Author Topic: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse  (Read 86185 times)

Offline Giono

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #320 on: January 25, 2019, 12:13:22 pm »
Terrible things are done every day in the name of everything you can imagine. You'd have to eradicate humanity to stop anything bad from being done by organizations with power and influence. All religions, most countries, sports, Amazon, Facebook... the list is endless.

And if not, where do you draw the line?

The internet allows lots of profitable abuse and those who control it deny it while stuffing their pockets. Surely it has to be the first to go?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 12:15:05 pm by Giono »
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #321 on: January 25, 2019, 01:45:02 pm »
The internet allows lots of profitable abuse and those who control it deny it while stuffing their pockets. Surely it has to be the first to go?


Well this took a weird turn. In your own hypothetical ideal word, you're thinking that abuse of personal data is a first priority ahead of systematic sexual abuse and cover ups by the catholic church?

You and I have different priorities it seems!

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #322 on: January 25, 2019, 02:27:48 pm »
Well this took a weird turn. In your own hypothetical ideal word, you're thinking that abuse of personal data is a first priority ahead of systematic sexual abuse and cover ups by the catholic church?

You and I have different priorities it seems!

I think the internet abuses he talks about are the depictions of child abuse for profit.

Offline Mimi

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #323 on: January 25, 2019, 02:40:35 pm »
Are they ?   Nothing religious about them ? Are they not largely Christian movements to which some white supremacists have attached themselves to recently in an attempt to gain credibility ?

Would Mother Teresa not have been in full approval of these movements based on her religious beliefs rather than a desire to have whiteness rule ?

I only have experience with the anti-abortion movement in North America, and it's a white supremacist movement here. Why else wear MAGA hats to a March for Life? I bet the Covington kids would have jeered Mother Theresa too.

https://pictorial.jezebel.com/the-deep-ties-between-the-catholic-anti-abortion-moveme-1831950706

I also refuse to let 2 issues define my faith as it seems to have done for the conservative Catholics. I'm a Catholic but so is Pat Buchanan apparently.

In my corner of the world we're going to lose publicly funded Catholic education because morons at the upper echelons are making teachers sign "Catholicity" agreements, which is a poorly disguised attempt at rooting out LGBQT teachers.

I don't think the Catholic Church needs to be brought down by anybody from the outside. There is a gargantuan struggle going on for the soul of the Catholic Church from within.

 There is a lot of strength, beauty and succour within the religion, which gets distorted into ugliness by its practitioners.
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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #324 on: January 25, 2019, 02:56:44 pm »
I bet the Covington kids would have jeered Mother Theresa too.

Poor example. She was a nasty piece of work.

Offline electricghost

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #325 on: January 25, 2019, 03:38:47 pm »
I only have experience with the anti-abortion movement in North America, and it's a white supremacist movement here. Why else wear MAGA hats to a March for Life?

To show their support for Trump, which many black people do by wearing the very same hat. Are they white supremacists too ?

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I bet the Covington kids would have jeered Mother Theresa too.

Based on what ?

Quote
https://pictorial.jezebel.com/the-deep-ties-between-the-catholic-anti-abortion-moveme-1831950706

Nothing in that article, even if accepted as an accurate portrayal of the situation counters what I said when I stated this is a religious movement first and foremost. I understand you don't agree as a Catholic with these movements, but they are first and foremost movements which come directly from the religion that you share with them, and simply brushing them off as having some primary motive other than that fundamental religious motivation is dishonest.
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I also refuse to let 2 issues define my faith as it seems to have done for the conservative Catholics. I'm a Catholic but so is Pat Buchanan apparently.
Exactly, and so are the Covington kids.
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In my corner of the world we're going to lose publicly funded Catholic education because morons at the upper echelons are making teachers sign "Catholicity" agreements, which is a poorly disguised attempt at rooting out LGBQT teachers.

Something which comes directly from Catholic dogma. It is great that you don't agree with this, but you are further away from church teaching than they are on this.
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I don't think the Catholic Church needs to be brought down by anybody from the outside. There is a gargantuan struggle going on for the soul of the Catholic Church from within.

I see little evidence of this great struggle as every time the Pope suggests something like progress he quickly gets slapped down by those around around him who know what the Catechism and dogma says. It is unchanging, always stuck in the past.
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There is a lot of strength, beauty and succour within the religion, which gets distorted into ugliness by its practitioners.


There is no beauty in the institution of the church apart from the vast treasures they have accumulated over centuries by taking advantage of the persecuted and the gullible, and which they could give away tomorrow to fund endless humanitarian projects. It doesn't get distorted apart from those good people like yourself who find your own beliefs start to contradict the teachings of the church over centuries.  It is not the church that is good, it is the many people like yourself that are good that call themselves members.
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Offline Something Worse

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #326 on: January 25, 2019, 03:40:32 pm »
The point wasn't "other people do bad things so leave the church alone", the point is "you can't shut down an entire organization because of the actions of a few rotten members". I suppose I shouldn't be surprised everyone ignored the BBC example to accuse me of whataboutery and yet...

For what it's worth I think that's a bit too far off (though I'm all for a more secular world!) - my simpler point of view is "the catholic church is full of paedophiles and should be prosecuted in the manner most other institutions/citizens/gangs/broadcasters/charities would".

Exactly. You dig into it and prosecute as many as you can. That's the logical and realistic approach.

The main issue I had was using sexual assault as an insult I guess, and then using that as an excuse to go after the church.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #327 on: January 25, 2019, 04:24:30 pm »
Poor example. She was a nasty piece of work.

Utter scum/killer

Offline Giono

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #328 on: January 25, 2019, 04:41:11 pm »
Well this took a weird turn. In your own hypothetical ideal word, you're thinking that abuse of personal data is a first priority ahead of systematic sexual abuse and cover ups by the catholic church?

You and I have different priorities it seems!

It's not just the Catholic church. It's everywhere. The priority should be everywhere. If the Catholic church disapears and all their gold is sold off, will all children in the world be safe? Making children safe should be a priority everywhere. If somebody, anybody kñows about child abuse and doesn't report it they should be given lengthy jail time. Catholics, Protestants, atheists, the royal family...anybody.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #329 on: January 25, 2019, 04:43:16 pm »
I think the internet abuses he talks about are the depictions of child abuse for profit.

Yes. Thank you.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #330 on: February 6, 2019, 12:35:05 am »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47134033
Quote
He admitted that priests and bishops had abused nuns, but said the Church was aware of the issue and "working on it".

"It's a path that we've been on," he said.

"Pope Benedict had the courage to dissolve a female congregation which was at a certain level, because this slavery of women had entered it - slavery, even to the point of sexual slavery - on the part of clerics or the founder."
So ruddy blood brave, dissolving the survivors jobs and letting the rapist priests go untouched. Pair of great lads these two Popes. And presenting it to desperately appeal to idiots that they're doing something about it and taking a stand. To be fair they've carried the torch brilliantly, continuing the work of predecessors systematically covering up abuse and then begging to be praised for it.
Quote
Pope Francis said sexual abuse of nuns was an ongoing problem but happened largely in "certain congregations, predominantly new ones".
Ah, sound. Phew.

Genuine question, do Catholics really believe these rape-appeasers are infallible?

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #331 on: February 6, 2019, 08:14:51 am »
Sex slaves?

I mean.  Who keeps sex slaves? This is so ducked up it’s untrue.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #332 on: February 10, 2019, 11:33:43 am »
Are they ?   Nothing religious about them ? Are they not largely Christian movements to which some white supremacists have attached themselves to recently in an attempt to gain credibility ?

Would Mother Teresa not have been in full approval of these movements based on her religious beliefs rather than a desire to have whiteness rule ?
If you must resort to 'appeal to authority' in your argument, at least do not use Mother Teresa as your moral compass. She was a racist, a sadist, an appeaser of despots, a sociopath. A monster of the highest order.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #333 on: February 10, 2019, 11:38:28 am »
So if you went into your local cop shop to complain about having been robbed, would "lots of people get robbed" be an acceptable response?
Yep. A really shitty argument for inaction.
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Offline electricghost

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #334 on: February 10, 2019, 01:26:30 pm »
If you must resort to 'appeal to authority' in your argument, at least do not use Mother Teresa as your moral compass. She was a racist, a sadist, an appeaser of despots, a sociopath. A monster of the highest order.

You have completely misunderstood my position. I agree totally with your assessment of MT. And It wasn't an appeal to authority, I was pointing out that the poster I was responding to was claiming it was not a Catholic movement, so I used MT , a prominent figure in that movement, as an example of someone who totally agreed with the principle of pro life and could well have been stood arm in arm with these kids on that march.  An appeal to authority is a fallacy when it is used to say something is correct because someone said so, which is not my position at all, I think MT is wrong in her position.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #335 on: February 10, 2019, 01:36:41 pm »
You have completely misunderstood my position. I agree totally with your assessment of MT. And It wasn't an appeal to authority, I was pointing out that the poster I was responding to was claiming it was not a Catholic movement, so I used MT , a prominent figure in that movement, as an example of someone who totally agreed with the principle of pro life and could well have been stood arm in arm with these kids on that march.  An appeal to authority is a fallacy when it is used to say something is correct because someone said so, which is not my position at all, I think MT is wrong in her position.
I've reread your post - I am still not sure what you meant. Though, of course, I take your protestations and reasurrances at face value. I am glad to learn that I misunderstood your position. Mother Teersa is still widely believed to be someone of high moral rectitude. Astonishing, really.
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Offline electricghost

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #336 on: February 10, 2019, 01:49:07 pm »
I've reread your post - I am still not sure what you meant. Though, of course, I take your protestations and reasurrances at face value. I am glad to learn that I misunderstood your position. Mother Teersa is still widely believed to be someone of high moral rectitude. Astonishing, really.


I completely agree, anyone who embraces suffering as she did should be right at the bottom of the list of the morally virtuous .
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #337 on: February 19, 2019, 12:44:17 pm »
French judge refuses to block Catholic sex scandal movie

PARIS (AP) — A French judge refused Monday to block the release this week in French cinemas of a movie based on a Catholic sex scandal.

French director Francois Ozon’s film “Grace a Dieu” (“By the Grace of God”) won the Berlin Film Festival’s jury grand prize on Saturday. The movie, which opens Wednesday, portrays French priest Bernard Preynat, who has been accused of molesting dozens of boys during the 1980s and ’90s.

Preynat’s lawyers said the picture depicted allegations against their client as facts and should have been blocked because it does not respect the presumption of innocence. Preynat has been handed preliminary charges of sexual assaults on minors and prosecutors are determining whether he will be brought to trial.

Preynat has confessed to abusing Boy Scouts and his victims say church hierarchy covered up for him for years, allowing him to work with children right up until his 2015 retirement.

His lawyer, Emmanuel Mercinier, told The Associated Press the judge ruled Monday that messages in the film noting that people are presumed innocent until proven guilty were enough to guarantee Preynat’s rights.

“I’m bitterly ruing this decision. To depict a man as guilty for two hours, while he has not been convicted, infringes the presumption of innocence. That can’t obviously be erased by writing the opposite for two seconds,” Mercinier said.

Preynat could go on trial in for sexual violence against multiple children. So far, 13 victims are involved in that case, but he is accused of having abused as many as 70 children. Preynat hasn’t publicly spoken about the allegations but he has written letters to some families confessing to abuse.

The victims have accused Cardinal Philippe Barbarin, who became archbishop of Lyon in 2002, of having allowed Preynat to continue serving as a priest and having contact with children despite years of rumors about his actions.

Barbarin, 68, went on trial last month and testified that he was unjustly accused. Because of lack of proof, or the statute of limitations that has had expired on charges of failing to help a person in danger, even the prosecutor has argued against convicting him and other church officials, saying there were no grounds to prove legal wrongdoing. A verdict is expected on March 7.

Ozon’s movie title comes from a press conference in Lourdes in 2016 when Barbarin, asked about the abuses by Preynat, said “most of the facts, by the grace of God, fell outside the statute of limitations.”

__________________________________________________________________________________

c*nts.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #338 on: February 19, 2019, 04:05:55 pm »
That’s very interesting...

They have it stitched up. 

Happily the truth will out.  What possible reason could these people have to be lying?
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #339 on: February 19, 2019, 04:08:39 pm »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47134033So ruddy blood brave, dissolving the survivors jobs and letting the rapist priests go untouched. Pair of great lads these two Popes. And presenting it to desperately appeal to idiots that they're doing something about it and taking a stand. To be fair they've carried the torch brilliantly, continuing the work of predecessors systematically covering up abuse and then begging to be praised for it.Ah, sound. Phew.

Genuine question, do Catholics really believe these rape-appeasers are infallible?

I'm not a Catholic anymore but was raised one and can only talk from first or second hand experience but the wool has well and truly been lifted from the eyes of people I know and it'll never be pulled over again. Parents refuse to go to mass now and they're not the only ones. It's an empire built on sand in this country currently and is dying a slow and painful death

Yes people still have a sense of faith but all these revelations have made them turn their back on the church and have their own personal connection in their own words.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #340 on: February 23, 2019, 09:56:45 am »
I've lived in France and consider it a relatively secular country compared to other countries I've been to. I'm so surprised that Ozon had to hide the making of his film about the sexual abuse cover up in Lyon.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/23/film-about-clerical-child-abuse-opens-in-french-cinemas
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #341 on: February 26, 2019, 02:01:18 am »
3rd in the church takes a tumble. Wonder how Francis and his meeting is going at the Vatican with this blowing up right now?

Cardinal George Pell found guilty of child sex abuse
By Adam Cooper

Cardinal George Pell has been found guilty and is set to be jailed for child sexual abuse in the most sensational verdict since the Catholic church became engulfed in worldwide abuse scandals.

Pell, who was Vatican treasurer, close to the Pope and one of the most senior Catholic figures in the world to be charged with child sex offences, has been found guilty of orally raping one choirboy and molesting another in Melbourne’s St Patrick’s Cathedral 22 years ago.

Australian media has been unable to report the guilty verdict until now, due to a suppression order.

The cardinal was Archbishop of Melbourne when he abused the two 13-year-old boys and was managing the church’s response to widespread child abuse by priests through the “Melbourne Response”, which he designed.
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He was found guilty in a retrial last December, with the verdict sending shockwaves through the Vatican and around the world. A jury in an earlier trial was discharged, in September, when it was unable to reach a verdict. His legal team will appeal against the conviction.

County Court chief judge Peter Kidd has now revoked the suppression order that prevented media reporting the results of the trial and retrial.

Pell emerged from the court building about 11.30am to a huge media pack. He was jeered and abused by some people and flanked by police officers.

"You're an absolute animal," one man shouted at him as police and protective services officers ushered the cardinal to a waiting car.

"Burn in hell, Pell. Burn in hell, Pell."

Pell was stripped of his position as the Vatican’s chief financial officer and expelled from Pope Francis’ inner circle of trusted cardinals known as the Group of Nine, or C-9, shortly after the verdict, but due to the suppression order the world’s media was forced to pretend Pell, 77, stepped down due to his age.

On December 11, when Pell was found guilty of five charges including sexual penetration of a child under 16 – a charge his lawyer, Robert Richter, QC, likened to "oral rape" – the cardinal was granted bail and allowed to travel to Sydney to have knee replacement surgery before he was due to face another trial on more sex abuse charges.

The second trial has now been abandoned and the suppression order lifted.

Pell will be the highest ranking Catholic figure in the world to be jailed for child sex abuse.

Judge Peter Kidd has said Pell will be remanded in custody after a pre-sentence hearing on Wednesday. He is likely to be sentenced in the fortnight after that hearing.

There was an audible gasp in the courtroom on the afternoon of December 11 when a jury found Pell guilty of one charge of sexual penetration of a child under 16 and four of committing an indecent act with, or in the presence of, a child under 16.

The cardinal pursed his lips and stared at the floor, frowning, as he sat in the dock while the guilty verdicts were read out.

Pell’s victims were two 13-year-old choirboys who were assaulted in December 1996 and February 1997. Both incidents took place after Sunday mass and while Pell was robed.

In the first incident, the choirboys broke away from a procession outside the cathedral and snuck back into the sacristy - a room where priests dress for mass - and were swigging sacramental wine when Pell walked in.

Pell, dressed in his Archbishop’s robes, told the boys they were in trouble and then exposed himself.

He pushed one of the boys close to his penis, before turning to the second boy and putting his penis in the boy’s mouth.

Pell then masturbated as he fondled the second boy’s genitals.

In 1997, Pell pushed one of the boys against a wall in a cathedral hallway and squeezed the boy's genitals.

The second boy, who is now in his 30s, reported the allegations to police in 2015. He gave evidence across three days, and at one point said the offending was "something I've carried for the whole of my life".

The other victim died several years ago in accidental circumstances. He never reported the abuse and denied anything happened when he was asked by his mother.

Yet the evidence of the second victim was "powerful and persuasive" and withstood scrutiny under hours of cross-examination, Crown prosecutor Mark Gibson, SC, said.

The victim, who cannot be named for legal reasons, told the jury he was in shock after the abuse and didn't report it for years, partly out of fear he wouldn’t be believed.

"What would I do if I went forward and said such a thing about an archbishop?” he said.

He also feared his school scholarship would be jeopardised if he reported the offending.

"If I mentioned anything like that to anyone it would be a pretty big deal," he said.

"It would be something that I thought perhaps would be dismissed or not acknowledged and I knew that a scholarship [was] something that could be given and taken away, even at that age, and I didn't want to lose that. It meant so much to me."

So, he said, he put the events into one of the “dark corners or recesses” of his brain.

Mr Richter, who has previously accused Victoria Police of running a "get Pell operation", told the jury the allegations were a “far-fetched fantasy”.

It would have been impossible for two choirboys to break away from the procession unnoticed and enter the priests' sacristy, Mr Richter said.

"Only a madman would attempt to rape boys in the priests’ sacristy immediately after Sunday solemn mass," Mr Richter said during the retrial.

Pell had just launched the controversial "Melbourne Response" to child sexual abuse when he assaulted the two boys in 1996.

It later emerged that victims who sought compensation through the Melbourne Response received far smaller payouts, capped at $50,000, than they would have if they had gone through the courts. The response was criticised for doing more to protect the church and minimise its financial costs than helping victims.

Pell was due to face another trial, charged with molesting boys in a Ballarat swimming pool in the 1970s while he was a priest in his Victorian hometown.

But on Tuesday, prosecutor Fran Dalziel, SC, told the court the trial involving the swimmers from would no longer go ahead. That paved the way for Judge Kidd to revoke the suppression order.

Mr Richter asked Judge Kidd to extend the suppression order until after the matter went to the Court of Appeal.

Mr Richter confirmed Pell would appeal against his conviction, on the grounds that the verdict was unreasonable and contrary to the evidence heard by the jury.

Media lawyers urged Judge Kidd to revoke the order immediately given the high public interest in the case. Ms Dalziel supported the media in their application.

After an adjournment, Mr Richter announced he was withdrawing his opposition to the suppression order being revoked, which allowed Judge Kidd to grant media permission to report the story.

Pell was found guilty about three months after a jury in the earlier trial was unable to reach a verdict on the same charges and was discharged, which forced a retrial.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/victoria/cardinal-george-pell-found-guilty-of-child-sex-abuse-20181214-p50m86.html
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Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #342 on: February 26, 2019, 05:09:10 am »
Always came off as an arrogant c*nt. Now, we know he's an arrogant c*nt and a convicted paedophile.
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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #343 on: February 26, 2019, 11:44:12 am »
Always came off as an arrogant c*nt. Now, we know he's an arrogant c*nt and a convicted paedophile.

Find it hard to believe he suddenly decided that the appropriate penance for nicking altar wine was sexual assault. There must be more victims out there.

Offline KurtVerbose

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #344 on: February 26, 2019, 02:44:31 pm »
Find it hard to believe he suddenly decided that the appropriate penance for nicking altar wine was sexual assault. There must be more victims out there.

There are. The second trial was only abandoned because the judge ruled certain evidence as inadmissible. And if you look at Pell's history he's mired in abuse scandals and trying to cover it up.

I think the catholic church should be considered a criminal organisation. They cooperate together to abuse children on a big scale, and cooperate to hide that abuse from justice, as the op on this thread has highlighted.

I only know of him for a debate he had with Richard Dawkins, and to be honest he looked like a total idiot. A less polite debater than Dawkins (like Hitchens) would've completely humiliated him.
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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #345 on: February 26, 2019, 09:27:41 pm »
Find it hard to believe he suddenly decided that the appropriate penance for nicking altar wine was sexual assault. There must be more victims out there.

He's also supported multiple convicted catholic pedophiles over the years, he's one of the heads of an international child sex ring......

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #346 on: February 26, 2019, 09:59:36 pm »
In 2002

Evidently getting his excuses in early.


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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #347 on: February 27, 2019, 10:30:31 am »
In 2002

Evidently getting his excuses in early.


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Wonder why he was a world youth day delegate? Hmm...

It really shows they don't believe their own crap. If I thought I'd burn in hell for all eternity for something, I really wouldn't do it.
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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #348 on: February 27, 2019, 10:47:57 am »
Wonder why he was a world youth day delegate? Hmm...

It really shows they don't believe their own crap. If I thought I'd burn in hell for all eternity for something, I really wouldn't do it.

He won't burn in hell as long as he confesses his sins to one of his mates and then says ten Hail Marys.

I'd get more than that for confessing to a bit of swearing!

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #349 on: February 28, 2019, 04:57:51 am »
 "How and why is it that the principal institutional obstacle to LGBT rights at the worldwide level appears itself to be massively staffed by gay men?"
https://www.abc.net.au/religion/fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric-martel-and-the-structure-of-the-clerical-closet/10843678

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #350 on: February 28, 2019, 10:41:12 am »
He won't burn in hell as long as he confesses his sins to one of his mates and then says ten Hail Marys.

I'd get more than that for confessing to a bit of swearing!

I've always said, this is how religion is morally dubious. No sin will be unforgiven. When your God (or his surrogates, rather) claim to admit Murderers while sending unbaptised babies to hell, you should really start to ask questions.

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #351 on: February 28, 2019, 11:02:38 am »
I see little evidence of this great struggle as every time the Pope suggests something like progress he quickly gets slapped down by those around him who know what the Catechism and dogma says. It is unchanging, always stuck in the past.

The Catechism is stuck in the past but it's not unchanging - the current Catechism is from the 1990s. It's been belatedly changed in the past to represent societal shifts.  As recently as 2018 the Catholic position on the death penalty was revised, for example.  They have had to make these changes so that people don't look under the veil and realise it's a bunch of outdated, morally dubious, superstitious nonsense.

If you haven't done so already, you should read the Catechism. It's beyond parody. No wanking, no sex except for reproduction, no contraception, no women priests, no abortion...  gays are alright and can go to heaven (as long as they don't have any romantic relationships in their lifetime).

They STILL believe in transubstantiation. Madness. In 2019 people believe that a bit of wafer and some wine LITERALLY transform into the body and blood of a deity. And then you eat/drink it. I mean, even as a 10-year-old I was incredulous of that.

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #352 on: February 28, 2019, 11:15:41 am »
The Catechism is stuck in the past but it's not unchanging - the current Catechism is from the 1990s. It's been belatedly changed in the past to represent societal shifts.  As recently as 2018 the Catholic position on the death penalty was revised, for example. 

God changed his mind.

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #353 on: February 28, 2019, 11:58:18 am »
The Catechism is stuck in the past but it's not unchanging - the current Catechism is from the 1990s. It's been belatedly changed in the past to represent societal shifts.  As recently as 2018 the Catholic position on the death penalty was revised, for example.  They have had to make these changes so that people don't look under the veil and realise it's a bunch of outdated, morally dubious, superstitious nonsense.

The catholic church is a bit like that big boat cliche. As a lot of big businesses find it can take a long time to steer that boat in a different direction. Taking over 20 years to update their business model is pretty shit, but people keep flocking back to them for more no matter how bad things get. I guess they're a bit like Apple in that way

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #354 on: February 28, 2019, 11:58:51 am »
God changed his mind.

He's a textbook over-thinker. Always been a bit of a ditherer

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #355 on: February 28, 2019, 12:19:41 pm »

They STILL believe in transubstantiation. Madness. In 2019 people believe that a bit of wafer and some wine LITERALLY transform into the body and blood of a deity. And then you eat/drink it. I mean, even as a 10-year-old I was incredulous of that.

That's why we made our First Communion at eight.  ;)

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Re: Vatican letter told Ireland's Catholic bishops not to report child abuse
« Reply #359 on: March 13, 2019, 11:26:10 am »
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