Topic: How Lucas Leiva became a Liverpool player

[Cadno]

the game pasts this man by, just look at the impact that gerrard is having and then watch lucas - worlds apart. the gap between the two players shouldnt be that big

With analysis liek that you would fit right in on the Sly panel

[JohnHobbes]

Lucas is good, lets not be daft and call him class though... and this is from one of his biggest fans who's had 100's of arguments defending him past couple of years!

anybody who says they wouldnt swap him for alonso or masch back is lying

I think you could win a league with lucas in your team, the problem is he would have to be one of the weaker players in the side whereas right now he's one of the best in our team. 

I don't think anyone is disputing that Alonso and Mascherano are fantastic, but they are at the peak of their careers whilst Lucas is still moving towards his true potential. For now Alonso would in all likelihood be a better fit for us but in a few years, who knows? We have to develop talent not bemoan it isn't world class yet.

[Visigoth33]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL expectations are this low.

What's so funny? Lucas is playing as a DM, whatever your "expectations" are.

[The 5th Benitle]

the game pasts this man by, just look at the impact that gerrard is having and then watch lucas - worlds apart. the gap between the two players shouldnt be that big

I have absolutely no idea what game you are watching.

[JohnHobbes]

the game pasts this man by, just look at the impact that gerrard is having and then watch lucas - worlds apart. the gap between the two players shouldnt be that big

Try making Stevie the 'DM with responsibility to sit back and shield the defence' and we'll see just how big an impact Stevie would have. Same as the impact Mascherano used to have in that role. Also Stevie at peak of career Lucas still progressing

You cannot compare apples and oranges however much you want to use such a false analogy to boost your case

[MOZ]

I don't think anyone is disputing that Alonso and Mascherano are fantastic, but they are at the peak of their careers whilst Lucas is still moving towards his true potential. For now Alonso would in all likelihood be a better fit for us but in a few years, who knows? We have to develop talent not bemoan it isn't world class yet.

To be honest Lucas could be our Busquets if he keeps this form up and that lad is keeping Masch out of the Barca team.

[JohnHobbes]

To be honest Lucas could be our Busquets if he keeps this form up and that lad is keeping Masch out of the Barca team.

Busquets was also criticised by the media for not being Barcelona quality and he has proved them wrong. Fair play to him

[roscoff]

That 'at least he's getting into goalscoring positions' in relation to Lucas is getting tiresome..his conversion rate is abysmal...7 mins to put egg on my face then...

[The 5th Benitle]

That 'at least he's getting into goalscoring positions' in relation to Lucas is getting tiresome..his conversion rate is abysmal...7 mins to put egg on my face then...

Too late, you've managed it already.

[01harveyj]

I don't think anyone is disputing that Alonso and Mascherano are fantastic, but they are at the peak of their careers whilst Lucas is still moving towards his true potential. For now Alonso would in all likelihood be a better fit for us but in a few years, who knows? We have to develop talent not bemoan it isn't world class yet.

im not saying get rid of lucas for a second mate...

for me needs another couple of years, see how good he can get, because he's been around so long people forget how young he is

think fans trying to preach he's world class now etc make us look like a biased bunch of c*nts.... 

[JohnHobbes]

That 'at least he's getting into goalscoring positions' in relation to Lucas is getting tiresome..his conversion rate is abysmal...7 mins to put egg on my face then...

It only takes one chance in ten attempts. The goal he scored and the penalty he created which Stevie scored in the UEFA cup games last season were example of that.

The more he scores the better his shooting will be. Same as we have seen for Torres this season. Let's back his attempts to get into the area and score, rather than bemoan his lack of goals converted so far. Last season everyone complained he wasn't attacking enough...

[Red Ant]

That 'at least he's getting into goalscoring positions' in relation to Lucas is getting tiresome..his conversion rate is abysmal...7 mins to put egg on my face then...

You don't need his help mate

[JohnHobbes]

im not saying get rid of lucas for a second mate...

for me needs another couple of years, see how good he can get, because he's been around so long people forget how young he is

think fans trying to preach he's world class now etc make us look like a biased bunch of c*nts.... 

Sorry, I didn't mean to have a go at you. I just used your quote for framing my response to a post on the previous page

[BIGdavalad]

That 'at least he's getting into goalscoring positions' in relation to Lucas is getting tiresome..his conversion rate is abysmal...7 mins to put egg on my face then...

How many did Alonso and Masch score from open play between them?

[sneakyg]

Try making Stevie the 'DM with responsibility to sit back and shield the defence' and we'll see just how big an impact Stevie would have. Same as the impact Mascherano used to have in that role. Also Stevie at peak of career Lucas still progressing

You cannot compare apples and oranges however much you want to use such a false analogy to boost your case

so u wanna compare him to mash? hamann? essien?

[01harveyj]

Sorry, I didn't mean to have a go at you. I just used your quote for framing my response to a post on the previous page

no worrie mate i never read it as you having a pop anyway!

COME ON THE RED MEN!! fucking needed that! Roy for january manager of the month??

[The 5th Benitle]

so u wanna compare him to mash? hamann? essien?

Fucks sake.

YOU. Not 'u'. Text speak is not allowed on RAWK. I realise I am making a massive assumption that you are in fact capable of writing properly, but you could at least try.

[impz]

so u wanna compare him to mash? hamann? essien?

The world would never see war if we didn't have tools like you around.

[bleedsred1978]

so u wanna compare him to mash? hamann? essien?

I'd rather Lucas than Masch for most games.

[Manav]

Apart from his miss, thought he played really well today.

[Shooter]

Had a strange game I felt.

Didn't play poorly by any means, in fact I'd say he was above average... but he seemed hesitant on the ball at times and had a couple of dodgy moments (missed chance, handball in box).

[Popcorn]

Wasn't as good as usual today imo and miss was poor but  he put in a decent shift.

[smig]

Thought he was poor today in all honesty.

[Ray Clemence]

Thought he was poor today in all honesty.

he was ....

[Stussy]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL expectations are this low.

Pathetic, snide, ignorant, gloating when a class player for us misses a chance.

Crawled out when he misses a chance, went into hiding the rest of the season when he was playing great.

Truly pathetic.

[Cadno]

I think he struggled with Gerrard coming on where he had to take all the defensive responsibility in CM.  Seemed hesitant to get forward at times and always seemed to be looking to see where Gerrard was in order to cover.  Despite that he did the job well enough but not the type of performance he can put out

[Mother.F]

Hm. Like most threads about Lucas, this is quickly encompassing nearly everything the wonderful webbernet has to offer!

Lovely opening post Lachesis, it's never a bad thing to collate and expound on a player like this, we probably all need this kind of simple factual reminder on a regular basis. Because we're a group of incredibly spoilt children, and we only don the mantle of Best™ when it suits us. Otherwise we snipe at each other about hairstyles, or the sheer temerity of a young inexperienced 4th choice midfielder working hard to play next to our unbelievably talented starters, who were only some of the best in the world.

Although, honestly, thank the baby Jesus that he cut that hair, if only because reading opus after tract after discourse about something so inane as the relation of hair length to midfield success was reaching farcical proportions.

Anyway, I'm overjoyed for Lucas, he has definitely grown and blossomed, against the odds as well, and hopefully he continues to do so. I hope he plays a part in our Re-Renaissance. And even if we haven't grown (we never will, will we?), and we either still have to believe he's incompetent, or we have to line up for our virtual gold star because we said nice things about one of our own players way back when it was still trés unfashionable to do so, at least we can all breath a little easier because we don't have to cringe watching Carra try to pass to anyone in the world besides him.

[SwedenRed]

Thought he was poor today in all honesty.

Ey? Thought he had a good game personally... Instead of his regular back passes, nearly all his passes were adventurous and forward today.

[smig]

Ey? Thought he had a good game personally... Instead of his regular back passes, nearly all his passes were adventurous and forward today.

I disagree mate, thought he struggled and didn't really contribute much going forward. That's not to say I think he's a bad player, I just don't rate him as much as some do on here.

[SwedenRed]

I disagree mate, thought he struggled and didn't really contribute much going forward. That's not to say I think he's a bad player, I just don't rate him as much as some do on here.

Fair doo's. I couldnt stand him before...I saw no hope for him...but steadily he is growing on me.

[leivapool]

Huge Lucas fan but have a question for the haters:

"Does it ever occur to you who is doing the defensive cover  that allows Gerrard to go and create in attack?"  Its only because Lucas holds the midfield together defensively that Gerrard is able to create what he does in the attacking third, and Gerrard has been the first to admit this, and praise Lucas's contribution.

Lucas was often outnumbered in midfield today when Gerrard went up to support the attack.  Does he moan?  No, Does he just run himself in to the ground uncomplainingly for the team cause?  Yes. 

What's the only thing the Lucas haters can say to this?  He missed a chance.  He did, but so did plenty of our attackers.  Lucas is a holding midfielder.  His job is to defend.  Not glamorous,  He doesn't get the limelight, but as vital to the team as the attackers when they score the goals.   

It's a team game, Lucas contributes 100% for the team.  He just doesn't play the 'Hollywood' position.

[steampie]

........

lachesis, I thought the original post was very well researched and much more eloquent than I could ever hope to be....likewise for your response, Mother.F.

I despair at the sheer volume of people whose attitudes are shaped by the ridiculously lazy Sky 'punditry.'  And no, I'm not having a blind go at those whose opinions differ, but when they are grounded in blatant untruths it drives me mad.

The lad is still quite young, still developing rapidly, and I truly hope that he pulls on the red shirt for many years to come.

[SwedenRed]

Huge Lucas fan but have a question for the haters:

"Does it ever occur to you who is doing the defensive cover  that allows Gerrard to go and create in attack?"  Its only because Lucas holds the midfield together defensively that Gerrard is able to create what he does in the attacking third, and Gerrard has been the first to admit this, and praise Lucas's contribution.

Lucas was often outnumbered in midfield today when Gerrard went up to support the attack.  Does he moan?  No, Does he just run himself in to the ground uncomplainingly for the team cause?  Yes. 

What's the only thing the Lucas haters can say to this?  He missed a chance.  He did, but so did plenty of our attackers.  Lucas is a holding midfielder.  His job is to defend.  Not glamorous,  He doesn't get the limelight, but as vital to the team as the attackers when they score the goals.   

It's a team game, Lucas contributes 100% for the team.  He just doesn't play the 'Hollywood' position.

Totally agree.

[thegoodfella]

anybody who says they wouldnt swap him for alonso or masch back is lying

Let me think, a player that wants to be here versus the two that wanted brighter lights and better contracts, a tough choice that.

[leivapool]

People don't complain about Busquets scoring record at barca because they have other players to take that role, so why complain about Lucas's?

For Liverpool Lucas has played 139 and scored 6 times
For Barca Busquets has played 112 and scored 5 times
(source Wikipedia)

Pretty similar ratio really.........

[Sachin4ever]

Lucas does look like he's having more and more of an influence on our play and is definitely improving.  But all this is coming as the team is steadily declining.

People were getting on his back when we had a midfield of Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano, but now he's competing against/playing with Poulson, Spearing and Meireles.  Gerrard clearly isn't the force he was over a season ago, and those other 3 aren't in the same league as Alonso and Mascherano. For me, this is why he's starting to shine a lot more.

Kudos to him for knuckling down and getting on with it, though - I don't doubt his tenacity and his backbone, I just wonder if he'd still look as good as he currently does if he were playing in a fully functioning football team, performing at the top of their game.

yup. that is why he looked very bad against chelsea

[steveeastend]

Huge Lucas fan but have a question for the haters:

"Does it ever occur to you who is doing the defensive cover  that allows Gerrard to go and create in attack?"  Its only because Lucas holds the midfield together defensively that Gerrard is able to create what he does in the attacking third, and Gerrard has been the first to admit this, and praise Lucas's contribution

And that was the reason he was so fucked towards the end. Gerrard plays a very strange type of centre midfielder. It costs a lot of afford to play alongside Gerrard in holding midfield, making up for the gaps Gerrard leaves in terms of defence and still be available for building up possession.

When he plays alongsides Meireles it naturally fits very, very good. They know how to move and cover up space to close down the open gaps in midfield. Gerrard just cannot do that. Gerrard can do the outstanding thing in attack. But that´s not what you want to see from a holding midfielder as this puts the whole team under constant pressure.

It should be...

                  Lucas     Meireles
   Gerrard                             Maxi
                   Torres Ngog

We would destroy teams with a line up like this.

[Rafasacolytereturns]

Do you know what I absolutley fucking loved today.....after Torres and Cahill had a bit of aggro because of his snide challenge into the back of Torres, Lucas absolutley fucking webbed Cahil not a minute later and got a booking, it was a fucking glorious punt just below the knee with no attempt to play the ball...a real Souness "no one messes with my team mates when am around, take that u c*nt" challenge.....don't care what anyone says the lad is class and Captain material

[Sachin4ever]

i hate it when i have to defend lucas even now. When we gave a goal, he understood the urgency and came forward supporting the attack. How much ever we all like masch, U know he will never be in a position like that which lucas  missed. While ding this he was still taking care of defense. he is relatively young. he s still nervous in front of goal but it will change with experience

[Sachin4ever]

Do you know what I absolutley fucking loved today.....after Torres and Cahill had a bit of aggro because of his snide challenge into the back of Torres, Lucas absolutley fucking webbed Cahil not a minute later and got a booking, it was a fucking glorious punt just below the knee with no attempt to play the ball...a real Souness "no one messes with my team mates when am around, take that u c*nt" challenge.....don't care what anyone says the lad is class and Captain material

haha.. saw that too and said the same to my bro..