Author Topic: General Manchester City thread  (Read 2710821 times)

Offline Johns_Barn

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33640 on: October 8, 2019, 03:15:50 PM »
That [above] is drifting towards a kind of mental illness that gets some people sectioned. Honestly!! Snipers on the roof looking to take them out if they go and post a letter...etc. Do these people never engage in any serious introspection and take stock of themselves?

That forum sounds like it's populated by people using the 'computer room' in an institution.

 :lmao :lmao :lmao

Offline Yosser0_0

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33641 on: October 9, 2019, 12:58:14 PM »
Yeah.  They key to beating a team like City is being strong over several seasons.  You just have to try and match them blow for blow.  That's nigh on impossible - unless you have a coach like Klopp.

That said, we know they'll bounce back, and that we can take nothing for granted.  But like finishing second against Real Madrid, we bounced back the following year.  We can do that in the league as well because Klopp learns from his mistakes and doesn't look to spend his way out of trouble.  The psychology of our team is very different to City's.

I know what you are saying but I was talking to a young Liverpool fan at work during the summer and told him that Kompany would be a big miss for them and it shouldn't be under estimated, just look at the impact Van Dijk, as single player, has had for us. He dismissed it and thinks City could just spend their way out of the problem and recover, well maybe but we all know a high transfer fee does not always guarantee you've made a good signing. Even if the signings are sound, it takes varying degrees of time to bed in the new players and for the team and player to adjust to each other. There was an interesting piece of analysis by Keown on Sunday where he highlighted two of their players Mahrez and Otamendi I think it was, being only slightly out of position during a City move, resulting in Wolves being able to counter and play into massive gaps after a turnover. These sorts of patterns are practised relentlessly by the top teams meaning positions and passes almost become instinctive by the players. Liverpool have a settled side and haven't had to bed in many new players during the last eighteen months, these sorts of patterns of play have become second nature.

The other thing I don't get with that younger fan is his negativity that Liverpool cannot catch them up an it is inevitable that City will win the league. Perhaps it is because he's never seen Liverpool win it and the club has had a lot of false dawn's, but its quite clear to me that Klopp has created a special team, even compared to the great sides I've seen and he's also a proven winner as an underdog against much stronger clubs. So I also pointed out to him that Guardiola is at the point of having to build a new team - has he ever done that before? Has he ever built a team from scratch? Key players such as Kompany (gone), Aguero, D. Silva, Fernandinho, possibly Otamendi will need replacing in the near future - the spine of a team. It's doable as they have unlimited financial resources but difficult to keep continuity and there are likely to be some bumps in the road. Take that Laporte injury, they are now playing Fernandinho there and he'll do a good job but will be missed in midfield which suggests they don't have a ready made replacement in there.

I notice that referees seem to be on to them about their tactical fowling now and they received a few bookings for it on Sunday. I first came across this side of the game watching the Arsenal so called 'invincibles' side and when I pointed it out to people they thought it was ridiculous to criticise such a great footballing side and it is difficult to spot a side doing this when they dominate possession, thankfully this has been highlighted in City's game by Arteta in their documentary and other opposing managers. Finally we might see more referees picking up on it. I was reading this article about 'tactical fowling' and whilst I don't think they've used the correct stat for City - they should have used fouls per opposition passes, there was an interesting quote in the article.

One aspect to keep an eye on, though: Manchester City averaged 8.63 fouls a game last term, but with 27 fouls conceded after two games this season (only Sheffield United have more), that average is currently 13.5 per game, compared to Liverpool's 7.5.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49371002

This suggests to me that players are possibly finding themselves out of position, as discussed above, meaning that passes are miss placed and/or players are having to make increasingly more desperate tackles/fouls. Opposition teams are probably adjusting tactics too, e.g. to stop that daft pull back goal that they keep scoring every week. Either way that stat points to a problem there.

I said last season that beating City to the title will come down to the head-to-heads against them rather than goal difference and that is now the first tie breaker for the league. For me the important thing is not to get beat in those games, last season we didn't play that well at home and were lucky that they missed the penalty but we were unlucky that Fernandinho didn't get sent off. At the Emptihad we played quite well and were again unlucky with the Kompany fowl and offside goal but in reality it could have gone either way. I wonder whether we should have tried to stick at 1-1, be interesting to see if Klopp has us playing cagey or going all out attack like we seem to still do in the Champions league.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1262217   
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33642 on: October 9, 2019, 01:33:00 PM »
Anyone any idea why the scouting story surfaced 6yrs after the event?

Some of them reckon they only discovered the hacking due to the Der Spiegel stuff and the out of court, hush hush money was so there was no prying by the authorities.

No idea if the dates tally or why its suddenly come out or even why they think it should be investigated after a settlement was agreed other than to stop us in our tracks.

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Sure they claim that the Der Spiegel stuff is a load of nonsense when it is in regards to their financial doping. Can't have it both ways.

Offline royhendo

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33643 on: October 9, 2019, 01:45:01 PM »
One aspect to keep an eye on, though: Manchester City averaged 8.63 fouls a game last term, but with 27 fouls conceded after two games this season (only Sheffield United have more), that average is currently 13.5 per game, compared to Liverpool's 7.5.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49371002

This suggests to me that players are possibly finding themselves out of position, as discussed above, meaning that passes are miss placed and/or players are having to make increasingly more desperate tackles/fouls. Opposition teams are probably adjusting tactics too, e.g. to stop that daft pull back goal that they keep scoring every week. Either way that stat points to a problem there.

I said last season that beating City to the title will come down to the head-to-heads against them rather than goal difference and that is now the first tie breaker for the league. For me the important thing is not to get beat in those games, last season we didn't play that well at home and were lucky that they missed the penalty but we were unlucky that Fernandinho didn't get sent off. At the Emptihad we played quite well and were again unlucky with the Kompany fowl and offside goal but in reality it could have gone either way. I wonder whether we should have tried to stick at 1-1, be interesting to see if Klopp has us playing cagey or going all out attack like we seem to still do in the Champions league.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1262217

Pep's football is founded on effective tactical fouling (and ideally the ability to do that without play even being stopped). Fernandinho and Busquets and Mascherano have been masters of that art for his sides, but when they're not in the right spot on the park (like when they're ageing or filling in for an injured centre half with a diddy alongside them), and when people like Gary Neville start to draw attention to what they've been doing in that area when they've otherwise turned a blind eye (Fernandinho's elbow on Kane in the CL Q/F last year type stuff), then their foundation gets shaky.

I'm looking forward to this statsbomb article on their XG per chance conceded this season.

Offline royhendo

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33644 on: October 9, 2019, 01:46:18 PM »
Aaaaah, right on cue.
https://statsbomb.com/2019/10/whats-up-with-manchester-city/

(Quite chuffed that the stats say what I just said just then.)
« Last Edit: October 9, 2019, 02:02:37 PM by royhendo »

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33645 on: October 9, 2019, 02:42:01 PM »
Silva has been given an extension until 21st October to respond to the FA charge.

Offline Classycara

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33646 on: October 9, 2019, 02:45:40 PM »
Silva has been given an extension until 21st October to respond to the FA charge.

What's the extension for? Was the original deadline for posting a video response online?

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33647 on: October 9, 2019, 02:52:31 PM »
I said last season that beating City to the title will come down to the head-to-heads against them rather than goal difference and that is now the first tie breaker for the league. For me the important thing is not to get beat in those games, last season we didn't play that well at home and were lucky that they missed the penalty but we were unlucky that Fernandinho didn't get sent off. At the Emptihad we played quite well and were again unlucky with the Kompany fowl and offside goal but in reality it could have gone either way. I wonder whether we should have tried to stick at 1-1, be interesting to see if Klopp has us playing cagey or going all out attack like we seem to still do in the Champions league.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1262217   

It's actually not, it's the last tie breaker. They've just phrased it terribly in that article

"A very minor change - and one that has never been needed - sees the Premier League factor in head-to-head results to separate teams level on points, goal difference and goals scored."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49254099

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33648 on: October 9, 2019, 02:55:00 PM »
"tactical fowling" :D

Is this like a sparrow that knows to poke the eyes of its predator and then runs away?

(great post by Yosser overall)

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33649 on: October 9, 2019, 02:55:27 PM »
What's the extension for? Was the original deadline for posting a video response online?

He possibly got an extension due to being away on international duty.

City come to Anfield 4 games after 21st October. If they find him guilty there's a very good chance he misses that game.

Offline Classycara

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33650 on: October 9, 2019, 02:56:44 PM »
He possibly got an extension due to being away on international duty.

City come to Anfield 4 games after 21st October. If they find him guilty there's a very good chance he misses that game.

In that case my money would be on being found guilty and getting the six game standard ban, with three games suspended ;)

Offline Red Berry

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33651 on: October 9, 2019, 03:03:26 PM »
Pep seems to play cagey against us.  Depending on where both clubs are at when they meet, that might not be a realistic option for him this time around, especially at home.  So, would it be okay for Liverpool to sit back, let them blow themselves out, and look to hit them on the break?

If they're lunging in with desperate fouls I wouldn't want to see our boys get injured needlessly, but you can't let them play keep ball either.  It's not like allowing Spurs to win the possession game in the CL final - City might actually manage to do something with it if we let them have it.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33652 on: October 9, 2019, 03:45:29 PM »
He possibly got an extension due to being away on international duty.

City come to Anfield 4 games after 21st October. If they find him guilty there's a very good chance he misses that game.

More likely so they have more time to come to a suitable financial package to let him off with it.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33653 on: October 9, 2019, 04:25:18 PM »
Silva has been given an extension until 21st October to respond to the FA charge.

He's had a week.  How long does it take to write back and say "What? Me, guv?" or "It's a fair cop"?

Offline Crimson

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33654 on: October 9, 2019, 04:25:42 PM »
Pep seems to play cagey against us.  Depending on where both clubs are at when they meet, that might not be a realistic option for him this time around, especially at home.  So, would it be okay for Liverpool to sit back, let them blow themselves out, and look to hit them on the break?

If they're lunging in with desperate fouls I wouldn't want to see our boys get injured needlessly, but you can't let them play keep ball either.  It's not like allowing Spurs to win the possession game in the CL final - City might actually manage to do something with it if we let them have it.

Attack is the best form of defence against City. Not saying all-out attack, but they have too many options in their attack that we can afford to sit back. Let them worry about their less than ideal backline coming under pressure.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33655 on: October 9, 2019, 04:25:44 PM »
"tactical fowling" :D

Is this like a sparrow that knows to poke the eyes of its predator and then runs away?

(great post by Yosser overall)

Would think it would fly away... What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen sparrow?
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Offline Sharado

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33656 on: October 9, 2019, 04:33:11 PM »
Pep seems to play cagey against us.  Depending on where both clubs are at when they meet, that might not be a realistic option for him this time around, especially at home.  So, would it be okay for Liverpool to sit back, let them blow themselves out, and look to hit them on the break?

If they're lunging in with desperate fouls I wouldn't want to see our boys get injured needlessly, but you can't let them play keep ball either.  It's not like allowing Spurs to win the possession game in the CL final - City might actually manage to do something with it if we let them have it.

Sit back when we can be putting Otamendi and Fernandinho against our front 3? Not for me clive.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33657 on: October 9, 2019, 06:18:03 PM »
Apparently Man City tried this fan identification scheme but couldn't find any fans.

Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33658 on: October 9, 2019, 07:46:45 PM »
Aaaaah, right on cue.
https://statsbomb.com/2019/10/whats-up-with-manchester-city/

(Quite chuffed that the stats say what I just said just then.)

I think for the most part, City are City and they will still clock 90+ points without breaking much of a sweat. The xG/shot stat is almost meaningless at this stage of the season. Way too small of a sample.

I will say though that even though their attack is still purring, at some point they are going to miss Sane. He just brings a dynamic dimension that no one apart from possibly Sterling can give them.

Also, like the article says, Gundagon is giving them nothing. I've always felt less threatened by City with him in the lineup. It they keep him in the double pivot and LaPorte doesn't come back any time soon, then I might entertain the notion they will take a real step back.


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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33659 on: October 9, 2019, 07:53:30 PM »
They basically don't respond well to adversity if they have a setback. Most of the time they score a couple of early goals and put games to bed. If they go behind though, it's very rare they come back to win. I bet it's hardly happened at all under Pep, especially in the past two seasons.

Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33660 on: October 9, 2019, 08:01:16 PM »
They basically don't respond well to adversity if they have a setback. Most of the time they score a couple of early goals and put games to bed. If they go behind though, it's very rare they come back to win. I bet it's hardly happened at all under Pep, especially in the past two seasons.

Well, they did respond to going 7 points down at New Years by winning all but one match the rest of the season.

I do agree that they don't seem to have the dramatic comebacks that United, for example, frequently pulled off in the Ferguson days. Then again they so rarely fall behind.

In any case, I doubt their mentality will be their downfall. 198 points in two seasons suggests their mentality and commitment to consistent performance is phenomenal.

Offline royhendo

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33661 on: October 9, 2019, 08:10:51 PM »
The xG/shot stat is almost meaningless at this stage of the season. Way too small of a sample.

Apart from in the Norwich and Wolves games you might say.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33662 on: October 9, 2019, 08:16:35 PM »
Apparently Man City tried this fan identification scheme but couldn't find any fans.
Pity they didn't try the hateful gobshite identification scheme, they'd have been more successful.
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Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33663 on: October 9, 2019, 09:28:56 PM »
Apart from in the Norwich and Wolves games you might say.

When you concede a crazy low number of shots, the variance on your xG/shot ratio is going to be extremely high. We have 3 seasons of data on Pep's City, and all of the data says the defence is very very good (and I think a big reason is their incredible possession advantage; you can't score if you don't have the ball and that won't change even if they are playing sub-par defenders)   

Perhaps the loss of Kompany and LaPorte (and Stones) will change that, but I very much doubt it.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33664 on: October 9, 2019, 09:46:50 PM »
When you concede a crazy low number of shots, the variance on your xG/shot ratio is going to be extremely high. We have 3 seasons of data on Pep's City, and all of the data says the defence is very very good (and I think a big reason is their incredible possession advantage; you can't score if you don't have the ball and that won't change even if they are playing sub-par defenders)   

Perhaps the loss of Kompany and LaPorte (and Stones) will change that, but I very much doubt it.

Right now it shows that it is affecting them. Particularly because Rodri isn't Fernandinho and Fernandinho looks out of his depth playing as a CB. They have looked vulnerable in most of their games more so than they have ever before.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33665 on: October 9, 2019, 09:59:50 PM »
When you concede a crazy low number of shots, the variance on your xG/shot ratio is going to be extremely high. We have 3 seasons of data on Pep's City, and all of the data says the defence is very very good (and I think a big reason is their incredible possession advantage; you can't score if you don't have the ball and that won't change even if they are playing sub-par defenders)   

Perhaps the loss of Kompany and LaPorte (and Stones) will change that, but I very much doubt it.

Sorry but I completely disagree, when the players in the setup are moved around out of position and they are therefore worse. It’s different data, and all the possession in the world won’t make up for them being less equipped in defensive situations. Those couple of games may amount to a relative blip, but I very much doubt it, particularly when other teams have visibly seen the weaknesses and the players confidence will be lower.

Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33666 on: October 9, 2019, 10:03:52 PM »
Right now it shows that it is affecting them. Particularly because Rodri isn't Fernandinho and Fernandinho looks out of his depth playing as a CB. They have looked vulnerable in most of their games more so than they have ever before.

They looked vulnerable vs. Wolves yes. They could've been down 0-2 within 30 minutes.

Norwich to a lesser extent...1st goal was a set piece, 3rd goal was a catastrophic error by Otamendi.

I suppose you could argue Everton as well. Coulda been 2-2 if it weren't for Ederson.

You might be right...I've never really bought that Fernandinho was the key man for them but him playing CB as opposed to CDM is certainly a downgrade.

I'm skeptical though. Two or three non-consecutive games does not a trend make.



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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33667 on: October 10, 2019, 12:22:16 AM »
They looked vulnerable vs. Wolves yes. They could've been down 0-2 within 30 minutes.

Norwich to a lesser extent...1st goal was a set piece, 3rd goal was a catastrophic error by Otamendi.

I suppose you could argue Everton as well. Coulda been 2-2 if it weren't for Ederson.

You might be right...I've never really bought that Fernandinho was the key man for them but him playing CB as opposed to CDM is certainly a downgrade.

I'm skeptical though. Two or three non-consecutive games does not a trend make.

No you are right it doesn't make a trend, but for the time being it's an obvious problem for them for the time being. Anyside who is capable of breaking quickly and getting at them in transition can hurt them if they take their chances. A back four of Walker Ottamendi Fernandinho and Zinchenko is asking for trouble.

They have enough attacking talent to win most matches but in the matches where the opposition can stay compact and break quickly [they have Palace coming up for instance] then they may find it frustrating like they have so far.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33668 on: October 10, 2019, 02:41:08 PM »
I did it, I had a look on BlueLoon regarding the "hacked scouting system." One lad reckons we should be demoted to the Championship another wants it investigating by plod. I don't think they understand they accepted a payment and that's it's been dealt with civil. Just because we're a much better team doesn't mean they can give us the payment back and start pointing fingers shouting Arrrrrr hoping a grown up is listening
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33669 on: October 10, 2019, 03:01:09 PM »


I do agree that they don't seem to have the dramatic comebacks that United, for example, frequently pulled off in the Ferguson days. Then again they so rarely fall behind.


That's because they haven't got anyone who can really control the game in the way that Webb could.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33670 on: October 10, 2019, 03:37:18 PM »
I did it, I had a look on BlueLoon regarding the "hacked scouting system." One lad reckons we should be demoted to the Championship another wants it investigating by plod. I don't think they understand they accepted a payment and that's it's been dealt with civil. Just because we're a much better team doesn't mean they can give us the payment back and start pointing fingers shouting Arrrrrr hoping a grown up is listening

It wasn't even hacking, they didn't bother changing or deleting passwords

Hope this Porto fella still has a login for their system ;D

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33671 on: October 10, 2019, 03:41:31 PM »
I did it, I had a look on BlueLoon regarding the "hacked scouting system." One lad reckons we should be demoted to the Championship another wants it investigating by plod.

Look, we ran them close last year and have started well this season. Aside from a couple of exceptional seasons, generally spaced about 5-years apart, when we also fell short, we have not won much domestically. In fact, it's been decades since we've won more than a cup and even those have been pretty rare for a club of our historical stature.

All the theories, hand wringing, complaining, moaning and general head-falling-off is based on, well, pretty much nothing that says we'll actually win this year. We have a great recent history of narrowly missing out. Against them. Twice. We're the only club ever to be top at Christmas and not win it, a feat we managed 3 times!!

As a fan of Liverpool, I want us to win the league, I've been waiting since I was a young lad to see it again. I hope it's this year. Maybe it will be, maybe not, we'll see next May.

But between Man U, Man City, Spurs & Everton, you'd swear that we'd already won the bloody thing for the past 5 seasons and are sauntering to this years' again with our hands in our pockets, easy as you like. I just don't get where they go from here in terms of pure fume. The hatred, angst & bile is already quite amazing and we're still in October!! For a club that's famously managed not to make it over the line so many times, what's going to happen if we do? Does the world end or something? Calm down, lads, calm down! We're statistically more likely to screw it up again with margins as fine as they are, stop freaking out.

We're living in their heads. I just don't get that. I spend zero time thinking about those clubs if we're not playing them next and even then.... not much really.

It's all really quite bizarre to watch.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33672 on: October 10, 2019, 04:32:37 PM »
I did it, I had a look on BlueLoon regarding the "hacked scouting system." One lad reckons we should be demoted to the Championship another wants it investigating by plod. I don't think they understand they accepted a payment and that's it's been dealt with civil. Just because we're a much better team doesn't mean they can give us the payment back and start pointing fingers shouting Arrrrrr hoping a grown up is listening

It really is about time some serious investigative work was carried out on the "finances" of that club and the City Football group.

Must be a nightmare working for their payroll, sorting out 4 different salaries for each staff member and remembering which part of the group pays what and which sponsor they need to pay to pay the wages. (all hypothetical of course, they are whiter than white over there)

Look, we ran them close last year and have started well this season. Aside from a couple of exceptional seasons, generally spaced about 5-years apart, when we also fell short, we have not won much domestically. In fact, it's been decades since we've won more than a cup and even those have been pretty rare for a club of our historical stature.

All the theories, hand wringing, complaining, moaning and general head-falling-off is based on, well, pretty much nothing that says we'll actually win this year. We have a great recent history of narrowly missing out. Against them. Twice. We're the only club ever to be top at Christmas and not win it, a feat we managed 3 times!!

As a fan of Liverpool, I want us to win the league, I've been waiting since I was a young lad to see it again. I hope it's this year. Maybe it will be, maybe not, we'll see next May.

But between Man U, Man City, Spurs & Everton, you'd swear that we'd already won the bloody thing for the past 5 seasons and are sauntering to this years' again with our hands in our pockets, easy as you like. I just don't get where they go from here in terms of pure fume. The hatred, angst & bile is already quite amazing and we're still in October!! For a club that's famously managed not to make it over the line so many times, what's going to happen if we do? Does the world end or something? Calm down, lads, calm down! We're statistically more likely to screw it up again with margins as fine as they are, stop freaking out.

We're living in their heads. I just don't get that. I spend zero time thinking about those clubs if we're not playing them next and even then.... not much really.

It's all really quite bizarre to watch.


We matter, they don't. UEFA refer to us an European Royalty - they desperately want to be what we are, but know they never will be.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 04:34:14 PM by rob1966 »

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33673 on: October 10, 2019, 05:13:07 PM »
Haha, Pep had to train him to be more snide. Having grown up under Simeone. Amazing

:lmao when you put it like that...
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Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33674 on: October 10, 2019, 05:14:52 PM »
I'm sure Pip will rectify their problems with another £200m in January.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33675 on: October 10, 2019, 06:52:13 PM »
Haha, Pep had to train him to be more snide. Having grown up under Simeone. Amazing

Teaching yer nan to suck eggs sprung to mind

Offline royhendo

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33676 on: October 10, 2019, 06:53:11 PM »
I'm skeptical though. Two or three non-consecutive games does not a trend make.

That's true from a retrospective statistical proof point of view, but from an eye test point of view and from the common sense that relates to what you'd expect to happen when their keeper to centre halves to holding midfield shield unit gets compromised, the same thing happens that always happens - they find their ability to make tactical fouls goes to pot.

Hey presto there's an article saying Rodri's being coached on how to do it properly. They'll likely fix it, but they'll be vulnerable to decent quick combinations through their press up the park followed by decent direct play until they do, and the stats will retrospectively illustrate what's happened.

Offline royhendo

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33677 on: October 10, 2019, 07:00:04 PM »
Would maybe also add that tactical fouling is an art form that Fernandinho has mastered beautifully. The problem is poor refereeing - if a player fouls consistently he’s supposed to be cautioned for it, but they’ve been let off with the pattern for as long as Pep has been here, and amazingly they cry arse about the game being bent.

Offline Bob Sacamano

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33678 on: October 10, 2019, 09:10:36 PM »
That's true from a retrospective statistical proof point of view, but from an eye test point of view and from the common sense that relates to what you'd expect to happen when their keeper to centre halves to holding midfield shield unit gets compromised, the same thing happens that always happens - they find their ability to make tactical fouls goes to pot.

Hey presto there's an article saying Rodri's being coached on how to do it properly. They'll likely fix it, but they'll be vulnerable to decent quick combinations through their press up the park followed by decent direct play until they do, and the stats will retrospectively illustrate what's happened.
Would maybe also add that tactical fouling is an art form that Fernandinho has mastered beautifully. The problem is poor refereeing - if a player fouls consistently he’s supposed to be cautioned for it, but they’ve been let off with the pattern for as long as Pep has been here, and amazingly they cry arse about the game being bent.

I agree that the problem is more refereeing than City; it is the ref's responsibility to book for blatant tactical fouls. I don't view it as "cheating" in the way play-acting or simulation is because their is no deliberate attempt to deceive the referee. They are being coached according to how the rules are being enforced, which is smart. We should be doing more of it ourselves (Fabinho is already well-versed in the dark arts)

I also agree that their recent blip makes sense logically, even if there isn't enough of a sample to reach definitive conclusions. But I guess I've become accustomed to Pep's machine-like consistency. Every blip he's ever had with Barcelona, Bayern, and City leads to the inevitable "he's been found out" or "he's cracking up" or "the pressure is getting to him" comments and all he does is keep racking up 90 + point seasons. It's possible that, much like his first season with City, he simply doesn't have the personnel in defense to effectively execute his system. But there are so few teams that can actually get the ball off them and keep their composure in possession that I'm not sure it's going to matter much until they get to later rounds of the Champions League. And by then they may be at full strength.

Offline mattD

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #33679 on: October 11, 2019, 12:49:46 AM »
Would maybe also add that tactical fouling is an art form that Fernandinho has mastered beautifully. The problem is poor refereeing - if a player fouls consistently he’s supposed to be cautioned for it, but they’ve been let off with the pattern for as long as Pep has been here, and amazingly they cry arse about the game being bent.

Ah but you see the loss to Wolves resulted in City ‘fans’ weeping about referees now noticing their tactical fouls because of an agenda pursued by Gary Neville!