minutes against Newcastle, the only time he took control of anything was sending his manager packing back to his technical area, it may be a case of reading too much into it, but it didn't look good did it?

So, Newcastle 0-2 Liverpool:

The two biggest concerns I brought out of the game yesterday, as for my own sanity I'm disregarding Andy Carroll until the end, came in the shape of the continued presence of Jamie Carragher and the performance (and attitude as mentioned above) of Steven Gerrard.

The simple fact is that Jamie Carragher is not good enough to warrant a starting berth in a Premier League side, and when I say that I don't just mean Liverpool. He has started I believe 15 of the 31 league games this season and these figures are only as 'low' as they are because he suffered an injury which in turn allowed the Agger-Skrtel partnership to being, and it was only on account of it's success that he remained out of the side (though he was brought in on a couple of occasions as a part of a bizarre 5 man defensive unit).

Daniel Agger then breaks his rib (which is of course a huge loss to any side and one that would have adversely affected us regardless) and it is not Sebastian Coates who is chosen to replace him, the internationally capped, athletic, aerially dominant, former Nacional captain who is elected to replace him and garner some much needed Premier League experience allowing us to draw a hugely beneficial positive from a bad situation, but Carragher.

In the five league games that he has started in since this game, we have conceded nine goals, and this is from a defence that had been statistically superior to all other PL sides to the extent that Pepe Reina was on course to win his forth golden glove award. Now we must also consider the disruption to the right back berth since the final, but these symptoms were long before, you only have to consider the disarray away to Spurs, the penalty conceded at Stoke, the fact he allowed Van Persie the most deadly striker in the league to slip away from him twice in the penalty area, on the fact he decided the best course of action when Caldwell found himself with the ball at his feet eight yards out was to, well what exactly did he do?

He shouldn't be playing for Liverpool anymore, not at 34 with tired legs, an even tired-er mind, and when his inclusion brings the degree of disarray to the back line as it does. It is no coincidence that Martin Skrtel, our player of the season, looks a shadow of himself when paired with Carragher. The level of disorder the man apparently famed for his organisational skills brings in worrying. But the biggest reason why Carragher shouldn't be in that side is simply because there is a better player sat on the bench and ultimately the buck stops with Kenny. He has to make the call, galling though it may be for him, he has to make it, and if it's player power, he has to stand up and ship them out.

Now on to our captain, I'm sure everyone will have seen the statistics of Liverpool's form when since Gerrard returned to the starting XI and while in some quarters they'll be dismissed as part of a bitter agenda against him, anyone who is willing to look at them as 'player X', a 31 year old midfielder who has been riddled with injuries and has shirked responsibility for much of the last three years, and not Steven Gerrard the man who lifted the European Cup seven years ago, you will see there are massive, massive concerns.

Playing in a position he insists on playing in, and really we cannot continue to pretend that Steven Gerrard is playing there for any other reason than Steven Gerrard thinks it is his best position, he has looked dramatically off the pace. With Steven Gerrard part of a midfield 'two' in a four man midfield, Liverpool FC will struggle. He isn't a central midfielder, and at 31 he isn't going to suddenly learn how to be one. We can make all the same arguments over and over again if we wish but the fact is the father away from goal, the less relevant Gerrard becomes. In the centre of the park he is wasted. He can't drive at defences (because if he does - which he has - he leaves our back four exposed), he can't link up with Luis Suarez, he cannot provide the crosses, or incisive passes the will create space for his teammates. We are opting to have a mediocre central midfielder in favour of a wonderful offensive midfielder.

The first goal was evidence of the disarray in our defence. Why was Skrtel so deep? Why did both Spearing and Shelvey feign to close down Ben Arfa but neither actually do it? Why were Carragher and Enrique so flatfooted?

The second goal was testament to the lack of presence and quality in the centre of midfield, Newcastle won the ball from a broken down attack deep in their half, they then passed the ball throughout the midfield with ease, with pace and most importantly without any pressure. No pressure. In fact the only time a Liverpool playergot within five feet of the ball was when Skrtel rushed out of the extremely deep back four and then the pass to Cisse was a simple one.

As for Carroll, s long as I live I'll never understand why he went down, it was a dive. Kenny is defending his player again, and to be honest it is testament to the man he is that he hasn't slaughtered him in the press because it was an embarrassment to the Club and to Kenny Dalglish. He was shown faith by getting a starting role, he then dives with the goal at his mercy, whines and moans for the rest of the game, playing the occasion and not the game, is subbed and shows disregard to his manager and his Club by stomping of down the tunnel hurling his shirt as he did so. He doesn't want to be here, he isn't good enough to be here, and he shouldn't be here when the league season kicks off in August.

Kenny:

Quite simply isn't the problem, of course I am concerned at the lack of direction and game plan but he is entitled to a bad season and to reassess and regroup in the Summer. Of course he must take a degree of the blame, as all managers ultimately live and die by results but he has been let down by players, let down by the boardroom over important issues and has the nous to sort out the underlying problems. Last season showed he can get us playing and we don't know the dynamics of the relationship between him and Comolli to know who must take the 'blame' for whom.

But these owners are an unknown entity and this run of form and failure to qualify for the CL is disappointing to say the least. He should be given more time and more money, but I doubt he'll get both and fear he won't get either.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Liverpool in the league this season, can be described in the million words I've probably used above, or with one picture;



A bit of a flop really.




I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline Aristotle

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #52 on: April 3, 2012, 02:01:38 am »
I thought dropping Charlie Adam was the solution to all our problems!

It has and it hasn't. We replaced Charlie Adam with an equally lost and ineffective Steven Gerrard in the central midfield position, ironically enough raising the point whether he was brought in as his cover for when he was out injured
« Last Edit: April 3, 2012, 02:03:53 am by Aristotle »
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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #53 on: April 3, 2012, 02:03:49 am »
Rare as a neutral that a Newcastle win was what i'd expect in this fixture, but that was the case here.

It's not the Liverpool I know, the Liverpool I was told about when first getting into football, even if you haven't won the title for a long time this is worse than ever. 

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #54 on: April 3, 2012, 02:20:10 am »
Most of the obvious has been said. It was said by a former Red on telly but brought things into clarity for me and that is about 6 goals from our new signings all season.

Whether you agree with the pundit or not, many won't. But the truth is there whether you reckon Lawro is a crap pundit or failed ex-manager or all of the above.

I firmly believe Kenny will turn it around, it may mean shipping some out and eating humble pie if others don't work out. The Newcastle game highlighted many of our constant problems this year i.e plenty of the ball but little to show for it.

Carroll often look either out of position, lost for ideas or both. If ever there was a game I would of loved him to stick in a hat trick this would be the one. But no, he had a miserable game like most.

Rather than analyzing each game into the run in I would rather look to next season. Regardless of which players are out there they need to exhibit the qualities that have eluded us lately such as the ability to convert possession into goals, a front pairing that understand each other.



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Offline ChrisV

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #56 on: April 3, 2012, 03:01:24 am »
Of all the incomprehensible things about the fixture on Sunday, the most incomprehensible thing was Jamie Carragher getting yet another start. I really hope Coates is carrying an injury (well obviously I don't hope that, but you know what I mean) because that would be the only sane reason to start Carragher. If Kenny has watched Carragher play for us this season, and the effect he has on Skrtel, and still thinks "I'll go with experience here, a steady hand at the tiller" then that is really worrying.

I also thought it was pretty poor man management to sub Carroll at that point in the game. It exposed him to an inevitable wave of boos and jeers from his home town, home club crowd. Can't have been pleasant.

My gut says that Kenny deserves another year, but it's really hard to know. His instinct is to defend his players to the hilt to an almost self-parodying extent (remember the "Downing is better than I thought he was" comments?). I certainly prefer that to Roy "The B Team" Hodgson, but it does make it difficult to tell if the King understands the extent to which things are not working.

It's certainly becoming harder to argue that the people who were worried about Kenny's appointment at the time because he'd been too long out of the game didn't have a point. Our "Buy British" policy, the purchasing at great cost of an old-school "target man" centre-forward, the persistence with 4-4-2 when it hasn't worked, all have a whiff of anachronism about them. Does Kenny understand that these things can't continue? Hard to say.

Offline Garcepticon

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #57 on: April 3, 2012, 03:23:23 am »

Excellent considered description of the season, good to see a post which avoids hyperbole.

Offline Les Willis

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #58 on: April 3, 2012, 03:40:02 am »
The whole thing is a fuck up. But it's only football. When I get up tomorrow (which won't be early, as I'm on leave) I've said I'll give up smoking... if I can do that, we can win the next few games...  :D

Offline RedinExile

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #59 on: April 3, 2012, 03:48:27 am »
It was brutal to see us fall apart against Newcastle, of all teams. Newcastle who sold us a pup and replaced him with not just one, but two, strikers most of our fans would now kill for. Newcastle who we normally stuff, St James's or no St James's. Newcastle who are managed by a tart like Pardew but who somehow contrive to play a maverick like Ben Arfa, the sort of intuitive player we haven't seen take the field for Liverpool since.....since....since who? Litmanen? Beardsley?  Of course he wouldn't be able to play for us because he doesn't 'track back' or whatever it is the Dirk Kuyts of the world do.
 
You have forgotten Luis Garcia of course, in a team of hard working trackers; not sure what your point is here, as we had both until recently, as well you know. The Dirk Kuyts do not only the donkey work which they are constantly lambasted for by supposed connoisseurs of the game like your self appointed self, but also do shit like score important goals. Try to remember that while your pontificating over your next post on the cherry brandies. I guess he must be shit for trying, let's go for the lazy artisans you can wank yourself silly over.

Give me a work ethic any day, still, you know best.
There are always more fortresses to torch.

Offline harleydanger

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #60 on: April 3, 2012, 03:54:45 am »
Its like when you haven''t got your leg over in a while, you get tenser and tenser, and the birds can sense that and your chances got down more and more and this then makes you tenser.

I don't know how this relates to Liverpool, but has anyone got a link to redtube?
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

Normally a player can look great on tubes, but one of the things that's encouraging for me is just the amount of youtube videos on him

Offline RedinExile

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #61 on: April 3, 2012, 04:02:11 am »
I'm not sure its a lack of effort as such, more just a ridiculously weak mentality where the heads of the team start to drop as soon as things go against us (or just if we don't score after looking good for 20 mins).

I've never really been convinced by the mentality of our team in recent years, but this one really takes the biscuit when it comes to folding at the first sight of adversity, shambolic stuff.

I do think though that we do seem to struggle to make effective tactical changes as the game goes on, as has been the case for a fair bit of this season.


With regards to Gerrard, I know I'm pretty much in a minority of 1, but I still don't see why he was offered another year on his deal when he was, he's a player who is being paid like an elite level player but hasn't remotely consistently shown that for a few years now, I'd have applauded the club for saying they'd look at a new deal for him at the end of the season after he'd had this season to show what he was capable of, post-injury, I'm still convinced that he has more to offer than he has shown so far this season though (with a few notable exceptions), we just don't seem to have generally used him in positions where he can hurt the opposition.


Because when the club should have backed the manager they backed the vocal local senior pros, can't believe Smith and Robinson would have made that mistake.
There are always more fortresses to torch.

Offline Another Red

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #62 on: April 3, 2012, 04:10:25 am »
Kenny's attempt to play 4-3-3 backfired horribly. Everyone out there looked lost.

I thought we were starting to play some good stuff around the Carling Cup final playing 4-4-2/4-4-1-1. We were dominating possession, creating plenty of chances but couldn't finish them off. Carroll was playing well too. We just needed a bit more composure in the final third.

I don't like the way Kenny has managed Carroll at all in recent matches. He should be starting every game.

Sorry, but there's not much to be positive about at the moment. Hopefully we don't set up the same way against Everton.

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #63 on: April 3, 2012, 04:11:25 am »
It might be a good follow up, a question, after the last 7 games and Newcastle in particular what 10 players should we keep for next season, assuming the remaining players would be put up for sale:
For me:
Lucas
Agger
Skrtel
Enrique
Johnson
Henderson (on potential alone)
Suarez
Kelly
Random draw for two more, since after these 8 the rest are truly abysmal. Maybe Shelvey.
Gerrard is too old to build around. The team needs another overhaul because the current one was a complete failure.

Offline harleydanger

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #64 on: April 3, 2012, 04:24:01 am »
The current one isn't a complete failure. We tore a lot of teams apart without result purely because we don't have a finisher. Walking into the 2nd half of the season knowing if we let a goal in we lose has been what has resulted in the cluster fuck of the last 7 games.
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #65 on: April 3, 2012, 04:28:10 am »
I do not know if this is comparison is right but watching us play these days reminds me of England at the World Cup. No desire, a complete lack of ideas, devoid of tactics and some serious ability issues. Hell, the second half I thought was a mirror image of the second half England laboured against Germany at the WC.
« Last Edit: April 3, 2012, 04:32:12 am by Gerrvindh »

Offline RedinExile

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #66 on: April 3, 2012, 04:34:00 am »
I do not know if this is going to go down well but watching us play these days reminds me of England at the World Cup. No desire, a complete lack of ideas, devoid of tactics and some serious ability issues. Hell, the second half I thought was a mirror image of the second half England laboured against Germany at the WC.
The club ditched the successful pass/move/press game in favour of wanting to be more British and hoping O'Neill and Bruce likes us more. Interestingly Carra is now telling us after Hodgson came in the club was on it's knees, and Kenny deserves time. Breathtaking! Lol
There are always more fortresses to torch.

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #67 on: April 3, 2012, 04:48:27 am »
I was just shocked at the massive holes in Midfield, Gerrard was deep and Spearing had the same tendancy to drop back to pick up the ball, massive gaps between them and the front.
We are licking our wounds and we need to snap out of it.
Otherwise some of those players will be fucked off in the summer.

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Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #68 on: April 3, 2012, 05:15:46 am »
You have forgotten Luis Garcia of course, in a team of hard working trackers; not sure what your point is here, as we had both until recently, as well you know. The Dirk Kuyts do not only the donkey work which they are constantly lambasted for by supposed connoisseurs of the game like your self appointed self, but also do shit like score important goals. Try to remember that while your pontificating over your next post on the cherry brandies. I guess he must be shit for trying, let's go for the lazy artisans you can wank yourself silly over.

Give me a work ethic any day, still, you know best.

Yet another buying into the stereotype of these artisans who sit about like they are at the beach until the ball comes by them where they then do a couple of stepovers and then pass the ball to someone else and get back to working on their tan.  Frankly that is the kind of stereotyping that has done us no good.  The virus Yorky mentioned IMO has pervaded into supporter mentality.  In other words, we've lost our balls.  We no longer have any swagger as a club.  We pretend we do but actually no we don't.  We are no longer used to being the overwhelming favourites.  We prefer being underdogs and that mentality is reflected where we have ''working class heroes'' rather than throughbreds. 

As for the game and what has been happening off late.  I believe we had a plan for this season.  4-4-2 with Downing, Carroll and Henderson all playing and frankly that plan was flawed right from the start because the personnel was all wrong.  Since then we have look confused and have no idea what we are trying to do tactically.  Mentality has been shoddy.  There are more issues of confidence and the aforementioned lack of swagger than ever.  Its no wonder we look better when Agger and Johnson are back in because they are two top professionals who have the requisite bollocks.  Take them out and those ranks are ever thinner.  We've got our recruitment terribly wrong and that is where it all ends.  The players we bought were't good enough by themselves.  They certainly don't fit each other tactically and mentally they have been found wanting. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #69 on: April 3, 2012, 05:58:03 am »
Right now it seems pretty obvious the confidence of the team is shot, nobody is playing really well, nobody is really dragging the team forward with either effort or brilliance.  Kenny needs to start picking the right players, and setting us up tactically to respond to the strengths of our opposition while exploiting the weaknesses.  Shelvey and Spearing in the first side against a strong Newcastle? Gerrard out to lunch mentally?  Carroll trying to dive in front of an open goal? We just can't afford to let our sentiments cloud our reason, and have seasons and millions of pounds basically playing football manager in real life, with OUR club.  Lucas was our anchor to the point of being a joke, the reliance on his game to shape our system wasn't just underestimated, it was almost as if nobody was aware of it.  If you can't adapt you die, simple as.

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #70 on: April 3, 2012, 06:58:16 am »
Finally, the Geordies are wankers. 'You'll never get a job'? Yeah, like Tyneside is riding some kind of economic miracle. I used to feel a sense of solidarity with that part of the world. But today it sounded like a stadium full of David Camerons. Shame on you you c*nts.   

I have thought that for years. I've never understood the "loveable Geordies" claim.
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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #71 on: April 3, 2012, 07:12:12 am »
I was just shocked at the massive holes in Midfield, Gerrard was deep and Spearing had the same tendancy to drop back to pick up the ball, massive gaps between them and the front.
We are licking our wounds and we need to snap out of it.
Otherwise some of those players will be fucked off in the summer.


And that would be a bad thing?

Offline redbanky

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #72 on: April 3, 2012, 07:23:42 am »
Mind you, after this massive failure, come Saturday it's still gonna be Carra sitting in defence.
"Mit hjerte banker stadig for Liverpool. Det har det altid gjort. Det vil det altid gøre."

Offline moloch

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #73 on: April 3, 2012, 07:48:44 am »
Most interesting aspect of the game was waiting for the home fans run out of breath from booing at half of our team for one reason or another.. Shows what a no mark bunch they are.. booing at Bellamy, really?

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #74 on: April 3, 2012, 08:08:19 am »
gone right off the pot bellied, tab smoking, capped T-shirted tramps and their self-aggrandising Phil Brown-esque manager.......and now really looking forward to their inevitable implosion and sack-the-board protests
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #75 on: April 3, 2012, 08:18:24 am »
The Dirk Kuyts do not only the donkey work which they are constantly lambasted for by supposed connoisseurs of the game like your self appointed self, but also do shit like score important goals. Try to remember that while your pontificating over your next post on the cherry brandies. I guess he must be shit for trying, let's go for the lazy artisans you can wank yourself silly over.

Give me a work ethic any day, still, you know best.

Did you see the amount of work Ben Arfa was doing? Ever watched Pienaar, the man of perpetual motion?

The thing is they are hugely creative on the ball too.

Oh, and "self appointed self"? What does that mean little man? 

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Offline fowler9_god

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #76 on: April 3, 2012, 08:26:15 am »
Great post 1021. Can't disagree with a word of it.
Justice for the 96

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #77 on: April 3, 2012, 08:27:17 am »
It might be a good follow up, a question, after the last 7 games and Newcastle in particular what 10 players should we keep for next season, assuming the remaining players would be put up for sale:
For me:
Lucas
Agger
Skrtel
Enrique
Johnson
Henderson (on potential alone)
Suarez
Kelly
Random draw for two more, since after these 8 the rest are truly abysmal. Maybe Shelvey.
Gerrard is too old to build around. The team needs another overhaul because the current one was a complete failure.
Complete failure may be a bit hyperbolic but your list of 8 + Shelvey is not too far wrong.
And with such simplicity,
The European Cup, surely, is won.

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #78 on: April 3, 2012, 08:27:24 am »
And that would be a bad thing?

Maybe not mate, I dunno. Just shocked at the lack of Guile more than anything.
I have utter faith in Kenny, not so much in some of the players he brought in.
the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Round Table Newcastle 2-0 Liverpool
« Reply #79 on: April 3, 2012, 08:34:00 am »
Maybe not mate, I dunno. Just shocked at the lack of Guile more than anything.
I have utter faith in Kenny, not so much in some of the players he brought in.

We have as much guile as captain caveman unfortunately. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.