Topic: Newcastle - RIP Jamal Khashoggi; Free Salma al-Shehab

[DdeGea]

that whole run from march onwards was exceptional, Madrid away, home, mancs away, villa home 5-0 barcodes 3 or 4-0, Blackburn 4-1,  fanastic balance and  endurance so much so we purring come the end of that season

But what did you win?

[Floydy]

But what did you win?

that wasn't the point though was it, so why dont you fuck off back to the shitocat thread and stop provoking shite when genuine football discussions are taking place

[DdeGea]

that wasn't the point though was it, so why dont you fuck off back to the shitocat thread and stop provoking shite when genuine football discussions are taking place

Hook, line and sinker.

[Anywhichwayicant]

Hmmm if you're saying achievements don't have a factor in judging the quality of a coach, I don't really agree. I'd also say Klopp's Liverpool at it's absolute best (Arsenal games, City thrashing etc) has been better than any Rafa side I've seen.

We struggle to break down the dross in the league. That against a well regimented defence with lethal attacking options.

I can't see it ending too well for our current iteration. We were lethal on the counter back then too and they'd wipe the floor against our current defence.

Imagine Alonso, Masch and Gerrard against our current midfield.

[rowan_d]

That 08/09 team is easily the best Liverpool team I've seen

Massive shame that the parts didn't come together for long enough to win anything. Wonder what could have been if we'd gone 4-2-3-1 a season earlier, which got the best out of Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano, and created a position for Kuyt to play his best football for us. Unfortunately 3 of that first 11 were horribly injury prone too, in Agger, Aurelio and Torres.

Also coincided with Man Utd having a pretty incredible defense without sacrificing the goals needed to win matches, didn't they get like 11 clean sheets in a row in the middle of that season?

Speaking of Mascherano, as successful as he's been for Barca, I think its a bit of a shame that he went somewhere he wouldn't play DM as often. He's world class in that position. Was anyway, not watched Argentina recently.

Unfortunately can't see Rafa ever coming back here (obviously the ideal situation is that he never has to.) The same fucking idiots who wanted him out the first time and seemed to be the loudest at the time would see to that. Not to get all conspiratorial, but there genuinely seemed to be an effort to get him out amongst the media throughout his time here. Even when we were doing well, you couldn't go 3 weeks without some report or other coming out that suggested he was on the verge of being sacked.

[WisconsinRed]

He's in the top 3 most popular managers we've ever had.  I don't know where he would sit in that top 3 as it's impossible to know.  I can tell you that I don't know a single person who dislikes him or wants him gone.  I sometimes hear a person or two questioning his team selection but that's it and they'll usually end it with "in Rafa we trust" or something similar.

I would say that he's got as close to 100% backing of the fans as you can get.  He's got that because he's a hell of a manager and he's also a hell of a person.

I still miss Rafa. I'd have him back in a heartbeat. Great manager great man.

I had so many arguments with other LFC fans when he was sacked. It took me so long to get over him leaving. Getting hodgson in after him didn't help like 😂.

I'm jealous of you lot.

[Toon-Mick]

I still miss Rafa. I'd have him back in a heartbeat. Great manager great man.

I had so many arguments with other LFC fans when he was sacked. It took me so long to get over him leaving. Getting hodgson in after him didn't help like 😂.

I'm jealous of you lot.

Last weekend I was getting ready to go to the match and I burst out laughing when I thought about Rafa being at the club, I don't think I've done that about any other manager because we have no right to have him at our club.   It was different when Keegan and Bobby managed us because they had ties to the club, this is actually different because somehow we managed to attract Rafa and that's surreal and I don't think I'll ever take him for granted.

Hopefully we'll get owners who appreciate what they have in Rafa, if we do we're in for some exciting times in the not too distant future because he's the one person at the club who could potentially get us punching above our weight and we haven't even punched at our weight for a long time. 

[Floydy]

Hook, line and sinker.

ooohhh  you are so clever and i walked right into your trap, silly me.  what a sad twat you are hanging around on opposition forums, i mean seriously if that isnt attention seeking i dont know what is.  infact that is the only role for some half baked manc who probably views scouse baiting as more important/passionate than supporting their own team. Very strange indeed.

[Toon-Mick]

ooohhh  you are so clever and i walked right into your trap, silly me.  what a sad twat you are hanging around on opposition forums, i mean seriously if that isnt attention seeking i dont know what is.  infact that is the only role for some half baked manc who probably views scouse baiting as more important/passionate than supporting their own team. Very strange indeed.

That could be said about a few of us, I think the difference is that some people try to point score without actually adding anything to the debate.

[rowan_d]

Yep

Its great having fans of other clubs here, but at least get your feet under the table before trolling.

[Floydy]

That could be said about a few of us, I think the difference is that some people try to point score without actually adding anything to the debate.

agreed was not calling out those from other clubs who enjoy and contribute and have come to be appreciated on RAWK, but this guy is an exception and is a  bit embarrassing

[disgraced cake]

On the earlier subject of him at Madrid, I don't think he did fail there. He got hounded out because the fans/directors at the club are fucking bellends. He won the vast majority of his matches there, many of which very convincingly (as you'd probably expect a team of Madrid's resources to do.

Firstly, if they'd kept Rafa on, they'd have still won the European cup. Their run to the final wasn't anything special if I remember, but I think they sacked him in about January, before the knockout rounds began.

Also, they ended up finishing just a point behind Barcelona, and even though they ended the season very strongly under Zidane, Benitez had them in a stronger position to challenge at one point. They were playing catch up at the end and only finished a point behind because Barca had a poor run of games before winning the title on the last day.

Even if he did stay on for the entire season without winning anything, you can basically guarantee he'd have won them the title and european cup sooner rather than later, not like they'd ever give him the time do so.

[Yiannis]

My God.

[4pool]

Fuck me someone just needs to bring up net spend and this Rafa thread is complete.

And zonal marking...

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

That could be said about a few of us, I think the difference is that some people try to point score without actually adding anything to the debate.

Yeah the likes of you and Paully are great to have around. It's not just about the Benitez connection, there are Arsenal, Spurs, City fans on here whose teams usually do better who are good around the place too.


And b&w Paul's been here so long he's practically a founding member

It just doesn't work that well with red Mancs (nor Chelsea!)

[Clint Eastwood]

The 2009 era team would beat the Klopp Liverpool team easily.

                            Reina

Arbeloa        Hypiya      Agger       Aurelio

                   Masch        Alonso
     
    Kuyt               Gerrard           Benayoun

                            Torres

Wouldn’t even be close. They could either go toe to toe and have a high scoring thriller or dog it out and get a 1-0. They were also very capable of kicking the shit out of the opposition.

Klopps team is still wildly unbalanced defensively.

No Carragher?

A lot of these kind of players are hard to come by, good mixture of leadership and talent. Exactly the kind of players Rafa did well to unearth.

[CrasherKid79]

No Carragher?

A lot of these kind of players are hard to come by, good mixture of leadership and talent. Exactly the kind of players Rafa did well to unearth.

Ha, not for me sorry. Sami is Sami and Agger is my favourite Liverpool player of the modern era, so Carragher would be on the bench.

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Newcastle United are in talks "with new and credible parties" after Mike Ashley put the club up for sale, according to his lawyer.

Who are they, I have heard nothing.

Amanda Staveley, a potential buyer, has signed a non-disclosure agreement but that was a few weeks ago and I've heard nothing since.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Newcastle United are in talks "with new and credible parties" after Mike Ashley put the club up for sale, according to his lawyer.

Who are they, I have heard nothing.

Amanda Staveley, a potential buyer, has signed a non-disclosure agreement but that was a few weeks ago and I've heard nothing since.

Might have something to do with that pesky NDA she signed.....

[WisconsinRed]

Last weekend I was getting ready to go to the match and I burst out laughing when I thought about Rafa being at the club, I don't think I've done that about any other manager because we have no right to have him at our club.   It was different when Keegan and Bobby managed us because they had ties to the club, this is actually different because somehow we managed to attract Rafa and that's surreal and I don't think I'll ever take him for granted.

Hopefully we'll get owners who appreciate what they have in Rafa, if we do we're in for some exciting times in the not too distant future because he's the one person at the club who could potentially get us punching above our weight and we haven't even punched at our weight for a long time.

He will win you a trophy if you keep him long term. He knows how to win a cup.

I'm glad you and rest of your fans love him. He deserves it.

[_00_deathscar]

Hmmm if you're saying achievements don't have a factor in judging the quality of a coach, I don't really agree. I'd also say Klopp's Liverpool at it's absolute best (Arsenal games, City thrashing etc) has been better than any Rafa side I've seen.

Butting in here - Klopps' Liverpool at its absolute best have been some of the best attacking football I've seen played by a Liverpool team (Rodgers' team not far behind). But coming up against the best, or even a half-decent Liverpool side, they'd get absolutely choked. Rafa's team wins it 1-0 or 2-0. There's a huge gulf in class between the one offs that Rodgers/Klopp managed to create and the Liverpool side that was frustrating Europe's best teams by choking them out.

They would ruin our current midfield for starters, and the less said about our defence (Torres, Gerrard, Kuyt and Benayoun up against our Benny Hill lot? Fuck me sideways)...and they were strong enough in defence to keep a clean sheet even against the very best attacks.

[Paully]

It’s great seeing your lot’s admiration for Rafa! He genuinely has the backing of every fan and exciting times could well be ahead!

I’m off to Burnley soon and I’m going for a 2-0 win!

[Phil M]

Big game tonight.

I was looking at Burnley,  for all the talk of Dyches supposed tactical nous they've played West Brom, Palace, Huddersfield and West Ham so far and only won against Palace (1-0).

The Geordies have lost to Hudders and Brighton away, beaten Swansea and then drew with Southampton last week.

All points to a tightly fought low scoring contest tonight perhaps.

I think the likes of Shelvey , Ritchie, Atsu and Perez moreso need to start getting amongst the goals soon to ensure their survival first and foremost and then to kick on into the top 10 hopefully.
Lacelles (2) has more than any of their midfielders right now. Might be something Rafa will look to help sort in January.

[Dim Glas]

The 2009 era team would beat the Klopp Liverpool team easily.

                            Reina

Arbeloa        Hypiya      Agger       Aurelio

                   Masch        Alonso
     
    Kuyt               Gerrard           Benayoun

                            Torres

Wouldn’t even be close. They could either go toe to toe and have a high scoring thriller or dog it out and get a 1-0. They were also very capable of kicking the shit out of the opposition.

Klopps team is still wildly unbalanced defensively.

of course they would, it's a far better team.

So far, the team we have now has some fantastic attacking talents, probably 3 or 4 good or up and coming defenders in Matip, Gomez, Clyne and maybe Robertson,  1 or 2 talented attacking midfielders in Cout and Gini, but huge issues in central midfield and central defence and those are probably the 2 most key areas in a team. That team above was a million miles ahead of this current squad in those 2 areas, which makes it a far better team. Benitez had a couple cracking teams to work with here. Not sure if Kloppo ever will. Althogh Keita solves one huge problem!

[Xxavi]

I would have strongly agreed with you, but then I remembered you just the other week trashing Ancelotti as a has been  .

I think the answer is not as black and white. Like with many professions, people get tired and worn out with the passing of time. In high pressure environments like football management, it's easy to imagine someone not being the force they were earlier in their careers. You only have to look at the likes of Wenger, Capello and Hiddink to see decent examples of managers who once were leaders in their field yet seemed to lose that edge as they got older. Capello and Hiddink wisely realised that they should cash in on their successes as it became more difficult to compete with younger managers.

It may be premature to call the likes of Pochettino and Nagelsmann world-class as they haven't won anything yet, but you also have to make judgments within some context. The reality is that some managers are on an upward curve whereas others are on the decline.

As for Rafa, he seems to be managing just fine. In fact, I can't see any signs that he has lost his passion for the game, nor has his strengths as a manager diminished.

I agree that managers, like players, also get old and stall in their development/regress. So Ancelotti, Lippi, Capello and Wenger doing just that is something I accept.

However, if you told me to pick Wagner or Ancelotti, I would go with Ancelotti every time. Not Wenger or Capello, those two are clearly very past it to me. Ancelotti as achieved big things recently.

My point is, these younger managers are a huge, huge gamble. In this particular case, I was talking of people comparing younger managers to Mourinho's of the world. These are still very much active managers who are doing well.

PS Overall, I cannot disagree with anything in your post. Great arguments!

[_00_deathscar]

Wouldn’t even be close. They could either go toe to toe and have a high scoring thriller or dog it out and get a 1-0. They were also very capable of kicking the shit out of the opposition.

Yea they really were well balanced weren't they? Could really duke it out in any way - or choke/crush the opposition, or just overpower them physically/technically (cf. Real Madrid). Real shame what happened not only that season (probably one of the best Manchester United sides that, 11 clean sheets, Macheda, Spurs penalty, 4-4 vs Arsenal, us trying to go all out vs Chelsea and nearly doing it with Gerrard not even playing) and also what happened subsequently. Should have been the start of a dynasty that. Instead the team was gutted within two seasons.

[thegoodfella]

He failed at Napoli in the sense he didn't really improve them.

Think he improved the squad considerably and Napoli is reaping the rewards for a couple of seasons now. Reina, Ghoulam, Albiol, Koulibaly, Jorginho, Mertens, Callejon, all starters and integral to the team.

[Lycan]

Think he improved the squad considerably and Napoli is reaping the rewards for a couple of seasons now. Reina, Ghoulam, Albiol, Koulibaly, Jorginho, Mertens, Callejon, all starters and integral to the team.

Yep. Rafa has had a massive influence on that Napoli team.

[Xxavi]

Think he improved the squad considerably and Napoli is reaping the rewards for a couple of seasons now. Reina, Ghoulam, Albiol, Koulibaly, Jorginho, Mertens, Callejon, all starters and integral to the team.

As you say, these guys are integral to them even YEARS after Rafa left that team. I thought it needs stressing that Rafa left Napoli a while ago.

At least he purchased a lot of players who did well there.

[Phil M]

Would you Geordies be happy with a point tonight?

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Would you Geordies be happy with a point tonight?

Definitely not, I always want 3 points for Newcastle every game they play.

A draw tonight is the best result for Liverpool as if one of us wins we go above you's I believe.

[Lone Star Red]

Definitely not, I always want 3 points for Newcastle every game they play.

A draw tonight is the best result for Liverpool as if one of us wins we go above you's I believe.

Your result is largely irrelevant to us as we'll be finishing well above Newcastle in the table come season's end.

[Toon-Mick]

Would you Geordies be happy with a point tonight?

I'd take a point, 3 points would be even better.

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Your result is largely irrelevant to us as we'll be finishing well above Newcastle in the table come season's end.

Whatever.

[Toon-Mick]

Your result is largely irrelevant to us as we'll be finishing well above Newcastle in the table come season's end.

At this time I agree with you, we will need a new owner and Rafa getting good money in January to be anywhere near you come the end of the season.

[Phil M]

[Phil M]

Merino injured?

[Toon-Mick]

Merino injured?

Back injury.

[thegoodfella]

This one is going to be a tough nut to crack by the looks of it. Newcastle will do well here if they leave with a point.

[Toon-Mick]

This one is going to be a tough nut to crack by the looks of it. Newcastle will do well here if they leave with a point.

We don't usually wake up until the 20th minute.