Author Topic: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.  (Read 17386 times)

Offline stroller

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2011, 09:40:40 pm »
Apologies for this but I am off on one.

Someone said 'beauty is flawed and Liverpool is starting to build something beautiful I believe'. Couldn't agree more and agree with most of what has been said already.

As a supporter that remembers Kenny as a player and the first time he managed us, I can't help harking back to the feeling of what it was like to watch us back in the day. It was less about tactics and more about soaking up the glorious fluidity of our play.

Don't really want to add anything sensible in terms of analysis and really want to stop making sense.

Feels like something is in the air...something embryonic...the signs are encouraging.

It feels like the first time you here a perfect pop song and can't get it out of your head as it builds from deep inside into your conscious mind. Something deep and meaningful is happening and taking hold, but you can't really put it into words. Better just cue the music and enjoy the feeling...

Jose Enrique
Jose Enrique
Jose Enrique

Whoa Oh!

 ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2oRqyn7ToQ&ob=av3n

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2011, 10:20:42 pm »
One or two posters have mentioned that Arsenal weren't up to much and indeed that was the main story in the meedja, Arsenal imploding, rather than a good performance by us. I just want to highlight one performance, that of Samir Nasri. He may have looked good on the ball, at times, but our second goal was all about him.

Firstly, the ball broke from the right hand side and Lucas and Nasri were close together by the right touchline. Now, there was no Frimpong, so when the ball broke into the Frimpong sized hole, Lucas was closer to it by about a yard from Nasri. So Nasri didn't bother moving his arse after Lucas but instead gently jogged over in Raul's direction.

Lucas gets the ball and drives straight at the Arsenal back four. Suarez was buzzing with intent and took two defenders with him, leaving a gap on the right for Lucas to pass into but to who? Well, if you recall, Raul Meireles was loitering over that side and he, too, drove into the box. Fortunately for him, Nasri decided not to bother chasing him either. So we had Nasri giving up on Lucas, who then passed to Raul, who Nasri had also given up on. I don't think I've ever seen that before, one player failing to pick up his man, twice, with two different opponents, in the same goal conceding move. That takes effort, or rather real lack of effort. Take a bow, Samir.

Offline Gee, Stevie

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2011, 04:15:14 am »
Happy we are slowly bedding in Enrique, Adam, Downing and Henderson, it's good to see.

Enrique has looked very comfortable for a guy who has been with the squad only 10 days or so for two games.  Very solid, composed and skillful on the ball and seems to be in the right positions almost allt he time defensively.  You'd think his work with the other defenders will only get better as they learn each other's game.  We have great attacking potential down the left with Enrique and Downing, too.

Adam is an interesting one.  So far he has been involved in key attacking moments in both games (we're judging these guys on two games, so plenty can change and we haven;t really seen anything yet, have we?), but also looked sluggish, off pace and out of position at crucial times.  He definitely brings world class delivery from set pieces and when he has time to cut a defence to ribbons.  Is probably a blessing in disguise to have a month or so for Adam to start alongside Lucas to get used to playing with him, before Gerrard is back.

Henderson was a bit more involved in the good stuff we pulled off against Arsenal and less of the bad stuff.  probably can't say too much more than that, yet.  Looked perhaps a little more comfortable playing centrally than he did in a slightly wider role against Sunderland.

Downing was good to have out on the left.  Not the best game he will play for us but it's good to have that outlet.  Is interesting when playing from the right.  If we're looking to hit crosses to Carroll it only really makes sense to have Downing on the right if we're looking at changing the angle of those crosses and hitting balls in early.  Is a bit too much of a Stoke tactic for me.

Overall, we were solid enough but never looked like scoring until the red card and Meireles and Suarez came on.  I think our best side in big games would have Meireles and Kuyt in advanced positions on the right like we had last season.  Gerrard probably to hold a little deeper in midfield but obviously pushing forward when he can.  Something like this:

Reina

Johnson    Carra    Agger    Enrique

.                    Lucas
Gerrard                 .
.                                                        Downing
Meireles                                   .
Kuyt                 .
.             Suarez

SUBS
Doni, Kelly, Skrtel, Adam, Henderson, Maxi, Carroll

Need to think about potentially swapping which side Lucas and Gerrard play, not sure yet!




Offline Junkle

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2011, 07:43:49 am »
The performance was solid and nothing exciting. I left the room for a walk about the house around the 70th or so minute as I thought that we were just not going to score. I decided to hit the record button so that I can watch the last 20 minutes later. Some how I felt like I am betraying the team by not sitting "in the stands" for the full 90 minutes. I then decided to go back and watch only to find that we had just scored. Unbelievable. Thanks to technology as I just rewound the recording and watched the game from where I had left of. After scoring I was still scared that we were going to concede although they were a man down. The off-sides debates raged on after the game but I would have take anything for this win. Even if it meant red carding the whole of Arsenal team. Happy days are slowly trickling back.

As I said I will only pass judgement on the players in January particularly because they are taking the space of my favourite player on the team--- Aqua-man. Commenting on the new players right now would be an emotional thing and not a reasoned argument.
The weakest link in the team is our main man BR.

Offline Junkle

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2011, 07:51:07 am »
Apologies for this last point.... It is has never felt this good to know that our bench could be better than our starting eleven. Who else is in that position??? Meireles, Spearing, Maxi, Suazes, among them... then we have Aqua, SG, and defensively we have Mr tatoos and the big greek.
The weakest link in the team is our main man BR.

Offline John C

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2011, 09:24:23 am »
I've been a tiny bit reluctant to join in because it seems sacrosanct to raise a couple of questions after a such a victory but immediately after half time until the subs were made there was two sides in our own team. There was the defence with Kelly & Enrique doing a solid job while trying to add to the width, together with Lucas keeping every Arsenal build-up at bay. Lucas was magnificent albeit it was a weakened Arsenal team and should have been motm.
And then there was the rest. Carroll was isolated which seems to have become a frequently used description for him. Like FS, for the second game running I found myself wondering what SG would do or even Yossi to create some spark and creativity. Downing had a go and I'm really happy with him.
But then the hero's were introduced with timely magnificence by Kenny. The busy and energetic Suarez and Meireles caused havoc instantly. We were unrecognisable from 5 minutes earlier. Please don't think I'm criticising Kenny or the players, I'm not, but the difference was tangible. You could smell and taste the fresh dynamic and Arsenal were rocked.

Kuyt was a cert to be subbed but personally I'd have took Henderson off instead of Carroll simply to let him benefit from that impetus and energy. Chances are he'd have scored himself, nonetheless I think he'd have not perhaps felt despondent having not been given some opportunities for himself. I'm not saying he's low in confidence at all, but we all know strikers thrive on confidence and a spell on the pitch with those two linking in to him would have done his game some good.
That's just my opinion round the table. It was a fine win with some fine performances and a reminder of how good Raul Meireles has been since January 2011.

That last 20 minutes for me proved that if Aquilani goes and SG struggles at all this season then this will still kill most teams as fitness improves.
Lucas Adam
Squarez Meireles Downing
Carroll.

Offline Fuzion6

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2011, 10:16:45 am »
Was as at the game and enjoyed getting a view from the stands of what was going on tactically. Thought the midfield was harrying and pressing impressively - was an obvious tactic to restrict Nasri and Ramsey from having any time on the ball which is why the ball spent so much time with Frimpong. Arsenal fans commented that they hadn't seen a team harry them as well as we did on Saturday. Thought the much talked about defensive line was fine...it wasn't super high but not coamped on out 18 yard line either. Thought it was a very efficient and professional perfromance where we spent the first 70 minutes grinding arsenal down before bringing on the flair.

Couple of points to note are that I thought again Carroll was left too isolated. We need to have midfield runner go beyond him but I didn't see enough of that from Henderson, Kuyt etc. It may be that they were told to hold back and concentrate on defence first but really we need runners bursting onto Carroll's knockdowns. Henderson has been discussed at length - I like his efficiency and touch but I worry about his movement (compared to Meireles) and his lack of confidence/creactivity. Enrique is looking class act and Kelly was superb also.

Offline Hinesy

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2011, 10:57:57 am »
I've been a tiny bit reluctant to join in because it seems sacrosanct to raise a couple of questions after a such a victory but immediately after half time until the subs were made there was two sides in our own team.
But then the hero's were introduced with timely magnificence by Kenny. The busy and energetic Suarez and Meireles caused havoc instantly. We were unrecognisable from 5 minutes earlier. Please don't think I'm criticising Kenny or the players, I'm not, but the difference was tangible. You could smell and taste the fresh dynamic and Arsenal were rocked.
That's just my opinion round the table. It was a fine win with some fine performances and a reminder of how good Raul Meireles has been since January 2011.



I think its a fair point, no-one is getting carried away with over confidence, or at least, I hope not. Suarez will have to be managed carefully so he doesn't run out of steam too early, or worse, pick up a silly knock due to fatigue, but I also have to ask, or point out, I hope that the re-introduction of Gerrard doesn't stifle or hinder a slowly gelling team because of his status in the camp.
Yep.

Offline John C

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2011, 12:09:12 pm »
........but I also have to ask, or point out, I hope that the re-introduction of Gerrard doesn't stifle or hinder a slowly gelling team because of his status in the camp.
I don't think it will stifle or hinder the process of gelling hinesy. Both games have demonstrated during spells that we need him and his team mates may be inspired by his return. Perhaps that shouldn't be understated. Of course it means disappointment and time on the bench for some players but that is part of the adventure of joining Kenny's improved squad. Nonetheless, its also evident that players will get game time - most will have an opportunity to contribute.
In the formation I posted above, I feel SG can play in both the Meireles and Adam position, so over the course of a season we may see some variation between quality players.

However, having said all that, my big fear is that the dilemma you pose may be less frequent than we'd all hope. I worry a lot about Steven's injury and there's a chance he'll be used sparingly this season.

Offline Danyaals Kop

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2011, 12:18:38 pm »
1) Joy since ten year's time when Titi took us to our last victory. Was it Arsene raging against the fading of the light, Arsenal not bothered or what had Kenny done to keep us playing til the end?  A case of Gunners giving up or Us til the end of the road?


What a performance that was. The passing, the movement and the fluidity of the football reminded us, and let's be honest, of the Liverpool Way. That result, even though it was a slightly weakened side of Arsenal, shows the character and belief. It's Arsenal away, one of the most toughest places to go yet our boys battles till the very last minute. Arsenal just did not have the stamina, desire, passion and hunger wanted to prove a point like we did. The defence barely let Arsenal have a shot on goal, if not a shot through-out the match as at all. What a way to bring yourself back up after a bitter result against Sunderland. This is where Kenny played a crucial part. I firmly believe, that the way we played throughout the match, with our intensity and flair, we would have beaten Arsenal whether they weren't a man down anyway. Very pleased at the moment. Although we should not get big headed and still have 36 more matches plus cup ties to go yet, this will definitely bring confidence to the team.

2. What differences between this and the Sunderland game did you see?

The attacking was a bit more sharper. The defence played their role to perfection with the positioning and defensive qualities. I was a bit surprised to see Suarez was not in the starting line up but did not take it in a sour way as I knew whatever Kenny did was for the benefit. Much better fluidity of play provided chances as well pressure payed as we got the first goal. One very important thing to notice was that when the team could not get past their defence after 70 minutes or so... The team failed to give up and hoof like they did. Big part of the win as you see was the belief in the method which is providing good results, which after time will lead lead to perfection


3. Anyone starting to stand out amongst the new or old?

Kelly had a hell of a game and I'm surprised how well Enrique has started to fit in. Carra and Agger did a decent job to shut Van Persie tight and with no bias opinion, our midfield dominated the game. Carroll had a decent game linking up with the wings and Kuyt as well. Like I said, this performance was to perfection but we need to keep up the good work and actually win something before actually boasting highly.


« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 12:21:05 pm by Danyaals Kop »

Offline MiserableP15

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2011, 02:40:27 pm »
1. Joy since ten year's time when Titi took us to our last victory. Was it Arsene raging against the fading of the light, Arsenal not bothered or what had Kenny done to keep us playing til the end?  A case of Gunners giving up or Us til the end of the road?

There’s a phrase in football - “Play the way you’re facing”. It’s been shouted at me a million times, usually as I’m about to do something foolish, and I think it’s relevant here. The point of “playing the way you’re facing”, is to keep things simple. Don’t take an unnecessary risk. Bide your time.

For me, this is exactly what Kenny did on Saturday. Everything that he did wrong against Sunderland was rectified at the Emirates. This time, Kenny kept it simple. He played a highly mobile and combative midfield, leaving Andy Carroll to plough the lone furrow up front, and essentially told a weakened Arsenal team to do their worst, knowing that his own squad had the depth, quality and variety to deal with virtually any scenario. With all the problems Arsenal have had, they simply didn’t have enough to damage Liverpool and it was only the highly pumped Frimpong and outstanding Vermaelen that kept Liverpool at bay. Within the first 15 minutes, Kenny’s vision had become even clearer. With Koscielny injured, his opponents were weakened further and clearly there for the taking, yet still Liverpool were patient. He would also have noted how Frimpong was a red card waiting to happen and that it was only a matter of time before the highly charged debutant went too far and earned himself an early bath, but still he waited for that moment to capitalise.

Carroll was unlucky not to score in the first half, Henderson should surely have done better after some great work by Kuyt, and there were signs enough that in Downing, Carroll, Henderson and Adam, we had enough in the locker to get the first goal, we just had to keep it simple. Frimpong being sent off was the catalyst for that extra push however. On came Raul and Suarez for Carroll and Meireles and the space vacated by the banished midfielder was cruelly exposed with neither Nasri, Ramsey or Lansbury having the will to do Frimpong’s dirty work. As someone said previously, it wasn’t pretty at times, it wasn’t picture book stuff, but it was effective, tactically correct and in the end, highly successful. Kenny got it bang on, and this still with a team of players yet to gel. 3 points at the Emirates against ANY Arsenal side is excellent. And four points from two games against traditional bogey teams is a very welcome beginning to the season.

2. What differences between this and the Sunderland game did you see?

Clearly a more cohesive performance from the entire team. Downing bristled with confidence, Enrique came out of his shell more, Adam seemed more at ease with the shirt, Lucas was his old self, and even Henderson improved. As others have said, Kelly made a massive difference. He offers that little bit more than Flanagan at this stage and seems a more composed option at RB. He always stays on his feet and has the physical strength and presence of mind to go up against his attacker. His positional play was also excellent. Forget the shot against the post or the stand off with Sagna, there was one bit of skill in the second half where he flicked a dangerous loose ball over the head of an Arsenal player, then clipped it left footed through another two Arsenal defenders to the feet of Dirk Kuyt. The lads screams of class and it’s no surprise to see him being touted as an England international.
 

3. Anyone starting to stand out amongst the new or old?

Of the new signings, the players who have stood out the most have to be Jose Enrique and Stewart Downing. Given that both are proven Premiership players, we were entitled to expect a certain level of quality from them, yet the fact that they’ve come into the team and settled immediately is still noteworthy. Downing looks like everything we wanted, and to coin a Fat Sam phrase, if he had a fancy foreign name we’d all be fawning over him. I fully expect him to be a key player this season.

 I thought Adam played an exciting, disciplined role as well and showed what he’s capable of. Never mind the lob attempt or the poor free kicks (although one was unbelievable and took an incredible defensive header to clear), his general play and passing was good and his partnership with Lucas is clearly developing. Agger again showed why he is so crucial to us,

I would like however to pay a special mention to the much maligned Andy Carroll. I thought he did well against Arsenal in a difficult role, and but for one top save and one shit pass from Adam (where he still managed to set up Kelly), could have had a brace. This on top of a perfectly good goal last week wrongly ruled out by a twat of a linesman. As AL555 wrote in the Carroll thread, if he continues to improve and we can vary our play through him and around him, we will truly be an awesome attacking force. There were signs on Saturday that we are starting to do that, none more so than Carra keeping it on the deck despite many an opportunity to launch it at Carroll’s head. I don’t think his first goals of the season are far away, and having seen how Bolton defended crosses against Man City yesterday, our next game at Anfield against them could be tailor made for his capabilities.



Modified to add:-

And as a note to ensure Hinesy's mass debate is kept going I'll discuss the current relevant point, which is how different we looked when Raul and Suarez came on. Funnily enough, Hansen made the point on MOTD as Corkboy does here.
One or two posters have mentioned that Arsenal weren't up to much and indeed that was the main story in the meedja, Arsenal imploding, rather than a good performance by us. I just want to highlight one performance, that of Samir Nasri. He may have looked good on the ball, at times, but our second goal was all about him.

Firstly, the ball broke from the right hand side and Lucas and Nasri were close together by the right touchline. Now, there was no Frimpong, so when the ball broke into the Frimpong sized hole, Lucas was closer to it by about a yard from Nasri. So Nasri didn't bother moving his arse after Lucas but instead gently jogged over in Raul's direction.

Lucas gets the ball and drives straight at the Arsenal back four. Suarez was buzzing with intent and took two defenders with him, leaving a gap on the right for Lucas to pass into but to who? Well, if you recall, Raul Meireles was loitering over that side and he, too, drove into the box. Fortunately for him, Nasri decided not to bother chasing him either. So we had Nasri giving up on Lucas, who then passed to Raul, who Nasri had also given up on. I don't think I've ever seen that before, one player failing to pick up his man, twice, with two different opponents, in the same goal conceding move. That takes effort, or rather real lack of effort. Take a bow, Samir.

It wasn't that just about Suarez and Raul offering something different to Andy and Dirk, it was just as much about the massive amount of space that opened up in an absolutely KEY position after Frimpong got sent off. Suddenly, our midfield and attack were running directly at their defence and they had noone tracking back to cover.
For me, each factor surrounding the sending off contributed in virtually equal measure.
1 - Defensive midfielder off with no adequate cover
2 - Arsenal down to 10 men
3 - Suarez and Raul on


Who thinks we'd have scored anyway if
a) Suarez and Raul came on at some point regardless of the sending off
b) Frimpong wasn't sent off but Carroll and Dirk stayed on
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 03:01:06 pm by MushyP15 »
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Offline Hinesy

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2011, 02:45:46 pm »
please remember as an intended 'discussion' thread its not just about answering the opening questions but about also picking up on what someone else has put. Debate in unison not answer in isolation. No points for answering 'oh hinesy wants up to mass debate' either thank you.
Yep.

Offline Aristotle

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2011, 03:11:30 pm »
One or two posters have mentioned that Arsenal weren't up to much and indeed that was the main story in the meedja, Arsenal imploding, rather than a good performance by us.

Nothing more to add to the Nasri point, but it's something i've been thinking a lot about lately. Liverpool fans, not just on here, but in general seem to have adjusted far too much to the Hodgson way of thinking. We are still a force to be reckoned with, regardless of all the things that have happened in recent years. We seem to have lost all faith in our ability to beat anyone. Many of the views after the game were that we beat a wounded Arsenal team, myself not being excluded from that line of thought, when in actuality it's been what we've been lacking for far too long. We were the favourites going into the game, there was a weakness to be exploited and we did. There's been much more focus on the fact that Arsenal didn't put up a fight, instead of the fact that we did. We pushed them, hazzled them and forced them into a position where there was only one possible scenario, and that was a Liverpool win.
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Offline superJari-37

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2011, 03:38:51 pm »
I don't agree totally with the media opinion that Arsenal were understrength. Of course they were having to deal with the turmoil of Fabregas and Nasri etc, and losing a defender after 5 minutes to injury is very bad luck. But I thought that the midfield and attack they selected wasn't exactly scraping the barrel - Ramsey is a very talented player and Frimpong proved that he is just as capable as Alex Song with an excellent display. Forward of that they had Walcott, Nasri, Arshavin and Van Persie who are all players capable of hurting any top team. And I have to say that in defence Thomas Vermaelen was superb.

From our side, the really impressive thing was the composure and coolness of our play. The mental approach was spot on, keeping level-headed with our passing and movement and dealing with everything they tried to throw at us. It was the perfect mentality for playing away to a big 4 club and it was like the high-maturity performances at Arsenal and Chelsea last season. These kind of games are more tactical than most, similar to big-name European matches in that they feature feints within feints within feints.

The only concern is that while this mentality perfectly suits away games at big clubs, it doesn't suit playing lesser teams (home or away) or playing at home in general. In the latter type of games, when approaching the opposition's area, you need that razor-sharp incisiveness, quick change-of-pace or rapid pass, and swift merciless attacking to make the other team think 'oh crap this is gonna be a long game'. If you dither when attacking in such games or are too languid, then the opposition gain in confidence as you lose it. They are 'simpler' games in this respect and less 'tactical' if you know what i mean.

Need to shut down comp will finish this post l8r
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Offline thejbs

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2011, 04:03:10 pm »
I see that Graham Poll said in his Daily Fail column today that the first goal was not offside. The ruling from FIFA is that he would've had to have made contact for it to have been offside. 

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2011, 04:06:11 pm »
I see that Graham Poll said in his Daily Fail column today that the first goal was not offside. The ruling from FIFA is that he would've had to have made contact for it to have been offside. 

I think that's harsh, though, on the young Spanish defender who whacked the ball into Ramsey. Suarez was touch tight to him at that point, I don't think anyone can say that if the defender had been under no pressure, with no Suarez breathing down his neck, he still would have cannonned the ball into his own player. Suarez must have been interfering with play.

Offline Aristotle

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #56 on: August 22, 2011, 04:17:40 pm »
I think that's harsh, though, on the young Spanish defender who whacked the ball into Ramsey. Suarez was touch tight to him at that point, I don't think anyone can say that if the defender had been under no pressure, with no Suarez breathing down his neck, he still would have cannonned the ball into his own player. Suarez must have been interfering with play.

That's what I thought as well. He wouldn't have knocked the ball into his own player unless Suarez was breathing down his neck. He would've passed the ball to the keeper or out for touch but he panicked and tried to clear the ball franticly.


I'm not complaining that it went in our favour, but I still think it was offside
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2011, 04:48:06 pm »
Have to be delighted with the result and the change in tactics once the sending off occured as we went from we could sneak a result here to the 3 points are ours to lose. I will be curious to see how we play at home and away against sides we should be dictating play to. The overall threat Saturday for 70 minutes was lack lustre as the lack of bodies in the box / attack was an issue. Early in the season so expect more chances to be created in future games even when we play with one striker but ideally we need two / three strikers (Carroll, Suarez & Kuyt) out there most days in whatever formation Kenny sees fit. More players who know where the goal is basically. 

Arsenal had more of a spine/bite than usually especially when you think how many of those lads were squad players. Probably would have shared the points if they had 11 players on the pitch.  If we can beat Bolton then that will be a tremendous start to the season.
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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2011, 04:49:50 pm »
I agree, 7 points from our first three fixtures would be a good start and we would've taken an away draw with two home wins. I think the boost from beating Arsenal, no matter how fortuitously, will give us a good chance of getting to October with a decent run of form when hopefully Kenny's success against the top sides will see us gain an edge going into our traditional winter worries.
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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2011, 05:25:43 pm »
I thought it was harsh as well.  Just relaying that Poll said it wasn't offside and the ref/linesmen made the correct decision. 

Still, last week we had to contend with a lack of red card and a goal not given that would've changed the complexion of that game.

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2011, 06:03:27 pm »
Haven't seen the game at all, so here's a couple of overarching questions to get us going.

Joy since ten year's time when Titi took us to our last victory. Was it Arsene raging against the fading of the light, Arsenal not bothered or what had Kenny done to keep us playing til the end?  A case of Gunners giving up or Us til the end of the road?

Ok a lot was made by the manager and the media about how many players Arsenal had out, yet no mention of our missing players, Stevie, Glen, and Luis on the bench.  It was agreed a good time to play Arsenal but they had quality on the pitch, given how many quality international in the midfield and strikers they had, one good point to focus on was the amount of possesion we had especially in the first half this is almost unheard of at the Emirates.

2. What differences between this and the Sunderland game did you see?

The first half against Sunderland was better than the Arsenal match but the second half against Sunderland was far worse, so I would say whereas the Sunderland game was like a Curates Egg, this performance was a far more solid one throughout the whole game, it could be we were witnessing improvements in fitness from the Sunderland game or perhaps better concentration and application but it was a far more solid performance to build on!

3. Anyone starting to stand out amongst the new or old?

No offence to young John Flanagan but Kelly is different class for now in fact i would think on that performance Glen should be worried.

Enrique played like he has been in our team for years, very astute and commanding performance and considering he was up against Walcott that bodes well for our future. I wanted Clichy but so happy to eat humble pie about Jose.

Lucas and Adam greater understanding and solid in the center and the Xabiesque shot in the first half from Adam was good to see.

Carroll was getting a lot of stick but i thought he put in a very good shift, up against a decent Center half who was on top of his game.

Downing getting better every game will be a major threat when he comes inside and shoots, Luis and Raul came on when the Arsenal team was tiring and used it to take over the game.

Finally a word for the also maligned Henderson he does the unglamorous stuff that people miss, but he was good i thought, always tried to move the ball on and gave a solid performance!



That should kickstart the chat.

yes it has! :scarf
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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2011, 10:45:49 pm »
Without answering each question directly, I wouldn't mind giving my two cents worth on the game.

I thought Lucas and the full backs were essential to the victory, on the whole they negated Arsenal's attacking threats and were superb in their decision making both defensively and when in possession.  I really like Lucas making the odd burst forward now and then.  It's a facet to his game I'm critical of if anything, he has a great ability to ghost into excellent positions but at times seems to lack the courage of conviction to do something when in the position.  His delaying of the pass to Meireles for the second goal though was brilliant.  Takes a good player to bide his time and wait for the opening to arise as opposed to trying to force it.

As for much of the talk about Henderson, he's most definitely a work in progress, but what we should take encouragement from is the fact he seems to have an innate ability to play pass and move football.  There's a lack of confidence in the final third from him at the moment - but training under Kenny Dalglish day in day out and working alongside a master in Gerrard when he's fully fit again should iron that one out.

For the time being though, once he's fully fit, Raul should be starting for me.  His link up with Suarez, as seen on Saturday - and has been evident since the United game if you ask me is a real strong point of ours.

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2011, 07:32:38 am »
my scouse this hysteric victories what shod be cellar braided, like subterranean Desmond's, 'cos bean a dick ate off waitin' after the Mr Booby Camera snap shot up Semen BUTT instead some pricks is folk arse why she ain't 0-6 vs Arseholes FC when she was weeker than Oliver!'s cruel gruel "so police Canny, we want sum whore." Kaur lummy! Them cants wanna strangulate by Boston's finest an' then there be Morgana Phelan off satisfaction in vengeful yet benevolent heart of SABU PUNDIT rites SABU PUNDIT.

Mata (not Juan, no, nut for us, my deers) plaid into the Libpole graspin' hand when this boy-tank had a red cart inserted up his PingPong wiv' foul more tasteless, more offensive than even pinta Green Kink IPA on our Mr Luger Sliver. This a pivot hole mormon in style Osmond's, a turnin' point, am think the scouse will agree.

Heir plait impotent part in this fixer. Witless it, the beer liga, lickpenny Cut-Price Waterhouse accountant manger Arson Wanga an' his barnet. Once so luxuriant, oh so viscous, yet shockin' red-juiced to Aloo-Pea-Sheer granny by miserable shower (both Wether an' the ex-sporters). This former Samson wish he still had a Sansom, innit, instead o'pack o'puppies he busy groomin' an' later flog at mark-up preposterous. His era of totalitarian football is comin' to a glistenin' end like GadaffiDuck's. An' Mr Roma Relish, who inexplicable glue sparse pelted AIDS ravaged stoat on bonce, like sickly Travis Biggles. His alms greener than ink critter boo Hulk, he SMASH from lethal bench. In dated gag, his combine with electrifiyin' Mr Loose Wires was slicker than Florida coast.

Libpole she in courage wiv' vast majority poor session at 51%. I'm sayin' to you, Mr Surly Atom is bloated waddlin' gat toothed slug to sum but he remorseless conductor in Mittal off park an' an instrumental in maintain the ball. Plus he show unexpect yet touchin' sentimentalism by Mr Alan-Zorro spoof shots to embarrass them's Steve Backley goatkeeper call Watch-it Chesney. An' furthermore, water 'bout the Mr Hearsay Eureka who school infant terrible Master Walnut? Eureka be olive oil lappin' an' muscular Spinich: a scouse Popeye. Thank you very much.
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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2011, 10:29:07 am »
Marry me.

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2011, 10:46:45 am »


Superb. Had to read it twice but it was well worth it.
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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2011, 11:08:16 am »
Marry me.

Get your mitts off, he's mine.

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2011, 12:35:20 pm »
Mr Surly Atom ;D
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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2011, 12:58:36 pm »
Wonderful. End of post match discussion on this one.
Yep.

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2011, 02:22:09 pm »
An' Mr Roma Relish, who inexplicable glue sparse pelted AIDS ravaged stoat on bonce, like sickly Travis Biggles. His alms greener than ink critter boo Hulk, he SMASH from lethal bench. In dated gag, his combine with electrifiyin' Mr Loose Wires was slicker than Florida coast.

Libpole she in courage wiv' vast majority poor session at 51%. I'm sayin' to you, Mr Surly Atom is bloated waddlin' gat toothed slug to sum but he remorseless conductor in Mittal off park an' an instrumental in maintain the ball. Plus he show unexpect yet touchin' sentimentalism by Mr Alan-Zorro spoof shots to embarrass them's Steve Backley goatkeeper call Watch-it Chesney.  Thank you very much.

It took me a little while to find Raul Merieles, Lis Suarez, Charlie Adam and a wonderful reference to Alonso in there. Just brill. Thank you very much Mr S Pundit innit.
Yep.

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2011, 02:29:42 pm »
For the older posters Mr S Pundit has to be the Stanley Unwin of posters! Read three times still working it all out!
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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2011, 03:16:11 pm »
"there be Morgana Phelan off satisfaction"

:lmao

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2011, 04:48:52 pm »
"Watch-it Chesney"

Amazing.
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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2011, 05:50:49 pm »
Things to contemplate from the game:

We still weren't particularly good, even if we were good enough to beat a weak and dispirited Arsenal team. Adam disappointed. Taking too long on the ball every time and then playing the simple pass. Its not the simple pass I'm worried about, its like he's still looking for the Hollywood ball before making the right decision. His decision making needs to be quicker.

Carroll, still looks so clumsy, which he didn't 12 months ago, weirdly. I think more will click into place when he gets some confidence from scoring and Gerrard gets back in the team.

The subs made the team better but I still think we lack creativity in the team. Suarez provides heaps but when he's not there where is it? Meireles, Gerrard, Downing and Johnson and Kuyt (to an extent) all will provide some but as of yet, its been quite sterile stuff. Will need to improve again for the weekend.

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2011, 08:43:16 pm »
Love these topics Hinesy... keep up the good work.  I passed my entire commute reading page 1 of this one on monday on my android phone.

Just to give my take:

Can't understand why so much negativity after a win against one of our closest rivals - by which I mean one of the teams we're most likely to be competing against for a top 4 spot, even if they are having a bit of a crisi at the moment.  This time last year I could perhaps have understood it, but a craftily worked out set of tactics and a set of solid performances across the team can only be a positive for me - it was only the 2nd proper game of the season, away at a venure we've never won at.  Well done Kenny & Clarkey

One point I do feel needs to be made is that the great teams of the 70s and 80s were never 100% perfect in either application or skill and even sometimes tactics (Wimbledon anyone?).  What they did do was keep going for the full 90 mins and for the whole season.  I get the feeling that's what Kenny is trying to inculcate here.  A lot has been made of the way we surrendered possession and energy in the 2nd half against Sunderland, but I would put that down to the lads still not yet up to full fitness.  As the games come and go, I'd expect to see less of that kind of fading and more of the steady remorseless constant pressure on the opposition we used to see in the 70s and 80s.  This will take time and patience (!!), but I do believe its what we are aiming for.

I really don't have any concerns about Andy Carroll.  I think he did a solid job on Saturday which wore down the Arsenal Back line, ready for Suarez & Meireles to take advantage.  His closing down and work rate was excellent.  Goals will come for the lad, especially when we start delivering the ball to him in the box - not just to his bonce, either.

MOM was Lucas for me.  Won't give the time of day to those who either don't or won't open their eyes and see just what he brings to this team.  Saturday was a perfect example of this.  Was booked unjustly, and a free kick given outside our box.  The bloke next to me at the pub starts moaning about how he's "always giving free kicks away outside the box".  One.  One free kick in the entire game. What a whopper.

Mark my words, Lucas will be a legend in 15 - 20 years from now.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings.  Great win, positive signs of progress, good attitudes from every player, and a great idea Hinesy:  let the rabble blow off steam then have a sensible conversation when the hot air has dissipated!

YNWA

Believe...

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #74 on: August 24, 2011, 04:29:05 pm »
It was a good team performance by the boys - better than I expected. The duel of the day involved Lucas v Nasri (probably the best two players on the pitch). I think Lucas edged it even though the brilliant Nasri escaped him a couple of times. Indeed Lucas continues to impress and life at Liverpool would be hard without him. I don't think we rely on him the way we used to rely on Alonso - which is probably healthy - but if we lost him to injury it would be tough for us. He wins the ball with frightening regularity and stunning efficiency. And he moves it on quickly and intelligently too.

I want to join the chorus of approval for Luis Enrique too. He has some tremendous attributes for a left back. He's quick, both over the ground and on the turn, he's strong and competitive, and he has high technique. I adore the way he prefers to get out of defensive predicaments by taking the game to the opposition. OK, Walcott is a particularly dozy player and he doesn't have it in him to put up a fight. But credit to Enrique for gleaning that information as early as the second minute. For the remainder of the game he trampled all over him. Capello was watching wasn't he? I doubt we'll see Walcott in an England shirt for a while.

Downing is shaping to be the buy of the summer though. He moves so beautifully with the ball and is a real head-up player. With pace like his in the team it becomes possible again for the Reds to monopolise possession. Four or five times on Saturday Downing carried the ball at pace through two zones. When you have players who can do that there's less temptation to hoof. There's end product too. He passes well. I can't wait to see him in harmony with Luis Suarez.

Kelly had a grand game. These Arsenal fans must be wondering how we manage to develop all these great young full backs. Flanagan and Robinson last year, Kelly this. What's gratifying is that we do it without much fanfare as well.

The concern remains Dirk Kuyt of course. In the first 20 minutes he didn't do a single thing right. He sold himself time and again attempting to charge the full backs, he kept losing possession and slowing down play, and he gifted a few passes straight to Arsenal players in dangerous positions. He improved a little bit after that, but never really got up to speed with his teammates. When he left the field to be replaced by Meireles we took off. Surely, this will be the season we start to say 'goodbye' to Dirk. No more sand in the gears as we seek to impose ourselves on other teams. 

« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 04:30:51 pm by yorkykopite »
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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #75 on: August 26, 2011, 03:29:43 pm »
Sorry but ;D
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Offline zabadoh

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Re: Round Table Discussion #2. Arsenal 0 - LFC 2.
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2011, 01:42:21 am »
I'm worried about how we didn't look like scoring until Suarez and Meireles came on at 71'

It's like when Carroll's in, we don't have a plan of attack other than lobbing balls in from the wings and the back line as if Carroll had his Peter Crouch mask on, and we know they're both better with the ball at their feet.

Frimpong will be a beast, if he can put some discipline into his tackling.
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