Author Topic: Jordan Henderson  (Read 341435 times)

Offline Rohit

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #320 on: March 10, 2012, 06:18:08 PM »
You are fucking embarrassing.

Irony is he'll be like a lion on the hunt for anyone that has a bad word to say about adam.

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #321 on: March 10, 2012, 06:18:28 PM »
He really, and truly does not.

Sorry but stats would prove otherwise.

It's not a Adam or Lucas thread is it?

Henderson is could at keeping it simple. long term he could be a DM and for me that's where I would play him however the problem is that he is a shithouse.


Offline IndianaRed

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #322 on: March 10, 2012, 06:19:46 PM »
I think Henderson is a good player who isn't really playing well at the moment, but I think would play better if he was played in the middle.  I think he makes good runs, is a better crosser of the ball than Downing and Adam, and can play pass-and-move if our team was actually trying to play that way.  But we aren't really using him in a useful or meaningful way.  Right now he's just another guy to fill out the 11 on the pitch.  We could get more out of him if we were willing to... but right now he's just a body on the pitch.

Offline Trotterwatch

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #323 on: March 10, 2012, 06:20:24 PM »
Got to play centre mid or not at all to be honest. 

Offline Aristotle

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #324 on: March 10, 2012, 06:20:50 PM »
And for all this talk about him being a young player "who is improving". You what??

The only excellent performance he's put in this season was against Bolton in August. Since then he's teetered between absolutey awful, to totally anonymous, to not bad, to ok then back again.

Well he had arguably the best performance for Liverpool when he came on for Lucas against the Mancs.

Sorry but stats would prove otherwise.

It's not a Adam or Lucas thread is it?

Henderson is could at keeping it simple. long term he could be a DM and for me that's where I would play him however the problem is that he is a shithouse.


See I would normally agree with it. But the problem is that you don't actually apply stats. You pick stats out when they suit you and say they prove your point. But when they go against your opinions stats don't mean anything. Wonderful how that works
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Offline Brentieke

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #325 on: March 10, 2012, 06:20:52 PM »
Jordan Henderson has been compared to Xavi, Gerrard and Lampard on RAWK and the ones that don't see it are the ones said to be pathetic.

What a joke.
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Offline Hazell

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #326 on: March 10, 2012, 06:21:31 PM »
Henderson is shocking mate. Don't care how young.

It's difficult to reason with someone who starts from such an extreme point of view and doesn't even consider the alternative but I'll respond in due course.

The Hensonson v Lucas situation is totally different.

No, it's similar, see the first line of your post and compare it to your previous feeling about Lucas.

It's funny how you have your favourites all the time.

I don't have 'favourites'. I have a preference of a certain type of players who I think we could benefit from but I don't have 'favourites' in the context of what you mean.

So tell us what you really think - do you think Henderson is good enough for Liverpool? Do you think he ever will be good enough for us? Do you think we paid way too much for him? Do you think he is a shithouse?

Henderson is dirk kuyt without the class or ability. Just runs.

Henderson has the potential to be a player who could fit into a Liverpool side challenging for trophies and titles. At present, he needs to improve as he's sometimes on the periphery of the game - playing on the right doesn't help IMO, I'd prefer him in the centre out of all the options we have, he's one the best CM's we have fit - but he needs to be a bit more aggressive and decisive. I do think he needs similar players around him as he likes to move the ball quickly and then move into an area to receive it but certain players we have don't play in that way and as a result he sometimes looks out of place. Again, playing in CM that way would help him but he doesn't and he can' t play without a DM beside him (not yet anyway). I do think he has a lot of energy which would suit a more aggressive game but all these attributes he has don't necessarily correlate with other members of the team and as result we look disjointed - we have players who play different types of games and it means inconsistency.

He cost a lot, obviously and as of yet, he isn't worth 16m. Maybe he will be, maybe he won't but more important to me is whether he could play for a team at the top. I think he can but he obviously has things he needs to work on. His attitude in that respect seems to be great and I hope he's given the opportunity to improve here.

No offence, I don't like abusing our players but I don't think he is a shithouse and it is disrespectful to him to call him one.

By the way, you still didn't answer my initial question, the one about you thinking he's a Championship player and sign of 'how far we have fallen' (amongst other things).
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline Brentieke

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #327 on: March 10, 2012, 06:22:31 PM »
Well he had arguably the best performance for Liverpool when he came on for Lucas against the Mancs.

See I would normally agree with it. But the problem is that you don't actually apply stats. You pick stats out when they suit you and say they prove your point. But when they go against your opinions stats don't mean anything. Wonderful how that works

Great. So one great cameo sub apearence in a sea of shite, okayness and anonymity since August but HE'S IMPROVING! How so?? Can people please tell me the improvements they've noticed in Jordan Henderson's game this season. Go on.
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Offline cptrios

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #328 on: March 10, 2012, 06:22:45 PM »
You know what, I'm writing this here now and I'm going to put it in my signature and leave it there for the next 5 years, no matter how embarrassing might or might not turn out to be: Jordan Henderson is going to be a fantastic player. I will stand by this statement until the day he leaves the club.
You know what, I'm writing this here now and I'm going to put it in my signature and leave it there for the next 5 years, no matter how embarrassing it might or might not turn out to be: Jordan Henderson is going to be a fantastic player.

Offline Brentieke

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #329 on: March 10, 2012, 06:26:17 PM »
Charlie Adam: Cost 6m. Has 6 direct assists and 5 indirect assists. Has scored 2 goals. RAWK Verdict: An embarassement
Jordan Henderson: Cost 16m. Has 1 assist and 0 indirect ones. Has scored 1 goal. RAWK Verdict: The next Xavi. Or Lucas. Or Gerrard. Or Lampard.
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Offline 1021

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #330 on: March 10, 2012, 06:26:53 PM »
Sorry but stats would prove otherwise.

It's not a Adam or Lucas thread is it?

Henderson is could at keeping it simple. long term he could be a DM and for me that's where I would play him however the problem is that he is a shithouse.



Same stats suggesting Lucas had almost peerless rates of pass completion that misled people into the belief Lucas had progressed from a 'only passes backwards and side to side' footballer ?

Adam has 6 assists, he has also taken the lions share of our corner and free kicks to no avail.
He has been ineffective in the tackle, hasn't driven forward from midfield, he lacked pace and fitness and has been far from a goal threat.
All from his best position, the majority of the time partnered with another midfielder to do all of his leg work.

Henderson hasn't been superb, but Adam has 5 years and over a hundred career appearances on Henderson, we should be getting much more from him but we ain't. He is also playing in his best position, again with a partner to do all the defensive work Charles just ain't intrested in doing.

Henderson is a young promising player, being battered by so many supporters who do not understand the concept of development.
And being battered by you because you are trying to deflect from the poor performances of the object of so much of your affection, by laying into another Liverpool player.

You should have learned your lesson.
And you should grow up.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 06:28:55 PM by 1021 »
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline Rohit

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #331 on: March 10, 2012, 06:27:30 PM »
Charlie Adam: Cost 6m. Has 6 direct assists and 5 indirect assists. Has scored 2 goals. RAWK Verdict: An embarassement
Jordan Henderson: Cost 16m. Has 1 assist and 0 indirect ones. Has scored 1 goal. RAWK Verdict: The next Xavi. Or Lucas. Or Gerrard. Or Lampard.

The difference is mate a central midfielder isn't tasked with getting goals and assists they are bonus. The central midfielders job is to maintain possession and just pass the ball at pace a keep at temp, you can't judge by goals/assist column.

Offline seyoufboy

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #332 on: March 10, 2012, 06:27:36 PM »
What's the use of Henderson... just sell him.

Offline Zach2k

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #333 on: March 10, 2012, 06:28:14 PM »
Kid looks like he's scared out of his pants, on and off the ball. Worrying thing is that this has been going on all season.

His passes are predictable and telepathic, he's almost always looking to go backwards.

I honestly dont see any real potential in him.

Think a lot of people use the young english player + Big price tag + remember lucas was rubbish = must have potential equation. Unfortunately doesnt work with every player. Some are just duds.

Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #334 on: March 10, 2012, 06:29:02 PM »
Jordan Henderson has been compared to Xavi, Gerrard and Lampard on RAWK and the ones that don't see it are the ones said to be pathetic.

What a joke.

This. Sharing my actual thoughts on Henderson would probably end up in some idiotic witch hunt, and ending in a ban. Just not worth it. Fact is, I don't see what he offers apart from energy in midfield. He's lethargic, never wants to take us forward, shoot, or make runs into the box. Seems more concerned with his hair half the time.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
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Offline Coolie High

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #335 on: March 10, 2012, 06:29:07 PM »
The difference is mate a central midfielder isn't tasked with getting goals and assists they are bonus. The central midfielders job is to maintain possession and just pass the ball at pace a keep at temp, you can't judge by goals/assist column.

If thats a centre mids job then why did we spend 16 m on this one, when we can get plenty of players for cheaper who do exactly what you said.


Offline 1021

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #336 on: March 10, 2012, 06:29:34 PM »
Kid looks like he's scared out of his pants, on and off the ball. Worrying thing is that this has been going on all season.

His passes are predictable and telepathic, he's almost always looking to go backwards.

I honestly dont see any real potential in him.

Think a lot of people use the young english player + Big price tag + remember lucas was rubbish = must have potential equation. Unfortunately doesnt work with every player. Some are just duds.

Some achievement that mate.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline liverpooll

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #337 on: March 10, 2012, 06:30:32 PM »
Charlie Adam has 6 direct assists in the league and his threat in and around the area has led to 5 more goals.
Jordan Henderson has 1 assist and 0 indirect ones.
The difference is Adam is proactive, tries to create somthing and often fails thus looks shit while the other coasts through games, hides, passes the ball back excatly where it came from and tries not to do anything out of the ordinary.

Agreed, Adam has done far more positively for the team than Henderson over this season.

And as I wrote b4 , I think none of us actually do have a problem with Henderson. He is a decent player but why on earth is he still starting every match despite playing consistency average and yet the likes of Maxi, Shevley are not starting ahead of him. This is for me the issue.

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #338 on: March 10, 2012, 06:31:02 PM »
The difference is mate a central midfielder isn't tasked with getting goals and assists they are bonus. The central midfielders job is to maintain possession and just pass the ball at pace a keep at temp, you can't judge by goals/assist column.

Is that a joke.

Behave.

Offline IndianaRed

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #339 on: March 10, 2012, 06:31:23 PM »
Jordan Henderson has been compared to Xavi, Gerrard and Lampard on RAWK and the ones that don't see it are the ones said to be pathetic.

What a joke.

Listen, it's obvious that such comparisons are unreasonable.  Do try to focus not on the outlandish and sensational, because that's never a reasonable viewpoint.  Why would you even bother to absorb THAT type of post of all the ones that are made?  Expectations of and comparisons between any players have to be managed... comparisons of Jordan to Xavi, Gerrard or Lampard are obviously not well-managed, so don't even respond to them.  Use your brain and take offense to posts which are actually worth taking offense to.

Offline Aristotle

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #340 on: March 10, 2012, 06:31:40 PM »
Charlie Adam: Cost 6m. Has 6 direct assists and 5 indirect assists. Has scored 2 goals. RAWK Verdict: An embarassement
Jordan Henderson: Cost 16m. Has 1 assist and 0 indirect ones. Has scored 1 goal. RAWK Verdict: The next Xavi. Or Lucas. Or Gerrard. Or Lampard.

Since those stats are supposed to say anything. Pray tell how many free kicks, corners and penalties Henderson has taken for Liverpool? Because if they are expected to be pulling the same figures in creativity shouldn't they have the same ground?

Adam has what 1 assist per 80 set pieces that he takes. Those are his supposed speciality. Henderson has 1 assist and 1 goal from less than 10 free kicks, no corners and not a single penalty. Henderson also plays as a winger, despite not being one and Adam is the focal point of our attack and he tries at least 5x as many final balls as Henderson per game so by the law of averages one of them is bound to find a red shirt.
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Offline Brentieke

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #341 on: March 10, 2012, 06:34:26 PM »
So wait, what are you saying. Jordan Henderson has had more impact on our season so far than Charlie Adam? Seriously?
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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #342 on: March 10, 2012, 06:34:29 PM »
Same stats suggesting Lucas had almost peerless rates of pass completion that misled people into the belief Lucas had progressed from a 'only passes backwards and side to side' footballer ?

Adam has 6 assists, he has also taken the lions share of our corner and free kicks to no avail.
He has been ineffective in the tackle, hasn't driven forward from midfield, he lacked pace and fitness and has been far from a goal threat.
All from his best position, the majority of the time partnered with another midfielder to do all of his leg work.

Henderson hasn't been superb, but Adam has 5 years and over a hundred career appearances on Henderson, we should be getting much more from him but we ain't. He is also playing in his best position, again with a partner to do all the defensive work Charles just ain't intrested in doing.

Henderson is a young promising player, being battered by so many supporters who do not understand the concept of development.
And being battered by you because you are trying to deflect from the poor performances of the object of so much of your affection, by laying into another Liverpool player.

You should have learned your lesson.
And you should grow up.

Get a grip man and get into the real world.

Not every player is going to do a Lucas.

You talk about age - He isn't a bloody youth player.

ha ha you wait lad but you will be waiting a long time for Henderson to prove he is a 20m player.

No learn for me to learn pal - I know that not everyone is the same. Think you need to understand that.

Offline 1021

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #343 on: March 10, 2012, 06:34:53 PM »
Charlie Adam: Cost 6m. Has 6 direct assists and 5 indirect assists. Has scored 2 goals. RAWK Verdict: An embarassement
Jordan Henderson: Cost 16m. Has 1 assist and 0 indirect ones. Has scored 1 goal. RAWK Verdict: The next Xavi. Or Lucas. Or Gerrard. Or Lampard.

1. What are indirect assists?
2. Stats can be misleading, Adam will have seen a hell of a lot more of the ball than Henderson, he also takes free kicks and penalties.
3. Charlie Adam is five years older than Henderson has over 100 more career appearances, and has played with 'expectation' before at both Club and National level
4. Henderson cost 13M
5. Henderson is being played out of position, Adam is not only playing in position but has required and recieved the extra support of either Spearing or Lucas
6. Adam has been bought from the present, the here and now, to dictate our play, has he done that to the standard befitting of a Liverpool player?
7. Henderson has been bought for the future and is 'paying his dues' out wide.

You can't compare the two, yet people insist on doing so, and people are willfully ignorant of the fact that young players need time and above all encouragement.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline Rohit

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #344 on: March 10, 2012, 06:35:09 PM »
Is that a joke.

Behave.

The only joke is you mate, constantly peddling your shit about adam then straight jump into a henderson thread to slay a 21 year old kid. Your double standards are joke and what I've have just mentioned regarding central midfielders job is actually correct. But no lets look at goals and assists or stats well heres a stat for you 23 misplaced passes today for adam, thats even before ignoring the countless passes where puts his own team in danger or the dangerous hacking down of players risking a card.

Your normally a good poster but the moment adam is brought up all sense goes out the window with you.

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #345 on: March 10, 2012, 06:35:12 PM »
Decent player. Can see him being good in the future. But what was the point in him. We have as good as him in our outh system and we signed him for 20m. If we put any one of our youngsters in the first team you would either 1) get something good out of them (Sterling) 2) what you get from Henderson - glimpses of quality, inconsistency, lack of balls. Just such a fucking weird signing. Lucas cost 6m and was worth the wait. Henderson cos 3 times as much and won't be as good as him, defo.

Offline Hazell

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #346 on: March 10, 2012, 06:35:49 PM »
Why even both with him mate, I doubt he has much of an opinion with his client adam's performance today and hell most of the season.

My honest henderson is being misused as a winger when he blatently isn't but then the problem is he doesn't dominate a game in midfield either but can recycle the ball well. I personally wouldn't have thought henderson was a piority in the summer along with adam but would have strengthened the deeper midfield area we blatently lack quality bar lucas. It was a moronic decision to say the least to go into the season with one fit top class holder and it has been costing us ever since. We can barely win a defensive header in the air and direct to one of our own let alone win the battle in midfield. Coupled with our passing being laughable when put under pressure makes us look poor in attack.

Henderson has played too many games this season down to the poor squad management and lack of deeper midfield cover in the summer and injuries haven't helped.

Totally agree mate. The thing is, we've generally moved away from having players good in possession so it's no surprise that that's happened. Not my ideal but if the more direct players do the business then fine. At the minute, it's not totally working. But then there's also this mish mash of styles which leaves us being inconsistent and not totally knowing what were doing. I still think we need to be patient and allow Kenny to work things out but he obviously needs to see what the problems are first and whatever it is, we don't seem to be improving in that respect. Sometimes we look good, others not so much. If it continues into next season, it'll be a lot more worrying.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline 1021

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #347 on: March 10, 2012, 06:36:06 PM »
Get a grip man and get into the real world.

Not every player is going to do a Lucas.

You talk about age - He isn't a bloody youth player.

ha ha you wait lad but you will be waiting a long time for Henderson to prove he is a 20m player.

No learn for me to learn pal - I know that not everyone is the same. Think you need to understand that.

I'm not saying Jordan Henderson will be as good as Lucas, or as successful a signing as Lucas came to be.
If you cannot tell that my argument is not 'because Lucas was criticised in the beginning but proved folk wrong, all players who are criticised in the beginning will become world class talent', then I don't know what I can do for you.

My argument is that we haven't learned our lesson from the treatment and expectations placed on young players who are put into the starting XI, the whole culture of our treatment of these sort of signings is so wrong.
Give them time, encouragement, look at their progress with a view to the long term and if it doesn't work out the worst we have done is wished him the best. Expecting it all, getting less than we wanted, slating him, and then expecting things to change, makes no sense.

You need to read the fucking thread.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #348 on: March 10, 2012, 06:36:58 PM »
Charlie Adam: Cost 6m. Has 6 direct assists and 5 indirect assists. Has scored 2 goals. RAWK Verdict: An embarassement
Jordan Henderson: Cost 16m. Has 1 assist and 0 indirect ones. Has scored 1 goal. RAWK Verdict: The next Xavi. Or Lucas. Or Gerrard. Or Lampard.

He is no Gerrard or Lampard, but it can be seen as a positive that Henderson plays a solid game at such a young age. Adam looks weak defensively, but does well going forward. There is no doubt Adam has had more of an impact to our season.

For someone to play every week at LFC, there has to be more coming from that player, be it Adam or Henderson. We can't continue to play Henderson every week when we have Spearing who is better defensively, Adam who does more in attack and we can't use Henderson at RM over players like Kuyt and Maxi. He ain't that good just yet. IMO it's best to remove him now and let others take his place. For every game he plays now, there will be more questions asked.

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Offline Aristotle

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #349 on: March 10, 2012, 06:38:12 PM »
Is that a joke.

Behave.

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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #350 on: March 10, 2012, 06:38:21 PM »
He's being played out of position!

Lets stick Adam out on the left and see how he does.

Offline 1021

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #351 on: March 10, 2012, 06:38:44 PM »
Pep Guardiola, Xavi Hernandez, Xabi Alonso, Andrea Pirlo, Fernando Redondo and Michael Laudrup say hi :wave

Pretenders.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline Hazell

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #352 on: March 10, 2012, 06:38:44 PM »
His written off based on his performances, the same way people have written off Adam even though he has contributed just as much as Henderson and is only in the 2nd season of premier league football himself. The point of using Ngog and Paletta as examples is that just because Lucas made it doesn't mean every young player who starts off shit will, some are just not good enough from the start, personally depending on our aspirations i don't see Henderson as a first team player anytime soon.

He still young. It's silly to write off a player based on 8 months, particularly at that age. And it is important because he will improve and is much more likely to than a 26 year old. I know this isn't the Adam thread but he some issues which he is unlikely to improve up and is meant to be an important player for us. Don't want to get too much into Adam as this isn't his thread.

I got your point about Ngog and Paletta and addressed it in the post you responded to.
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Offline GoodStuff

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #353 on: March 10, 2012, 06:38:51 PM »
Henderson is shocking mate. Don't care how young.

The Hensonson v Lucas situation is totally different.

It's funny how you have your favourites all the time.

So tell us what you really think - do you think Henderson is good enough for Liverpool? Do you think he ever will be good enough for us? Do you think we paid way too much for him? Do you think he is a shithouse?

Henderson is dirk kuyt without the class or ability. Just runs.


If anything Henderson is Kuyt with ability. Neither have class.

Offline Rohit

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #354 on: March 10, 2012, 06:39:26 PM »
Totally agree mate. The thing is, we've generally moved away from having players good in possession so it's no surprise that that's happened. Not my ideal but if the more direct players do the business then fine. At the minute, it's not totally working. But then there's also this mish mash of styles which leaves us being inconsistent and not totally knowing what were doing. I still think we need to be patient and allow Kenny to work things out but he obviously needs to see what the problems are first and whatever it is, we don't seem to be improving in that respect. Sometimes we look good, others not so much. If it continues into next season, it'll be a lot more worrying.

Thing is if you want to be direct you need to top class players the sort that chelsea had under mourinho to make it ultimately successfull. We don't have that and I'm some what baffled why we ripped up the blueprint that worked so well last year to start something. It seems kenny is caught in two minds with being direct or a passing side, we had a some good potential for a passing side in our squad but then in the summer went for more direct players to suit andy who doesn't even play.  Now we just look disjointed and unintelligent in attack. I hope the club and kenny pick one style in the summer and run with it rather than let us have to try mould the two which doesn't look like working.

Offline cptrios

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #355 on: March 10, 2012, 06:40:40 PM »
He's being played out of position!

Lets stick Adam out on the left and see how he does.

Can we seriously try that? I'll be thrilled if it improves his play.
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Offline Neil D

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #356 on: March 10, 2012, 06:40:40 PM »
Never a right winger and never will be.

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #357 on: March 10, 2012, 06:40:58 PM »
He's being played out of position!

Lets stick Adam out on the left and see how he does.


But, that's where Henderson played almost all of last season, which is what we've based his buy off? Not really out of position in that sense.
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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #358 on: March 10, 2012, 06:41:29 PM »
I like him.

He keeps things simple and doesn't worry too much about creating chances/ scoring goals/ getting into the box etc.

He's the new Jamie Redknapp.

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Re: Jordan Henderson
« Reply #359 on: March 10, 2012, 06:42:39 PM »
So wait, what are you saying. Jordan Henderson has had more impact on our season so far than Charlie Adam? Seriously?

No of course not. Charlie Adam has by far had the most impact out of any player in our squad by a country mile. You don't have to do anything else than look at our midfield with and without him.
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