Author Topic: The Anfield Wrap  (Read 2295205 times)

Offline JamesG L4

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19440 on: October 28, 2018, 04:29:42 PM »
Neil Arkinson is allowed to get things wrong, itís fine he didnít want Shaqiri and he can get angry post match as much as he wants: fuck me, donít we all get angry after perfectly fine games and write players off? Thatís not the issue for me.

Thereís an issue, though, when the Post Match Pint is consistently better than the Pink. Neilís undoubtedly a strong presence and when heís seething it takes big characters to pull him up or disagree, the Shaqiri singing was a good example of this. Robbo and Neil were well prepared to go head to head on issues - the infamous ďcharacterĒ clash comes to mind - if the Pink is a flagship show then get the right mix of contributers on it. At the moment, itís becoming a show I wonít listen to, as Iíve already listened/ watched the Post Match Pint.

On top of losing the Citytalk podcast, which I loved (I know there are replacements, but I just liked the flow and length of that podcast more), I can see TAW is in a transitional phase and I hope the constructive feedback on here helps inform how people are feeling.

Iíll subscribe as long as TAW exists, itís simply brilliant and Iíll bang the drum for it loud and proud to anyone who will listen, and have done on here many times. Just feel itís a pity when some of what makes TAW magic is being diluted.

« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 04:55:53 PM by JamesG L4 »
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Offline tmsneil

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19441 on: October 28, 2018, 05:22:49 PM »
OK, let's do some of this in order. Starting with the chat about The Greatest as it is useful as a microcosm.

There is a strange thing that sometimes you have to experiment with what you do in public and new shows is a great example of that. As is new voices. On The Greatest, it probably hasn't been as crisp as I would like yet but it might well find its feet. It might not, it might end up joining an array of shows which we did a few of and then stopped. That's alright and we will box that and feedback is always worth having but we are always flying and building the plane at the same time.

On the idea of us doing too much content - we have done less audio content by this stage this season than we had done by this time last. Further the last time we did a 10 show week we had people asking us for more. Everyone wants different things, everyone has a different show they wish we were doing more of.  Someone just there has said they want more Wildcards, elsewhere people  are saying it is different to other shows. There has been no shift in the amount of time able to be spent on editorial focus and in fact we're in the process of changing a couple of things to be able to add further editorial focus. There will be some crossover on shows but - to give a quick example - this week The Friday Show and Teamtalk were hugely different - TFS didn't touch on Liverpool  at all but it will next week  because TFS is the best weekend premier league preview show available and we are the biggest game next weekend. I would argue Friday Show is reason enough to subscribe but other people have their own favourite shows. We want our shows not to be the best amongst supporter media but the best fullstop. I think we do more good football audio shows than any network in the world if you take out the actual live football commentary which we cannot do.

Currently we are working on bringing in another 3 - 5 formats for the start of the new year. It's constant renewal, but again, constant renewal means making mistakes in public. The idea isn't that everyone listens to everything, just as it isn't for Netflix that everyone watches everything and that every Netflix show is absolutely brilliant.

However I do think from this discussion we need to be clearer on two things for all subscribers:

1. What shows are what.
2. When they are coming out.

We're putting a plan together around that.

We also are constantly looking to find new voices and different voices. The Liverpool diaspora is massive, for us what matters isn't where people are from but where they are at and the first part of where they are at is being in Liverpool at the time of recording. I like having people on post match shows who have never been to Anfield before because I want that sense of wonder at seeing The Reds.

Some of these new voices won't work either or will involve letting people find their feet or find their shows but broadly the contributors brought on the last twelve to eighteen months have been really good. It isn't Mike Girling and Rob Gutmann sitting in a room together but Mike has moved away. That's a shame. Dan Austin has recently gone away which has been a blow. People have lives and therefore we have to be organic, have a range of voices and be able to react. If Rob needs to have a quiet few weeks because he is opening a new bar we can't throw our hands up and not do shows. We won't always get it right but we're very engaged with getting it right. Also everyone would soon be bored if it was just me, Rob and John chatting all the time. I'd include me and John in that. If not Rob.

Being fair on the number of shows though there is the addition of the video shows. Some people want to engage with supporter media through video and if we are doing video we want the video to be as good as it can be. Gareth is leading on presenting that because he is a really good presenter. We're pleased with how it is going but the journey it is on will be long both in terms of that content, how it is supplied and so on.

Partners are important to us but we do select who we work with. Also we've not had anything behind the paywall since the CL Final except for Redsbet who are our lead partners for the whole year and Slingsby for AFQ, which I am fine with as they give us the gin and we drink it. Redsbet is one 3 to 7 minute segment a week, no more. If that is too much for you then fair enough but that is all there is bar the intro and outro of the Monday show. If you are subscribing but hearing ads you must be listening to the free feed. If you have examples where that isn't the case do let me know. Really shouldn't be happening and would suggest there is a technical issue we need to look into.

Yesterday's Pink - I think my Review here (https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2018/10/liverpool-cardiff-review/) makes my wider point better and was finished as I began to calm down and I think I would have been calmer if it hadn't been for Salah's attempt to do the keeper from 70 yards which is exactly the sort of thing which gets my goat and was a cherry on top of an infuriating cake. I'm not thinking of Manchester City/goal difference. I am thinking of Ferguson's United who tended to play their best football against smaller teams once they went one up. They changed realities quickly. We had a real opportunity to do that against Cardiff but we allowed them to rope-a-dope us and played the game on their terms. It was unfolding exactly how Warnock would like bar the first goal and it just drove me absolutely mad watching it. Just seemed so casual combined with how awful Cardiff were. I don't think I was alone, the manager kept doing that thing where he does big circles with his arms to his players. Most definitely not about entitlement nor about the idea we should have won by 6 or 7. I have been saying for months we need to remember that there have been seasons like 2011/12 where we only scored 4 at home in the league once. That 4 didn't really count either that season as it was after the cup final.

Perhaps I was too harsh but immediate post match reaction is immediate post match reaction and I walked out livid with the passive reds. You heard that.

If anyone wants to ask anything I'll keep an eye on this across the next few days.

And lastly to go back a few pages it is more than ok for people not to like me and not be massive fans  of me. Obviously. Jeffrey Lewis nailed that one ages ago and these are words to hold close when going after any pursuit I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7kHi2gffeY

Offline tmsneil

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19442 on: October 28, 2018, 05:23:41 PM »
On top of losing the Citytalk podcast, which I loved (I know there are replacements, but I just liked the flow and length of that podcast more), I can see TAW is in a transitional phase and I hope the constructive feedback on here helps inform how people are feeling.
Are you listening to The Weekender, James? For me it is Citytalk but better. And it is also making what goes out on Citytalk better. Am intrigued by this.

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19443 on: October 28, 2018, 06:08:50 PM »
Yeah that's a fair point

However last night's podcast touched a nerve with me if I'm honest.
Mainly because its not a one off... not with TAW especially but with the liverpool fan base as a whole.
There's some weird entitlement shit going on at the moment - that we are entitled to be competing for and winning the league and that it should be done playing champagne football

Sometimes I want to put our fans / talking heads into a time machine and force them to watch the entire season of  Souness's boys in 1993-94 !!!

It's fine to criticise... its also fine to constructively criticise when we win .... but if you're actually angry or consumed with negativity because our team didn't shoot the lights out in the middle part of a game that they WON 4-1 TO GO 3 POINTS CLEAR AT THE TOP OF THE LEAGUE... then you're really not getting the enjoyment out of fandom you should and you should do something else with your time

Spot on this.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19444 on: October 28, 2018, 06:44:07 PM »
The Greatest is a good (great?!) concept I think, but probably dependent on the topic. The statement wins one was a great listen, three up some brilliant games to reminisce about and worked a lot better than the front 3 show did I think. Would definitely listen to more.

Also recently listened to all the WWCHs from 01/02 which was fantastic. Love how it makes you think back to events and then one of the contributors mentions it to. Had forgotten quite how much off the field stuff there was around then too.

Offline red annie

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19445 on: October 28, 2018, 06:45:18 PM »
About Yesterdayís ďPinkĒ

It made quite uncomfortable listening. It wasnít what was said or the sentiments expressed. Broadly speaking it was difficult to really disagree with anything. The Salah attempt to chip their golaie was as annoying as it gets and they were very passive for big chunks of the match.

It was the way it was said that felt wrong. In general TAW has swerved the sort of abusive nonsense that certain elements of our fanbase like to indulge in. The comments and language used about Lallana and Trent in particular felt very close to that line. I really donít remember hearing that on TAW before, even after some of our more desperate performances at the end of Rodgersí tenure.

I did listen again this morning and it still felt uncomfortable.

It is entirely possible that I am turning into an elderly snowflake. But that was my take on it.

I still think TAW is the best fiver a month I spend though.

Offline Iska

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19446 on: October 28, 2018, 06:53:51 PM »
I thought The Pink was fine myself.  But then Iím of the view that it canít fail so long as everyoneís saying whatís really on their mind.  Thought Paul Cope(?) had a decent stab at giving a contrary view too, you also need one of those.

Offline Dougle

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19447 on: October 28, 2018, 09:44:15 PM »
OK, let's do some of this in order. Starting with the chat about The Greatest as it is useful as a microcosm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7kHi2gffeY

Thanks for taking the time to put this down. I liked your quip about Rob by the way !
I like you guys taking risks, involving new people, having a spread of "outsiders". I loved John's travelling kop chat with the 2 Irish lads pre-Cardiff for example.
Some of my favourite people are Rebecca (Chelsea), Paul (Spurs), Ste (Utd), Matt (Ev), Robbie(Palace). I enjoy the voices and opinions of supporters of other clubs.
In the last while you've made an effort to involve more women, you're giving people their head in fronting up shows. You can see confidence and personality growing with the youngsters like Josh.
In short I think ye gang are doing a brilliant job and creating a real connected feel between people and their experiences of loving this club. city, game, history.
I couldn't give a toss about any Pink or any one-off show, if I don't agree or like it that's fine.
I know it's smart to treat praise and criticism with equal non-attachment but mate, this is a fantastic creation and you all deserve huge credit for not just what ye do but how ye do it.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19448 on: October 29, 2018, 12:24:51 AM »
  Thought Paul Cope(?) had a decent stab at giving a contrary view too, you also need one of those.
It was Paul Senior, Iska. The stabilising influence of the show  ;D

It's often, rightfully observed on TAW, how as fans we don't recognise how opposition players block the passing lines. It wasn't until the second half when Cardiff defended the Kop end we could see what they were doing. You had to have a particular angle in the ground watching their back line to understand their drill. 5 at the back with 1 constantly coming out and pressing. It was ultra-Warnock weary like who wanted a 2-nil defeat but the Reds fucked him off with a 4-1 twatting.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19449 on: October 29, 2018, 05:58:13 AM »
:lmao

The post match show - what a bunch of moaning minnies :lmao :lmao

Offline lamonti

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19450 on: October 29, 2018, 07:19:26 AM »
Donít know who this Emily Dona is but I have zero interest in listening to her talk about football.

I admire TAW's consistent addition of women's voices to what is so traditionally a boy's club but this, this and this.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19451 on: October 29, 2018, 08:03:47 AM »
I admire TAW's consistent addition of women's voices to what is so traditionally a boy's club but this, this and this.
Agreed.

Nothing to do with her gender - she's not very interesting or engaging unfortunately

Offline Learpholl

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19452 on: October 29, 2018, 08:38:19 AM »
Agreed.

Nothing to do with her gender - she's not very interesting or engaging unfortunately

I feel the same about Rebecca Knight, stopped listening to shows she is on.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19453 on: October 29, 2018, 08:44:15 AM »
OK, let's do some of this in order. Starting with the chat about The Greatest as it is useful as a microcosm.

There is a strange thing that sometimes you have to experiment with what you do in public and new shows is a great example of that. As is new voices. On The Greatest, it probably hasn't been as crisp as I would like yet but it might well find its feet. It might not, it might end up joining an array of shows which we did a few of and then stopped. That's alright and we will box that and feedback is always worth having but we are always flying and building the plane at the same time.

On the idea of us doing too much content - we have done less audio content by this stage this season than we had done by this time last. Further the last time we did a 10 show week we had people asking us for more. Everyone wants different things, everyone has a different show they wish we were doing more of.  Someone just there has said they want more Wildcards, elsewhere people  are saying it is different to other shows. There has been no shift in the amount of time able to be spent on editorial focus and in fact we're in the process of changing a couple of things to be able to add further editorial focus. There will be some crossover on shows but - to give a quick example - this week The Friday Show and Teamtalk were hugely different - TFS didn't touch on Liverpool  at all but it will next week  because TFS is the best weekend premier league preview show available and we are the biggest game next weekend. I would argue Friday Show is reason enough to subscribe but other people have their own favourite shows. We want our shows not to be the best amongst supporter media but the best fullstop. I think we do more good football audio shows than any network in the world if you take out the actual live football commentary which we cannot do.

Currently we are working on bringing in another 3 - 5 formats for the start of the new year. It's constant renewal, but again, constant renewal means making mistakes in public. The idea isn't that everyone listens to everything, just as it isn't for Netflix that everyone watches everything and that every Netflix show is absolutely brilliant.

However I do think from this discussion we need to be clearer on two things for all subscribers:

1. What shows are what.
2. When they are coming out.

We're putting a plan together around that.

We also are constantly looking to find new voices and different voices. The Liverpool diaspora is massive, for us what matters isn't where people are from but where they are at and the first part of where they are at is being in Liverpool at the time of recording. I like having people on post match shows who have never been to Anfield before because I want that sense of wonder at seeing The Reds.

Some of these new voices won't work either or will involve letting people find their feet or find their shows but broadly the contributors brought on the last twelve to eighteen months have been really good. It isn't Mike Girling and Rob Gutmann sitting in a room together but Mike has moved away. That's a shame. Dan Austin has recently gone away which has been a blow. People have lives and therefore we have to be organic, have a range of voices and be able to react. If Rob needs to have a quiet few weeks because he is opening a new bar we can't throw our hands up and not do shows. We won't always get it right but we're very engaged with getting it right. Also everyone would soon be bored if it was just me, Rob and John chatting all the time. I'd include me and John in that. If not Rob.

Being fair on the number of shows though there is the addition of the video shows. Some people want to engage with supporter media through video and if we are doing video we want the video to be as good as it can be. Gareth is leading on presenting that because he is a really good presenter. We're pleased with how it is going but the journey it is on will be long both in terms of that content, how it is supplied and so on.

Partners are important to us but we do select who we work with. Also we've not had anything behind the paywall since the CL Final except for Redsbet who are our lead partners for the whole year and Slingsby for AFQ, which I am fine with as they give us the gin and we drink it. Redsbet is one 3 to 7 minute segment a week, no more. If that is too much for you then fair enough but that is all there is bar the intro and outro of the Monday show. If you are subscribing but hearing ads you must be listening to the free feed. If you have examples where that isn't the case do let me know. Really shouldn't be happening and would suggest there is a technical issue we need to look into.

Yesterday's Pink - I think my Review here (https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2018/10/liverpool-cardiff-review/) makes my wider point better and was finished as I began to calm down and I think I would have been calmer if it hadn't been for Salah's attempt to do the keeper from 70 yards which is exactly the sort of thing which gets my goat and was a cherry on top of an infuriating cake. I'm not thinking of Manchester City/goal difference. I am thinking of Ferguson's United who tended to play their best football against smaller teams once they went one up. They changed realities quickly. We had a real opportunity to do that against Cardiff but we allowed them to rope-a-dope us and played the game on their terms. It was unfolding exactly how Warnock would like bar the first goal and it just drove me absolutely mad watching it. Just seemed so casual combined with how awful Cardiff were. I don't think I was alone, the manager kept doing that thing where he does big circles with his arms to his players. Most definitely not about entitlement nor about the idea we should have won by 6 or 7. I have been saying for months we need to remember that there have been seasons like 2011/12 where we only scored 4 at home in the league once. That 4 didn't really count either that season as it was after the cup final.

Perhaps I was too harsh but immediate post match reaction is immediate post match reaction and I walked out livid with the passive reds. You heard that.

If anyone wants to ask anything I'll keep an eye on this across the next few days.

And lastly to go back a few pages it is more than ok for people not to like me and not be massive fans  of me. Obviously. Jeffrey Lewis nailed that one ages ago and these are words to hold close when going after any pursuit I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7kHi2gffeY

Thanks Neil,

I read your written review first so wasn't surprised by the Pink. The strength of the Wrap from the start has been the sense that it's a group of people who are part of 'us' rather than 'them' and for the most part that's reassuring because for the most part we all tend to agree (give or take differences over particular players).

We are in a strange place at the moment when it's clear that we have the potential to win the league but also know that City are juggernauts with their oil money and Pep.

We've been there before when Roman bought Chelsea and Mourinho won the league with a relentless campaign. But we had Rafa and Istanbul and for a while it seemed that he would take us to the title we all crave - 08/09 felt like we were almost there but the ownership issues bought it all crashing down.

In 13/14 we won the league (almost) and played amazing football but again it was a false dawn. I don't want to speak for you but for me there's a small nagging doubt that even as we assemble an amazing team with the perfect manager under owners who are showing real commitment, that circumstances (City) will once again snatch away victory unless we are absolutely perfect.

There are very few teams that are going to lose to City and we have to match that. We can't rely on anyone taking points off them - it will happen but rarely - so our attitude to every game has to be the same. And though it's mad to be worried about goal difference after 10 games, it will be an issue. We should have scored 7 or 8 and we shouldn't have conceded. That's not arrogance of entitlement - it's simply a question of whether or not we ant to win the league this season.

Keep up the good work. It's good to hear new voices as well as the old favourites.



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Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19454 on: October 29, 2018, 08:55:17 AM »
Used to fucking love the pink.

Donít enjoy listening to nothing but a moan after a 4-1 win. 2.6 points per game.

Ronnie Moran would have disagreed with this it's fair to say. What do you want out of this season? Be top for 24 hours? Win 4-1 while City are winning 6-0? get 2.6 points per game and lose the title on goal difference?

Neil's comments were the podcast equivalent of Moran sticking a cardboard box of medals on the table and saying 'take one if you think you deserve one'.
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19455 on: October 29, 2018, 09:01:36 AM »
Ronnie Moran would have disagreed with this it's fair to say. What do you want out of this season? Be top for 24 hours? Win 4-1 while City are winning 6-0? get 2.6 points per game and lose the title on goal difference?

Neil's comments were the podcast equivalent of Moran sticking a cardboard box of medals on the table and saying 'take one if you think you deserve one'.

Nah - don't agree at all.  Worst Pink I have ever listened to.  It was awful.
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Offline lamonti

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19456 on: October 29, 2018, 09:03:50 AM »
I have no problem with him berating that performance... that's fine. It's not spoilt, it's the knowledge that we're really in it this time and we had opened up a sliver of a chance of dropping two points in a manner that was unforgivable and that we've seen far too often. Drawing 0-0 at Fulham to go top of the league in 08/09 was one such shite result.

Offline Jookie

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19457 on: October 29, 2018, 09:14:09 AM »
Yesterday's Pink - I think my Review here (https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2018/10/liverpool-cardiff-review/) makes my wider point better and was finished as I began to calm down and I think I would have been calmer if it hadn't been for Salah's attempt to do the keeper from 70 yards which is exactly the sort of thing which gets my goat and was a cherry on top of an infuriating cake. I'm not thinking of Manchester City/goal difference. I am thinking of Ferguson's United who tended to play their best football against smaller teams once they went one up. They changed realities quickly. We had a real opportunity to do that against Cardiff but we allowed them to rope-a-dope us and played the game on their terms. It was unfolding exactly how Warnock would like bar the first goal and it just drove me absolutely mad watching it. Just seemed so casual combined with how awful Cardiff were. I don't think I was alone, the manager kept doing that thing where he does big circles with his arms to his players. Most definitely not about entitlement nor about the idea we should have won by 6 or 7. I have been saying for months we need to remember that there have been seasons like 2011/12 where we only scored 4 at home in the league once. That 4 didn't really count either that season as it was after the cup final.

Perhaps I was too harsh but immediate post match reaction is immediate post match reaction and I walked out livid with the passive reds. You heard that.


I know some people will be surprised by Neil's post match reaction but I wasn't particularly. Listened to it on Sunday morning but on Saturday night my old fella had pretty much said the same things Neil had. Came out of the match happy with the win and result we got in the end but rarely disappointed with how we'd approached parts of the game. He thought we were too passive for big chunks of the game and allowed ourselves to be brought down to Cardiff's level. I don't think my old fella is feeling a sense of entitlement about how we should be beating Cardiff 6, 7-0. He's been going for years so he's been to enough games, and seen enough shite Liverpool teams over the last 30 years to appreciate what this team is all about. Maybe because he knows how good this team is, he's going the get annoyed when we allow ourselves to be brought down to the level of one of the worst teams to play in the Premier League over the last 10 years. We did that in parts of Saturday's game.

To be fair he didn't call them a 'disgrace' though  ;)
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19458 on: October 29, 2018, 09:16:35 AM »
I feel the same about Rebecca Knight, stopped listening to shows she is on.
Rebecca is awful when she's the show's Chelsea rep, but I find her quite knowledgeable and engaging on the European Show.
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19459 on: October 29, 2018, 09:47:12 AM »
Listening to The Pink, I was thinking that some of it was driven by fear. Once they got to 2-1, Iím sure I wasnít the only one who sat there (in a very quiet Anfield) thinking ĎIf they get another, itís 11 men behind the ball, more time wasting, more being massive c*nts.í And wondering if we can break that down. And thinking back to how casual and sedated we were after we went 1-0 up and wondering why we didnít make the most of it.

Sometimes I do think that not everyone has bought into the defence and improved organisation of this side - thereís still a few waiting for the collapse, waiting for the rug to be pulled from underneath us and you can feel that. One will happen and it will be fine, because thatís football but at the minute, it feels people are so desperate to distance ourselves from those memories that only 3/4/5 nil wins will do it. Iím not saying itís necessarily the case here but I think across our fan base there are massive elements of this. Maybe twinned with the desperation for our front 3 Ďto clickí. I personally think what we see now is the new norm, bar an improved final ball/pass in the final third but there is an expectation that we will start consistently rolling teams over by 3/4 goals. Not sure itís coming, myself.

Maybe one for a different thread, but during that first half on Saturday I was thinking about what would happen should we go more than 1 down against a top side. Do we still have the ability to be so hung-ho that we could turn that around? Is it a case of Klopp letting them loose? Hopefully we wonít have to answer that but itís in the back of my mind.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 09:49:14 AM by Ciara (with a capital "C") »
JFT96.

Offline OneTouchFooty

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19460 on: October 29, 2018, 10:35:31 AM »
Didnít think anything was wrong with the post match show, it echoed my own views of pure frustration at 1-0 and think people are maybe missing the slight wryness of some views. The fact is we looked far too content playing in 1st gear against an appalling Cardiff team that were there for the taking after weíve moaned the goals arenít flowing.

Playing it safe, moves breaking down far too easily and no one wanting to take charge was irritating to watch as it wasnít a ďgrind out 1-0Ē game. Yes, we turned it around in the end but itís perfectly valid to criticise parts of the game to try and find angles to create discussion. The ďjoint top tho and winning games ladĒ shout on every show doesnít make compelling listening.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 10:37:29 AM by OneTouchFooty »

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19461 on: October 29, 2018, 10:46:48 AM »
Didn't listen, but can sort of understand Neil's frustrations.

Alan is right when he says that a great team, with a perfect manager and supportive owners (slight paraphrase) may still fall short due to a combination of an oil rich club and Guardiola. I think this underpins some of the frustrations, but also shows why any Liverpool fan needs to support the manager when idiotic pundits tell us that he's got to win something, or that he's failed if we don't win the league.
If we get 90+ and don't win the league - what do you do? It'll probably him that walks away if we have a couple of those seasons.

So I think that it's against that backdrop that the frustrations exist. I was livid with some of our sloppiness on Saturday, especially Lallana slowing things down, and Bobby having one of those games when he gives it away easily.

That said as a fan base, we do need to relax and enjoy the process. We can't affect what City do, apart from 180 minutes, we just need to try and enjoy watching what is developing into a top class football team.


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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19462 on: October 29, 2018, 11:49:54 AM »

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19463 on: October 29, 2018, 11:56:34 AM »
Good post above.

Is this worthy of wider discussion away from this thread?

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19464 on: October 29, 2018, 01:07:23 PM »
Superb post from James G.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19465 on: October 29, 2018, 01:22:06 PM »

Yesterday's Pink - I think my Review here (https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2018/10/liverpool-cardiff-review/) makes my wider point better and was finished as I began to calm down and I think I would have been calmer if it hadn't been for Salah's attempt to do the keeper from 70 yards which is exactly the sort of thing which gets my goat and was a cherry on top of an infuriating cake. I'm not thinking of Manchester City/goal difference. I am thinking of Ferguson's United who tended to play their best football against smaller teams once they went one up. They changed realities quickly. We had a real opportunity to do that against Cardiff but we allowed them to rope-a-dope us and played the game on their terms. It was unfolding exactly how Warnock would like bar the first goal and it just drove me absolutely mad watching it. Just seemed so casual combined with how awful Cardiff were. I don't think I was alone, the manager kept doing that thing where he does big circles with his arms to his players. Most definitely not about entitlement nor about the idea we should have won by 6 or 7. I have been saying for months we need to remember that there have been seasons like 2011/12 where we only scored 4 at home in the league once. That 4 didn't really count either that season as it was after the cup final.


This is fair enough, but it's worth bearing in mind that Utd also built up this mythology of being relentless despite going many games with a lacklustre attitude. Even when they had their most potent attack of recent times in 08/09 they went on a ridiculous run of 1-0s. Not even the combined attack of Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney or Berbatov was capable of consistently playing at full throttle. The myth gets built over time, and winning helps scare the smaller teams far more than the manner of winning. Many teams turned up beaten at OT not because they thought they were going to get relentlessly attacked, but because they knew that even if they defended well and nullified the attack for 90 minutes, Utd may still pull something out of the bag and get the three points. It's fair enough to be worried if the casualness becomes a long term malaise, but it's not fair to compare one game against the best of Ferguson's teams.
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19466 on: October 29, 2018, 01:37:10 PM »
Snip

As many have said - a very well argued post. I was a bit surprised about how strong the feelings were on The Pink, but I understand the overall frustration with some of the performance.

Am worried about any sort of complacency, arrogance or selfishness creeping into the team - partly because our style of play relies more heavily on selfless work, clever passing and stop-on decision-making than other tactics. There have times this season when we have looked just short of our best, and it has been because the players in the final third have chosen to shoot or a difficult pass, instead of the simple or more logical option which would have created a clearer goal-scoring opportunity. Obviously this is very easy to judge with hindsight, but it is what we were fantastic at last season.

Our defending as a team has been superb so far, and the midfield has been pretty effective despite integrating Keita/Shaqiri/Fabinho into a difficult system. I would still take our strike force over anyone's, and don't think for a minute they have the arrogance of a C. Ronaldo, but when performances look off due to a poor attitude then I think it is right to highlight it.

Obviously we won convincingly in the end, and 99% of the results so far have been brilliant, but I don't want it to get derailed unnecessarily.


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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19467 on: October 29, 2018, 02:06:42 PM »
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19468 on: October 29, 2018, 03:14:14 PM »
A much more measured Monday show.

Nothing to see here, folks.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19469 on: October 29, 2018, 03:44:52 PM »
Brilliant post, James G.

Have never thought the team have looked arrogant. That Pink though, apart from Senior, sounded arrogant to me.

Though the narrative continued on today's show by the way. In the tone of why didn't Liverpool do more?

We won 4-1. Don't get the frustration. At all.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 04:07:26 PM by Raaphael »

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19470 on: October 29, 2018, 04:14:14 PM »
Though the narrative continued on today's show by the way. In the tone of why didn't Liverpool do more?

We won 4-1. Don't get the frustration. At all.

You can't see the difference between how it was discussed today and how it was discussed on Saturday?

Should TAW close the podcast and the RAWK admins close this forum every time we win?

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19471 on: October 29, 2018, 04:48:34 PM »
You can't see the difference between how it was discussed today and how it was discussed on Saturday?

Should TAW close the podcast and the RAWK admins close this forum every time we win?

Yeah, I definitely noticed the difference. But I still don't get the "critical angle" of it. That was a narrative that continued from the weekend, which-well, I find strange after a 4-1 win where my thought would be "Good win. 4-1 without running ourselves into the ground".
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 04:56:15 PM by Raaphael »

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19472 on: October 29, 2018, 05:06:12 PM »
The Review is more or less what I expected (as opposed to that very weird Pink)

Neil continued with his theme of 'we were too flat after 3 of the Cardiff players were on the ground ' but there was a good discussion around why that could be (Adams theory around the team learning to manage the game).

I enjoyed it - it was a good, solid listen.

Good balance.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19473 on: October 29, 2018, 07:21:00 PM »
The wider debate about Cardiff, Goal Difference and Chasing City has been moved here:

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=341400.0
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19474 on: October 30, 2018, 01:13:35 AM »
Rebecca is awful when she's the show's Chelsea rep, but I find her quite knowledgeable and engaging on the European Show.
Yep, she's very good on that. As are Paul Senior and Mo. Bit of an under rated show.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19475 on: October 30, 2018, 02:12:39 AM »
Today's free pod was excellent. Bit of an old school TAW line up with Gutman, Nevin, Kev Walsh and Adam Smith, with Neil hosting. Lots of intelligent and nuanced discussion with a variety of viewpoints aired. This for me is TAW at its best. It's on youtube but it had more of a podcast vibe.

I haven't been too keen on some of the recent stuff, especially things like the preview shows on youtube. Robbo is a solid presenter, but I think on video the format can come across a bit bland. Maybe it's a symptom of simply being on camera rather than being on a pod. It's jut too much like watching pundits on the telly, very middle of the road.
Or maybe it's just preview shows in general, where it's all speculation about line ups and predicting score lines. Boring.
Robbo is great on the post match pint shows and talking reds, where he's in his element, as well as other pods.

With review type shows, the contributors have some meat to chew on, actual talking points from the match etc. and I always find these more enjoyable and interesting.

As for Neil's tantrum on the pink, I held off on commenting aftewards until I heard him flesh out his views on other pods, which to be fair he did on the free show. I would still take Guttman and Mike Nev's position that it was a solid perfomance, the likes of which I grew up watching with Paisley and Houllier type sides. But to be fair to Neil he made some valid points and wasn't alone in his opinion.
The pink can be a bit like taking acid back in the day, you don't always know which way it'll go. You just get it into you and hope for the best. ;D

I agree with Neil that the Friday show is one of the best all round Premier League shows around. Might I make the suggestion that this show go on youtube? I think it would prove to be very popular with non-LFC fans and would reach a much wider audience.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 02:14:47 AM by kennedy81 »

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19476 on: October 30, 2018, 06:58:12 AM »
Yep, she's very good on that. As are Paul Senior and Mo. Bit of an under rated show.

Just curious, do you listen to any other podcasts about European Football? I find the folk on the European Football Show try their best but are so far behind compared to listening to Rafa Honigstein, Paolo Bandini, James Horncastle and the likes that you can get on other podcasts. I've always had the feeling that TAWs European Football Show is designed for people that only listen to TAW

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19477 on: October 30, 2018, 09:56:00 AM »
When you picked Paul Ince before Mascherano on that AFQ Football question I seriously considered cancelling my subscription.

Reminds me of the time Richie Partridge got picked before John Barnes in the schoolyard game that time.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19478 on: October 30, 2018, 10:23:24 AM »
Yep, she's very good on that. As are Paul Senior and Mo. Bit of an under rated show.

Her Jose love turns my stomach. She's a female Duncan Castles. Nauseating at times
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #19479 on: October 30, 2018, 12:19:08 PM »
When you picked Paul Ince before Mascherano on that AFQ Football question I seriously considered cancelling my subscription.

Reminds me of the time Richie Partridge got picked before John Barnes in the schoolyard game that time.

Haha! That is absolutely fair enough, I can't believe we didn't think of him.