Author Topic: Jordan Henderson  (Read 341296 times)

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #560 on: March 11, 2012, 05:28:11 AM »
charlie adam has been involved in nearly 30 percent of our goals,how many goals has henderson scored/set up?

You have been involved with 30% of the trolling in recent days my gurrier troglodyte.

Offline The Red Dub

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #561 on: March 11, 2012, 05:29:37 AM »
cheers boss.
"Liverpool lost that sense of purpose when Steve ­Heighway was sacked, and the Anfield academy was restocked with over-rated, underwhelming, imported talent."

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #562 on: March 11, 2012, 05:53:55 AM »
I think Henderson shows a lot of awareness in terms of passing short and one touch. Certainly, he is much better already in terms of ball control and passing intelligence than Adam.

Raul isn't to be. Or is Aquilani. For better or for worse, Henderson is ours. I think he will be here in five years still, and playing an important role (fitness permitting). Adam won't for sure, and, if we have been successful then Spearing will be plying his trade with an inferior team.

His ball retention and control is a lot better than Adam's thats for sure but Henderson seems to shirk away from responsibility while Adam for all his failings at least attempts the killer ball no matter how ill advised it may be.  Combine the two sets of attributes and you'll have a player.  Unfortunately we cannot do that and at the moment neither is sufficient. 

I've seen alot of intelligence in his play, his first time passes if used in the right system can be the key to unlocking defenses rather than 40 yard diagonals and shots from the half way line. I definitely see him becoming better than Meireles

Nowhere near as consistently and frequently as he ought to to be honest.  Especially in the final third where we have lacked productivity all season.  His ball retention is quite good but he does precious little at the moment apart from retaining it. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline subroc

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #563 on: March 11, 2012, 06:27:34 AM »
Henderson is the right player signed at the wrong stage of his development for the wrong price and for the wrong position.

The club should haev swooped for him 3-4 seasons ago at a much lower price and developed him in the reserves and on loan. And then use him as a central midfielder.

As a current first team player however the way he is right now, he is not ready to be in our first team.

Offline LiverBirdKop

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #564 on: March 11, 2012, 06:28:55 AM »
Henderson is the right player signed at the wrong stage of his development for the wrong price and for the wrong position.

The club should haev swooped for him 3-4 seasons ago at a much lower price and developed him in the reserves and on loan. And then use him as a central midfielder.

As a current first team player however the way he is right now, he is not ready to be in our first team.
Go watch the video Mostar made of him vs. Sunderland. He wasn't that bad.

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #565 on: March 11, 2012, 06:33:13 AM »
cheers boss.

Just noticed your sig. Lifted from here?

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/michael-calvin/Michael-Calvin-column-Liverpool-v-Everton-How-Fernando-Torres-Pepe-Reina-and-Mikel-Artetas-red-and-blue-Spanish-breakfast-club-is-carrying-on-Merseysides-great-footballing-tradition-article673619.html

Quote
Tomorrow morning, when the sound and fury of the 215th Merseyside derby has subsided, three families will share breakfast.

Neighbours in Liverpool’s Albert Dock, they are ­migrant workers who cling to their culture without ­disrespecting their host city.

Five children, aged four and under, will demand ­attention. Their mothers, Olalla, Yolanda and Lorena, will share the cooking.

Their fathers, Fernando, Pepe and Mikel, will ­reacquaint themselves with reality.
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Like most Spanish lads, of a certain age, they grew up watching a children’s ­cartoon series, Oliver and Benji.

The story, of a group of boys who began playing football in the street and ended up as professionals entranced them.

It is the story of their lives.

Fernando Torres and his next door neighbour Pepe Reina have World Cup ­winners’ medals, and central roles in the Anfield ­psychodrama.

Mikel Arteta, Everton’s marquee player and ­multilingual ambassador, is arguably the best uncapped footballer on the planet.

So what? I hear you say.

Liverpool is a football city, spray painted blue and red.

It has its own rhythms and traditions, fables and ­foibles.

It is ignited by the passions of the people’s game.

It doesn’t need homilies involving mercenaries who are here today, gone ­tomorrow.

Perhaps you should think again...

Judge them on who they are, what they represent, rather than who they play for, or how much they earn.

As an outsider, Arteta comes closest to capturing the ­essence of Everton’s underdog mentality. He looks beyond the “fantastic madness that goes on in the stands” on derby day.

He speaks of mutual trust, a club “that feels like a home”.

It may not have a mega-budget, but “it is rich because of the people within it.”

His best friend, Xabi Alonso, used to share the Spanish breakfasts with his wife Nagore and their two ­children.

The domino effect of his move to Real Madrid is still being felt at Anfield.

Arteta admits “any club would miss Xabi”.

They were friends from the age of eight in San Sebastian, but in a football sense, Arteta grew up with Reina in ­Barcelona. They were billeted in La Maisa, the farmhouse in the shadow of the Nou Camp that has been home to 500 adolescents over three ­decades.

They were nurtured as ­players, as people.

They developed technically, educationally, emotionally.

They played to a common system, and were schooled in the wider importance of ­football, to the community. Liverpool lost that sense of purpose when Steve ­Heighway was sacked, and the Anfield academy was restocked with over-rated, underwhelming, imported talent.

The traditions of Jamie Carragher and Steve ­Gerrard, local boys made great, have been ­jeopardised

Only Stephen Kelly – a ­realistic alternative at ­right-back to the ­self-­regarding Glen Johnson – is home grown.

The cracks in the wall of noise will not be noticeable today.

The coronation of King Kenny II will be a celebration of. Dalglish’s legend.

But it shouldn’t be seen as a one man show.

Liverpool’s problems are too acute, too fundamental, to be solved by three or four short-term purchases.

The new owners need to understand a football club, rather than a baseball ­franchise.

They cannot afford to ­repeat the heresies of their predecessors, who lacked credibility, sensitivity and integrity

They need to recalibrate, recruit wisely.

They need to listen to ­Merseyside’s Spanish ­contingent, who will give them the inside track on a celebrated compatriot.

Pep Guardiola has told them he wants to come to England, when the time is right, and his work at ­Barcelona is complete.

He is a principled man, a visionary.

He could just be the new Shankly!

You are certainly a wum and a troll. Not terribly bright either, but you have focus at least. That focus appears to a burning hatred for Rafa (tethered to a bizzare man love to the thickest chump and worst signing rafa ever made: robbie keane).

Snide, snide, chip chip. Gurrier troll all the way.

Offline bravarado7

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #566 on: March 11, 2012, 06:37:02 AM »
Henderson is the right player signed at the wrong stage of his development for the wrong price and for the wrong position.

The club should haev swooped for him 3-4 seasons ago at a much lower price and developed him in the reserves and on loan. And then use him as a central midfielder.

As a current first team player however the way he is right now, he is not ready to be in our first team.
if you honestly think we could have bought him here 3-4 years back and got him to this level given our recent handling of academy players and their promotion to the first team then i doubt it. Pacheco and now shelvey. Chances are impoosible to come by and when they do, miracles are expected out of them.
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Offline subroc

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #567 on: March 11, 2012, 06:43:55 AM »
if you honestly think we could have bought him here 3-4 years back and got him to this level given our recent handling of academy players and their promotion to the first team then i doubt it. Pacheco and now shelvey. Chances are impoosible to come by and when they do, miracles are expected out of them.

I am not sure why Pacheco and Shelvey should show that our academy is pporly handled. Pacheco is not exactly pulling up sticks at his new Spanish club. Shelvey ahs had his chances to play, shown promise and he was recalled because of the injury to Lucas. He will get his chances. Cream will rise to the surface - and there will be many promising kids who will prove not to be good enough. There have been very few youth players who did not make the grade at Melwood and then gone on to be a big success elsewhere. If Henderson were good enough, he would have emerged eventually in the first team like Kelly and Flanagan and Robinson.

Offline TommyT1995

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #568 on: March 11, 2012, 06:45:42 AM »
The way he's performed this season doesn't show many signs of him becoming a 'great' player. His best attributes are his engine and his instinctiveness when reacting to a loose ball or receiving quickly. Confidence is the key here because when he gets the ball; you don't feel as though anything will happen. Same could be said of Lucas back in the day, so if we stand behind our player then he'll literally become a new better player.

We need to give Hendo a chance... Just like many are starting to give Downing who is looking more efficient (The last 3 games anyway).
Keep it simple.

Offline Borninbethlehem

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #569 on: March 11, 2012, 06:46:38 AM »
A good and very promising player who's confidence will slowly be destroyed by a manager playing him out if position all the time.

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #570 on: March 11, 2012, 06:47:55 AM »
A good and very promising player who's confidence will slowly be destroyed by a manager playing him out if position all the time.

He played RM for Sunderland all the time so he's no stranger to playing there.  Problem is with the requirements of the position at Liverpool and the requirement at Sunderland and the gap is vast and so far Henderson has struggled to bridge it. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #571 on: March 11, 2012, 07:16:03 AM »
His ball retention and control is a lot better than Adam's thats for sure but Henderson seems to shirk away from responsibility while Adam for all his failings at least attempts the killer ball no matter how ill advised it may be.  Combine the two sets of attributes and you'll have a player.  Unfortunately we cannot do that and at the moment neither is sufficient. 

Nowhere near as consistently and frequently as he ought to to be honest.  Especially in the final third where we have lacked productivity all season.  His ball retention is quite good but he does precious little at the moment apart from retaining it. 

Yeah so why play him higher up the pitch when our ball retention in CM is quite poor? He is still relatively young so the inconsistencies in his game are expected, playing him so much however wasn't expected

Offline subroc

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #572 on: March 11, 2012, 07:23:04 AM »
Yeah so why play him higher up the pitch when our ball retention in CM is quite poor? He is still relatively young so the inconsistencies in his game are expected, playing him so much however wasn't expected

Ball retention is not the problem. Movement is, and specifically movement off the ball in the last third of the pitch. At least Henderson moves to some degree. Adam does not, Downing does not. Kuyt definitely does and so does Suarez.  Carroll is relatively immobile. It must be enjoyable to be a defneder defending against us.

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #573 on: March 11, 2012, 07:27:27 AM »
Yeah so why play him higher up the pitch when our ball retention in CM is quite poor? He is still relatively young so the inconsistencies in his game are expected, playing him so much however wasn't expected

I don't have an answer to your question to be honest.  He may retain the ball but he doesn't provide any thrust.  Adam provides thrust at least with his attempts to go forward.  Maybe that is the rationale behind it, I cannot be sure.  However I believe it is because he was bought for a different role.  One where he is an attacking player from the right cutting in and letting Johnson bomb on as Downing puts in cross after cross.  None of that has worked. 

As for the inconsistencies in his game they are to be expected I agree but I guess when there are so many inconsistencies they become the pattern if that makes any sense.  And to be honest, I did expect him to start a bulk of the games and Adam as well.  I thought Spearing would get the knock and given Gerrard's injury problems I always thought Adam and Henderson would both get a large amount of games.  Henderson was bought to replace Meireles IMO and that is what he is doing except nowhere near as well.
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline subroc

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #574 on: March 11, 2012, 07:30:10 AM »
I don't have an answer to your question to be honest.  He may retain the ball but he doesn't provide any thrust.  Adam provides thrust at least with his attempts to go forward.  Maybe that is the rationale behind it, I cannot be sure.  However I believe it is because he was bought for a different role.  One where he is an attacking player from the right cutting in and letting Johnson bomb on as Downing puts in cross after cross.  None of that has worked. 

As for the inconsistencies in his game they are to be expected I agree but I guess when there are so many inconsistencies they become the pattern if that makes any sense.  And to be honest, I did expect him to start a bulk of the games and Adam as well.  I thought Spearing would get the knock and given Gerrard's injury problems I always thought Adam and Henderson would both get a large amount of games.  Henderson was bought to replace Meireles IMO and that is what he is doing except nowhere near as well.

Adam's runs iwth the ball usually fail because he does not have the awarenes of other players to free them up. Adam and Henderson are the wrong players for the roles that we have in our team - Adam is just wrong period, while Henderson is not ready to play there but may be ready eventually. We need quick, intelligent constantly moving players to interpass iwth each other and run off each other. This does not seem to be a common quality with British players and United usually hoovers most of them who do play like that up.

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #575 on: March 11, 2012, 07:32:05 AM »
Adam's runs iwth the ball usually fail because he does not have the awarenes of other players to free them up. Adam and Henderson are the wrong players for the roles that we have in our team - Adam is just wrong period, while Henderson is not ready to play there but may be ready eventually. We need quick, intelligent constantly moving players to interpass iwth each other and run off each other. This does not seem to be a common quality with British players and United usually hoovers most of them who do play like that up.

Not a big fan of Adam either.  Just trying to rationalise why he may be starting in the middle.  He has too many blindspots for a playmaker of the quality we require. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline subroc

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #576 on: March 11, 2012, 07:35:11 AM »
Not a big fan of Adam either.  Just trying to rationalise why he may be starting in the middle.  He has too many blindspots for a playmaker of the quality we require.

Yet another reason why the transfer plans of dalglish-Clarke-Comolli and the way they set the team up to play do not add up.

Offline wheresnemeth

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #577 on: March 11, 2012, 07:53:33 AM »
Henderson is the right player signed at the wrong stage of his development for the wrong price and for the wrong position.

The club should haev swooped for him 3-4 seasons ago at a much lower price and developed him in the reserves and on loan. And then use him as a central midfielder.

As a current first team player however the way he is right now, he is not ready to be in our first team.

I doubt that as a reserve player that he would have made the side at this age. He definitely would have played less games. He looks to have great potential at cm it's a pity that Adam gets played in that position ahead of him.
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Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #578 on: March 11, 2012, 07:58:02 AM »
Yet another reason why the transfer plans of dalglish-Clarke-Comolli and the way they set the team up to play do not add up.

I think its more misjudgment than anything.  I think Adam when given time and space to lift his head up can hit a decent pass.  But he simply doesn't get enough of it and without two men to pick up his slack he struggles.  No surprise that he looked much better when he had both Lucas and Henderson covering him but that again I believe is an alternate plan because I'm absolutely convinced Henderson was bought to line up on the right side of midfield. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline subroc

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #579 on: March 11, 2012, 08:00:37 AM »
I think its more misjudgment than anything.  I think Adam when given time and space to lift his head up can hit a decent pass.  But he simply doesn't get enough of it and without two men to pick up his slack he struggles.  No surprise that he looked much better when he had both Lucas and Henderson covering him but that again I believe is an alternate plan because I'm absolutely convinced Henderson was bought to line up on the right side of midfield.

Adam is the wrong man for the job because as his former manager pointd out, his stock in trade is the long pass. His short passing game is average and blighted by lack o finstant and contnuous awareness of the rest of the team that a good playmaker must have.

If Henderson was lined up for the right, it was the wrong move. The money woul dhave been better spent towards a genuinely pacey flank MF who is able to dribble as well as do all the things Henderson was supposed to be able to do - a MF like Eriksen or Lucas Moura.

Offline Indian Scouser

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #580 on: March 11, 2012, 08:36:36 AM »
His ball retention and control is a lot better than Adam's thats for sure but Henderson seems to shirk away from responsibility while Adam for all his failings at least attempts the killer ball no matter how ill advised it may be.  Combine the two sets of attributes and you'll have a player. Unfortunately we cannot do that and at the moment neither is sufficient. 

Nowhere near as consistently and frequently as he ought to to be honest.  Especially in the final third where we have lacked productivity all season.  His ball retention is quite good but he does precious little at the moment apart from retaining it.

And that player is Shelvey, IMO.
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Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #581 on: March 11, 2012, 08:38:32 AM »
Adam is the wrong man for the job because as his former manager pointd out, his stock in trade is the long pass. His short passing game is average and blighted by lack o finstant and contnuous awareness of the rest of the team that a good playmaker must have.

If Henderson was lined up for the right, it was the wrong move. The money woul dhave been better spent towards a genuinely pacey flank MF who is able to dribble as well as do all the things Henderson was supposed to be able to do - a MF like Eriksen or Lucas Moura.

I have no reason to believe other wise subroc.  I think the first few games revealed Kenny's plan A with the exception of Gerrard's absence and the return to that formation soon after Carroll's slight resurgence at least made it abundantly clear to me that this was Kenny's plan A. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #582 on: March 11, 2012, 08:40:08 AM »
And that player is Shelvey, IMO.

Shelvey has talent but he also has inconsistencies.  Don't think we could do any worse than give him a run though.  Certainly given how poor Adam has been off late.
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #583 on: March 11, 2012, 08:42:25 AM »
Anyone with a football brain can see Jordan is going to be massive they should also check the age and experience of Raul the Chelsea boy and remember but for a purple patch he wasn't really that good and we seem to keep beating the team he is in now!

I reckon some of you think pixels are real life enjoy your day I will.
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Offline new-red

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #584 on: March 11, 2012, 08:44:35 AM »
Fordy, honest question:

What young players in the past made you believe they had the requisite potential, and then fulfilled it?

Gerrard doesn't count.

You slated Lucas, big up Adam, and Slate Henderson. If you were going for opposites, you are batting 1000.

If Henderson is played in his natural position he will become a very good player. He has a good game every time he plays in the center. When he plays out wide, he turns to shit. It is very simply how he should be handled and nurtured.
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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #585 on: March 11, 2012, 08:45:20 AM »
Its not just that Lucas was once young and rounded upon by the wolves and that he was accused of exactly the same things that makes the situations similar.

It really is deja vu and yet people evidently haven't learned from the Lucas situation. And whilst there are aspects of Lucas' and Henderson's game that are similar and Henderson is getting criticised for the very things Lucas was criticised for when he first arrived, it happens to virtually all players that come in and aren't brilliant straight away. I get worried about our youth players for when they eventually start getting first team games and don't play well and make mistakes. It's happened to other players in recent years.
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Offline new-red

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #586 on: March 11, 2012, 08:48:18 AM »
It really is deja vu and yet people evidently haven't learned from the Lucas situation. And whilst there are aspects of Lucas' and Henderson's game that are similar and Henderson is getting criticised for the very things Lucas was criticised for when he first arrived, it happens to virtually all players that come in and aren't brilliant straight away. I get worried about our youth players for when they eventually start getting first team games and don't play well and make mistakes. It's happened to other players in recent years.

When we are proven right once again, I am just gonna laugh.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #587 on: March 11, 2012, 08:49:50 AM »
It really is deja vu and yet people evidently haven't learned from the Lucas situation. And whilst there are aspects of Lucas' and Henderson's game that are similar and Henderson is getting criticised for the very things Lucas was criticised for when he first arrived, it happens to virtually all players that come in and aren't brilliant straight away. I get worried about our youth players for when they eventually start getting first team games and don't play well and make mistakes. It's happened to other players in recent years.

This  but may be too logical for some right now!
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Offline Indian Scouser

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #588 on: March 11, 2012, 08:50:28 AM »
Shelvey has talent but he also has inconsistencies.  Don't think we could do any worse than give him a run though.  Certainly given how poor Adam has been off late.

I agree. The only way he can become more consistent is by getting a run of games. I like the look of Henderson a lot, but if we're looking for some creativity, Shelvey might be a better option. Ideally, if Gerrard is unfit, I'd like to see a midfield of Spearing, Henderson and Shelvey with Shelvey playing the furthest forward.
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Offline Indian Scouser

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #589 on: March 11, 2012, 08:52:50 AM »
When we are proven right once again, I am just gonna laugh.

You won't be laughing for long, as by then the next scapegoat will have been found. ;)
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Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #590 on: March 11, 2012, 08:53:16 AM »
It really is deja vu and yet people evidently haven't learned from the Lucas situation. And whilst there are aspects of Lucas' and Henderson's game that are similar and Henderson is getting criticised for the very things Lucas was criticised for when he first arrived, it happens to virtually all players that come in and aren't brilliant straight away. I get worried about our youth players for when they eventually start getting first team games and don't play well and make mistakes. It's happened to other players in recent years.

They play in different positions though. Lucas announced himself as a volante if I remember the right term i.e. the midfielder who played alongside the defensive midfielder and circulated possession apart from helping out with the defensive side of things.  Soon after he went on to become a full defensive midfielder and given his role in the team and the importance of keeping possession, I think defence of Lucas is well justified.  Henderson plays a far more advanced role and if he is being groomed to play Lucas's role in a few years fair enough but I doubt that is the case.  His tackling has never been that strong and he seems to have been bought to play out wide.  And we need a completely different skill set out wide and circulating possession in a position where we need attacking thrust from is not sufficient and so if people criticise him for playing the safe pass and keeping the ball it is because more is expected from the position he plays in.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #591 on: March 11, 2012, 08:56:48 AM »
Shelvey does need more games but instead of who? He isn't a CM jordan is better there , Jonjo is more like Gerrard than Alonso so were is he going To play in our formations?
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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #592 on: March 11, 2012, 09:02:43 AM »
When we are proven right once again, I am just gonna laugh.

Like you, I really think he'll be a very good player for us. But even if he doesn't, I hope that he's given the opportunity to do so here instead of shipped out at the earliest opportunity (ala Insua). People wanted that with Lucas as well and it should be obvious that they're doing the same bloody thing right now with Henderson. Instead the same criticisms are being made - 'he's a shithouse, he can't tackle, he's hiding, I don't know what he does, he doesn't have many goals or assists, he passes sideways too much - but yeah, just because Lucas turned out well, it doesn't mean Henderson will or more accurately:

I got the Lucas thing wrong.

Will be right on Henderson though.
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Offline Indian Scouser

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #593 on: March 11, 2012, 09:06:25 AM »
Shelvey does need more games but instead of who? He isn't a CM jordan is better there , Jonjo is more like Gerrard than Alonso so were is he going To play in our formations?

You're right in that Jonjo is more like Gerrard than anyone else. That's why I think he should have played in Gerrard's absence in a more advanced role. Henderson I thing is very good at the role that Adam's currently doing. Gerrard's injury was an opportunity to give Shelvey a chance, and to see what he can do. Henderson and Shelvey, alongside Lucas, could be our main midfield 3 in a couple of years time and it would have been good to see them play together.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #594 on: March 11, 2012, 09:11:43 AM »
Thing is we know given what Stevie is  that no one player can replace him so for me you are right and the combination of Jonjo and Jordan is that eventual replacement , Henderson needs to play instead of Adam but if Stevie is fit that still leaves Jonjo on the bench for now!
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Offline lachesis

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #595 on: March 11, 2012, 09:20:19 AM »
I don't know where the perception that Meireles was great in the wide positions comes from. He really wasn't. I would agree he was better than Henderson in being noticed out there or occasionally drifting in (see Utrecht away as an example).

Basically Meireles playing were Henderson is was a mistake and it stood out like a sore thumb. The times we experimented with Lucas on the left wing was again a disaster despite him being our most important midfielder.

From what I understand he was flung out wide at Sunderland because the assumption was that his corners showed he could swing a ball in and Sunderland were under the assumption he was a defensive midfielder. Henderson has the raw technical ability but he needs a manager who uses him right. A Lucas/Henderson partnership could bear many fruits. Lucas has the experience to help Jordan through the shit slinging and offer his advice on how to cope. Also, Lucas has always looke more dynamic where he has been able to alternate breaking forward then tracking back which I feel is what could be a real strength of a Lucas/Henderson midfield.

Thing is we know given what Stevie is  that no one player can replace him so for me you are right and the combination of Jonjo and Jordan is that eventual replacement , Henderson needs to play instead of Adam but if Stevie is fit that still leaves Jonjo on the bench for now!

I think the honest truth is that there is no place for Gerrard in the team now naturally. Obviously I think for the time being he needs to go back into the hole position with Suarez out wide, but after this season I think it's time to run with Suarez being our main creative threat in there.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 09:23:12 AM by lachesis »

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #596 on: March 11, 2012, 09:25:02 AM »
They play in different positions though. Lucas announced himself as a volante if I remember the right term i.e. the midfielder who played alongside the defensive midfielder and circulated possession apart from helping out with the defensive side of things.  Soon after he went on to become a full defensive midfielder and given his role in the team and the importance of keeping possession, I think defence of Lucas is well justified.

Right, but the criticisms are still very similar. Those who didn't think he was good enough, didn't think he was good enough as a footballer, regardless of whether he was a volante or an all out DM. I still think we're not using Lucas in a way that maximises his full potential but that's for another thread.

Henderson plays a far more advanced role and if he is being groomed to play Lucas's role in a few years fair enough but I doubt that is the case.  His tackling has never been that strong and he seems to have been bought to play out wide.  And we need a completely different skill set out wide and circulating possession in a position where we need attacking thrust from is not sufficient and so if people criticise him for playing the safe pass and keeping the ball it is because more is expected from the position he plays in.

I highly doubt he is being groomed to play Lucas' role but it doesn't mean that they don't share certain attributes that make them similar. Like some others have said, I think he'll eventually be a central midfielder (though I can see certain reasons why he's being played out wide) and that's where players with him and Lucas' ability to retain possession and keep the ball moving is best utilised. The more players we have like the better, it'll allow us to consistently get more of a grip on the game than we have done and it'll give our front players more opportunities.

Your argument about him playing out wide I can see but bear in mind that that's not what some people are saying, they're saying he's a shithouse, they don't know what he does, he hides, he's not good enough etc as opposed to saying what he's not particularly suited out wide. If he has to play there, then you're right, though he has a lot of energy, he's not traditionally going to being a winger but we can do things to help him - our midfield is quite slow in moving the ball and if we can speed that up and find him early and in space, he does have the ability to put a cross in (better than most other players in our team) but also link up with his team mates but yeah, there are some problems with him being on the right - namely he not going to do what Downing (or at least what he was bought to do) or Suarez do and take people on and drive at people. Still, that's a completely different thing in comparison with what his critics are saying.
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Offline Ryan M

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #597 on: March 11, 2012, 09:38:42 AM »
He will come good eventually but at the moment I see him in a similar position to Lucas when he first signed. Currently he should be used as a squad player, however his fee seems to have elevated him to a first team regular, which is wrong.

Also if we hope for him to develop in centre minefield, then that's where he should play as often as he can. I don't mind the odd game out wide but he seems to be the first choice right midfielder.

Give him time and he will come good, but the club needs to help him develop.

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #598 on: March 11, 2012, 09:41:13 AM »
Well, interesting debate about Lucas and Henderson. But really both have different circumstances.

The similarities are clear, both were relatively younger( not necessary young but relatively compared with other players), both got to play many matches and yet the team form was poor, so clearly both Lucas(of past) and Henderson(of today) are part of the problem. There should be no argument on this point.

But the difference is big as well, Lucas was really playing to the injuries and we had really no options on the bench. Now Henderson, he is starting every next match despite the likes of Maxi, Shevley on the bench and not given a chance at all. This is the main concern. How did Henderson getting a chance to perform over the likes of them, is it only because of the price tag?

And like it or not, patience is not a word in football. Everyone in football is associated with short term memory, and if we continue to perform like this and saying it is only a matter of time before the young player start showing their class. We will be no different from Arsenal and eventually losing our key players(just like how we lost Torres, we can lose Suarez, Reina) sooner than later as if we are consistently finishing below 4th spot. Any thoughts????

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #599 on: March 11, 2012, 09:46:41 AM »
Thing is we know given what Stevie is  that no one player can replace him so for me you are right and the combination of Jonjo and Jordan is that eventual replacement , Henderson needs to play instead of Adam but if Stevie is fit that still leaves Jonjo on the bench for now!

Why can't Gerrard play off right hand side of lone striker? and Suarez left? then play Jonjo, Spearing and Henderson in middle. not only would this help us keep Gerrard in final third where he is at his best it stop him trying to do everything.
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