Topic: Pink Floyd

[Nobby Reserve]

Off the subject slightly but Pompeii is fine once you get away from the main areas. It’s very atmospheric, particularly with Vesuvius’s truncated snout lowering in the background.

Did a day trip from a cruise. Was, like you say, atmospheric. Our guide was rubbish, though, a bossy woman who spent ages and ages on boring places and either skipped through or totally missed out many of the key places.


As for Floyd, it's hard to pin down one song as a favourite. In no particular order, the following would have a claim:

Echoes
Time
Brain Damage
Dogs
Shine On You Crazy Diamond (1-9 - I've got a playlist on Spotify that's just parts 1-5 and 6-9 so I can listen to the whole piece without interruption)

The feelings and emotions all give me have been forged in sessions of being heavily stoned, many of which date back to the late-80's/early 90's with mates I'm still close with. It's weird and hard to explain. Echoes takes me back to playing Top Trumps* in my car with mates on this car park we'd hang out at, passing joints round, and it being the middle of winter, with Echoes playing on tape.


* specifically these: http://speculativehorizons.blogspot.com/2009/10/fantasy-top-trumps.html



Roger Waters is a genius and, although I agree with most of his political positions, some are shitty (eg, wrt Russia) and he can be a cock.

[Terry de Niro]

Oh and Roger Waters is a massive wanker

At the risk of a ban after being a member on here for nearly 18 years,  I still think his view on the bully state of Israel as being 100% spot on.
Or are we not allowed to call them out?

If not, then maybe RAWK is not for me. 

[ToneLa]

It is a great shame you are letting another person's view of Israel overrule your own personal understanding of the great perfection of music conveyed and received in the holiest of all relationships.

Man is frequent deaf to a god that never speaks. I pity the person deaf to music, who places it secondary below trivial concerns. There alone you can find sanctuary. Wallowing in your own politics is no substitute.

[JerseyKloppite]

At the risk of a ban after being a member on here for nearly 18 years,  I still think his view on the bully state of Israel as being 100% spot on.
Or are we not allowed to call them out?

If not, then maybe RAWK is not for me. 

Calling him a wanker is absolutely fine. His views on Ukraine, Russia and Putin make him a wanker.

Criticism of the state of Israel is also entirely merited, and him calling them out is fine. I think there is some legitimate concern over whether he's anti-Semitic but you can obviously hold the two beliefs together simultaneously, IE criticising Israel whilst not being anti-semitic. Only Roger Waters will know his real beliefs.

So calling out a bully state is fine, but this goes a bit further than that (and touches on things that have nothing to do with Israel).

[24/7]

At the risk of a ban after being a member on here for nearly 18 years,  I still think his view on the bully state of Israel as being 100% spot on.
Or are we not allowed to call them out?

If not, then maybe RAWK is not for me. 

Actually Terry, maybe RAWK isn't for me if even some simple satire is missing the mark. The emoji should've been a clue. It was an ironic tip of the hat to the thread derailing that had been going on.

For the record (see, I did it again - satirical pun alert  ), he's also a massive wanker for the way he's behaved in general over the years towards his own band and other musicians generally. Sure, musically he's a genius, but he's not a fucking saint!!!!

[only6times]

Gilmour's guitar work on Animals is brutally epic.

[ToneLa]

Gilmour is the best musician in post-Syd Floyd

[BlackandWhitePaul]

I've had The Division Bell playing on a loop since 6.20am, 7 and ½ hours later and it's still blasting out. 

As I type this out "A great day for freedom" is playing.

https://youtu.be/Nc7bHU6ylvM

[Terry de Niro]

Calling him a wanker is absolutely fine. His views on Ukraine, Russia and Putin make him a wanker.

Criticism of the state of Israel is also entirely merited, and him calling them out is fine. I think there is some legitimate concern over whether he's anti-Semitic but you can obviously hold the two beliefs together simultaneously, IE criticising Israel whilst not being anti-semitic. Only Roger Waters will know his real beliefs.

So calling out a bully state is fine, but this goes a bit further than that (and touches on things that have nothing to do with Israel).

Actually Terry, maybe RAWK isn't for me if even some simple satire is missing the mark. The emoji should've been a clue. It was an ironic tip of the hat to the thread derailing that had been going on.

For the record (see, I did it again - satirical pun alert  ), he's also a massive wanker for the way he's behaved in general over the years towards his own band and other musicians generally. Sure, musically he's a genius, but he's not a fucking saint!!!!

In full agreement with you both.
Thanks for the replies.   

[gjr1]

Glad I came back in this thread. I hadn’t listened to any Floyd for a long time.

Just listened to Wish You Was Here, Animals and now listening to the Wall.

Will save my favourite for last. I’ll never forget the first time I heard DSOTM and I’ve listened to it so many times it would be impossible to count.

Once tripped out for 36 hours and the only thing we listened to was dsotm. Poor tape was worn out after that. Had it on one of the tape decks that could play a cassette constantly without having to get up and mess around with it.

[ToneLa]

Tripped out?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Tripped out?

Fuse box

[ToneLa]

Long as no fuses were blown 

[gjr1]

Tripped out?

Acid (LSD) trip

[Nobby Reserve]

Gilmour is the best musician in post-Syd Floyd

Probably. His guitar playing touches places inside my brain that no other guitarist (and I've listened to all the greats and more) don't come close to. At its best, it's simultaneously angry, melancholic, knowing, desperate, dreamy. His second solo on Shine On conveys so, so much, like it's Barrett himself begging for help and salvation.

It's what Waters' solo stuff lacks, making Waters' solo work fall short.

But then, I find Floyd without Waters to be equally lacking. It has no real soul to it. The lyrics seem contrived, the music missing an edginess. I can appreciate it but not love it. Nothing post-Waters stirs me. If Floyd were only ever Momentary Lapse onwards, I'd almost certainly not give them a second thought.

People talk about Lennon & McCartney needing each other to make perfection, and it's even more pronounced with Waters & Gilmour.

The inherent anger and bitterness that Waters has coursing through him drove Floyd. And he's a genuinely brilliant wordsmith.

[only6times]

Gilmour is the best musician in post-Syd Floyd

Have heard Gilmour say that Waters had "the ear", knew exactly where a chord change should be etc.

[only6times]

Probably. His guitar playing touches places inside my brain that no other guitarist (and I've listened to all the greats and more) don't come close to. At its best, it's simultaneously angry, melancholic, knowing, desperate, dreamy. His second solo on Shine On conveys so, so much, like it's Barrett himself begging for help and salvation.

It's what Waters' solo stuff lacks, making Waters' solo work fall short.

But then, I find Floyd without Waters to be equally lacking. It has no real soul to it. The lyrics seem contrived, the music missing an edginess. I can appreciate it but not love it. Nothing post-Waters stirs me. If Floyd were only ever Momentary Lapse onwards, I'd almost certainly not give them a second thought.

People talk about Lennon & McCartney needing each other to make perfection, and it's even more pronounced with Waters & Gilmour.

The inherent anger and bitterness that Waters has coursing through him drove Floyd. And he's a genuinely brilliant wordsmith.

Spot on about post Waters Floyd, I skip it all when it on a Floyd playlist, the lyrics are twee and  insipid.

Waters solo stuff has still produced superb work that is clever and relevant at the time of release.

Gilmour has the touch of a midwife, unbelievable touch. His description of the start of "Wish you were here" is great, "It was just one of those things that fall out of your guitar every so often."

[liverbloke]

Have heard Gilmour say that Waters had "the ear", knew exactly where a chord change should be etc.

right after a different one? 

[redan]

Another thing Waters obviously possesses is how an album should flow and work conceptually, might sound simple but it’s anything but.

Prime example is Wish You Were Here. After DSOTM they were touring with three new songs; Raving and Drooling (Sheep), You Gotta Be Crazy (Dogs) and Shine On You Crazy Diamond. The rest of the band, in particular Gilmour, wanted all three to be on the next record but Waters knew that they just wouldn’t work together so decided to split Shine On to be bookends to start and end the album and leave the other two off completely for the next record. The rest is history.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Another thing Waters obviously possesses is how an album should flow and work conceptually, might sound simple but it’s anything but.

Prime example is Wish You Were Here. After DSOTM they were touring with three new songs; Raving and Drooling (Sheep), You Gotta Be Crazy (Dogs) and Shine On You Crazy Diamond. The rest of the band, in particular Gilmour, wanted all three to be on the next record but Waters knew that they just wouldn’t work together so decided to split Shine On to be bookends to start and end the album and leave the other two off completely for the next record. The rest is history.

If Waters is that good at sequencing LPs, he should have noticed that 'Corporal Clegg' is shite and left it off A Saucerful of Secrets then...

[redan]

If Waters is that good at sequencing LPs, he should have noticed that 'Corporal Clegg' is shite and left it off A Saucerful of Secrets then...

What you on about??! That kazoo is legendary😁

On a completely different note, I listened to Ummagumma recently and what the fuck were they thinking?? I’ve probably only listened to the studio album about 5 times all the way through (which I think is an achievement in itself) but apart from Gilmour’s section which is passable and Waters Grantchester Meadows which is ok, the rest is amongst the worst music I’ve ever heard😂 how they went from this to Meddle in two years is quite staggering. I keep hoping one day I’ll hear something more or work out what they were going for but nope it’s just crap

[Zlen]

I like Ummagumma.
Spent too many hashed afternoons with it not to like it.

[ToneLa]

Obscured by fucking Clouds!!

[Nobby Reserve]

Obscured by fucking Clouds!!

...is a fairly decent album. Lots of further steps toward the peak-Floyd era of Dark Side to The Wall (it's a little frothy, but it was cobbled-together quickly and was constrained by being a movie soundtrack)

[kaesarsosei]

Going back a few weeks, but thanks all for recommending The Final Cut. Two Suns in the Sunset is now right up there with my favourite Floyd songs. Incredible.

[Nobby Reserve]

Going back a few weeks, but thanks all for recommending The Final Cut. Two Suns in the Sunset is now right up there with my favourite Floyd songs. Incredible.

Musically it's nothing special, but The Gunner's Dream has lyrics that are right up there.

I can't verbalise what I feel about the Final Cut. I don't love it. Well, not in the way I do other albums, and it has none of the epic tracks like Echoes, Shine On, Dogs, etc that take you on a huge stoned drift. It's rough and feels cobbled-together in parts, and there's definitely a few weak tracks in there. But it's brilliant in its own way. I think a fair bit has to do with it being 'of the time', which was me about to become a teenager and gaining a broader understanding of the world and how it's full of utter c*nts. I have strong memories of that time in my life, many clouded in confusion, fear and self-doubt.

Just as parts of Animals and The Wall speak to me at some ethereally subconscious level about the bonkers and bewildering era that was having one's formative years in the mid-late 70's, The Final Cut conjures more definite imagery and feelings.

I find it a little unsettling.

[Black Bull Nova]

Waters and Gilmour were a bit Lennon and Mcartney really, better the sum than the parts

[Buck Pete]

Going back a few weeks, but thanks all for recommending The Final Cut. Two Suns in the Sunset is now right up there with my favourite Floyd songs. Incredible.

I’ve just sat enjoying several very large G&T”s and listening to the whole of the Final Cut,

I’m with you “two suns in the Sunset” is a wonderful closing track.

You can tell this album meant a lot to Roger.  More than the rest of the band, unfortunately, but lyrically it’s still a superb heartfelt album from Waters IMO.

[Buck Pete]

Probably. His guitar playing touches places inside my brain that no other guitarist (and I've listened to all the greats and more) don't come close to. At its best, it's simultaneously angry, melancholic, knowing, desperate, dreamy. His second solo on Shine On conveys so, so much, like it's Barrett himself begging for help and salvation.

It's what Waters' solo stuff lacks, making Waters' solo work fall short.

But then, I find Floyd without Waters to be equally lacking. It has no real soul to it. The lyrics seem contrived, the music missing an edginess. I can appreciate it but not love it. Nothing post-Waters stirs me. If Floyd were only ever Momentary Lapse onwards, I'd almost certainly not give them a second thought.

People talk about Lennon & McCartney needing each other to make perfection, and it's even more pronounced with Waters & Gilmour.

The inherent anger and bitterness that Waters has coursing through him drove Floyd. And he's a genuinely brilliant wordsmith.

Great Post.  Totally agree.

[Buck Pete]

Forgot to add.  (re: Final Cut).   'Not Now John' is a ferociously epic track. 

[kezzy]

Forgot to add.  (re: Final Cut).   'Not Now John' is a ferociously epic track.

Correct. 

[Filler.]

Obscured by fucking Clouds!!

Is the right answer!!

[kaesarsosei]

People talk about Lennon & McCartney needing each other to make perfection, and it's even more pronounced with Waters & Gilmour.

I don't think there's any pairing group in history where this is more applicable than Waters/Gilmour. Miles, miles better than the sum of their parts.

I can rhyme off at least 10 solo McCartney songs that I like (even if its not fashionable to say that anymore), can't say that about Floyd.

[Terry de Niro]

I don't think there's any pairing group in history where this is more applicable than Waters/Gilmour. Miles, miles better than the sum of their parts.

I can rhyme off at least 10 solo McCartney songs that I like (even if its not fashionable to say that anymore), can't say that about Floyd.

I think it's been said before on here. But Roger thinking the band would just disappear without him in it was a foolish thing for him to do. But by doing that and the band went on from strength to strength without him, playing massive venues whilst he was still doing relatively small venues.
This eventually ate him away.
Yes, he's been doing massive arenas for a good few years now, but in my opinion, he just didn't have near enough of the same huge impact that the band always had. 

[Buck Pete]

I think it's been said before on here. But Roger thinking the band would just disappear without him in it was a foolish thing for him to do. But by doing that and the band went on from strength to strength without him, playing massive venues whilst he was still doing relatively small venues.
This eventually ate him away.
Yes, he's been doing massive arenas for a good few years now, but in my opinion, he just didn't have near enough of the same huge impact that the band always had. 

The thing is though.  Imagine If it was Gilmour who had fucked off and left Waters, Mason, and Wright to carry on the Floyd good name.   

Would a modern-day Waters-fronted Floyd have made better albums than AMLOR and Divison Bell?

We will never know of course, but food for thought.

One thing I'm sure we all agree on is they are both geniuses.  Never gonna happen like but PLEASE reform and do Glastonbury or something for one last time.

[Terry de Niro]

The thing is though.  Imagine If it was Gilmour who had fucked off and left Waters, Mason, and Wright to carry on the Floyd good name.   

Would a modern-day Waters-fronted Floyd have made better albums than AMLOR and Divison Bell?

We will never know of course, but food for thought.

One thing I'm sure we all agree on is they are both geniuses.  Never gonna happen like but PLEASE reform and do Glastonbury or something for one last time.

Totally agree and would love that. But I think the bitterness between Roger And Dave has gone too big now.

[Black Bull Nova]

I don't think there's any pairing group in history where this is more applicable than Waters/Gilmour. Miles, miles better than the sum of their parts.

I can rhyme off at least 10 solo McCartney songs that I like (even if its not fashionable to say that anymore), can't say that about Floyd.

Yes, Lennon and McCartney were still noticeable after the split (as was Harrison) but probably far less than the sum of their parts. It was Ringo that was consistent before and after.


I've had no interest in anything they have done since they split apart, yes, some signs of light but you would expect that from anyone with an ounce of talent. Pink Floyd when they were together were one of the best bands in the world, apart, very little at all really.

[redan]

I really like Waters’ Amused to Death album which has Jeff Beck on guitar. I’d say it’s my favourite album from either side since Roger left.

Regarding the success Floyd had post Waters, especially live, I saw an interview with Gilmour and Mason must have been late 80’s and the interviewer mentions how much better they’re doing, selling out much bigger venues than Waters, expecting them to gloat and Gilmour (after a wry smile) just says people want the Brand not the Band. He uses the analogy of if the guy who invented Coca Cola leaves to start his own Brand using the same recipe, the public still won’t bother with the new Brand they will still buy Coca Cola as that is what they recognise. Thought it was quite diplomatic of him considering it was only a few years after Waters was being a twat and suing them.

[Terry de Niro]

I really like Waters’ Amused to Death album which has Jeff Beck on guitar. I’d say it’s my favourite album from either side since Roger left.

Regarding the success Floyd had post Waters, especially live, I saw an interview with Gilmour and Mason must have been late 80’s and the interviewer mentions how much better they’re doing, selling out much bigger venues than Waters, expecting them to gloat and Gilmour (after a wry smile) just says people want the Brand not the Band. He uses the analogy of if the guy who invented Coca Cola leaves to start his own Brand using the same recipe, the public still won’t bother with the new Brand they will still buy Coca Cola as that is what they recognise. Thought it was quite diplomatic of him considering it was only a few years after Waters was being a twat and suing them.

Excellent point and always found Gilmour, Wright, and Mason to be much more graceful than Roger was after the the split.

[SvenJohansen]

The albums I find myself going back to more often than not are Animals, The Wall, Dark Side Of The Moon and Meddle. I tried The Final Cut around thirty-something years ago and I didn't like it then. But after reading some of the more recent posts here there's a lot of you saying that's it's good or better. So today I gave it a go thinking it might have aged like a fine wine. I tried but I couldn't even finish it. I really don't like it. So I listened to Obscured By Clouds instead. Again for the first time in decades but this one I liked. I'll listen to it a few more times I think. After this I'll have to give Atom Heart Mother a turn. I'm not hopeful though as I didn't like it all that much when I was in my teens. I'm in a Pink Floyd mood lately.