Topic: Jordan Henderson

[penga]

Not too concerned about that particular point, none of them can IMO and since that's lifted from the Spearing thread, it's why I highlighted him. For what it's worth, he's better at that role than some of the others but that's not saying much. My point was in response to your post where you seem to have either got me confused with someone else, misremembered or worse just plain lied. Whatever it is, what you said was untrue.

Ye I seen an earlier post of yours now, must have got you confused with someone else. You're basically agreeing with me to an extent that he should be kept for the odd game.

[Carolina Red]

Comparing his stats to Lucas when he has spent most if the season on the right is pointless  and more than that it makes no sense at all.  Would be more interesting to compare his stats to Kuyt when he has plyed on the right.  Or only show the stats for when Hendrson has actually played the holding role (even though this would be a small sample)

This is Henderson's THIRD FULL SEASON in the Premier League, hardly comparable to Lucas who was a squad player back then.

Fact is Henderson's defensive stats are poor, he's below average in % tackles attempted/won, possession duels won, % aeriel duels won.

Dembele at Fulham (!) went around him like he was an orange practice cone all night on Tuesday. He was hardly a defensive presence on Saturday either.

Everyone who says "Lucas came good" should also remember that for every Lucas, there are many, many others who didn't.

[gregorio]

I think the fact that Henderson's best performance all season was at right back speaks volumes, no?

It's a good point you make, what it showed to me that he is prepared to adapt to help out his teammates and he does have the guts for a fight

[RedPat]

I dont post much but have to air my opinion on Henderson,he is simply not good enough and never will be.

[Andy]

This is Henderson's THIRD FULL SEASON in the Premier League...

wow, massive sense of deja vu.

like i said last night - he's 21, he's in his first season for a very different club, he's been played in a position which wasn't ideal for him (right mid)... you get the picture.

Fact is Henderson's defensive stats are poor, he's below average in % tackles attempted/won, possession duels won, % aeriel duels won.

fact is, look at the stats of other players - like glen johnston as i mentioned before. want rid of johnston as well?

[YoungKopite]

I love Hendo.

He'll be amazing for us in a season or two. He shows heart and determination in every game, is never afraid of taking risks and has bags full of potential. I really think being played so much this season will benefit him in the long term. Great signing.

[Lucas DuoFlush]

Two aspects which would improve his game exponentially in the short term - intense training in:

Dribbling ability (we've seen Andy move on leaps and bounds)
Strength

With these he'll be able to carry the ball from the back like Stevie does and make positive attacking play. In the long term:

Better reading of the game
Better ability to play the right ball, especially in regards to Alonso-esque playmaking.

I think he has the potential to be great but its all about how the coaches mould him and being given fewer appearances and less pressure.

[Carolina Red]

wow, massive sense of deja vu.

like i said last night - he's 21, he's in his first season for a very different club, he's been played in a position which wasn't ideal for him (right mid)... you get the picture.

fact is, look at the stats of other players - like glen johnston as i mentioned before. want rid of johnston as well?

So he was bought as a right winger (where he's played his whole career), but was crap, then moved to the center, where he's been anonymous, and now needs to be moved from being an attacking player to being a defensive mid, when his defensive abilities are the weakest part of his game.

It's amazing how far fans are willing to go to accomodate certain players.

Like I said before, do you really think Fergusson's boot licking lackey Steve Bruce decided to sell a future English star to Liverpool instead of to United? United swooped in and bought Young and Jones after Liverpool made bids... wonder why they didn't try and get Henderson....

[Fordy]

wow, massive sense of deja vu.

like i said last night - he's 21, he's in his first season for a very different club, he's been played in a position which wasn't ideal for him (right mid)... you get the picture.

fact is, look at the stats of other players - like glen johnston as i mentioned before. want rid of johnston as well?

You're not making very good points though.

It's Henderson's 3 full season in the PL - he is English - He has no excuses.

But you carry on defending him when most realise he isn't good enough to be a 1st teamer at Liverpool FC - Squad player maybe - 1st teamer no way.

[Andy]

So he was bought as a right winger (where he's played his whole career), but was crap, then moved to the center, where he's been anonymous, and now needs to be moved from being an attacking player to being a defensive mid, when his defensive abilities are the weakest part of his game.

It's amazing how far fans are willing to go to accomodate certain players.

Like I said before, do you really think Fergusson's boot licking lackey Steve Bruce decided to sell a future English star to Liverpool instead of to United? United swooped in and bought Young and Jones after Liverpool made bids... wonder why they didn't try and get Henderson....

he didn't play his whole career on the right wing at sunderland, he started on the right as he was introduced into the team then moved into the centre. he played centre mid on his appearance for england, so capello obviously considered him a central midfielder.

if he was crap, why the fuck would bruce continue to play him, capello play him for england, kenny agree to buy him...

conversely, i think it amazing that people are determined to be down on certain players despite their ability.

Like i said before... well, just read my reply from last night.

[gregorio]

I love Hendo.

He'll be amazing for us in a season or two. He shows heart and determination in every game, is never afraid of taking risks and has bags full of potential. I really think being played so much this season will benefit him in the long term. Great signing.

good for you lad

[Andy]

But you carry on defending him when most realise he isn't good enough to be a 1st teamer at Liverpool FC - Squad player maybe - 1st teamer no way.

i just don't believe that. unless you know most of our fans?

i'll defend him because i believe he has the ability to be a great player for us, and the arguments people use for dissing him are nonsensical. i don't just support players blindly  - spearing for example, i don't think he is good enough despite his passion and the effort he puts in. but henderson has got the ability in my opinion, so i'll support him (against our own fans).

[Carolina Red]

he didn't play his whole career on the right wing at sunderland, he started on the right as he was introduced into the team then moved into the centre. he played centre mid on his appearance for england, so capello obviously considered him a central midfielder.

if he was crap, why the fuck would bruce continue to play him, capello play him for england, kenny agree to buy him...

conversely, i think it amazing that people are determined to be down on certain players despite their ability.

Like i said before... well, just read my reply from last night.

Sorry but played almost his entire career at Sunderland on the right midfield.

He was bought to play right midfield at Liverpool, and that's where he was played most of the season.

Your "appeal to authority" argument cuts both ways. "Kenny wouldn't have bought him if he wasn't good" well Kenny bought Downing... He must be good, Capello selected him to play center mid for England" well Capello selected him ONCE in a meaningless friendly in 2010, and didn't ever select him again.

I know we disagree, but respectfully ask your opinion one more time: if Steve Bruce thought Henderson was a future star, why did he sell to Liverpool and not to United?

[gregorio]

Sorry but played almost his entire career at Sunderland on the right midfield.

He was bought to play right midfield at Liverpool, and that's where he was played most of the season.

Your "appeal to authority" argument cuts both ways. "Kenny wouldn't have bought him if he wasn't good" well Kenny bought Downing... He must be good, Capello selected him to play center mid for England" well Capello selected him ONCE in a meaningless friendly in 2010, and didn't ever select him again.

I know we disagree, but respectfully ask your opinion one more time: if Steve Bruce thought Henderson was a future star, why did he sell to Liverpool and not to United?

Cos the Hard Shoulder Shitter has lost his touch for identifying good young talent and passed him over

[B0151?]

You're not making very good points though.

It's Henderson's 3 full season in the PL - he is English - He has no excuses.

and his first 2 seasons he got young player of the year for sunderland
what is your point?
he's had a bad first season playing mostly out of position for a team that hasn't been playing well?
well, fuck lad why the fuck hasn't he had an amazing season with that in mind, i'm astonished. the fact he's been playing regularly in the prem since he was 18 speaks volumes about the quality he does have.

[MassDriver]

and his first 2 seasons he got young player of the year for sunderland
what is your point?
he's had a bad first season playing mostly out of position for a team that hasn't been playing well?
well, fuck lad why the fuck hasn't he had an amazing season with that in mind, i'm astonished. the fact he's been playing regularly in the prem since he was 18 speaks volumes about the quality he does have.

 

How the fuck is he playing out of position when most of his games at Sunderland were as a Right Midfielder(not necessarily a winger)? Does repeating the same fallacy again and fucking again make it true?

[Carolina Red]

Cos the Hard Shoulder Shitter has lost his touch for identifying good young talent and passed him over

But last summer United swooped in and bought Young and Jones out from under Liverpool, why not Henderson?

[helmboy_nige]

But last summer United swooped in and bought Young and Jones out from under Liverpool, why not Henderson?

Cause they had the greatest player of all time 'Cleverley' coming through.

 

[gregorio]

But last summer United swooped in and bought Young and Jones out from under Liverpool, why not Henderson?

Let's wait & see how the three of them are progressing in a few seasons time

[B0151?]

How the fuck is he playing out of position when most of his games at Sunderland were as a Right Midfielder(not necessarily a winger)? Does repeating the same fallacy again and fucking again make it true?

and he's been getting played as a winger here

don't you dare swear at me lad, especially when you're the one chatting shit. sunderland weren't mostly played as a right midfielder at all, he was played as a versatile fella he could play anywhere across the midfield. when we bought him ye dope everyone was saying he was a centre mid and he could do a job as a right midfielder but his best position was centre mid. hence he's been getting played out of position


"Jordan Henderson is a very versatile footballer who can play anywhere across the midfield but there is no doubt that his best position is in the center. He was bought by the club to be a central midfielder of the future and probably to become Steven Gerrard's eventual long-term replacement."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/727692-liverpool-fc-does-the-arrival-of-jordan-henderson-return-gerrard-to-the-wing
JUNE 8th 2011

and dozens of other articles saying that right midfield isn't his preferred position.
why the fuck would they make that up ey lad? before he'd even played a game as a right mid here?
i think you're the one making shit up, it hasn't come from nowhere. centre mid is his best position and his most favoured position, therefore he's been getting played out of position 

[SpartanTree. No deccies or lights.]

But last summer United swooped in and bought Young and Jones out from under Liverpool, why not Henderson?

Not sure they made a bid but pretty sure I heard/read a Steve Bruce interview about Fergie being interested in Hendo & the likely transfer fee.

[Fordy]

and he's been getting played as a winger here

don't you dare swear at me lad, especially when you're the one chatting shit. sunderland weren't mostly played as a right midfielder at all, he was played as a versatile fella he could play anywhere across the midfield. when we bought him ye dope everyone was saying he was a centre mid and he could do a job as a right midfielder but his best position was centre mid. hence he's been getting played out of position


"Jordan Henderson is a very versatile footballer who can play anywhere across the midfield but there is no doubt that his best position is in the center. He was bought by the club to be a central midfielder of the future and probably to become Steven Gerrard's eventual long-term replacement."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/727692-liverpool-fc-does-the-arrival-of-jordan-henderson-return-gerrard-to-the-wing
JUNE 8th 2011

and dozens of other articles saying that right midfield isn't his preferred position.
why the fuck would they make that up ey lad? before he'd even played a game as a right mid here?
i think you're the one making shit up, it hasn't come from nowhere. centre mid is his best position and his most favoured position, therefore he's been getting played out of position 

You clearly haven't followed his career.

He played mainly on the Right for Sunderland.

As for your earlier post - young player of the year twice at Sunderland - He should be winning bloody player of the year there.  Sunderland not blessed with great youth talent.

Oh and being from Sunderland I am sure helped him win a few awards.

So do you really think he is good enough for Liverpool FC? Really?

[MassDriver]

and he's been getting played as a winger here

don't you dare swear at me lad, especially when you're the one chatting shit. sunderland weren't mostly played as a right midfielder at all, he was played as a versatile fella he could play anywhere across the midfield. when we bought him ye dope everyone was saying he was a centre mid and he could do a job as a right midfielder but his best position was centre mid. hence he's been getting played out of position


"Jordan Henderson is a very versatile footballer who can play anywhere across the midfield but there is no doubt that his best position is in the center. He was bought by the club to be a central midfielder of the future and probably to become Steven Gerrard's eventual long-term replacement."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/727692-liverpool-fc-does-the-arrival-of-jordan-henderson-return-gerrard-to-the-wing
JUNE 8th 2011

and dozens of other articles saying that right midfield isn't his preferred position.
why the fuck would they make that up ey lad? before he'd even played a game as a right mid here?
i think you're the one making shit up, it hasn't come from nowhere. centre mid is his best position and his most favoured position, therefore he's been getting played out of position 

Fuck me , an article from Bleacherreport.com without any quotes is all you got?   

Thats sorted.

If you'd made the effort to do some research on his time at Sunderland , you'd have known he played a majority of his games as a Right midfielder interspersed with some games as a CM, games in which he was basically overrun.

[Andy]

I know we disagree, but respectfully ask your opinion one more time: if Steve Bruce thought Henderson was a future star, why did he sell to Liverpool and not to United?

fair enough - obviously i don't know the definitive reason, but i imagine it is a combination of: fergie already having bought jones to supplement his squad and therefore not needing another central midfielder (they were already pretty strong for wingers/right midfielders); bruce didn't want to sell him to anyone; fergie might not have had any more money to spend, esp on a central midfielder if they were already strong in that department; bruce wouldn't necessarily "tip off" fergie just because he used to play for him; henderson may have preferred to join us for some reason and so it wasn't worth fergie bidding...

there are plenty of players that fergie/the mancs haven't gone anywhere near but that doesn't make them substandard players.

[Crouch Potato]

I love Hendo.

He'll be amazing for us in a season or two. He shows heart and determination in every game, is never afraid of taking risks and has bags full of potential. I really think being played so much this season will benefit him in the long term. Great signing.

Definitely have to disagree with you about not being afraid to take risks. The only time he plays the ball forward rather than sideways or back to defenders, is when the forward pass is an easy one.

[The G in Gerrard]

So do you really think he is good enough for Liverpool FC? Really?

Yes. Unless your a scout who can determine players careers by time they've reached their early twenties?

[Vidocq]

he was flop of the match

[Z e u s]

I feel sorry for Henderson as he is getting such a hard time by many of our supporters.  It is not his fault he cost £16 million.  It is also not his fault he has been played out of position most of the season.

But when used in centre midfield I think he has looked a good footballer and one that has many attributes to work with and I can see him getting better with age, experience and confidence... like Lucas did.

He is tall and good in the air, he has a good engine, has energy, can pass long or short and he can shoot (as he shows for the under 21s with England).

He is 21 and lots of our fans are already slating him and saying he is not good enough and never will be.  Probably the same fans that said the same about Lucas.

I have no problem with signing young talents like Henderson.  He is not the finished product yet, but I think he has a bright future if we are patient with him and don't suck all the confidence out of him like the dementors we can be at times.

I have far more issues with someone like Downing, who has peaked as a footballer, knows the league inside and out and has not delivered.

Henderson is work in progress and I think he will be a hit for us.

[Samee]

So do you really think he is good enough for Liverpool FC? Really?

Yes. He's better for Liverpool FC than Adam, that's for sure.

[B0151?]

Fuck me , an article from Bleacherreport.com without any quotes is all you got?   

Thats sorted.

If you'd made the effort to do some research on his time at Sunderland , you'd have known he played a majority of his games as a Right midfielder interspersed with some games as a CM, games in which he was basically overrun.

again you dopes are missing the point

his favourite position, and the best position he is best at, is centre midfield. HENCE HE IS GETTING PLAYED OUT OF POSITION. Gerrard used to play right mid for us quite a lot, he was quite good there but it doesn't detract from the fact he was getting played out of position

i'm not going to argue with people just making up things when even sunderland fans classed him as a centre mid

http://www.safcforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=77408&sid=af3edf6329337a88da64f3c24700855a#p77408

"I didn't want to lose the lad - one of the most instinctive and quick thinking central midfielders I've seen in years (youthful wise) but if you generate that potential then you are going to have the big boys watching and ultimately asking and bidding to buy."

but nope, you know his favourite position. of course, i forgot. forgot you and fordy watched every sunderland game in anticipation of him moving here. whereas sunderland fans who did, nope they don't count, you and fordy know best

just fuck off the both of yas if ye jus gonna chat shit

[MassDriver]

Yes. He's better for Liverpool FC than Adam, that's for sure.

Oh no he isn't. See what I did there? I put my opinion across as a fact.

[The G in Gerrard]

he was flop of the match

Bollocks. You didn't watch Downing then or Bellamy.

[Andy]

Oh no he isn't. See what I did there? I put my opinion across as a fact.

is it the first time?

[MassDriver]

is it the first time?

Nah , just following the lead here. Its the way of RAWK. 

[Andy]

I know we disagree, but respectfully ask your opinion one more time: if Steve Bruce thought Henderson was a future star, why did he sell to Liverpool and not to United?

...or maybe fergie would only offer a player swap, but sunderland wanted cash...

http://www.click-manchester.com/sport/manchester-united/1213108-manchester-united-target-swap-deal-for-sunderland-winger-jordan-henderson.html

[McSquared]

You're not making very good points though.

It's Henderson's 3 full season in the PL - he is English - He has no excuses.

But you carry on defending him when most realise he isn't good enough to be a 1st teamer at Liverpool FC - Squad player maybe - 1st teamer no way.

quite ironic considering your position on adam

[Carolina Red]

fair enough - obviously i don't know the definitive reason, but i imagine it is a combination of: Mr Alex Ferguson already having bought jones to supplement his squad and therefore not needing another central midfielder (they were already pretty strong for wingers/right midfielders); bruce didn't want to sell him to anyone; Mr Alex Ferguson might not have had any more money to spend, esp on a central midfielder if they were already strong in that department; bruce wouldn't necessarily "tip off" Mr Alex Ferguson just because he used to play for him; henderson may have preferred to join us for some reason and so it wasn't worth Mr Alex Ferguson bidding...

there are plenty of players that Mr Alex Ferguson/the mancs haven't gone anywhere near but that doesn't make them substandard players.

Well, Bruce and Fergusson have done numerous transfer dealings to help each other out (such as the sweatheart deal to take Brown and Oshea off United's books).

Jones is a DM/CB, don't think he and Henderson play the same position?

Also, Fergusson had to convince 57 year old Scholes to come back as they were so weak in center midfield.

That said, I agree none of us really "know" anything, just circumstantially speculating!

[Z e u s]

he was flop of the match

He was average yesterday.  Didn't do anything wrong, didn't do much to write home about either.

But Spearing who was at fault for both goals, Reina partly at fault for the first goal, Enrique partly at fault for the first goal and the coward Downing were all far worse.

The CM's job is to control the match and we did, even in the first half we had more possession than Chelsea, we just didn't get in their half as Suarez was isolated.

Once we got Suarez some support with Carroll, we looked the far better team.  Just a shame Gerrard wasn't pushed high alongside Suarez in the first half and he was so deep acting as another centre midfielder.  That cautious decision cost us IMO.

But Henderson was not the problem and if people can't see potential in him, then fair enough.  But I personally see lots of positive attributes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E7WBshsnJA

[Carolina Red]

...or maybe Mr Alex Ferguson would only offer a player swap, but sunderland wanted cash...

http://www.click-manchester.com/sport/manchester-united/1213108-manchester-united-target-swap-deal-for-sunderland-winger-jordan-henderson.html

Did Ferguson only offer no-cash, swap-only deals for Young and Jones?

Didn't United sell those two players to Sunderland anyways?

Does that article describe Henderson as a WINGER??? 

[Fordy]

quite ironic considering your position on adam

Not really. Clearly stated a million times that Adam is a squad player.

This is a Henderson thread anyway.