Topic: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM

[StokieSteve]

Fair enough mate, manly handshakes all round

[Carlito Roberto]

Relatively recent I think. there was a period of time where we kept winning by late goals. Rafa's time, can't remember if it was the 86pt season.

Established it was Bolton last season, think it was the only time we managed it all season.

[ziggyy]

Established it was Bolton last season, think it was the only time we managed it all season.

Ok. but I do remember a period of time where we claw our way back quite often. we do need that kind of mental strength to be able to challenge consistently.


**Just saw the earlier posts that it was the 08/09 season.

[DanA]

I actually think Stoke are going to go a long way. They should get through the group stage of Europa League and if they do they'll be fucking tough to beat. I think there chances are massively underated in that tournament.

Pulis has done well to improved his squad, building a team better than the sum of it's parts. A time might come where they are forced to sell Shawcross but they should get 15m+ for him and I can see Pulis spending that money wisely.

Ugly football but their future is bright I reckon

[faisfais]

This.. and in my opinion, we could be playing till Monday and still not score. This was that type of a game. Decent performance but sadly these are the games when influencing the ref ala ManU is required.

Looks like King Kenny is actually paying attention!

[LiverpoolKopKings]

I need access to the statistics for this game, as I have someone that needs this info shoved down his troat. where can i get this info online, preferably something official like. Cheers

[woof]

Ugly football but their future is bright I reckon

Sends shivers down my spine.

[postblue]

I need access to the statistics for this game, as I have someone that needs this info shoved down his troat. where can i get this info online, preferably something official like. Cheers

http://www.whoscored.com/

[LiverpoolKopKings]

http://www.whoscored.com/

cheers

[DanA]

Think it worth mentioning. If you were asked would we take:
- 73% possesion
- 16 shots on goal to 2
- 7 shot on target to 1
- 12 corners to 2
- Pass accuracy of 78%

I think we'd have all taken it with a huge grin on our faces.

[LiverpoolKopKings]

Think it worth mentioning. If you were asked would we take:
- 73% possesion
- 16 shots on goal to 2
- 7 shot on target to 1
- 12 corners to 2
- Pass accuracy of 78%

I think we'd have all taken it with a huge grin on our faces.

What kills me is that any other team with those stats would claim a proverbial twatting but all we can claim is incredolous bitterness all the way down the troat.

Only positive I can find is that 12 months ago we had several games with all that possesion but hardly any or no shots at goal or no shots at all. We just need to convert one of them quickly and preferably before the bus parking team, and we'll be able to burst open the floodgates.

[TheTeflonJohn]

The second coming of Wimbledon

[ziggyy]

The second coming of Wimbledon

Haha, was thinking of them when I saw DanA's comment about Stoke's bright future...

It works for them, so why not... It's our role (ok... Kenny's) to figure out how to overcome their tactics...

[pewithree3]

I watched the last 30 minutes on LFC.tv last night and the chances we had in that time
was more than enough to win the game easily.
But what was noticable to me was how  the pitch had been made a lot narrower,
 the original lines could be easily seen and grass that would be normally seen on a rugby pitch.
Surely once a pitch is marked at the beginning of the season that is the size for the rest
of the season along with there being a rule stating grass should not be longer than so many mm.

[Macca201188]

Think it worth mentioning. If you were asked would we take:
- 73% possesion
- 16 shots on goal to 2
- 7 shot on target to 1
- 12 corners to 2
- Pass accuracy of 78%

I think we'd have all taken it with a huge grin on our faces.

Unbelievable. It really is

[drpepe]

I think the Stoke result proves we have had our heads stuck up our own arses with the transfer window and an ok but nothing special start to the season. I felt the day after the window that the back slapping was too loud and we now have a long overdue slice of reality.

I just hope we learn that we arent as good as we think we are and i think we have been a touch arrogant of late without much reason. Sure we played well against Bolton in bits and bits of other matches but thats it. Hard work ahead.

^this post is the one I agree with most from this thread.

We've a long way to go and mistakes will be made (be they transfers, team selection or from individual players) . I think it's perfectly acceptable to discuss reasons for our results (be it blame or credit), even at this stage of the season.

A result like saturday is bloody hard to take, and tbf I'm absolutely gutted that we haven't been able to push on and extend our good start to the season - the Stoke game was important but now spurs becomes pivotal imo. A decent start may become either very good or pretty poor depending on the result at whl.

[redrockydennis]

Haha, was thinking of them when I saw DanA's comment about Stoke's bright future...

It works for them, so why not... It's our role (ok... Kenny's) to figure out how to overcome their tactics...

Kill them with fire.

[Roady]

statistics are worthless. The only statistic that is relevant is the scoreline.You can play all the fancy football yuou like but if you dont score then its not really worth a mention is it? Fact is we lost, and whether we played great or utterly crap is meaningless.We didnt pick up any points. Id much prefer to have played garbage and picked up all three points.

[ziggyy]

Kill them with fire.

Nah, just get Dennis Wise to be a consultant for them... That'll be more fun to watch.

[drpepe]

statistics are worthless. The only statistic that is relevant is the scoreline.You can play all the fancy football yuou like but if you dont score then its not really worth a mention is it? Fact is we lost, and whether we played great or utterly crap is meaningless.We didnt pick up any points. Id much prefer to have played garbage and picked up all three points.

wit ha strong defence that doesn't make many mistakes it is often possible to do that much more often than not.

the last season or so we just do not find it possible to hold out against even some of the poorer strikers/teams. it costs us a lorra lorra points over the season

[12Kings]

The second coming of Wimbledon

Nail On Head! this.
They our NU-WIMBLEDON. Next they'll be swapping the grass for astro-turf, or as was the case on saturday 'Afro-turf'.

[Brentieke]

Fair enough on Houllier, no disrespect intended.

Am interested on how you saw the match Steve and what did you make of us.

For the record I hate you club, but for all the right reasons i.e. because I hate going to yours. But IMO, you're a credit to the league. You've gone up, stayed up and found your niche in the premier league without spending hugely and playing to your strengths. You, contrast to other clubs, give everyone a hard game when they come to yours. I also love the atmosphere at your ground and I consider you to have the best atmosphere in the league by a distance.

Dont like your park the bus tactics away from home, especially in your first season up and not a fan of the long throws but, again that's playing to your strengths and that's what makes the league great IMO: a bunch of teams playing different styles of football.

Best of luck this season, but by God you were fucking lucky on Saturday! If I was a Stoke fan, it was the sort of game I'd watch through my fingers!

[DanA]

statistics are worthless. The only statistic that is relevant is the scoreline.You can play all the fancy football yuou like but if you dont score then its not really worth a mention is it? Fact is we lost, and whether we played great or utterly crap is meaningless.We didnt pick up any points. Id much prefer to have played garbage and picked up all three points.

I disagree with you firstly on the relevance of statistics and secondly on the "whether we played great or crap is utterly meaningless". I'll take good form and unlucky over stealing a win at this end of the season. There's a hell of a lot of football to be played and i'm patient enough to wait for the results to match performances. Perhaps someone from the Mcdonald's generation of instant gratification can't understand this.

^this post is the one I agree with most from this thread.

We've a long way to go and mistakes will be made (be they transfers, team selection or from individual players) . I think it's perfectly acceptable to discuss reasons for our results (be it blame or credit), even at this stage of the season.

A result like saturday is bloody hard to take, and tbf I'm absolutely gutted that we haven't been able to push on and extend our good start to the season - the Stoke game was important but now spurs becomes pivotal imo. A decent start may become either very good or pretty poor depending on the result at whl.

No offense but I loathe that comment because it's a whooper who points to the first bit of bad luck to say "see I told you the signings weren't great". We are seven points from four games, if we continue on that path we'd be a point off fourth. Considering the opposition we've faced there is nothing wrong with our start. We're right on track for a top four finish.

[drpepe]

I disagree with you firstly on the relevance of statistics and secondly on the "whether we played great or crap is utterly meaningless". I'll take good form and unlucky over stealing a win at this end of the season. There's a hell of a lot of football to be played and i'm patient enough to wait for the results to match performances. Perhaps someone from the Mcdonald's generation of instant gratification can't understand this.

No offense but I loathe that comment because it's a whooper who points to the first bit of bad luck to say "see I told you the signings weren't great". We are seven points from four games, if we continue on that path we'd be a point off fourth. Considering the opposition we've faced there is nothing wrong with our start. We're right on track for a top four finish.

No disagree.

It is realistic to accept that not everything the manager tries will work (immediately or otherwise).

It is also realistic that we are not at the level we want to be at (ie. strive to improve, ambition to be the best )

these things will all take time. that is for sure 

[Roady]

I disagree with you firstly on the relevance of statistics and secondly on the "whether we played great or crap is utterly meaningless". I'll take good form and unlucky over stealing a win at this end of the season. There's a hell of a lot of football to be played and i'm patient enough to wait for the results to match performances. Perhaps someone from the Mcdonald's generation of instant gratification can't understand this.

No offense but I loathe that comment because it's a whooper who points to the first bit of bad luck to say "see I told you the signings weren't great". We are seven points from four games, if we continue on that path we'd be a point off fourth. Considering the opposition we've faced there is nothing wrong with our start. We're right on track for a top four finish.

do us a favour mate get a grip McNasty's generation.Im probably older than you and have seen teh good and bad times so dont go there. Im simply saying the game is about results. It doesn tmatter how you play to get them as long as you get them.yes its nice to be entertained,but effectively whats the point in being entertained if you get nothing from it,apart from a feeling of "we played well so its ok" .Fact of the matter is yes its nice to play well but at any stage of the seaqson id take a shite performance and 3 points over a good performance and none.

[drpepe]

//
Stoke also got away with murder. A number of dirty/late challenges, two missed penalties, one of which was stonewall imho (Delap's), countless last ditch clearances and a soft pen with your one chance to win the game. I worry that they've used up all their luck and when Man Utd turn up for the game they'll scramble a cheap win, but hey, that's just me being pessimistic.
//

nope, that's pretty much common sense! 

[MiserableP15]

do us a favour mate get a grip McNasty's generation.Im probably older than you and have seen teh good and bad times so dont go there. Im simply saying the game is about results. It doesn tmatter how you play to get them as long as you get them.yes its nice to be entertained,but effectively whats the point in being entertained if you get nothing from it,apart from a feeling of "we played well so its ok" .Fact of the matter is yes its nice to play well but at any stage of the seaqson id take a shite performance and 3 points over a good performance and none.

The classic George Graham v Arsene Wenger argument. I guess we know which camp you're in!

I'd rather have both myself. Results AND good play. Given the signs under Kenny, I don't see how we won't have both.

[drpepe]

The classic George Graham v Arsene Wenger argument. I guess we know which camp you're in!

I'd rather have both myself. Results AND good play. Given the signs under Kenny, I don't see how we won't have both.

But which ought to come first when you're building a side?

we're losing points through an inability to defend

give me clean sheets and nicking a win all day long!

[Macphisto80]

Just watching the game again on the website.
Once the dust has settled on the defeat and the anger has subsided, I can't help but feel fairly bittersweet.
We pissed on them from start to finish, and their once chance was created by a backward hoof and a soft pen. Fair enough, shit happens, but overall we played well. In the first five minutes alone we were so incisive down their left with some great football played.
Yes Adam misplaced some passes, but he also sprayed it about well and should have had a couple of assists. Lucas was excellent as always, Downing and Enrique positive, Pepe as sturdy as always. I'd say Dirk and Hendo were our two weakest performers on the day but even they showed good touches.

One thing I noticed was that Stoke seemed to have wised up to Suarez's ability to nutmeg and run through people. I got the distinct impression Pulis had ensured some homework had been done, which if so is fair play. A few times he was one on one with a last defender but didn't manage to get through. Maybe it was just the grass.

Stoke also got away with murder. A number of dirty/late challenges, two missed penalties, one of which was stonewall imho (Delap's), countless last ditch clearances and a soft pen with your one chance to win the game. I worry that they've used up all their luck and when Man Utd turn up for the game they'll scramble a cheap win, but hey, that's just me being pessimistic.

The points don't show it, the result didn't show it, the table doesn't show it, but on the basis of that performance AND the others this season, we have improved. Massively. You're blind if you can't see it.

Excellent post, mate. Agree with every word of it, especially the last sentence.

[MiserableP15]

Drpepe,
Surely you agree that our defeat on Saturday was NOT solely due to a defensive error. Defensive mistakes will be made in other games. Pepe will fuck up in a game and gift the opposition a goal. Our defense will lose possession and gift the opposition a goal. We WILL give away other penalties. It's part and parcel of defending, you can't be perfect 100% of the time. What we must do is create the chances to cover those mistakes, as we did on Saturday. What we didn't do this time was convert those chances. I blame the finishing over the defending on this occasion.

[Roady]

The classic George Graham v Arsene Wenger argument. I guess we know which camp you're in!

I'd rather have both myself. Results AND good play. Given the signs under Kenny, I don't see how we won't have both.

nah id rather see us play well and win any day of the week.Fact is though no point in playing well and losing is there? Id still rather take 3 points after playing shite than taking none and playing well.Fact is thats how Manchester United have won the league for years. They get scrappy 1-0 wins when theyve played awfully.Its 3 points they dont give a shit and neither do their fans who will only remember the times they played well and scored 3 or more in a game that particular season.Its a results business.Its nice to play well but no point paying well if your not getting results.

[drpepe]

Drpepe,
Surely you agree that our defeat on Saturday was NOT solely due to a defensive error. Defensive mistakes will be made in other games. Pepe will fuck up in a game and gift the opposition a goal. Our defense will lose possession and gift the opposition a goal. We WILL give away other penalties. It's part and parcel of defending, you can't be perfect 100% of the time. What we must do is create the chances to cover those mistakes, as we did on Saturday. What we didn't do this time was convert those chances. I blame the finishing over the defending on this occasion.

yes agreed to a point - it was a combination of factors that lost us the game.

but we seem to have had a succession of  defensive 'one-offs' that cost us games , for the best part of 2 and a half years 

it is a problem that needs fixing  cos i want us to win some games 1-0 ffs! we need to have that in our locker

[stevienash]

Yeah a few behind me booed at full time n all, bad form that.

I think the booing at half time was aimed at clattenburg to be fair! Cant understand the people who booed at the end! I was gutted that we lost but lets put it in to perspective that was a lot better than when we went there last season and lost 2-0? Stick together and bring on spurs

[R.A.La]

When did he do that?

Just after Danny Agger had been headbutted. Bellemy was having a go at the ref and quite clearly called him a shithouse.

Fair play to him, he said what I was thinking.

[Mr Kipling]

Craig Bellemy summed it up for me, when he called Clattenberg a shithouse.

 

[Kaos AD]

I don't know if this is the appropriate thread, but I made a small research regarding the statistics of our first 4 games this season compared with the last season. I know, statistics don't tell the whole story, the opponents weren't the same and so on.
We played in 2010/2011 with Arsenal at home, and Man City, Birmingham and Man Utd away. This season, Sunderland and Bolton at home, Arsenal and Stoke away.
So, the numbers (I summed them up on total shots, shots on target, fouls, corners, dribbles won, tackles won and goals, and I've put the average number for pass acuracy, aerials won and posession).
                    2010/2011   2011/2012
Total shots        37-47        55-30
Shots on target 14-13        22-11
Pass acuracy      79%           79%
Aerials won         49%          59%
Fouls                 48-53          44-44
Corners             17-26          35-20
Dribbles won     28-28          35-23
Tackles won      59-66          69-60
Posession            46%            60%
Goals                  3-7              6-3

[Lucas DuoFlush]

nah id rather see us play well and win any day of the week.Fact is though no point in playing well and losing is there? Id still rather take 3 points after playing shite than taking none and playing well.Fact is thats how Manchester United have won the league for years. They get scrappy 1-0 wins when theyve played awfully.Its 3 points they dont give a shit and neither do their fans who will only remember the times they played well and scored 3 or more in a game that particular season.Its a results business.Its nice to play well but no point paying well if your not getting results.

I'm not sure. I'd personally say the main objective of football is entertainment. So to be in the Premiership, playing entertaining football, with interesting players, and a manager who has press conferences as entertaining as the football is a pretty good place to be in. In addition, we'll be competing for all three competitions we're in, so there is a good chance of some success and silverware too, which of course is important.

[Buzz Killington]

I've seen a lot of the posts on this thread and I can understand the anger etc. But as some of the more sensible posters have pointed out, we play to our strengths, do what we have to to win games and to stay in this league.

All this, we had bad decisions, wank ref and all that. Do you think that we haven't suffered this shit at away grounds? it happens. I reckon Stoke lost seven or eight points last season due to bad calls.

The reason for my post though, is the crap posted by many on here. "I fucking hate Stoke, hope they get relegated, Pulis is a wanker anti football and all that stuff. Sorry you feel this way, but we got a deserved penalty, defended brilliantly and won the game.

I like Liverpool football club, and I reckon you will finish top four, but please have a bit of respect for Stoke City and Tony. I think we deserve it.

Don't particularly mind Stoke to be honest, Pulis has always been respectful when talking about us and your supporters are a decent bunch too. I actually admire what Pulis has done there, I doubt many even expected you to stay in the league but he's worked wonders and getting into the europa league and doing well is a brilliant achievement.

It was just one of those days really, had we been more clinical we could have got something out of the game so whilst the ref was a nob I can't really be too disheartened, I doubt many teams will go to your ground and play as well as we did! Also you're spot on regarding refereeing decisions, the inconsistency is a joke though, I think there was something on MOTD last season about how many dodgy decisions went against you (could be wrong though).
I don't mind your football either, like you said you play to your strengths and I actually think you play some good football at the Britannia, it's away from home/against the big teams where it's more defensive. Ahead of us in the league though, yer bastards!

[AlphaDelta]

We done more than enough to win this game and had it not been for some top class goalkeeping and defending from Stoke, and another appalling decision from a ref, we would have come away from something.

I prefer to look at the positives, we played well for the majority of the game, Suarez continues to look red hot and the new lads are still looking good - Enriques pass to send Henderson through was class.

It does hurt to lose, but had we been woeful and lacking in ideas and gotten beat, I would have been far, far more pissed off, because like it or like it not, Stoke away is a tough place for ANY team.

[redk84]

just seen the replay of the match

to be honest it was the best performance ive seen at stoke for a while....just couldn't score and it wasn't for lack of trying...ridiculous amount of shots/blocked shots/near misses.

was one of "those" days and the lack of quality when it mattered cost us points.

we were never gonna win/draw everygame this season, its always hard to take when we lose but i think the positive im aiming for is that even in defeat we played well....and stoke away is a hard match, many teams will fall there as we have...

onwards!