Topic: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)

[Bouncer]

Can players opt out of the PFA?
 If I was a player I would tell Taylor to thrig off and I would break away. Who checks him out? Who makes sure he is legit? I can't remember anyone in his position, so why does he have a monopoly that doesn't look like it's going to end.

Thing is this also newsworthy to me !! and how conveniently buried under the current shit storm the FA have confected!

Talk about subverting the interpretation of the law to your own means and designs Mr Taylor ...

Also, isnt it strange that everything is gravitating to Manchester ... PFA head quarters also based in Central Manchester according to the report.

Funnily enough I did try to call the PFA this morning to complain that they werent doing enough to defend a professional footballer but phone rang and rang, didnt even go to Voicemail ... Id hate to be a foreign footballer accused of racism and vilified in the national press and the Clapham Omnibus the week before Christmas ... perhaps Luis isnt a member yet?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-16292670

PFA boss Gordon Taylor cleared of speeding charges 
Gordon Taylor's lawyer said police letters to his client were addressed incorrectly Footballers' trade union boss Gordon Taylor has been cleared of failing to provide police details after two alleged speeding offences.

The chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association (PFA) did not attend Manchester Magistrates Court.

His lawyer Nick Freeman argued "typographical" errors on police papers meant Mr Taylor had to be cleared.

The court heard a PFA registered Jaguar car was twice caught driving faster than the 30mph limit in Lancashire.

'Wrong address'
 
The car, registered to the PFA offices in Manchester, was caught by a speed camera doing 36mph on 25 November 2010, and then caught travelling at 43mph on 11 December 2010, both at Osbaldeston, near Blackburn in Lancashire.

Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
The criminal justice system is not a game, you are here to acquit the innocent and convict the guilty”
End Quote
Bernard Begley
 
Prosecutor
 But Mr Freeman, the celebrity lawyer known as "Mr Loophole", argued that when the Lancashire Police speed ticket office issued letters asking for the driver's details they made a series of errors.

He said the Jaguar car was registered to the PFA at its offices at 20 Oxford Court in Manchester but the Notice of Intended Prosecution letter, and a reminder, were both sent to number 30 - which does not exist.

The lawyer, known for getting acquittals for celebrity clients in seemingly water-tight court cases, said further letters were then sent directly to Mr Taylor, naming him as the registered keeper directly.

Bernard Begley, prosecuting, said "further enquiries" led the letter to be directed to Mr Taylor but this evidence was deemed to have been submitted too late under legal rules.

Mr Begley asked the bench to adjourn the matter to another date for enquiries to be made or witnesses to be brought to court.

'Inconvenience and expense'
 
He said: "The criminal justice system is not a game, you are here to acquit the innocent and convict the guilty."

But Mr Freeman said it was the fault of the Crown Prosecution Service and the defence should not "suffer inconvenience and expense" of adjournment to "plug the holes" in the prosecution case.

The prosecution application was refused.

Mr Freeman also said letters about the second alleged speeding offence were sent incorrectly to the "Players" Footballers Association - not the Professional Footballers' Association.

He added: "In each case there has not been a properly addressed letter sent out to Mr Gordon Taylor and you need to be sure that there was before you can convict. He should be acquitted."

Mr Freeman, whose office is in the same street in central Manchester as the PFA, asked for, and was granted, undisclosed costs to pay for the defence case out of taxpayer funds.

[stoa]

The thing that worries me about all this, and it's pretty simply worded. The FA have made a complete fuck up of the procedure in my humble opinion.

The papers should have been published at the same time as the verdict. All it does is let the 'shit flinging' go on from both sides of the fence. It lets people brand Luis Suarez this and that without actually knowing any of the facts. Suarez himself can't come out and say anything until the papers are released, he can't appeal, and he has to live with being a 'racist' until the FA pull their finger out of their arse.

You're completely right. They knew that this was a delicate case and they know whatever the result was, the media would pick it up. Yet, they have decided to give the verdict and then fuck off for a couple of days, letting it all boil on for a couple of days before laying everything out in the open. It's a disgrace, because whatever it says in there, whatever happens in an appeal, the damage is done. We've seen it on Wednesday and we'll see it again whenever we play away from home or whenever the away-support is good enough to make themselves heard at Anfield. By giving the verdict and not giving any further comment on it, the FA have basically handed Suarez over to an angry mob with his hands tied behind his back.

[OneTouchFooty]

Pepe's facebook message:

Hi all! The first thing I wanted to express my wholehearted support is my comrade and friend Luis Suarez! Everyone on the team are shocked and disappointed with his sanction of 8 games totally unfair that the FA has been imposed. I guarantee that after 1 year with  Luis, the guy is not racist by any means. Everyone in the locker room and in the world of football in general are united against racism and will remain so. But, of course, we are also united in defending our partner about an unfair and excessive charges and penalties. You'll never walk alone! Cheer up! And secondly, I want to congratulate you on the holidays and next year 2012! Your dreams are my best wishes!

[Alan_X]

If the FA couldn't produce the evidence (at least to both clubs if not publically) then I don't see why they had to release the judgement. The fact that it will take min 2 weeks to come out shows that this was a deliberate act from the FA to ensure that they are seen in the best light to the rest of the country and certain sections of UEFA & FIFA.

In a normal court of law, the evidence is laid out to all parties, then judgement is made. The FA knew the sensitivity of such a case, but decided to use it as a political tool.

Can we get this straight. The judgement has been given as in a court of law. What we're waiting for is the detailed paperwork, which in this case will probably run to a lot of pages, including all of the transcripts, the reasons for the judgements, the reasons for the punishment and the relevant precendents.

It's taking longer than it should but it will be published and once it is we can then comment.

[Alan_X]

  Seriously, how can a gang of cowboys sit in legal judgement of a person attempting to carry out  his trade with no legal training. How is it allowed
in a modern democracy with so many controls on what we can say and do?

Fuck's sake! The chair of the panel is a fucking QC!

[Alan_X]

OK five minute timeout - we know you all want your say but for fucks sake - get your facts straight before posting. The amount of ill-informed shite that's on here is embarrassing and does fuck all to suggest to the people who are no doubt reading this that we are doing anything other than defending our player tribally.

If you don't know what you are talking about..... don't post.


Thanks

[Alan_X]

Open again for comment.

[alonsoisared]

Redcafe is pretty funny at the moment, at first it was "the players must not have wrote that statement, they'd be embarrassed", fast forward a couple of hours and they're seen on the pitch wearing Suarez shirts. Then it was "the players must have been made to wear those shirts, I bet Glen Johnson feels uncomfortable and ashamed by it" fast forward a day and Johnson is on twitter defending HIS decision to wear the shirt and support Suarez. "I wonder what John Barnes has to say about it all, a man who suffered racist abuse for years and has always looked to fight it?" yep, John Barnes comes out and defends Suarez because it's obvious to anyone with a brain that a misunderstanding took place. "What a wanker" they cry, before rushing to congratulate the likes of Paul McGrath for condemning Suarez despite his comments defending Desailly's actual obvious racist remarks in the past. I guess Johnson and Barnes must be big bad racists too. Soon enough they'll see past their bias and hatred for Luis and realise he's been fucked over.

To be fair I did have question marks at the start but the more you consider it the more blatant it is that Suarez is innocent of all but a cultural misunderstanding. The arguments from the United "side" all seem to be firstly that he's in England so he should know better. If Evra insulted him in Spanish first as our statement says, then why do we take Suarez's Spanish response and immediately take it in it's English meaning? The word only becomes insulting when translated to English and thus out of context. Everything also seems to be assumptions "suarez must have meant it in a bad way" despite no evidence, "suarez said it multiple times, obviously he was riling him up" evra's word against suarez's, nobody else heard it, where's the evidence? They've had a Uruguayan United fan who's clearly said Negrito isn't racist, their response has been shut up mate it clearly was. They obviously know better.

We've been accused by the entire press of letting tribalism get in the way but for me it's the other way round and United seem all too happy to let a player get absolutely slaughtered and have his name tarnished by an obvious misunderstanding. They seem delighted that all the rags are on their side, laughably, and all along they've been coming out with "would 4 games be a decent result?" etc degenerating the whole thing to Liverpool vs United. We're defending our player because he's being roundly criticised for saying an utterly inoffensive word, they're attacking him because they think he's a vile diving cheating scouser. I'm just glad the club is showing backbone and I really hope we clear his name.

[Davvo7]

It's quite ironic that Sky Sport are still using the "Just can't get enough" chant to advertise their live games. Guess they don't do irony.

[free_at_last]

Fuck's sake! The chair of the panel is a fucking QC!

Well he got it wrong didn't he? Common sense wil tell you that.
 Let them take it to a court of law then not some kangaroo court whose opinions can be bought and sold.

[Kopite72]

Redcafe is pretty funny at the moment, at first it was "the players must not have wrote that statement, they'd be embarrassed", fast forward a couple of hours and they're seen on the pitch wearing Suarez shirts. Then it was "the players must have been made to wear those shirts, I bet Glen Johnson feels uncomfortable and ashamed by it" fast forward a day and Johnson is on twitter defending HIS decision to wear the shirt and support Suarez. "I wonder what John Barnes has to say about it all, a man who suffered racist abuse for years and has always looked to fight it?" yep, John Barnes comes out and defends Suarez because it's obvious to anyone with a brain that a misunderstanding took place. "What a wanker" they cry, before rushing to congratulate the likes of Paul McGrath for condemning Suarez despite his comments defending Desailly's actual obvious racist remarks in the past. I guess Johnson and Barnes must be big bad racists too. Soon enough they'll see past their bias and hatred for Luis and realise he's been fucked over.

To be fair I did have question marks at the start but the more you consider it the more blatant it is that Suarez is innocent of all but a cultural misunderstanding. The arguments from the United "side" all seem to be firstly that he's in England so he should know better. If Evra insulted him in Spanish first as our statement says, then why do we take Suarez's Spanish response and immediately take it in it's English meaning? The word only becomes insulting when translated to English and thus out of context. Everything also seems to be assumptions "suarez must have meant it in a bad way" despite no evidence, "suarez said it multiple times, obviously he was riling him up" evra's word against suarez's, nobody else heard it, where's the evidence? They've had a Uruguayan United fan who's clearly said Negrito isn't racist, their response has been shut up mate it clearly was. They obviously know better.

We've been accused by the entire press of letting tribalism get in the way but for me it's the other way round and United seem all too happy to let a player get absolutely slaughtered and have his name tarnished by an obvious misunderstanding. They seem delighted that all the rags are on their side, laughably, and all along they've been coming out with "would 4 games be a decent result?" etc degenerating the whole thing to Liverpool vs United. We're defending our player because he's being roundly criticised for saying an utterly inoffensive word, they're attacking him because they think he's a vile diving cheating scouser. I'm just glad the club is showing backbone and I really hope we clear his name.

Like we should give a flying fuck what those obsessed twats have to say about us.

Fuck them. Fuck the lot of them. Stinking inbred milltown rats.

[fatherjack]

All i want to say about this is someone somewhere is going to have to get a grip on this issue real soon and kick some commonsense into those in the media who are orchestrating this scandalous campaign to vilify Luis Suarez and those people that support him simply because they genuinely believe that the man is not a racist.

This is starting to get out of control and things that are being said now by folks jumping onto their high horses and bandwagons are actually doing damage to the genuine cause of promoting racial equality in our society.

The FA have messed this up big time and have shown that those at the top at the FA are clueless buffons who are not fit to run such an organisation. I think that if something is not done to calm this madness down then racial tensions that are being enflamed by the media could well lead to violence on our streets.

[Alan_X]

Paul Davis, Daily Mail 22nd December 2011:

In this country we’ve come a really long way, we should continue to remind ourselves of that and keep patting ourselves on the back.

But we also need to keep improving and get to a place where discrimination has nothing to do with the game.

I suspect Liverpool will appeal against Luis Suarez’s ban but there’s no reason why the ban should be reduced.

I don’t see why an appeal would bring up a different verdict in this respect. It’s the FA saying this sort of behaviour cannot be accepted.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2077258/Paul-Davis-No-time-complacency-fight-racism.html


Sportsmail comment 21st December 2011:

But when the issue is something as serious as racism, our football clubs also need to remember that they have a responsibility to the society in which we all live. One that right-minded people want to see rid of racial prejudice.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2077234/Chelsea-Liverpools-loyalty-Luis-Suarez-John-Terry.html

Pretty unequivocal there then. Or maybe rewind to October:

Football might not be perfect but it's come a long way since racism in the 1970s

By Steve Doughty

Last updated at 6:02 PM on 26th October 2011

A few years ago I made the mistake of taking a fashionable guide book along on a trip to Spain. Aside from lecturing me on what an injustice it is that Gibraltar remains British, it was scathing about the iniquities of bullfighting. The real spirit of Spain, the true family sport, the guidebook said, was football.

So it was interesting shortly afterwards to watch those family-minded Spanish football fans treating black England players to savage racial abuse during a friendly match in Madrid, complete with monkey chants of the crudest kind.

Around the same time, Spain’s national football manager referred to black French player Thierry Henry in vicious terms during a training session, and was as a result subjected to a very minor fine.

Just to show that less than liberal views are not confined to Spain’s football crowds, its motor sport fans blacked up specially to goad British driver Lewis Hamilton at a Formula One race. Apologists explained that in Spain when they make fun of the colour of your skin, it’s not racism, dear me no.
 
When we read about British footballers levelling complaints of racism against each other, it’s worth making the comparison with what passes as everyday behaviour in a nearby country we are often invited to admire.

It may or may not be that the charges laid by Manchester United’s Patrice Evra against Liverpool’s Luis Suarez are well founded. The same goes for the allegations by Anton Ferdinand of QPR against John Terry of Chelsea – although given Terry’s general level of conduct racial abuse of an opponent would be pretty ordinary stuff.

But the horrid and open abuse of the past is gone. When crowds pick on black players these days it is the exception, and the fact is quickly reported and condemned. Any player who resorts to racial slurs against an opponent or a team-mate risks exposure and humiliation. Every club seems to be promoting a kick racism out of football campaign, beyond the point of boredom.

This is not to deny that it has been a long hard road for black footballers. When I was a child it was a commonplace that black players were talented but lightweight, so sports writers would say the Brazil team of the 1960s were great because they had creative black forwards and steady, dependable, white defenders.

Black players in England had to work against the assumption that they would crack swiftly under pressure, a view that helped them get a particularly rough reception from opposing teams.

When the breakthrough came in the 1970s, and Viv Anderson became the first black footballer to play for England in modern times, the week-in week-out taunting of black players continued. I was a regular at Stoke City watching an able young winger called Garth Crooks, and you would not want to put up with the kind of thing he endured on a regular basis.

Things have changed, and they have changed with the switch of mood at big-time football grounds which means you are now more likely to be assaulted at your local cinema multiplex than at a Premier League match.

I remember the last time I took my elderly mother to watch a game at Highbury before they knocked it down. We took our seats in the East Stand to the sound of typical North London football fan conversation around us: ‘Where’s Lucy today?’ ‘Oh, she couldn’t make it this time, she had to marinate the lamb in rosemary.’

In the second half Arsenal sent on an African forward called Kanu. Kanu could either be brilliant or spend all afternoon falling over the ball. On this occasion he kept falling over the ball. A youngish bloke sitting in front of us lost his temper after one particularly ludicrous pratfall and yelled, at the top of his voice, something about ‘you black b*****d’.

There was a terrible silence.

The bloke leaped up and wheeled round 180 degrees in the same movement, shoved his face straight in front of my mother’s, and said in firm and formal tones: ‘I’m terribly sorry about the racist comment.’

You could not imagine such a thing happening at a football match 30 years ago. Football reflects us all as it always did, and these days it’s both racist and not racist at the same time. Things may not be perfect but, at the end of the day, Gary, there are worse things to complain about.

So, Mr Evra and Mr Ferdinand, I know you feel insulted. But perhaps in this case you could just put up with it and get on with the game.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2052843/John-Terry-racism-row-Anton-Ferdinand-game.html#ixzz1hMzgQSuc

Err ok....

[Dr Manhattan]

Truly ridiculous.

Entirely predictable.

Totally unsurprising.

[bleedsred1978]

Nice to see the tone was raised after Alan's intervention.

Come on folks we can do better than this.

[steveeastend]

Evra started the witch hunt cause he knew right from the beginning how this would be ending up. He used a very sensible issue in order to make him look better and destroy someones repuation with just about nothing cause that´s what it is considering the language used on a football pitch on a regular basis.

It´s like playing with matches and then being surprised that it might could cause some big fire.

Evra should have a strong word with himself.

[alonsoisared]

Like we should give a flying fuck what those obsessed twats have to say about us.

Fuck them. Fuck the lot of them. Stinking inbred milltown rats.

Over normal footballing matters i'd agree with you but this whole thing is far more serious. Their ignorance is basically the exact same ignorance we're seeing all across the press which in turn is hugely influential over the FA and is something that needs to be put right if Suarez is to have his name cleared.

[Matt8Pie]

As I've said in other threads, I'd be more outraged and amazed if I didn't expect it.

[Alan_X]

Well he got it wrong didn't he? Common sense wil tell you that.
 Let them take it to a court of law then not some kangaroo court whose opinions can be bought and sold.

Listen mate, if you want to post shite do it on another forum. We have higher standards than this.

[Mighty_Red]

Can we get this straight. The judgement has been given as in a court of law. What we're waiting for is the detailed paperwork, which in this case will probably run to a lot of pages, including all of the transcripts, the reasons for the judgements, the reasons for the punishment and the relevant precendents.

It's taking longer than it should but it will be published and once it is we can then comment.

That's my point though - Forget the public for a moment, the evidence should be released to both clubs straight after the verdict.

With a case that they knew would be contraversial no matter what the outcome, they have a duty to make this process as transparent as possible. If they couldn't produce the evidence within a short timescale (i.e. within a couple of days) then the judgement should've been postponed until then.

If the evidence they have is not in a fit state to be seen by the club's lawyers, you have to question whether it was in a fit state to be seen by the panel.

[steveeastend]

Redcafe is pretty funny at the moment, at first it was "the players must not have wrote that statement, they'd be embarrassed", fast forward a couple of hours and they're seen on the pitch wearing Suarez shirts. Then it was "the players must have been made to wear those shirts, I bet Glen Johnson feels uncomfortable and ashamed by it" fast forward a day and Johnson is on twitter defending HIS decision to wear the shirt and support Suarez. "I wonder what John Barnes has to say about it all, a man who suffered racist abuse for years and has always looked to fight it?" yep, John Barnes comes out and defends Suarez because it's obvious to anyone with a brain that a misunderstanding took place. "What a wanker" they cry, before rushing to congratulate the likes of Paul McGrath for condemning Suarez despite his comments defending Desailly's actual obvious racist remarks in the past. I guess Johnson and Barnes must be big bad racists too. Soon enough they'll see past their bias and hatred for Luis and realise he's been fucked over.

To be fair I did have question marks at the start but the more you consider it the more blatant it is that Suarez is innocent of all but a cultural misunderstanding. The arguments from the United "side" all seem to be firstly that he's in England so he should know better. If Evra insulted him in Spanish first as our statement says, then why do we take Suarez's Spanish response and immediately take it in it's English meaning? The word only becomes insulting when translated to English and thus out of context. Everything also seems to be assumptions "suarez must have meant it in a bad way" despite no evidence, "suarez said it multiple times, obviously he was riling him up" evra's word against suarez's, nobody else heard it, where's the evidence? They've had a Uruguayan United fan who's clearly said Negrito isn't racist, their response has been shut up mate it clearly was. They obviously know better.

We've been accused by the entire press of letting tribalism get in the way but for me it's the other way round and United seem all too happy to let a player get absolutely slaughtered and have his name tarnished by an obvious misunderstanding. They seem delighted that all the rags are on their side, laughably, and all along they've been coming out with "would 4 games be a decent result?" etc degenerating the whole thing to Liverpool vs United. We're defending our player because he's being roundly criticised for saying an utterly inoffensive word, they're attacking him because they think he's a vile diving cheating scouser. I'm just glad the club is showing backbone and I really hope we clear his name.

Great post.

[free_at_last]

Listen mate, if you want to post shite do it on another forum. We have higher standards than this.

You've got to be joking. So you're defending the F.A against one of our players on a trumped up charge in collaboration with man united.
 Yes I must be on the wrong website.

[Dr Manhattan]

You've got to be joking. So you're defending the F.A against one of our players on a trumped up charge in collaboration with man united.
 Yes I must be on the wrong website.

Not very bright, are you?

[fatherjack]

That's my point though - Forget the public for a moment, the evidence should be released to both clubs straight after the verdict.

With a case that they knew would be contraversial no matter what the outcome, they have a duty to make this process as transparent as possible. If they couldn't produce the evidence within a short timescale (i.e. within a couple of days) then the judgement should've been postponed until then.

If the evidence they have is not in a fit state to be seen by the club's lawyers, you have to question whether it was in a fit state to be seen by the panel.

I saw a blog from a a guy yesterday and this guy stated that he was a lawyer himself. He said that he was always uncomfortable when a judge stated at the end of a case that he would give his reasons at a later date for his findings in the case. This lawyer guy stated that he always had the uneasy feeling that when a judge stated something like that it was merely just a ploy to give the judge more time to come up with something that suited and justified his ruling. I have a feeling the FA are doing exactly that with their findings regarding the Evra accusation against Luis.

[gerrardsarmy]

One thing I think that is going to come out of this is that we could see major changes to racism laws in football. We may also see changes to the process of governing serious offences like racism charges. I for one think changes to procedure and the laws are absoloutely necessary, whether the FA make the right decision or not, it's pretty safe to say that the procedure with which this matter has been dealt has been shocking.

[lionel_messias]

Open again for comment.

I really think we have thrown ourselves open to be accused of acting tribally on here. We need to see to full ruling but so many people are spouting theories based on speculation around language and intent. How comfortable are we about the amount of people throwing around racial epithets in inverted commas on here too?

I personally don't care what Man united fans or supporters of other teams think, in their own tribal ways. I do care about Liverpool supporters being seeing as fair minded, balanced and YES, lets say it: against racial abuse, or perceived racial abuse. Let's look at the full ruling and be able to comment on balance on whether Luis said something he should not have said...and crucially whether the argument of cultural differences actually can withstand proper scrutiny.


I think I am saying, we support our player but we must do it with two eyes and not one.

Many hate political correctness but we can be fair minded too. Can't we?

[bleedsred1978]

That's my point though - Forget the public for a moment, the evidence should be released to both clubs straight after the verdict.

With a case that they knew would be contraversial no matter what the outcome, they have a duty to make this process as transparent as possible. If they couldn't produce the evidence within a short timescale (i.e. within a couple of days) then the judgement should've been postponed until then.

If the evidence they have is not in a fit state to be seen by the club's lawyers, you have to question whether it was in a fit state to be seen by the panel.

Fully agree with that. I feel that's the real crux of the issue.

There may be a valid reason for their decision, there may not be, but the manner and timescales between judgement and follow on paperwork is nothing short of a scandal imo.

The mud is sticking as we speak.

[cashmere pringle]

am i right in thinking that the FA are due to release the documents today ? 

has anybody heard anything ?

[Beav]

Vintage Daily Mail hypocrisy.

[yes]

To be honest that's no worse than the embarrassing faux-naivety that's been on show in here ever since the verdict was passed down. People feigning ignorance about what is and isn't acceptable to say in a progressive 21st century country.

Either that or they are just genuinely stupid.

[greyfade]

According to the FA, the best player in the world along with the entire Argentina squad and FA are racists.

[HiroProtagonist]

I fucking love Pepe.

[free_at_last]

Not very bright, are you?

Hey - you obviously are - please enlighten me

[gerrardsarmy]

I really think we have thrown ourselves open to be accused of acting tribally on here. We need to see to full ruling but so many people are spouting theories based on speculation around language and intent. How comfortable are we about the amount of people throwing around racial epithets in inverted commas on here too?

I personally don't care what Man united fans or supporters of other teams think, in their own tribal ways. I do care about Liverpool supporters being seeing as fair minded, balanced and YES, lets say it: against racial abuse, or perceived racial abuse. Let's look at the full ruling and be able to comment on balance on whether Luis said something he should not have said...and crucially whether the argument of cultural differences actually can withstand proper scrutiny.


I think I am saying, we support our player but we must do it with two eyes and not one.

Many hate political correctness but we can be fair minded too. Can't we?

But surely all this speculation could have been avoided if we were given the facts of the case and the reasoning behind that verdict when we received the verdict?

[Pistolero]

To be honest that's no worse than the embarrassing faux-naivety that's been on show in here ever since the verdict was passed down. People feigning ignorance about what is and isn't acceptable to say in a progressive 21st century country.

Either that or they are just genuinely stupid.

you're wrong. It is worse

[Zeb]

I saw a blog from a a guy yesterday and this guy stated that he was a lawyer himself. He said that he was always uncomfortable when a judge stated at the end of a case that he would give his reasons at a later date for his findings in the case. This lawyer guy stated that he always had the uneasy feeling that when a judge stated something like that it was merely just a ploy to give the judge more time to come up with something that suited and justified his ruling. I have a feeling the FA are doing exactly that with their findings regarding the Evra accusation against Luis.

It's fairly normal. The documentation for this case will no doubt be very lengthy given the length of time the process has taken. QPR case over whether or not they should be docked points went to close to 90 pages and wasn't put out until 2 or 3 weeks after the judgement had been given. It's not unusual. It's not specific to Liverpool. It'll be a very detailed summary of every aspect of the case and something worth reading before jumping to conclusions about anything beyond Kenny and the club are still absolutely adamant that Suarez has done nothing wrong here.

[cashmere pringle]

According to the FA, the best player in the world along with the entire Argentina squad and FA are racists.

while fans of other teams delight at getting one over  Liverpool the rest of the footballing world must think the english are proper tits

[Eeyore]

That's my point though - Forget the public for a moment, the evidence should be released to both clubs straight after the verdict.

With a case that they knew would be contraversial no matter what the outcome, they have a duty to make this process as transparent as possible. If they couldn't produce the evidence within a short timescale (i.e. within a couple of days) then the judgement should've been postponed until then.

If the evidence they have is not in a fit state to be seen by the club's lawyers, you have to question whether it was in a fit state to be seen by the panel.

The evidence has been seen by the Club's Lawyers they actually created a legal defence that addressed that evidence and the Club's statement mentions that Evra admitted insulting Suarez and stated during his evidence that Evra didn't think Suarez was racist.

What hasn't been released is the the reasons for the judgement and the reasons for the punishment.

[Alan_X]

To be honest that's no worse than the embarrassing faux-naivety that's been on show in here ever since the verdict was passed down. People feigning ignorance about what is and isn't acceptable to say in a progressive 21st century country.

Either that or they are just genuinely stupid.

You what?

In the first place - The Daily Mail is a national newspaper and we are an open website. Take it from there why don't you?

[steveeastend]

Different people, different "opinions". As much as I find this double standards to be utterly wrong it doesn´t surprise me as it´s coming from journalist.

I am just surprised that the F.A. seems to have every right to do whatever they want without any reasonable argumentation in order to have a verdict in line of the standards of european law (I don´t have enough knowledge on the english one but expect it similar in the important issues).