Author Topic: General Manchester City thread  (Read 2324014 times)

Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33680 on: October 9, 2019, 09:28:56 PM »
Apart from in the Norwich and Wolves games you might say.

When you concede a crazy low number of shots, the variance on your xG/shot ratio is going to be extremely high. We have 3 seasons of data on Pep's City, and all of the data says the defence is very very good (and I think a big reason is their incredible possession advantage; you can't score if you don't have the ball and that won't change even if they are playing sub-par defenders)   

Perhaps the loss of Kompany and LaPorte (and Stones) will change that, but I very much doubt it.

Offline deFacto

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33681 on: October 9, 2019, 09:46:50 PM »
When you concede a crazy low number of shots, the variance on your xG/shot ratio is going to be extremely high. We have 3 seasons of data on Pep's City, and all of the data says the defence is very very good (and I think a big reason is their incredible possession advantage; you can't score if you don't have the ball and that won't change even if they are playing sub-par defenders)   

Perhaps the loss of Kompany and LaPorte (and Stones) will change that, but I very much doubt it.

Right now it shows that it is affecting them. Particularly because Rodri isn't Fernandinho and Fernandinho looks out of his depth playing as a CB. They have looked vulnerable in most of their games more so than they have ever before.

Offline TomDcs

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33682 on: October 9, 2019, 09:59:50 PM »
When you concede a crazy low number of shots, the variance on your xG/shot ratio is going to be extremely high. We have 3 seasons of data on Pep's City, and all of the data says the defence is very very good (and I think a big reason is their incredible possession advantage; you can't score if you don't have the ball and that won't change even if they are playing sub-par defenders)   

Perhaps the loss of Kompany and LaPorte (and Stones) will change that, but I very much doubt it.

Sorry but I completely disagree, when the players in the setup are moved around out of position and they are therefore worse. It’s different data, and all the possession in the world won’t make up for them being less equipped in defensive situations. Those couple of games may amount to a relative blip, but I very much doubt it, particularly when other teams have visibly seen the weaknesses and the players confidence will be lower.

Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33683 on: October 9, 2019, 10:03:52 PM »
Right now it shows that it is affecting them. Particularly because Rodri isn't Fernandinho and Fernandinho looks out of his depth playing as a CB. They have looked vulnerable in most of their games more so than they have ever before.

They looked vulnerable vs. Wolves yes. They could've been down 0-2 within 30 minutes.

Norwich to a lesser extent...1st goal was a set piece, 3rd goal was a catastrophic error by Otamendi.

I suppose you could argue Everton as well. Coulda been 2-2 if it weren't for Ederson.

You might be right...I've never really bought that Fernandinho was the key man for them but him playing CB as opposed to CDM is certainly a downgrade.

I'm skeptical though. Two or three non-consecutive games does not a trend make.



Offline deFacto

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33684 on: October 10, 2019, 12:22:16 AM »
They looked vulnerable vs. Wolves yes. They could've been down 0-2 within 30 minutes.

Norwich to a lesser extent...1st goal was a set piece, 3rd goal was a catastrophic error by Otamendi.

I suppose you could argue Everton as well. Coulda been 2-2 if it weren't for Ederson.

You might be right...I've never really bought that Fernandinho was the key man for them but him playing CB as opposed to CDM is certainly a downgrade.

I'm skeptical though. Two or three non-consecutive games does not a trend make.

No you are right it doesn't make a trend, but for the time being it's an obvious problem for them for the time being. Anyside who is capable of breaking quickly and getting at them in transition can hurt them if they take their chances. A back four of Walker Ottamendi Fernandinho and Zinchenko is asking for trouble.

They have enough attacking talent to win most matches but in the matches where the opposition can stay compact and break quickly [they have Palace coming up for instance] then they may find it frustrating like they have so far.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33685 on: October 10, 2019, 02:41:08 PM »
I did it, I had a look on BlueLoon regarding the "hacked scouting system." One lad reckons we should be demoted to the Championship another wants it investigating by plod. I don't think they understand they accepted a payment and that's it's been dealt with civil. Just because we're a much better team doesn't mean they can give us the payment back and start pointing fingers shouting Arrrrrr hoping a grown up is listening
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33686 on: October 10, 2019, 03:01:09 PM »


I do agree that they don't seem to have the dramatic comebacks that United, for example, frequently pulled off in the Ferguson days. Then again they so rarely fall behind.


That's because they haven't got anyone who can really control the game in the way that Webb could.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33687 on: October 10, 2019, 03:37:18 PM »
I did it, I had a look on BlueLoon regarding the "hacked scouting system." One lad reckons we should be demoted to the Championship another wants it investigating by plod. I don't think they understand they accepted a payment and that's it's been dealt with civil. Just because we're a much better team doesn't mean they can give us the payment back and start pointing fingers shouting Arrrrrr hoping a grown up is listening

It wasn't even hacking, they didn't bother changing or deleting passwords

Hope this Porto fella still has a login for their system ;D

Offline Zimagic

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33688 on: October 10, 2019, 03:41:31 PM »
I did it, I had a look on BlueLoon regarding the "hacked scouting system." One lad reckons we should be demoted to the Championship another wants it investigating by plod.

Look, we ran them close last year and have started well this season. Aside from a couple of exceptional seasons, generally spaced about 5-years apart, when we also fell short, we have not won much domestically. In fact, it's been decades since we've won more than a cup and even those have been pretty rare for a club of our historical stature.

All the theories, hand wringing, complaining, moaning and general head-falling-off is based on, well, pretty much nothing that says we'll actually win this year. We have a great recent history of narrowly missing out. Against them. Twice. We're the only club ever to be top at Christmas and not win it, a feat we managed 3 times!!

As a fan of Liverpool, I want us to win the league, I've been waiting since I was a young lad to see it again. I hope it's this year. Maybe it will be, maybe not, we'll see next May.

But between Man U, Man City, Spurs & Everton, you'd swear that we'd already won the bloody thing for the past 5 seasons and are sauntering to this years' again with our hands in our pockets, easy as you like. I just don't get where they go from here in terms of pure fume. The hatred, angst & bile is already quite amazing and we're still in October!! For a club that's famously managed not to make it over the line so many times, what's going to happen if we do? Does the world end or something? Calm down, lads, calm down! We're statistically more likely to screw it up again with margins as fine as they are, stop freaking out.

We're living in their heads. I just don't get that. I spend zero time thinking about those clubs if we're not playing them next and even then.... not much really.

It's all really quite bizarre to watch.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33689 on: October 10, 2019, 04:32:37 PM »
I did it, I had a look on BlueLoon regarding the "hacked scouting system." One lad reckons we should be demoted to the Championship another wants it investigating by plod. I don't think they understand they accepted a payment and that's it's been dealt with civil. Just because we're a much better team doesn't mean they can give us the payment back and start pointing fingers shouting Arrrrrr hoping a grown up is listening

It really is about time some serious investigative work was carried out on the "finances" of that club and the City Football group.

Must be a nightmare working for their payroll, sorting out 4 different salaries for each staff member and remembering which part of the group pays what and which sponsor they need to pay to pay the wages. (all hypothetical of course, they are whiter than white over there)

Look, we ran them close last year and have started well this season. Aside from a couple of exceptional seasons, generally spaced about 5-years apart, when we also fell short, we have not won much domestically. In fact, it's been decades since we've won more than a cup and even those have been pretty rare for a club of our historical stature.

All the theories, hand wringing, complaining, moaning and general head-falling-off is based on, well, pretty much nothing that says we'll actually win this year. We have a great recent history of narrowly missing out. Against them. Twice. We're the only club ever to be top at Christmas and not win it, a feat we managed 3 times!!

As a fan of Liverpool, I want us to win the league, I've been waiting since I was a young lad to see it again. I hope it's this year. Maybe it will be, maybe not, we'll see next May.

But between Man U, Man City, Spurs & Everton, you'd swear that we'd already won the bloody thing for the past 5 seasons and are sauntering to this years' again with our hands in our pockets, easy as you like. I just don't get where they go from here in terms of pure fume. The hatred, angst & bile is already quite amazing and we're still in October!! For a club that's famously managed not to make it over the line so many times, what's going to happen if we do? Does the world end or something? Calm down, lads, calm down! We're statistically more likely to screw it up again with margins as fine as they are, stop freaking out.

We're living in their heads. I just don't get that. I spend zero time thinking about those clubs if we're not playing them next and even then.... not much really.

It's all really quite bizarre to watch.


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« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 04:34:14 PM by rob1966 »

Offline rebel23

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33690 on: October 10, 2019, 04:50:21 PM »
Rodri lets slip about their constant dirty fouls:

Quote
Manchester City midfielder Rodri has revealed he's learned how to make 'tactical fouls' during his first three months working under Pep Guardiola.

Rodri moved to City in a £62.8 million move from Atletico Madrid in July after impressing Guardiola with his displays last season.

The 23-year-old has operated as a holding midfielder under Guardiola and Rodri says he's had to adapt to a very different set of responsibilities.

'I think it's a big challenge for me because I never used to play this position particularly,' he told ESPN FC. 'I didn't have this exact role in the team.

'We have lots of offensive players and many other teams try to counterattack you and a lot of the time you're alone but it's good for me.'

City have often been accused of making deliberate fouls to halt opposition teams in their tracks and Rodri has admitted it is a skill he has acquired under Guardiola.

'I am learning new things, how to go, when to stay, when I have to do a tactical foul, when I have to jump,' he continued.

'It's good for me to learn these things. And for the team it's good because we need those offensive players to be able to play our game.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7558879/Manchester-City-midfielder-Rodri-reveals-hes-learned-make-tactical-fouls.html

Offline Classycara

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33691 on: October 10, 2019, 05:10:05 PM »
Rodri lets slip about their constant dirty fouls:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7558879/Manchester-City-midfielder-Rodri-reveals-hes-learned-make-tactical-fouls.html


Haha, Pep had to train him to be more snide. Having grown up under Simeone. Amazing

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33692 on: October 10, 2019, 05:13:07 PM »
Haha, Pep had to train him to be more snide. Having grown up under Simeone. Amazing

:lmao when you put it like that...
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33693 on: October 10, 2019, 05:14:52 PM »
I'm sure Pip will rectify their problems with another £200m in January.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33694 on: October 10, 2019, 06:52:13 PM »
Haha, Pep had to train him to be more snide. Having grown up under Simeone. Amazing

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Offline royhendo

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33695 on: October 10, 2019, 06:53:11 PM »
I'm skeptical though. Two or three non-consecutive games does not a trend make.

That's true from a retrospective statistical proof point of view, but from an eye test point of view and from the common sense that relates to what you'd expect to happen when their keeper to centre halves to holding midfield shield unit gets compromised, the same thing happens that always happens - they find their ability to make tactical fouls goes to pot.

Hey presto there's an article saying Rodri's being coached on how to do it properly. They'll likely fix it, but they'll be vulnerable to decent quick combinations through their press up the park followed by decent direct play until they do, and the stats will retrospectively illustrate what's happened.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33696 on: October 10, 2019, 07:00:04 PM »
Would maybe also add that tactical fouling is an art form that Fernandinho has mastered beautifully. The problem is poor refereeing - if a player fouls consistently he’s supposed to be cautioned for it, but they’ve been let off with the pattern for as long as Pep has been here, and amazingly they cry arse about the game being bent.
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Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33697 on: October 10, 2019, 09:10:36 PM »
That's true from a retrospective statistical proof point of view, but from an eye test point of view and from the common sense that relates to what you'd expect to happen when their keeper to centre halves to holding midfield shield unit gets compromised, the same thing happens that always happens - they find their ability to make tactical fouls goes to pot.

Hey presto there's an article saying Rodri's being coached on how to do it properly. They'll likely fix it, but they'll be vulnerable to decent quick combinations through their press up the park followed by decent direct play until they do, and the stats will retrospectively illustrate what's happened.
Would maybe also add that tactical fouling is an art form that Fernandinho has mastered beautifully. The problem is poor refereeing - if a player fouls consistently he’s supposed to be cautioned for it, but they’ve been let off with the pattern for as long as Pep has been here, and amazingly they cry arse about the game being bent.

I agree that the problem is more refereeing than City; it is the ref's responsibility to book for blatant tactical fouls. I don't view it as "cheating" in the way play-acting or simulation is because their is no deliberate attempt to deceive the referee. They are being coached according to how the rules are being enforced, which is smart. We should be doing more of it ourselves (Fabinho is already well-versed in the dark arts)

I also agree that their recent blip makes sense logically, even if there isn't enough of a sample to reach definitive conclusions. But I guess I've become accustomed to Pep's machine-like consistency. Every blip he's ever had with Barcelona, Bayern, and City leads to the inevitable "he's been found out" or "he's cracking up" or "the pressure is getting to him" comments and all he does is keep racking up 90 + point seasons. It's possible that, much like his first season with City, he simply doesn't have the personnel in defense to effectively execute his system. But there are so few teams that can actually get the ball off them and keep their composure in possession that I'm not sure it's going to matter much until they get to later rounds of the Champions League. And by then they may be at full strength.

Offline mattD

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33698 on: October 11, 2019, 12:49:46 AM »
Would maybe also add that tactical fouling is an art form that Fernandinho has mastered beautifully. The problem is poor refereeing - if a player fouls consistently he’s supposed to be cautioned for it, but they’ve been let off with the pattern for as long as Pep has been here, and amazingly they cry arse about the game being bent.

Ah but you see the loss to Wolves resulted in City ‘fans’ weeping about referees now noticing their tactical fouls because of an agenda pursued by Gary Neville!

Offline Sons of pioneerS

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33699 on: October 11, 2019, 01:12:22 AM »
Ah but you see the loss to Wolves resulted in City ‘fans’ weeping about referees now noticing their tactical fouls because of an agenda pursued by Gary Neville!

Yes, because no one notices anything about the game unless Gary Neville points it out first.  ::)

ADFC 'fans' are a strange bunch.  :rollseyes
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33700 on: October 11, 2019, 07:00:29 AM »
Yes, because no one notices anything about the game unless Gary Neville points it out first.  ::)

ADFC 'fans' are a strange bunch.  :rollseyes

To be fair I had never previously noticed quite how shit Valencia were until Gary Neville took over.

Offline rob1966

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33701 on: October 11, 2019, 09:01:28 AM »
Yes, because no one notices anything about the game unless Gary Neville points it out first.  ::)

ADFC 'fans' are a strange bunch.  :rollseyes

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Offline rebel23

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33702 on: October 11, 2019, 10:20:53 AM »
It really is about time some serious investigative work was carried out on the "finances" of that club and the City Football group.

Must be a nightmare working for their payroll, sorting out 4 different salaries for each staff member and remembering which part of the group pays what and which sponsor they need to pay to pay the wages. (all hypothetical of course, they are whiter than white over there)

We matter, they don't. UEFA refer to us an European Royalty - they desperately want to be what we are, but know they never will be.

I saw this in the Echo. Dodgy as fuck:

Quote
By Liverpool's last financial accounts up the summer of 2018, Liverpool were pulling in a little over £150million through commercial activities.

City, by contrast, were earning more than £230million: a sizeable gap, and one that deserves explanation.

The crucial date here is 8 July 2011.

Until the 2010/11 season, Manchester City were very much in Liverpool's shadow on commercial terms, even with the new money flowing in from City's glitzy new shirt sponsor, Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways, that had begun in 2009.

Liverpool earned £77million that season; City, new sponsorship and all, just £58million.

But in July 2011, City, less than three years into their Middle Eastern revolution, announced "the largest deal of its kind in sport:" a 10-year, £400million arrangement with the airline to sponsor the City of Manchester Stadium.

Commercial earnings in Manchester almost doubled year-on-year, unheard of at such levels, and Liverpool have been forced to play catch up ever since.

By the end of the 2013/14 season, City were pulling in close to £170million from commercial revenues, while the Reds had only just broken £100million.

It seemed an unfair fight, but not one Liverpool have backed down from.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/eclipsing-man-city-chasing-manchester-17056352

Offline Yosser0_0

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33703 on: October 11, 2019, 10:27:25 AM »
They looked vulnerable vs. Wolves yes. They could've been down 0-2 within 30 minutes.

Norwich to a lesser extent...1st goal was a set piece, 3rd goal was a catastrophic error by Otamendi.

I suppose you could argue Everton as well. Coulda been 2-2 if it weren't for Ederson.

You might be right...I've never really bought that Fernandinho was the key man for them but him playing CB as opposed to CDM is certainly a downgrade.

I'm skeptical though. Two or three non-consecutive games does not a trend make.

As I alluded to in my earlier post, I think that the changes in personnel are having an effect and looking at some of those stats posted by Roy confirms my suspicion. For example Fernandinho's 'replacement' Rodri is making his 'tactical' fouls in deeper positions than Fernandinho suggesting to me that they are surrendering territory, he's also committing more fouls, is that because they are loosing control more often or is there a question mark about his mobility in terms of getting out of position and having to end up clattering someone. Changes to personnel and being out of position can be quite subtle, for example Otamendi being a couple of yards away from cutting down the angle for an offensive pass by the opposition or Mahrez failing to complete to pass due to him allowing an angle for interception - is his passing accuracy as good as others in the same position?
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Offline Agent99

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33704 on: October 11, 2019, 10:57:17 AM »
I saw this in the Echo. Dodgy as fuck:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/eclipsing-man-city-chasing-manchester-17056352
All above board mate. They don't foul tactically and the agenda against them is real. The league is set up for us to win.

Offline Mighty Zeus

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33705 on: October 11, 2019, 11:19:42 AM »
I saw this in the Echo. Dodgy as fuck:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/eclipsing-man-city-chasing-manchester-17056352

You win the Tour de France on a Vespa disguised as a bike and then get really angry with the journalists who want to talk about petrol.

Cuntbags.

Offline Kekuleyule y'all!

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33706 on: October 11, 2019, 11:19:44 AM »
https://twitter.com/mundialmag/status/1182582450297413632?s=21

Watch the light blue bar appear from nowhere in 07/08 and go into orbit.

Offline rob1966

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33707 on: October 11, 2019, 11:23:09 AM »
I saw this in the Echo. Dodgy as fuck:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/eclipsing-man-city-chasing-manchester-17056352

I remember laughing about it at the time at how blatantly they were cheating.

The World record deal at the time was in US Sports, either basketball or baseball and was in the region of £170 million. Nothing dodgy going on there...

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33708 on: October 11, 2019, 02:23:40 PM »
https://twitter.com/mundialmag/status/1182582450297413632?s=21

Watch the light blue bar appear from nowhere in 07/08 and go into orbit.

The shite blue bar made me laugh, shot up then back down, then up a bit then disappeared for years before making a swift reappearance at the end, insignificant c*nts ;D

Offline Zimagic

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33709 on: October 11, 2019, 04:22:03 PM »
The shite blue bar made me laugh, shot up then back down, then up a bit then disappeared for years before making a swift reappearance at the end, insignificant c*nts ;D

That red bar in the 90s & early 00s makes for pretty sobering reading too.....
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33710 on: October 11, 2019, 04:40:53 PM »
That red bar in the 90s & early 00s makes for pretty sobering reading too.....

Thought the same!
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33711 on: October 11, 2019, 04:59:00 PM »
Here's the latest on Man City and FFP.  Seems nothing is going to happen until the end of the current season.  The article is dated September 12th:

Quote
Man City may not discover possible Financial Fair Play punishment until end of the season

Manchester City may not discover if they will be punished for alleged breaches of Financial Fair Play regulations until the end of the season.

If found guilty of breaking UEFA’s financial rules, City could be slapped with a Champions League ban.

The Times claim the case could ‘drag on for months’ due to the complex legal issues.

City hit back at UEFA by going to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) to challenge the legitimacy of their investigation earlier this year.

UEFA have accused the reigning Premier League champions of inflating sponsorship deals after internal club emails were published by Football Leaks in German magazine Der Spiegel.

UEFA’s Club Financial Control Body (CFSB) will decide whether City should be punished if the club are found guilty of any wrongdoing.

CFCB investigator Yves Leterme is believed to be pushing for a Champions League ban.

City would be able to appeal any potential punishment through the CAS.

In May, the club strongly denied the allegations put against them.

A statement said: “The accusation of financial irregularities remains entirely false and the CFCB [investigatory chamber] referral ignores a comprehensive body of irrefutable evidence provided by Manchester City.”

https://talksport.com/football/600278/man-city-ffp-financial-fair-play-punishment/

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33712 on: October 11, 2019, 06:29:08 PM »
That red bar in the 90s & early 00s makes for pretty sobering reading too.....
Us then is Man UTD now, throwing good money after bad, no real recruitment policy other than signing players after one good season or a good international tournament, some gems (Berger) and some duds (Babb).
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33713 on: October 11, 2019, 07:02:19 PM »
Us then is Man UTD now, throwing good money after bad, no real recruitment policy other than signing players after one good season or a good international tournament, some gems (Berger) and some duds (Babb).

Also letting Anelka go and signing Diouf instead :butt

Less said about Diao the better

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33714 on: October 11, 2019, 07:18:50 PM »
Also letting Anelka go and signing Diouf instead :butt

Less said about Diao the better

Do you reckon he was worse than Fred?
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33715 on: October 11, 2019, 07:30:19 PM »
Do you reckon he was worse than Fred?

Diao is probably a better player than Fred today, and he hasn't played a game for 7 seasons, never mind when he played for Liverpool.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33716 on: October 11, 2019, 07:34:05 PM »
Also letting Anelka go and signing Diouf instead :butt

Less said about Diao the better

He did score an important one at Leeds. Sadly that title run evaporated and burst into flames that fateful November day in Middlesbrough, from which Houllier never recovered any steam whatsoever. 13 games without a win and then 60 points the year after. Sad times.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33717 on: October 13, 2019, 04:29:49 AM »
Reading some of these links y'ou folks have been posting from The Looney Bin site. There's some funny  stuff on there. Had a good laugh at their nicknames for Klopp (like Teeth and Mentadent). Even more hilarious, they're so fixated on us they can recite our December schedule off hand. That level of obsession takes something special.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33719 on: October 13, 2019, 03:24:26 PM »
One of those annoying injuries to keep him out for just long enough to be fine for the next PL game. So pesky little fake injuries.
I believe the average spend will go up £5 ahead and that’s being very conservative. So that’s £185k. Then you have a new 25k who will spend £10 a head that’s £250k. This is without the massively enhanced hospitality areas.