Author Topic: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?  (Read 150513 times)

Offline AKABillyGee

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #280 on: January 20, 2012, 02:26:06 pm »
to be honest I actually agree with Peter on this.

If not they may as well just rip out 10,000 seats at Anfield, install a load of extra boxes and commercial facilities in place of them. And be happy with a 35,000 seater with loads of commercials pouring the money in.

If we stay at Anfield that is what may just happen.

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #281 on: January 20, 2012, 05:49:37 pm »
If we stay at Anfield that is what may just happen.

You can get about 80% premium seats in an area that previously had standard seats. So if you 'ripped out' 10,000 seats and replace them with premium seats, the capacity would drop to 43,000.

Personally, I might keep all 10,000 and add hospitality facilities to raise the take per seat from £940 to £1200 (ie., plus £2.6m) or sacrifice some seats to put in 32 boxes. But that 'only' adds one-and-a-half a million even at £60k a box.

What ever happens. I don't think they'll pull it out of their backsides.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 06:52:32 pm by Peter McGurk »

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #282 on: January 20, 2012, 06:32:53 pm »
What ever happens. I don't think they'll pull it out of their backsides.

There is a joke waiting for someone to post there...

Offline Lothairio

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #283 on: January 20, 2012, 08:38:18 pm »
If we stay at Anfield that is what may just happen.
And that would increase the ST waiting list to in excess of 35,000+
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Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #284 on: January 20, 2012, 09:11:08 pm »
And that would increase the ST waiting list to in excess of 35,000+

In excess of 35k? Pretty sure it's way past that
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #285 on: January 20, 2012, 10:19:15 pm »
The more I look at the AFL (2003) design, the more I like it.

Its like when you want a nice black shirt for xmas, and you get given a blue shirt. You dont like the blue one but you try it on and the more you look at yourself in it, you begin to like/accept it because its what you've got. However, its not the black one.

Sorry for the shit analogy, but this is exactly what this is.

This design was shit in 2003 and is still shit now. Just because we have potentially agreed to get it doesnt change that, it just means we have to accept it.

Would love to see us build something like Dortmund.....looks like we're still 10 years behind afterall  :(
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Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #286 on: January 20, 2012, 10:40:06 pm »
Its like when you want a nice black shirt for xmas, and you get given a blue shirt. You dont like the blue one but you try it on and the more you look at yourself in it, you begin to like/accept it because its what you've got. However, its not the black one.

Sorry for the shit analogy, but this is exactly what this is.

This design was shit in 2003 and is still shit now. Just because we have potentially agreed to get it doesnt change that, it just means we have to accept it.

Would love to see us build something like Dortmund.....looks like we're still 10 years behind afterall  :(




« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 11:11:33 pm by Peter McGurk »

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #287 on: January 20, 2012, 10:45:48 pm »
Is that a proposed redevlopment Peter?

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #288 on: January 20, 2012, 11:09:15 pm »
Is that a proposed redevlopment Peter?

It's at the top end of ambition but yes, it is.


Offline RedPross

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #289 on: January 20, 2012, 11:11:31 pm »
I like it....but unless the council relax its never going to happen!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 11:15:08 pm by RedPross »

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #290 on: January 20, 2012, 11:13:38 pm »
It looks like Dortmund to me!!!

What? A proper football ground? Looks like Anfield to me.



« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 11:26:44 pm by Peter McGurk »

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #291 on: January 20, 2012, 11:22:33 pm »
Ta Peter - just being nosey. Is it doable?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 11:26:49 pm by royhendo »

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #292 on: January 20, 2012, 11:28:18 pm »
I like it....but unless the council relax its never going to happen!

Trust me. Council are relaxed. Anyone who can solve their problem...


Ta Peter - just being nosey. Is it doable?

It's doable except it's way bigger than you'd ever need.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 11:31:29 pm by Peter McGurk »

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #293 on: January 20, 2012, 11:32:39 pm »
Well, it looks bloody good. Wonder if the club are considering similar? Or yours even?

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #294 on: January 20, 2012, 11:33:11 pm »
Well, it looks bloody good. Wonder if the club are considering similar? Or yours even?

I wish


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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #295 on: January 20, 2012, 11:33:34 pm »
Those top tiers look like you couldn't see shit from them, though.
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Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #296 on: January 20, 2012, 11:36:25 pm »
Those top tiers look like you couldn't see shit from them, though.

Not true. Good views. All within recommended maximum distance.


Offline Alan_X

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #297 on: January 20, 2012, 11:38:23 pm »
Its like when you want a nice black shirt for xmas, and you get given a blue shirt. You dont like the blue one but you try it on and the more you look at yourself in it, you begin to like/accept it because its what you've got. However, its not the black one.

Sorry for the shit analogy, but this is exactly what this is.

This design was shit in 2003 and is still shit now. Just because we have potentially agreed to get it doesnt change that, it just means we have to accept it.

Would love to see us build something like Dortmund.....looks like we're still 10 years behind afterall  :(

Dortmund is a thirty-seven year old design with a series of later additions constrained by the 1974 design. It's actually outdated. What do you want? An old fashioned stadium or a modern stadium?
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Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #298 on: January 20, 2012, 11:40:15 pm »
Dortmund is a thirty-seven year old design with a series of later additions constrained by the 1974 design. It's actually outdated. What do you want? An old fashioned stadium or a modern stadium?

Something that works.


Offline Alan_X

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #299 on: January 20, 2012, 11:41:35 pm »
Something that works.



Haha - I agree with that.
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Offline NorthamptonKopite

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #300 on: January 21, 2012, 12:20:01 am »
Looking at those images of a redeveloped Anfield make me want to cry...

Looks absolutely awesome, and it's just a pretty basic drawing.

Imagine a 80,000 seater Anfield... Would be incredible on a massive european night.

The players would feel so small jogging out of the little tunnel we already have at Anfield, touching the sign, coming out, and seeing the main stand, and the kop, towering above them with an extended Kop banner scrawling across the stand, and 80,000 Kopites singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'....

I think I just orgasmed.

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #301 on: January 21, 2012, 12:21:00 am »
Then 30,000 fucking off 5 minutes before half time to get a pie and another 20,000 moaning about players.
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Offline NorthamptonKopite

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #302 on: January 21, 2012, 12:25:19 am »
Then 30,000 fucking off 5 minutes before half time to get a pie and another 20,000 moaning about players.

Hey, we'd be making a decent profit on pie sales atleast...

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #303 on: January 21, 2012, 08:08:34 am »
Dortmund is a thirty-seven year old design with a series of later additions constrained by the 1974 design. It's actually outdated. What do you want? An old fashioned stadium or a modern stadium?

I just dont like the 'bowl' stadiums. I went to city away a few weeks ago and the atmosphere was dire (even in our end). Its the same at the Emirates, and its the same at Wembley. I know that Dortmunds is kinda like a bowl,but their stands are steep and 'intimidating'. It keeps all the sound in it. 

That 2003 design may as well have 'The Reebok stadium' written on the outside of it. It has no character. Just because they have put a 'KOP' in it doesnt change that either.
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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #304 on: January 21, 2012, 08:15:31 am »
I think the oppressive nature of some grounds is a big factor, although you boys know the details re the rake of the stands etc. At the San Siro they wedge you in like a battery hen but it's right on top of the park, albeit for me the fans are too far away from the sidelines. That's what worries me about UEFA compliance - the fans are too far away to be intimidating, no?

Regardless, I prefer old school upgrade, me.

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #305 on: January 21, 2012, 08:16:53 am »
Dortmund is a thirty-seven year old design with a series of later additions constrained by the 1974 design. It's actually outdated. What do you want? An old fashioned stadium or a modern stadium?


Honestly, I think old fashioned.

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #306 on: January 21, 2012, 08:34:48 am »
Enjoying a nosey at that animation Peter. http://www.mcgurkmcgurk.com/_pps/anfield/xtra/anfield_build.html

Who knows how it's going to go, and surely it's the match going regulars whose opinion counts most, but that tugs at the heart strings.


Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #308 on: January 21, 2012, 09:24:57 am »
Looking at those images of a redeveloped Anfield make me want to cry...

Looks absolutely awesome, and it's just a pretty basic drawing.

Imagine a 80,000 seater Anfield... Would be incredible on a massive european night.

The players would feel so small jogging out of the little tunnel we already have at Anfield, touching the sign, coming out, and seeing the main stand, and the kop, towering above them with an extended Kop banner scrawling across the stand, and 80,000 Kopites singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'....

I think I just orgasmed.
An 80000 anfield would bear no resemblance to the current stadium....
And for those saying the 2003 design is boring?

Anfield is nothing special to look at in any way shape or form.
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Offline eirwen

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #309 on: January 21, 2012, 09:42:13 am »
An 80000 anfield would bear no resemblance to the current stadium....
And for those saying the 2003 design is boring?

Anfield is nothing special to look at in any way shape or form.
Anfield doesn't have to be special to look at because it's our history. People are only objecting to giving that up and moving to a boring stadium.

Offline reddazforever

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #310 on: January 21, 2012, 10:22:07 am »
And the others...

http://www.mcgurkmcgurk.com/_pps/anfield/xtra/anfield_main.html

http://www.mcgurkmcgurk.com/_pps/anfield/pages/redeveloped_anfield_one_optionc.html
   These pics are - fantastic.  Assuming these are from Peter, he needs to introduce himself to the powers that be at Anfield. They might dismiss some of the ideas but some may just be worth considering and receive some airplay
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #311 on: January 21, 2012, 10:23:23 am »
I just dont like the 'bowl' stadiums. I went to city away a few weeks ago and the atmosphere was dire (even in our end). Its the same at the Emirates, and its the same at Wembley. I know that Dortmunds is kinda like a bowl,but their stands are steep and 'intimidating'. It keeps all the sound in it. 

That 2003 design may as well have 'The Reebok stadium' written on the outside of it. It has no character. Just because they have put a 'KOP' in it doesnt change that either.

Fair enough. Then forget about the age of the design - it's a red herring. The AFL scheme is a modern stadium and the design criteria are the same as would be used if the design was being done today. The grounds that have better atmosphere are old fashioned but objectively are worse in terms of comfort, facilities, views etc.

That's the heart of the problem. It's all very well saying you want steep stands and an intimidating atmosphere but that could mean the club spending £300 million on a new ground that doesn't 'work' properly.
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Offline 18 yard line

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #312 on: January 21, 2012, 10:30:32 am »
[quoteIt's doable except it's way bigger than you'd ever need.
[/quote]

Very impressive Peter.  I've tended to prefer new build but if something along those lines were achievable...

Given the infrastructure provisions I'd doubt we'll see anything over 60k in either a redevelopment or new stadium initially.   What is the capacity and estimated cost?   
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #313 on: January 21, 2012, 10:32:09 am »
An 80000 anfield would bear no resemblance to the current stadium....
And for those saying the 2003 design is boring?

Anfield is nothing special to look at in any way shape or form.

Not debating that mate. The thing that im disappointed about is that we dont seem to have any imagination. We've fucked about for 10 years abd have now landed back at the same design that we had in 2003. Ur not telling me that in that 10 years that designs, imaginations and quality havent improved? I'd have thought that we wouldnt want to copy the rest of the pack and build a standard 'bowl'? I wouldnt want to leave Anfield with its 100 years of history for a 'Reebok stadium' replica. I just dont see the point.

Id be more happy with something that looked like Anfield now, but on a bigger scale and more modern looking. 
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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #314 on: January 21, 2012, 10:40:25 am »
That's the heart of the problem. It's all very well saying you want steep stands and an intimidating atmosphere but that could mean the club spending £300 million on a new ground that doesn't 'work' properly.

That's the bit we (non-architects and those outside your industry) all need to get our heads round, isn't it? What in FSG's eyes will constitute "working".

Gate revenue, sponsorship revenue, in-ground screen and billboard revenue, project cost...

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #315 on: January 21, 2012, 10:54:08 am »

Very impressive Peter.  I've tended to prefer new build but if something along those lines were achievable...

Given the infrastructure provisions I'd doubt we'll see anything over 60k in either a redevelopment or new stadium initially.   What is the capacity and estimated cost?

Too big and too much, but cheaper than a new stadium of the same size.

60k is about right.


That's the bit we (non-architects and those outside your industry) all need to get our heads round, isn't it? What in FSG's eyes will constitute "working".

Gate revenue, sponsorship revenue, in-ground screen and billboard revenue, project cost...

'Working' in that sense means the meeting of commercial demand with safety (ie., regulation).

Starting from scratch, you will tend to end up with an Emirates, bowl type design. Both the commercial demand (hospitality, boxes, space) and the regulations push any designer to an almost inevitable solution - they all look the same (if they get it right). The imagination ends up on the outside. If they get it wrong (base it on NFL parameters for example...), it doesn't work.

Because Westfalen starts from somewhere else (lower prices, higher capacity, standing) and in a different safety regime, the end result is more appealing to us because it looks like, feels like and is like what we want.

Ultimately Germany (and others) put more faith in the fans to do the right thing - to be safe. Their regulations are no less safe in themselves (some say safer) but they will entertain a different way to achieve a (better) design.

The benefit of starting with Anfield is you get a chance to keep the intangible properties that makes it great. You don't have to keep the problems as well. You can address the issues of legroom, the poor views, the lousy food and beverage as well as addressing the commercial requirements for boxes (there are in fact way too many on that design) and hospitality - and safety.





« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 08:07:37 pm by Peter McGurk »

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #316 on: January 21, 2012, 11:03:38 am »
But your expansion fits regs, no? Which would it be closer to? German or UK?

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #317 on: January 21, 2012, 11:03:58 am »
Working in that sense means the meeting of commercial demand with safety (ie., regulation). Starting from scratch, you will tend to end up with an Emirates, bowl type design. Both the commercial demand (hospitality, boxes, space) and the regulations push any designer to an almost inevitable solution - they all look the same (if they get it right). The imagination ends up on the outside. If they get it wrong (base it on NFL parameters for example...), it doesn't work.

Because Westfalen starts from somewhere else (lower prices, higher capacity, standing) and in a different safety regime, the end result is more appealing to us because it looks like, feels like and is like what we want.

Ultimately Germany (and others) put more faith in the fans to do the right thing - to be safe. Their regulations are no less safe in themselves (some say safer) but they will entertain a different way to achieve a (better) design.

Could we not build something like that with seats in the view that if 'safe standing' come in, we would be in a position to redevelop and create 'our ideal stand'? Obviously if we had the bowl design there would then be no chance of replicating that if 'safe standing' did come in??

Could you build something along those lines that 'would work'?
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Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #318 on: January 21, 2012, 11:05:38 am »
Could we not build something like that with seats in the view that if 'safe standing' come in, we would be in a position to redevelop and create 'our ideal stand'? Obviously if we had the bowl design there would then be no chance of replicating that if 'safe standing' did come in??

Could you build something along those lines that 'would work'?

Yes we could. It's a hugely emotive issue and there's a massive risk of upsetting people but see http://petermcgurk.blogspot.com/2012/01/hillsborough.html. Note that the Kop is 24 degrees. The maximum angle for standing permitted under UK regs.

It's important to understand that the point made is that people stand in Germany and they don't die. Standing did not cause Hillsborough. Lack of trust and respect did.

It's come up here in the natural course of conversation but if you want to respond to that, it's probably best left to the Hillsborough threads.


But your expansion fits regs, no? Which would it be closer to? German or UK?

Sorry, just added that in above - yes, UK regs.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 11:19:03 am by Peter McGurk »

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Bascombe Story - let's wait for confirmation before discussing it ok?
« Reply #319 on: January 21, 2012, 11:36:28 am »
Yes we could. It's a hugely emotive issue and there's a massive risk of upsetting people but see http://petermcgurk.blogspot.com/2012/01/hillsborough.html. Note that the Kop is 24 degrees. The maximum angle for standing permitted under UK regs.

It's important to understand that the point made is that people stand in Germany and they don't die. Standing did not cause Hillsborough. Lack of trust and respect did.

It's come up here in the natural course of conversation but if you want to respond to that, it's probably best left to the Hillsborough threads.


Sorry, just added that in above - yes, UK regs.

Well in that case, I think we'd be stupid not to build something that would accomodate us to adapt to 'safe standing' IF it ever come in. I honestky believe it will in the future and like I said before, i'd hate for us to have some shit looking 'Ethiad' looking stadium and then not be able to create that look if it did ever come in
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