Author Topic: Space exploration thread  (Read 174320 times)

Offline The Gulleysucker

  • RAWK's very own spinached up Popeye. Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • Campaigns
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,208
  • An Indolent Sybarite
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2280 on: September 30, 2019, 12:01:44 AM »
Pity he brands innocent people as peados when they have the nerve to disagree with his opinions.

Yes, but I expect quite a few important historical figures across many disciplines would also share his ill disciplined and abhorrently arrogant views or similar when their authority or pronouncements were challenged, it's just they didn't have twitter to publicize them and by such to inform us what complete and utter arseholes they probably were in person.
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Online WhereAngelsPlay

  • Rockwool Marketing Board Spokesman. Cracker Wanker.
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,069
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2281 on: September 30, 2019, 12:09:16 AM »
Starship ....

Elon Musk is fucking nuts... but once again, this is incredible

Sounds like one of his goals is to take on the airlines or maybe I read that wrong.
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2282 on: September 30, 2019, 12:14:39 AM »
The BBC says he plans to use Glass...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49870154

The Starship will feature heat-resistant "glass" tiles in those areas likely to experience the highest temperatures during a descent back through the atmosphere.

Makes sense. The Shuttle tiles were essentially made of porous borosilicate glass and heat treated tetrasilicide, so it's a proven technology. But recently aerogel materials are advancing in leaps and bounds, so those may be even better.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2283 on: September 30, 2019, 12:15:37 AM »
Yes, but I expect quite a few important historical figures across many disciplines would also share his ill disciplined and abhorrently arrogant views or similar when their authority or pronouncements were challenged, it's just they didn't have twitter to publicize them and by such to inform us what complete and utter arseholes they probably were in person.

Stephen Hawking for one.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 31,922
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2284 on: September 30, 2019, 01:08:35 AM »
Indeed, Hawking seems to have been a bit of a dick.  For myself though I've had no time for Musk since that outburst. It's an abhorrent remark to make.
Jürgen Klopp does not adapt to English Football.  English Football adapts to Jurgan Klopp.

I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do, I sit.

PROJECT WAKE UP UK

Popcorn's Art

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2285 on: September 30, 2019, 03:36:41 AM »
Indeed, Hawking seems to have been a bit of a dick.  For myself though I've had no time for Musk since that outburst. It's an abhorrent remark to make.
Sure, I agree 100%. Musk is a dick and his arrogance knows no limits. But without making any excuse for what he said, I have to admit (as much as I hate it) that arrogance is a necessary ingredient of success and general progress through innovation.

And just as a reminder to the magnitude of the task of going to Mars, Elon Musk's first plan to land on Mars was for 2015... Ahem... But in his defense, it's not easy! The successful Mars landings are less than 50% (will be exactly 50% if we manage to land one more time). So, I consider that any challenge to NASA (or ESA, or Rosskosmos) is a good one, it drives us on. 
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline The Gulleysucker

  • RAWK's very own spinached up Popeye. Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • Campaigns
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,208
  • An Indolent Sybarite
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2286 on: September 30, 2019, 10:14:45 AM »
Stephen Hawking for one.

Shockley was another.

Shockley donated sperm to the Repository for Germinal Choice, a sperm bank founded by Robert Klark Graham in hopes of spreading humanity's best genes. The bank, called by the media the "Nobel Prize sperm bank", claimed to have three Nobel Prize-winning donors, though Shockley was the only one to publicly acknowledge his donation to the sperm bank. However, Shockley's controversial views brought the Repository for Germinal Choice a degree of notoriety and may have discouraged other Nobel Prize winners from donating sperm...

...My research leads me inescapably to the opinion that the major cause of the American Negro's intellectual and social deficits is hereditary and racially genetic in origin and, thus, not remediable to a major degree by practical improvements in the environment.[33]...



Makes sense. The Shuttle tiles were essentially made of porous borosilicate glass and heat treated tetrasilicide, so it's a proven technology. But recently aerogel materials are advancing in leaps and bounds, so those may be even better.

Sandia have been doing interesting stuff with aerogel treatments (and here) for years, there's a hint in there about high performance thermal insulation

Which reminds me of a story I was told around 20 or so years ago that one of the first practical uses of aerogel was as a plasma between the primary and secondary stages in fission-fusion. Fogbank. It's an interesting read, not so much about the material but what happened when they subsequently had to reverse engineer it years later as the original production line had been closed down and the staff long dispersed or retired.


I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2287 on: October 1, 2019, 04:27:46 AM »

Sandia have been doing interesting stuff with aerogel treatments (and here) for years, there's a hint in there about high performance thermal insulation

Which reminds me of a story I was told around 20 or so years ago that one of the first practical uses of aerogel was as a plasma between the primary and secondary stages in fission-fusion. Fogbank. It's an interesting read, not so much about the material but what happened when they subsequently had to reverse engineer it years later as the original production line had been closed down and the staff long dispersed or retired.

(I wasn't aware of Shockley's image, thanks for posting that!)

Yeah, Sandia have been developing aerogels due to Jeff Brinker's good work for many years. Jeff is one of the leaders in the field in the U.S. and I'm familiar with his work. Livermore are doing a lot too nowadays. But unfortunately (for me), the U.S. is no longer leading the aerogel field worldwide. TUHH (Hamburg) has a strong group, DLR (Cologne) has the largest aerogel effort among aerospace entities, and France (Sofia Antipolis) is very strong. These two resurrected the aerogel science from the oblivion after 2003. And England is not far behind, especially Lidija Siller at Newcastle Uni is doing some really fine work. I'm closely connected to the aerogel field, and just recently went to the 1st International Conference on Aerogel-Inspired Materials in Newcastle. I also gave a public lecture there on Sep. 17 on the NASA use of aerogels and was thinking of posting on here if someone wanted to come, but got distracted at work and forgot... The progress in the last few years has been immense! Not only do they sell aerogel-filled clothes, hiking gear and what not (people climbed Everest in aerogel-insulated boots), but they make bullet-proof vests better than Kevlar, aerogel windows for houses, oil pipe insulation, and Aerogel Technologies are working on replacing the Airbus internal plastic panels and Ford engine covers. Mind-boggling...

Having said that, "high performance thermal insulation" is synonymous with aerogels, any aerogels. They are the best thermal insulators known to men, full stop. The issues for their implementation are mostly cost and other factors, such as hydrophobicity, structural integrity, drying process, etc., not physical limitations. There is a way to implement them in everything, but it's not always feasible. For example, the only place they can be used in housing is Switzerland, because saving a few inches from the inner walls of retrofitted houses translates into savings. For space, we use them since the Pathfinder mission; insulating the Sojourner rover was not only the only solution that fit into the mass budget, but allowed for adding a small weather station (most people don't know that little detail). We never looked back afterwards and used it on every rover on Mars, all electronics and RTG shielding uses aerogel. Cost is not a real issue for flight missions, to be honest. We also used it to capture comet particles (Stardust) and in a composite form as a vacuum pump (InSight). I'm trying to expand its application to radar technology.

So, Elon Musk is smart, porous glass/ceramics is the way to go, and the sol-gel production method applies well to them. Nowadays they make them flexible or high-temperature ( for >800 C) and they can make composites (flexible blankets). I'm trying to push for implementation in a Europa landing mission, but I've got a lot of resistance at JPL... But Elon doesn't care, he does what he wants. That's what I like about a private company which hasn't yet accumulated critical amount of deadwood... Sometimes I wish I was born one generation earlier...

Edit: That picture on Fogbank with the brick on top of the aerogel took a few tries... :) The material is very good on compression, but lousy in pull or shear (not unlike cement). if the brick tilts, the aerogel crumbles in 1000 pieces like car glass.
« Last Edit: October 1, 2019, 04:31:36 AM by farawayred »
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2288 on: October 11, 2019, 01:52:00 AM »
Mars 2020 rover being packed for shipping soon.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline soxfan

  • inebriated gonad donor (rejected) and Sperm Whale Milker (also rejected). Left-handed, shit-headed, non-fascist recidivist disappointer of women everywhere - on both drier and ranier days......
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,309
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2289 on: October 15, 2019, 07:58:31 PM »
Gilbert V. Levin is an engineer and inventor; he was the principal investigator of the Labeled Release life detection experiment on NASA Viking missions to Mars in the 1970s.

I’m Convinced We Found Evidence of Life on Mars in the 1970s
By Gilbert V. Levin


We humans can now peer back into the virtual origin of our universe. We have learned much about the laws of nature that control its seemingly infinite celestial bodies, their evolution, motions and possible fate. Yet, equally remarkable, we have no generally accepted information as to whether other life exists beyond us, or whether we are, as was Samuel Coleridge’s Ancient Mariner, “alone, alone, all, all alone, alone on a wide wide sea!” We have made only one exploration to solve that primal mystery. I was fortunate to have participated in that historic adventure as experimenter of the Labeled Release (LR) life detection experiment on NASA’s spectacular Viking mission to Mars in 1976.

On July 30, 1976, the LR returned its initial results from Mars. Amazingly, they were positive. As the experiment progressed, a total of four positive results, supported by five varied controls, streamed down from the twin Viking spacecraft landed some 4,000 miles apart. The data curves signaled the detection of microbial respiration on the Red Planet. The curves from Mars were similar to those produced by LR tests of soils on Earth. It seemed we had answered that ultimate question.

When the Viking Molecular Analysis Experiment failed to detect organic matter, the essence of life, however, NASA concluded that the LR had found a substance mimicking life, but not life. Inexplicably, over the 43 years since Viking, none of NASA’s subsequent Mars landers has carried a life detection instrument to follow up on these exciting results. Instead the agency launched a series of missions to Mars to determine whether there was ever a habitat suitable for life and, if so, eventually to bring samples to Earth for biological examination.

NASA maintains the search for alien life among its highest priorities. On February 13, 2019, NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine said we might find microbial life on Mars. Our nation has now committed to sending astronauts to Mars. Any life there might threaten them, and us upon their return. Thus, the issue of life on Mars is now front and center.

Life on Mars seemed a long shot. On the other hand, it would take a near miracle for Mars to be sterile. NASA scientist Chris McKay once said that Mars and Earth have been “swapping spit” for billions of years, meaning that, when either planet is hit by comets or large meteorites, some ejecta shoot into space. A tiny fraction of this material eventually lands on the other planet, perhaps infecting it with microbiological hitch-hikers. That some Earth microbial species could survive the Martian environment has been demonstrated in many laboratories. There are even reports of the survival of microorganisms exposed to naked space outside the International Space Station (ISS).

NASA’s reservation against a direct search for microorganisms ignores the simplicity of the task accomplished by Louis Pasteur in 1864. He allowed microbes to contaminate a hay-infusion broth, after which bubbles of their expired gas appeared. Prior to containing living microorganisms, no bubbles appeared. (Pasteur had earlier determinted that heating, or pasteurizing, such a substance would kill the microbes.) This elegantly simple test, updated to substitute modern microbial nutrients with the hay-infusion products in Pasteur’s, is in daily use by health authorities around the world to examine potable water. Billions of people are thus protected against microbial pathogens.

This standard test, in essence, was the LR test on Mars, modified by the addition of several nutrients thought to broaden the prospects for success with alien organisms, and the tagging of the nutrients with radioactive carbon. These enhancements made the LR sensitive to the very low microbial populations postulated for Mars, should any be there, and reduced the time for detection of terrestrial microorganisms to about one hour. But on Mars, each LR experiment continued for seven days. A heat control, similar to Pasteur’s, was added to determine whether any response obtained was biological or chemical.

The Viking LR sought to detect and monitor ongoing metabolism, a very simple and fail-proof indicator of living microorganisms. Several thousand runs were made, both before and after Viking, with terrestrial soils and microbial cultures, both in the laboratory and in extreme natural environments. No false positive or false negative result was ever obtained. This strongly supports the reliability of the LR Mars data, even though their interpretation is debated.

In her recent book To Mars with Love, my LR co-experimenter Patricia Ann Straat provides much of the scientific detail of the Viking LR at lay level. Scientific papers published about the LR are available on my Web site.

In addition to the direct evidence for life on Mars obtained by the Viking LR, evidence supportive of, or consistent with, extant microbial life on Mars has been obtained by Viking, subsequent missions to Mars, and discoveries on Earth:

- Surface water sufficient to sustain microorganisms was found on Mars by Viking, Pathfinder, Phoenix and Curiosity;
- Ultraviolet (UV) activation of the Martian surface material did not, as initially proposed, cause the LR reaction: a sample taken from under a UV-shielding rock was as LR-active as surface samples;
- Complex organics, have been reported on Mars by Curiosity’s scientists, possibly including kerogen, which could be of biological origin;
- Phoenix and Curiosity found evidence that the ancient Martian environment may have been habitable.
- The excess of carbon-13 over carbon-12 in the Martian atmosphere is indicative of biological activity, which prefers ingesting the latter;
- The Martian atmosphere is in disequilibrium: its CO2 should long ago have been converted to CO by the sun’s UV light; thus the CO2 is being regenerated, possibly by microorganisms as on Earth;
- Terrestrial microorganisms have survived in outer space outside the ISS;
- Ejecta containing viable microbes have likely been arriving on Mars from Earth;
- Methane has been measured in the Martian atmosphere; microbial methanogens could be the source;
- The rapid disappearance of methane from the Martian atmosphere requires a sink, possibly supplied by methanotrophs that could co-exist with methanogens on the Martian surface;
- Ghost-like moving lights, resembling will-O’-the-wisps on Earth that are formed by spontaneous ignition of methane, have been video-recorded on the Martian surface;
- Formaldehyde and ammonia, each possibly indicative of biology, are claimed to be in the Martian atmosphere;
- An independent complexity analysis of the positive LR signal identified it as biological;
- Six-channel spectral analyses by Viking’s imaging system found terrestrial lichen and green patches on Mars rocks to have the identical color, saturation, hue and intensity;
- A wormlike feature was in an image taken by Curiosity;
- Large structures resembling terrestrial stromatolites (formed by microorganisms) were found by Curiosity; a statistical analysis of their complex features showed less than a 0.04 percent probability that
  the similarity was caused by chance alone;
- No factor inimical to life has been found on Mars.

In summary, we have: positive results from a widely-used microbiological test; supportive responses from strong and varied controls; duplication of the LR results at each of the two Viking sites; replication of the experiment at the two sites; and the failure over 43 years of any experiment or theory to provide a definitive nonbiological explanation of the Viking LR results.

What is the evidence against the possibility of life on Mars? The astonishing fact is that there is none. Furthermore, laboratory studies have shown that some terrestrial microorganisms could survive and grow on Mars.

NASA has already announced that its 2020 Mars lander will not contain a life-detection test. In keeping with well-established scientific protocol, I believe an effort should be made to put life detection experiments on the next Mars mission possible. I and my co-experimenter have formally and informally proposed that the LR experiment, amended with an ability to detect chiral metabolism, be sent to Mars to confirm the existence of life: non-biological chemical reactions do not distinguish between “left-handed” and “right-handed” organic molecules, but all living things do.

Moreover, the Chiral LR (CLR) could confirm and extend the Viking LR findings. It could determine whether any life detected were similar to ours, or whether there was a separate genesis. This would be a fundamental scientific discovery in its own right. A small, lightweight CLR has already been designed and its principle verified by tests. It could readily be turned into a flight instrument.

Meanwhile a panel of expert scientists should review all pertinent data of the Viking LR together with other and more recent evidence concerning life on Mars. Such an objective jury might conclude, as I did, that the Viking LR did find life. In any event, the study would likely produce important guidance for NASA’s pursuit of its holy grail.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/im-convinced-we-found-evidence-of-life-on-mars-in-the-1970s/
“Do not intermingle with people who act like 'they know it all'. If you do, you will wind up as lost and lonely as they are.”
― Christine Szymanski

Offline gjr1

  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,706
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2290 on: November 3, 2019, 10:33:53 AM »
Mars 2020 rover being packed for shipping soon.

Just watched a program about curiosity. I see the new rover has many of the same technologies.

And also a helicopter drone which sounds cool
We have to be like Rocky

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2291 on: November 3, 2019, 05:16:55 PM »
Just watched a program about curiosity. I see the new rover has many of the same technologies.

And also a helicopter drone which sounds cool
True. Mars 2020 was sold to Congress as "built-to-print" rover with some modifications. In reality, the commonalities are scarce. The rover electronics are at least a decade old products by the time they fly, and the technology evolves so rapidly that the old widgets are no longer available. The new one have to go through the entire qualification program again. Same is true for mechanical components. We definitely don't want the same crappy MSL actuators, the wheels were redesigned to minimize puncture, the mobility joints were beefed up, the M2020 drill is a core drill, there is an entirely different sample handling suite... In fact, the similarities are pretty much mass, size and power source (rocket, parachute, EDL systems, etc. are the same).

The helicopter is a cool addition indeed, and it will have something truly symbolic. That's one of two technology demonstration missions. The other is MOXIE (Mars Oxygen In-situ resource utilization Experiment), which intends to produce oxygen and methane fuel from Mars atmosphere for future human exploration support.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Andy ⁎ Allerton

  • Yarp. Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish.....
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 60,583
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2292 on: November 4, 2019, 05:55:51 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/nov/04/nasa-voyager-2-sends-back-first-signal-from-interstellar-space


Nasa's Voyager 2 sends back its first signal from interstellar space

Nasa craft is second to travel beyond heliosphere but will give most detailed data yet





Twelve billion miles from Earth, there is an elusive boundary that marks the edge of the sun’s realm and the start of interstellar space. Voyager 2, the longest-running space mission, has finally beamed back a faint signal from the other side of that frontier, 42 years after its launch.

The Nasa craft is the second ever to travel beyond the heliosphere, the bubble of supersonic charged particles streaming outwards from the sun. Despite setting off a month ahead of its twin, Voyager 1, it crossed the threshold into interstellar space seven years behind, after taking the scenic route across the solar system and providing what remain the only close-up images of Uranus and Neptune.

Now Voyager 2 has sent back the most detailed look yet at the edge of our solar system – despite Nasa scientists having no idea at the outset that it would survive to see this landmark.

“We didn’t know how large the bubble was and we certainly didn’t know that the spacecraft could live long enough to reach the edge of the bubble and enter interstellar space,” said Prof Ed Stone, of the California Institute of Technology, who has been working on the mission since before its launch in 1977.



The heliosphere can be thought of as a cosmic weather front: a distinct boundary where charged particles rushing outwards from the sun at supersonic speed meet a cooler, interstellar wind blowing in from supernovae that exploded millions of years ago. It was once thought that the solar wind faded away gradually with distance, but Voyager 1 confirmed there was a boundary, defined by a sudden drop in temperature and an increase in the density of charged particles, known as plasma.

The second set of measurements, by Voyager 2, give new insights into the nature of the heliosphere’s limits because on Voyager 1 a crucial instrument designed to directly measure the properties of plasma had broken in 1980.

Measurements published in five separate papers in Nature Astronomy reveal that Voyager 2 encountered a much sharper, thinner heliosphere boundary than Voyager 1. This could be due to Voyager 1 crossing during a solar maximum (activity is currently at a low) or the craft itself might have crossed through on a less perpendicular trajectory that meant it ended up spending longer at the edge.

The second data point also gives some insight into the shape of the heliosphere, tracing out a leading edge something like a blunt bullet.

“It implies that the heliosphere is symmetric, at least at the two points where the Voyager spacecraft crossed,” said Bill Kurth, a University of Iowa research scientist and a co-author on one of the studies. “That says that these two points on the surface are almost at the same distance.”

Voyager 2 also gives additional clues to the thickness of the heliosheath, the outer region of the heliosphere and the point where the solar wind piles up against the approaching wind in interstellar space, like the bow wave sent out ahead of a ship in the ocean.

The data also feeds into a debate about the overall shape of the heliosphere, which some models predict ought to be spherical and others more like a wind sock, with a long tail floating out behind as the solar system moves through the galaxy at close to supersonic speeds.

The shape depends, in a complex way, on the relative strengths of the magnetic fields inside and outside of the heliosphere, and the latest measurements are suggestive of a more spherical form.

There are limits to how much can be gleaned from two data points, however.

“It’s kind of like looking at an elephant with a microscope,” Kurth said. “Two people go up to an elephant with a microscope, and they come up with two different measurements. You have no idea what’s going on in between.”

From beyond the heliosphere, the signal from Voyager 2 is still beaming back, taking more than 16 hours to reach Earth. Its 22.4-watt transmitter has a power equivalent to a fridge light, which is more than a billion billion times dimmer by the time it reaches Earth and is picked up by Nasa’s largest antenna, a 70-metre dish.

The two Voyager probes, powered by steadily decaying plutonium, are projected to drop below critical energy levels in the mid-2020s. But they will continue on their trajectories long after they fall silent. “The two Voyagers will outlast Earth,” said Kurth. “They’re in their own orbits around the galaxy for 5bn years or longer. And the probability of them running into anything is almost zero.”
Jeonbuk Hyundai Motors FC superfan since 8th May 2020

Online FiSh77

  • LoAves0. Is completely hooked on RAWK. Dead ringer for Amos Taylor. Burns, baby, burns.
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,156
  • We all live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2293 on: November 10, 2019, 09:43:15 PM »
Mercury will transit the sun tomorrow, you should be able to see it from just after 12.35pm for around 3 and a half hours depending on conditions, sunset time and all that bollocks, it's the only naked eye planet I've never seen and don't really have the gear for right now so would love it if someone got some decent pics of the transit, yeah I could look on the internet at some pics captured from observatories but nothing beats that moment when you see or capture something on your own equipment 

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2294 on: November 13, 2019, 10:52:12 PM »
Hayabusa2 has been a nice feather in JAXA's hat. It's coming back to Earth to drop samples off and go on to another adventure.

https://www.dw.com/en/hayabusa2-probe-leaves-ryugu-asteroid-heads-home/a-51230906
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Online Ray K

  • Loves a shiny helmet.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,696
  • Truthiness
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2295 on: December 20, 2019, 01:42:46 PM »
Not a good month or year for Boeing. Their new Starliner spacecraft set off for the ISS on a test flight today, and after an initially successful launch it failed to reach the correct orbital height and missed the ISS due to a separation issue and abandoned it's rendezvous.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 01:51:03 PM by Ray K »
"We have to change from doubters to believers"

Twitter: @rjkelly75

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 31,922
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2296 on: January 1, 2020, 08:00:11 PM »
If all goes well SLS should launch the second half of this year carrying Artemis 1 on a 25 day mission involving a week in lunar orbit.  It will test new radiation protective technologies, including a "vest" designed to do the same job as a radiation shelter.  Two dummy astronauts will be used to test radiation exposure during the mission.
Jürgen Klopp does not adapt to English Football.  English Football adapts to Jurgan Klopp.

I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do, I sit.

PROJECT WAKE UP UK

Popcorn's Art

Offline Andy ⁎ Allerton

  • Yarp. Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish.....
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 60,583
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2297 on: January 3, 2020, 07:25:16 PM »
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/as-betelgeuse-dims-dramatically-astronomers-scratch-their-heads?utm_source=dscfb&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dscfb

As Betelgeuse Dims Dramatically, Astronomers Scratch Their Heads

One of the night sky's brightest stars is now the faintest it's been in a century. Astronomers aren't sure what it mean

Over the last few weeks, Betelgeuse, the bright reddish star in the constellation Orion, has dimmed to the faintest it's been in a century. Astronomers have been buzzing with excitement about the event, discussing the star over social media and speculating what might be going on.

The big question on everyone’s mind is whether the star is about to go supernova and explode. That’s probably not what’s about to happen, astronomers say, but they’re still excited to be witnessing behavior they’ve never seen from Betelgeuse before. There’s a lot that astronomers still don’t know about the variable behavior of supergiant stars like Betelgeuse, so any strange activity is a chance to learn more about the lives of stars. 
A Fading Supergiant

For over a century, astronomers have watched Betelgeuse brighten and dim again and again. Betelgeuse is a red supergiant, a star late in its life that has expanded to an enormous size. Bubbles of material rise from inside the star to its surface and sink back down, changing the mix of hotter and cooler stuff on the star’s surface. These changes make Betelgeuse appear brighter and fainter over time.

For about 25 years, Richard Wasatonic, an astronomer at Villanova University, has measured the brightness of Betelgeuse with a 10-inch-diameter telescope in his backyard. He's worked with another Villanova astronomer named Edward Guinan, as well as an amateur astronomer named Thomas Calderwood. In October, they noticed that Betelgeuse was getting fainter again. By early December, they realized that Betelgeuse had gotten fainter than it had in the past 25 years and put out a post on a site known as The Astronomer’s Telegram to alert other astronomers.

“It kept getting fainter,” Guinan said. “Every night, it was fainter than the previous night, and I said, ‘Well, it has to stop soon.’ And it hasn’t.”

On Dec. 23, they posted an update. Betelgeuse had gotten fainter still, and it was now the faintest it has been in the last century or so — for as long as astronomers have been able to measure its brightness with detectors rather than judging by eye. At its brightest, Betelgeuse is usually one of the six or seven brightest stars visible to humans in the night sky. By mid-December, it had dropped several places on that list, to 21st brightest.
About to Blow?

The unusual dimming episode has made some astronomers wonder whether Betelgeuse is about to go supernova. Life on Earth would be fine if Betelgeuse did explode.

Based on its mass, astronomers estimate that the supergiant will go supernova when it’s roughly 9 million years old. According to Guinan, Betelgeuse is probably between 8 million and 9 million years old now. Astronomers have recently estimated that Betelgeuse might be due for a supernova in about 100,000 years or so. When it blows, it'll be spectacular. The explosion will be about half as bright as the full moon, Guinan said. Anyone lucky enough to be around would be able to see it shine during the day for months until it fades away.

Astronomers have carefully observed the behaviors of many stars after they exploded as supernovae. But no one has had a detailed look at how a star behaves leading up to a supernova. So astronomers don’t really know whether the current dimming event is leading up to a supernova. What they do know is that it’d be pretty unlikely for the explosion to go off now when there’s so much uncertainty in their understanding of Betelgeuse’s behavior and even its age.

Guinan and his team will keep monitoring Betelgeuse, as they have been for decades. Based on Betelgeuse's past dimming and brightening patterns — the star seems to cycle in brightness both every six years or so and every 425 days — they expect that it'll get its faintest in January and then get brighter again. But they'll have to see if that's the case.

"It defies prediction," Guinan said. "It's hard to predict what it’s going to do in the future."
Jeonbuk Hyundai Motors FC superfan since 8th May 2020

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 31,922
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2298 on: January 4, 2020, 08:12:43 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/y1vZ6JT1s8Q" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/y1vZ6JT1s8Q</a>
Jürgen Klopp does not adapt to English Football.  English Football adapts to Jurgan Klopp.

I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do, I sit.

PROJECT WAKE UP UK

Popcorn's Art

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2299 on: January 5, 2020, 01:01:55 AM »
Family weekend at JPL and next week we start packing the rover to send it to the Cape. Go/no-go decision is still hanging n the balance.

Shit mission management, IMHO, and it's a pity that sample return and future missions depends on it...
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Sangria

  • Ally Machoist
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,523
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2300 on: January 5, 2020, 02:01:05 AM »
Family weekend at JPL and next week we start packing the rover to send it to the Cape. Go/no-go decision is still hanging n the balance.

Shit mission management, IMHO, and it's a pity that sample return and future missions depends on it...

That's a surprisingly bad review. Still, any news of Harrison Reed?
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2301 on: February 25, 2020, 05:02:27 PM »
Mars has a strange humming sound... Not known origins, could be the crater resonating, but it's curious. The first active fault line is also being slowly revealed.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/02/nasa-insight-lander-detected-humming-mars-scientists-dont-know-why/

In other news regarding the new rover, the rover is at the Cape, the sample handling hardware left for there last week, and the final sample-intimate hardware sterilization will occur at the end of March, beginning of April. Seems like the mission is a "go" at this time despite some mechanical problems with the sampling hardware; it's considered manageable so far.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline PROPER crazyemlyn72

  • is Android
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,403
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2302 on: February 25, 2020, 11:05:58 PM »
i love it when i check into the science and tech section and theres a post from farawayred. i know its not your area of expertise, but any news of space telescopes? the JWT is the dream machine itd be great to seethat far back in time. always love your insider updates.

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2303 on: February 26, 2020, 04:11:06 AM »
i love it when i check into the science and tech section and theres a post from farawayred. i know its not your area of expertise, but any news of space telescopes? the JWT is the dream machine itd be great to seethat far back in time. always love your insider updates.
Thanks, mate! I haven't been as proactive as before as I'm losing my enthusiasm when I see the direction we're evolving to... But I hope that that's not contagious and people stay excited about space exploration!

JWST is managed by Goddard and I'm far removed from it. We contribute a detector to the mission (MIRI, Mid-Infrared Instrument) that I've been involved with, but that's all. JWST is scheduled for launch in a year from Kourou, but who knows... There had been so many delays, they've became a running joke theme. The initial cost estimate was $1bn, it's gonna be $10bn by the time of launch and was supposed to launch like a decade earlier... It's going to be the next bestest thing in space, but you never know. It's a great telescope, really well though out, but there is no fixing it like Hubble. Hubble was in earth orbit, you send repairman when you need. JWST is orbiting at the Lagrangian point; there is no going there. So, cross fingers all goes well.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline PROPER crazyemlyn72

  • is Android
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,403
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2304 on: February 26, 2020, 02:45:26 PM »
Yeah it's mad. Beyond the moon's orbit is it? Hard to believe we can't get there and back if we had to. I suppose it's better to be ultra careful so no one fucks up. But, you know, someone always does 😭

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 31,922
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2305 on: March 1, 2020, 05:12:12 PM »
Worst thing about JWST is when it runs out of coolant and or fuel. Only has something like a 10 year lifespan. Compare that to almost 30 years with Hubble.
« Last Edit: March 1, 2020, 07:19:30 PM by Red Berry »
Jürgen Klopp does not adapt to English Football.  English Football adapts to Jurgan Klopp.

I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do, I sit.

PROJECT WAKE UP UK

Popcorn's Art

Online Tepid T₂O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 67,951
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2306 on: March 1, 2020, 05:27:00 PM »
Worst thing about JWST is when it runs out of coolant and it fuel. Only has something like a 10 year lifespan. Compare that to almost 30 years with Hubble.
The original lifespan of the Hubble wasn’t much more was it?

(I’ve looked it up.  15 years.   It’s the most incredible achievement being their for 28 years)
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”

With courage, nothing is impossible.

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 31,922
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2307 on: March 1, 2020, 07:23:08 PM »
The original lifespan of the Hubble wasn’t much more was it?

(I’ve looked it up.  15 years.   It’s the most incredible achievement being their for 28 years)

I checked the JWST and the minimum lifespan is 5 years, but hoping for 10.

Hubble's been within easy reach of regular maintenance so it's not a surprise really. Still, if this in-satellite refueling concept takes off then automated visits to James Webb aren't impossible, at least for basics.
Jürgen Klopp does not adapt to English Football.  English Football adapts to Jurgan Klopp.

I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do, I sit.

PROJECT WAKE UP UK

Popcorn's Art

Online Tepid T₂O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 67,951
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2308 on: March 1, 2020, 07:28:30 PM »
I checked the JWST and the minimum lifespan is 5 years, but hoping for 10.

Hubble's been within easy reach of regular maintenance so it's not a surprise really. Still, if this in-satellite refueling concept takes off then automated visits to James Webb aren't impossible, at least for basics.
Urgh I spelled there incorrectly!

It would be the interesting to see how feasible it is to ‘refuel’ JWST even if you could get to it...

Bloody amazing though...
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”

With courage, nothing is impossible.

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 31,922
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2309 on: March 1, 2020, 08:10:05 PM »
Urgh I spelled there incorrectly!

It would be the interesting to see how feasible it is to ‘refuel’ JWST even if you could get to it...

Bloody amazing though...

;D Tut!  I didn't even notice as I was on my phone, so shame on both of us!

At the moment satellite "refuelling" is being tried by simply latching an additional satellite onto an existing one and using the additional propellant on the piggyback vehicle.

There's talk of a few years down the line for a satellite that can actually add propellant directly into feed lines, but this means opening up the sealed lines, which of course were not designed to be opened.  And I'm not sure how this would be adapted for the coolant the JWST needs to operate effectively.  Think it's liquid helium to cool its instruments.

If the lunar gateway can be established and Orion brought up to full operation by 2030ish then I suppose there's an outside chance you could send a repair team out to it.  It couldn't be any riskier than landing on an asteroid after all.
Jürgen Klopp does not adapt to English Football.  English Football adapts to Jurgan Klopp.

I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do, I sit.

PROJECT WAKE UP UK

Popcorn's Art

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2310 on: March 1, 2020, 08:26:32 PM »
I think that the refueling of the JWST is something that's quite feasible, but that's not the main constraint for its longevity. The instruments lifetimes are. For example, the MIRI detector operates at liquid He temperatures, which sets limits on the He leak rate from the entire system, which consists of many joints that are assembled without good access. Basically, there is a diving board hung over the instrument and a person lying on it there has to assemble all the joints with limited access and without moving sideways (where he can hit other sensitive components). It's a crazy operation and there are only two people who are trained to do it!

Once assembled, the entire system has to be leak chekced to a very low requirement. But keep in mind that He becomes far more denser at 4K than it is at 300K and, considering worst-case fluid dynamics, the He leak sensitivity at RT has to be 600 times better. It can't be done with current best instruments. So everything, the entire system, has to be checked as cols s possible. That meets the requirements, but there is no guarantee that a small undetectable leak will not limit future JWST lifetime extensions. And there is another problem with one joint that has been around for years; its easily resolvable, but the rework operation carries high risk to other already assembled equipment.

That's why lifetimes are set to have a reasonable target that will return science worthy of the price tag. You can work to verify the performance against these requirements, and you can get lucky that the mission works for longer. But Hubble had the benefits of being accessible by humans; otherwise, it would have been dead on arrival.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 31,922
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2311 on: March 1, 2020, 11:06:44 PM »
Let's just hope they got the mirror right this time. ;D
Jürgen Klopp does not adapt to English Football.  English Football adapts to Jurgan Klopp.

I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do, I sit.

PROJECT WAKE UP UK

Popcorn's Art

Online Tepid T₂O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 67,951
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2312 on: March 1, 2020, 11:08:32 PM »
Let's just hope they got the mirror right this time. ;D
Well that’s a story in itself. One dropped screw, one bit of paint chipped off and the calibration went awry.

Should be easier with composite mirrors though!
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”

With courage, nothing is impossible.

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2313 on: March 1, 2020, 11:19:50 PM »
Well that’s a story in itself. One dropped screw, one bit of paint chipped off and the calibration went awry.

Should be easier with composite mirrors though!
Except for the mirrors themselves... ;D

A few years ago I worked on a problem with the Large Binocular Telescope in Arizona. A really cool piece of engineering! The flex mirror is not fragmented, but is made of a 0.6 mm-thick flexible glass plate, a meter in diameter... It's held by 632 segmented magnets in a way that the magnetic field looks like a mushroom top. The segments in each magnet are held with epoxy, which work against the repulsive magnetic forces. If one of those failed, imagine the fragments flying everywhere!... And there are only three such mirrors, two in service one usually in repair. Leading edge science comes at a price, but the engineering marbles that facilitate it can be jaw-dropping!
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Red Berry

  • Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 31,922
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2314 on: March 1, 2020, 11:51:17 PM »
Except for the mirrors themselves... ;D

A few years ago I worked on a problem with the Large Binocular Telescope in Arizona. A really cool piece of engineering! The flex mirror is not fragmented, but is made of a 0.6 mm-thick flexible glass plate, a meter in diameter... It's held by 632 segmented magnets in a way that the magnetic field looks like a mushroom top. The segments in each magnet are held with epoxy, which work against the repulsive magnetic forces. If one of those failed, imagine the fragments flying everywhere!... And there are only three such mirrors, two in service one usually in repair. Leading edge science comes at a price, but the engineering marbles that facilitate it can be jaw-dropping!

That's utterly amazing!  We can do something like that but fall into a panic over a poxy virus where all we can do is wash our hands!  ;D
Jürgen Klopp does not adapt to English Football.  English Football adapts to Jurgan Klopp.

I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do, I sit.

PROJECT WAKE UP UK

Popcorn's Art

Online farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,655
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2315 on: March 13, 2020, 12:11:29 AM »
ExoMars mission delayed due to COVID-19

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/world/exomars-rosalind-franklin-rover-2022-launch-coronavirus-scn-trnd/index.html

I truly hope that NASA will follow with the COVID-19 excuse to delay the Mars 2020 as well. It's a shit show...
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline kavah

  • the Blacksmith. Definitely NOT from Blackpool!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,003
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2316 on: March 13, 2020, 05:33:05 AM »
Apollo 13 podcast on has started on the BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xttx2/episodes/downloads


Offline The Gulleysucker

  • RAWK's very own spinached up Popeye. Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • Campaigns
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,208
  • An Indolent Sybarite
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2317 on: March 20, 2020, 05:59:05 PM »
First there was pestilence, and great woe swept the land.... and then a bright light appeared in the firmament...



I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Offline RedSince86

  • I blame Chris de Burgh
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,284
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2318 on: March 28, 2020, 08:51:40 PM »
Moon and Venus Conjunction tonight.

Luckily clear skies and i'm sure the lack of air pollution in the UK will give everyone a good sight of it.
"Since its purchase by the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, Manchester City has managed to cheat its way into the top echelon of European football and create a global, immensely profitable football empire, ignoring rules along the way. The club's newfound glory is rooted in lies."

Offline LOKKO

  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,681
  • what chu talkin' bout willis?
Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #2319 on: March 29, 2020, 09:52:25 PM »
Glad I got most of the landscape astrophotography shots I wanted before the starlink satellites went up sky is going to be full of them in a years time