Topic: The Adam and Lucas partnership.

[fewmin' bedwetter]

Fucking hell, some of the shit Adam's getting in here is beyond a joke.

This. Staggering.

[rossipersempre]

To be frank, I am more worried about the judgement that Dalglish and Commoli have shown so far than the performance of the players concerned. I did not expect much from Adam, Carroll, Downing, (though I was pleasantly surprised fro the first couple of games where Downing was concerned) and Henderson, and unfortunately I was not wrong.  With Benitez, you could understand and appreciate the nous that he had and the rationale that he had for choosing players. Even when a mistake was made, he fixed it ruthlessly and immediately (Keane and Dossena as examples). With the current management team, my initial optimism has since evaporated and I am increasingly concerned and worried. It isnowhere as dire as with was under Hodgson when he got al,most everything wrong, but with CL next season at stake, there is very little margin for error that is left for them to make.

You're not alone in those thoughts. And I bet there's only a tip of the iceberg of posters who are willing to admit it in print.

[rossipersempre]

This. Staggering.

You're right, once again we have the best midfield in the world and the likes of Alonso and Riquelme pale into insignificance compared to the talent and performances of Charlie Adam.

[fewmin' bedwetter]

You're right, once again we have the best midfield in the world and the likes of Alonso and Riquelme pale into insignificance compared to the talent and performances of Charlie Adam.

Did you see the Man United game?

[Sangria]

Did you see the Man United game?

Which one? The 1-1 this season, or the 4-1 where Alonso dominated the Man Utd midfield and was constantly spreading the ball with unerring accuracy to the wings?

[RedMichelFerri]

Which one? The 1-1 this season, or the 4-1 where Alonso dominated the Man Utd midfield and was constantly spreading the ball with unerring accuracy to the wings?

[rossipersempre]

Which one? The 1-1 this season, or the 4-1 where Alonso dominated the Man Utd midfield and was constantly spreading the ball with unerring accuracy to the wings?

Quite. Not forgetting that the United who came to Anfield last month were as shite a team as they've ever been. Until they entertained City a few weeks later of course.

[Robin]

I don't know if i am able to make any comments about Adam here. I got a warning for criticizing him.

[rossipersempre]

I don't know if i am able to make any comments about Adam here. I got a warning for criticizing him.

We've all been there mate. Deep breath and speak your mind.

[Robin]

I will reserve my comments about him after the season.

So far, as i said, he is a poor-man Alonso. He seems to be a time-bomb that might get sent off unnecessary. I hope he gets better as time goes by.

[rossipersempre]

I will reserve my comments about him after the season.

So far, as i said, he is a poor-man Alonso. He seems to be a time-bomb that might get sent off unnecessary. I hope he gets better as time goes by.

You disappoint me with such a low level of vitriol. You may as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb as they say.

Seriously though, you can't even begin to compare the two players on any level. It's embarrassing really.

[Robin]

As much as i want Adam to be in the same level.

[leivapool]

I don't know if i am able to make any comments about Adam here. I got a warning for criticizing him.

You don't get a warning for giving an honest opinion on players you like/don't like.  You usually get a warning for the way you comment or for getting involved in personal insult trading..  For example, it's not OK to say player X is shit.  It is however OK to discuss a players strengths and weaknesses.  It's not what you say, rather how you say it.

[Tony19:6]

I don't know if i am able to make any comments about Adam here. I got a warning for criticizing him.

Hasnt stopped anyone else.

[Litmanen Legend]

Which one? The 1-1 this season, or the 4-1 where Alonso dominated the Man Utd midfield and was constantly spreading the ball with unerring accuracy to the wings?

ummmmm Alonso did not play in the 4-1 against Man Utd. Mascherano and Lucas played in midfield. Try again?   

[fewmin' bedwetter]

Which one? The 1-1 this season, or the 4-1 where Alonso dominated the Man Utd midfield and was constantly spreading the ball with unerring accuracy to the wings?

My point had nothing whatsoever to do with Alonso, you've got the wrong end of the stick there. My point is that Charlie Adam is actually a pretty good player, not the complete pile of shit pub player which some on here, like you, seem to be implying. I for one am happy that Kenny brought him in, and pleased with the way he's playing.

[leivapool]

ummmmm Alonso did not play in the 4-1 against Man Utd. Mascherano and Lucas played in midfield. Try again?   

How do I get that fish on a  hook emoticon?

Sangria knows very well that it wasn't Alonso but  Lucas who was spraying balls all around the park in that game.  He's testing the knowledge of other posters.

[RedMichelFerri]

ummmmm Alonso did not play in the 4-1 against Man Utd. Mascherano and Lucas played in midfield. Try again?   

1st catch of the day so far

[Camarero25]

"Adam is a poor man's Alonso" doesn't really ring true for me. Apart from the fact they both like to play a long ball, and they both like to shoot from the half way line (Adam does this annoyingly frequently), I don't really see the similarities.

One of Alonso's greatest strengths is his impeccable positioning and reading of the game, as well as his ability to always pick the right pass and to be available for his team mates at all times.

As far as these attributes are concerned, Adam is not even in the same Universe as Alonso. He always seems to be trying to force it, and go for the killer ball. The less said about his positioning, the better, and his ability to find space to offer for an easy pass appears limited. I do feel that Adam has it in him to be a good player, his technique is superb, he has a great passing range and a hell of a shot. However, he has an awful lot to learn, and, at the age of 26, whether he will ever learn the key traits to make him a really good player is doubtful.

At the moment, if we want to accommodate him into the side, I feel we need to play at least two other players to cover his weaknesses. This would be acceptable if he was an outrageous talent, such as Gerrard in the 2008/09 season. Unfortunately for Charlie, he's nowhere near that level, and if we're going to set up a system to get the best out of any player, it should be Suarez.

[rossipersempre]

My point had nothing whatsoever to do with Alonso, you've got the wrong end of the stick there. My point is that Charlie Adam is actually a pretty good player, not the complete pile of shit pub player which some on here, like you, seem to be implying. I for one am happy that Kenny brought him in, and pleased with the way he's playing.

Are you also pleased that the likes of Swansea are able to boss our midfield at Anfield, whilst Adam seems to pull himself up a leather armchair and grab some popcorn?

Just goes to show just how low some people's expectations and aspirations are.

[Buzz Killington]

Quite agree. I find all this Adam negative sentiment quite staggering, I really do. As for the Lucas worship, tell me it's a massive RAWK wind-up - please!!

It's funny cos you're exactly the same, just the other way around. The last bit of your post just makes you look like a tit. 

[Litmanen Legend]

Which one? The 1-1 this season, or the 4-1 where Alonso dominated the Man Utd midfield and was constantly spreading the ball with unerring accuracy to the wings?

It was soooooooo unerring that no-one actually saw him spreading the ball that day. Ghost-Alonso? haha 

[rossipersempre]

1st catch of the day so far

Sami also played a big part in helping dominate that game. But there's countless others where Xabi ran masterclass after masterclass.

Yes, we played well (with little ultimate reward) in the United game just gone, but then equally their midfield was seemingly comprised of wet bog paper. A more accurate assessment of our midfield level was getting humiliated by Spurs, a game that Adam would prefer to forget. Compare and contrast to how a 34-year old Danny Murphy (who as Yorky keenly pointed out, stopped being good enough for us in 2004) performed against the same midfield last weekend.

[rossipersempre]

Oh and I'm referring to the first 27 minutes preceding Adam picking up his second yellow card (that was some doing it has to be said). The half-hour where he looked totally lost and out of his depth.

[Hazell]

It was soooooooo unerring that no-one actually saw him spreading the ball that day. Ghost-Alonso? haha 

No one except Jamie Redknapp.

[fewmin' bedwetter]

It's funny cos you're exactly the same, just the other way around. The last bit of your post just makes you look like a tit.

Would I pick Adam over Lucas? Yes. Would I pick Spearing over Lucas? Yes. Do I believe Lucas should be one of the first names on the teamsheet? No. I can see what he offers defensively, and he's got loads of spirit, but with the ball, particularly in games at home like the Swansea one, we need a bit more. Compare our DF with theirs on the day, Leon Britton, and you can see what a more creative, progressive player at the fulcrum can do. However, unlike some on here, I wouldn't put all the blame at the feet of one player - in the case of that game, there were many reasons why their midfield dominated ours - three in the middle against 4-4-2, nothing-to-lose mentality against Anfield nervousness etc.

[Camarero25]

Would I pick Adam over Lucas? Yes. Would I pick Spearing over Lucas? Yes. Do I believe Lucas should be one of the first names on the teamsheet? No. I can see what he offers defensively, and he's got loads of spirit, but with the ball, particularly in games at home like the Swansea one, we need a bit more. Compare our DF with theirs on the day, Leon Britton, and you can see what a more creative, progressive player at the fulcrum can do. However, unlike some on here, I wouldn't put all the blame at the feet of one player - in the case of that game, there were many reasons why their midfield dominated ours - three in the middle against 4-4-2, nothing-to-lose mentality against Anfield nervousness etc.

We replace Lucas with Spearing and we'll have the exact same problems we've had so far this season.

[Matt8Pie]

Would I pick Adam over Lucas? Yes. Would I pick Spearing over Lucas? Yes. Do I believe Lucas should be one of the first names on the teamsheet? No. I can see what he offers defensively, and he's got loads of spirit, but with the ball, particularly in games at home like the Swansea one, we need a bit more. Compare our DF with theirs on the day, Leon Britton, and you can see what a more creative, progressive player at the fulcrum can do. However, unlike some on here, I wouldn't put all the blame at the feet of one player - in the case of that game, there were many reasons why their midfield dominated ours - three in the middle against 4-4-2, nothing-to-lose mentality against Anfield nervousness etc.

What, you mean like another player?

No, you probably don't mean that but it's what we needed against Swansea. A 3 man midfield will always dominate a 2 man midfield even if the 2 are world class internationals.

Charlie Adam has shown me so far that he is no better than average with the ability once out of five of hitting a killer pass and a decent shot which disguises a lot of his faults which the Match of the Day crew fail to pick up on.

[jolabode]

off the ball - adam doesn't want to know about defensive duties, doesn't track runners, doesn't find space, doesn't show for the full backs for them to give him simple balls and keep moves ticking over, he doesn't provide a link for the full backs and wingers and is very slow, too slow to support counter attacks, which leaves the forwards outnumbered. this is a huge cause of our current problems. also its one of the reasons henderson is always out of position in the middle of the park. Just watch what he is doing when he's not near the ball, you'll have to be at the match for this, but he does nothing, just stands still being marked.
On the ball - He's pretty good. he can only play as part of a midfield three or we'll continue to see away teams come to anfield and exploit this weakness. As previosuly said if he had a very high energy player alongside him, then possibly he could play as a two but he needs to step up his movement.

Everything you mentioned was obvious when he played for Blackpool last season so it makes you wonder why Kenny was so keen on him.  The negatives in his game far outweigh the positives.  Adam is defo the weak link in the middle of the park.  I can never understand why people only see the odd long pass he successfully completes in a game and aren't bothered about the number of times he gives it away.

I hear some pundits like Hansen, Ray Houghton, lawro  (all Kenny's mates) saying Charlie Adam has settled in quite well which just makes you wonder - Do they go to games or just watch the highlights that include Charlie's eye catching set piece or long passes.

You also have to be concerned with Kenny's tactics of playing Adam in a 442; he's never a 442 player.

[Sangria]

Would I pick Adam over Lucas? Yes. Would I pick Spearing over Lucas? Yes. Do I believe Lucas should be one of the first names on the teamsheet? No. I can see what he offers defensively, and he's got loads of spirit, but with the ball, particularly in games at home like the Swansea one, we need a bit more. Compare our DF with theirs on the day, Leon Britton, and you can see what a more creative, progressive player at the fulcrum can do. However, unlike some on here, I wouldn't put all the blame at the feet of one player - in the case of that game, there were many reasons why their midfield dominated ours - three in the middle against 4-4-2, nothing-to-lose mentality against Anfield nervousness etc.

It says everything that all you can see in Lucas is spirit, physicality, and so on. Head over to Brazil, and their predominant view of him is his technical skill, rather than the ruggedness that they've been used to seeing from their volantes for the last 20 years. Not that they'd know anything about technical players of course, as Brazil aren't exactly known for them. The player they most commonly compare Lucas with is Falcao, another of those talentless hardworking cloggers that Brazil keep churning out.

[leivapool]

Would I pick Adam over Lucas? Yes. Would I pick Spearing over Lucas? Yes. Do I believe Lucas should be one of the first names on the teamsheet? No. I can see what he offers defensively, and he's got loads of spirit, but with the ball, particularly in games at home like the Swansea one, we need a bit more. Compare our DF with theirs on the day, Leon Britton, and you can see what a more creative, progressive player at the fulcrum can do. However, unlike some on here, I wouldn't put all the blame at the feet of one player - in the case of that game, there were many reasons why their midfield dominated ours - three in the middle against 4-4-2, nothing-to-lose mentality against Anfield nervousness etc.

What do you look for when you watch a player?  i.e when you watch Lucas play, what do you actually SEE him do?

[redk84]

shoot them both and put coady and spearing in there

[Strummer77]

He's good in a 3 man CM, poor in a 2.

That is all.

[rossipersempre]

Would I pick Adam over Lucas? Yes. Would I pick Spearing over Lucas? Yes. Do I believe Lucas should be one of the first names on the teamsheet? No.

It's a fucking good job you're not in charge of the Seleção isn't it?

[rossipersempre]

Everything you mentioned was obvious when he played for Blackpool last season so it makes you wonder why Kenny was so keen on him.

It's baffling isn't it?

[fewmin' bedwetter]

What, you mean like another player?

No, you probably don't mean that but it's what we needed against Swansea. A 3 man midfield will always dominate a 2 man midfield even if the 2 are world class internationals.

Charlie Adam has shown me so far that he is no better than average with the ability once out of five of hitting a killer pass and a decent shot which disguises a lot of his faults which the Match of the Day crew fail to pick up on.

Fair enough, you're disappointed with what Charlie Adam has done so far, as it seems are a lot of people, it's all about opinions. As I've said, I reckon he's done pretty well. Take a home game against Swansea, I'd rather go with Adam and Spearing (if we're going with a 4-4-2) as I believe the passing and moving and creativity would be better.

[rossipersempre]

Fair enough, you're disappointed with what Charlie Adam has done so far, as it seems are a lot of people, it's all about opinions. As I've said, I reckon he's done pretty well. Take a home game against Swansea, I'd rather go with Adam and Spearing (if we're going with a 4-4-2) as I believe the passing and moving and creativity would be better.

Explain how you think swapping out Lucas for Spearing would improve our creativity and movement. I can't wait to hear it.

[Matt8Pie]

Fair enough, you're disappointed with what Charlie Adam has done so far, as it seems are a lot of people, it's all about opinions. As I've said, I reckon he's done pretty well. Take a home game against Swansea, I'd rather go with Adam and Spearing (if we're going with a 4-4-2) as I believe the passing and moving and creativity would be better.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/lucas-our-most-accurate-passer

I'd rather go with Lucas and Spearing both of whom can get forward and defend.

[fewmin' bedwetter]

It's a fucking good job you're not in charge of the Seleção isn't it?

Er, yeah... What's that, the loony asylum? Better get your application in, Rossi me ol' mucker!

[Sangria]

Fair enough, you're disappointed with what Charlie Adam has done so far, as it seems are a lot of people, it's all about opinions. As I've said, I reckon he's done pretty well. Take a home game against Swansea, I'd rather go with Adam and Spearing (if we're going with a 4-4-2) as I believe the passing and moving and creativity would be better.

How would you define passing and moving and creativity, and how would you organise it so that Adam and Spearing would work better in the absence of Lucas?