Author Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?  (Read 268826 times)

Offline neil4ad

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2040 on: January 19, 2011, 06:14:14 am »
I haven't read this entire thread -- but let's also remember that the movement of players  in front of Lucas this season has been....well often just crap. To suggest that Lucas only passes the ball sideways (which I disagree with) is half the picture (if you maintain that belief).
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Offline new-red

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2041 on: January 19, 2011, 08:48:11 am »
Leargoth, you are far too narrowly focused. You are only focused on the micro. You have to see how lucas affects the entire team with his play.

I have to admit that the USA vid must have seemed like it proved your point exactly because of how simple the passes seemed but I guarantee you that his manager greatly appreciated Lucas's holding role. He didn't do anything spectacular except keep possession and play it to more attacking players. Lucas did his job well in that game but I'm sure you probably thought it was pedestrian

Fine.

Then what was your opinion of his Ukraine performance because that surely showed his movement and passing range and tackling very well. Even you can't be blinkered enough to recognize the ability in that video.

to be honest, I don't think you understand the game well enough on a comprehensive level. You are far too focused on individual ability instead of what they bring to the team. ironically, you seem to appreciate Kuyt.

I don't think you will ever appreciate lucas unless he becomes the center piece of the side like Xabi was.

Right now Lucas is entrusted primarily with keeping possession. He is not asked to be the driving force for the team and therefore his contribution to the attack usually stops a several passes short of any goal or assist and therefore you don't find his contribution significant because all he is doing playing simple passes whereas its usually a lucas pass that gets the ball into the attacking third.

In the Xavi video, there is constant off the ball movement giving him several options to play to. Most of his passes are short and simple to a man in space and then he moves off the ball. When lucas passes it to a man and then moves forward there is no one else making themselves available for a pass. Its why the wingers cut inside all the time because they are looking for the next pass. That is why most of the time lucas will pass it and then move back a yard or two in case the player has to pass it back.

Last year when aquilani started playing significant minutes he forced movement out of the side which made it easier for lucas to play it quickly and effectively. There were games last year where we were unplayable and its all down to off the ball movement and quick passing.

Kenny is gonna get us playing fluidly again and you will start to see Lucas have a bigger impact in the side.

Also, what do you think of busquets?
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Offline Ryan M

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2042 on: January 19, 2011, 08:53:19 am »
Please don't compare Lucas to Xavi people. I'm a fan of his but talk like this that will get you visits from men in White coats. He's developing but still needs to be more consistent. I'm happier with him in our squad than if he was somewhere else. However comparing him to the Great Xavi is stupid. It's not just who Xavi plays with, it's the other way round, other players excel because they have Xavi in their team.

Offline new-red

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2043 on: January 19, 2011, 09:30:16 am »
Please don't compare Lucas to Xavi people. I'm a fan of his but talk like this that will get you visits from men in White coats. He's developing but still needs to be more consistent. I'm happier with him in our squad than if he was somewhere else. However comparing him to the Great Xavi is stupid. It's not just who Xavi plays with, it's the other way round, other players excel because they have Xavi in their team.

Its a combination. Im not for one second saying that Lucas and Xavi are of the same quality as that it is of course ludicrous.

What I and many others are saying is that when there is good movement in teh side then the short passing game can be very effective. The point of the Xavi video is to show that most of his passes are not highlight reel stuff. Most of them are short, quick passes to a man in space and then he moves forward.

If there was more movement in our side then Lucas would be playing even better. As it is, hes doing the best he can with the support given to him.

Kenny will get us playing more fluidly and then everyone will see the quality of lucas. As it is, only discerning viewers will appreciate his contribution.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2044 on: January 19, 2011, 09:33:16 am »
I haven't read this entire thread -- but let's also remember that the movement of players  in front of Lucas this season has been....well often just crap. To suggest that Lucas only passes the ball sideways (which I disagree with) is half the picture (if you maintain that belief).

Spot on!!!
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2045 on: January 19, 2011, 11:07:37 am »
Laergoth is a hypocrite as I posted in the Kuyt thread, he extolls Dirk's attributes, all of which Lucas has and more. Funnily enough Dirk is world class but Lucas is shit according to him.
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Offline Julio

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2046 on: January 19, 2011, 11:22:59 am »
Laergoth is a hypocrite as I posted in the Kuyt thread, he extolls Dirk's attributes, all of which Lucas has and more. Funnily enough Dirk is world class but Lucas is shit according to him.

It's George Orwell football in his mind, isn't it? Bad is good etc.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2047 on: January 19, 2011, 11:25:41 am »
Lucas is trying his best. He isn't a bad footballer. He isn't a world class footballer. But he is a talented player and as long as he continues to give 120%, I for one don't see any reason to question his abilities.

The manager has faith in him. The team and players have faith in him.

And that's all that counts.

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Offline Roger Federer

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2048 on: January 19, 2011, 11:27:40 am »
Its a combination. Im not for one second saying that Lucas and Xavi are of the same quality as that it is of course ludicrous.

What I and many others are saying is that when there is good movement in teh side then the short passing game can be very effective. The point of the Xavi video is to show that most of his passes are not highlight reel stuff. Most of them are short, quick passes to a man in space and then he moves forward.

If there was more movement in our side then Lucas would be playing even better. As it is, hes doing the best he can with the support given to him.

Kenny will get us playing more fluidly and then everyone will see the quality of lucas. As it is, only discerning viewers will appreciate his contribution.
Honestly, I thought it was true highlight reel stuff from Xavi, everything about it. His passes, his calm when in possession, his touch, reading of the game, vision, all superb, and not at all the "easy" or "sideways" stuff people accuse Lucas of doing. But then Xavi is a more attacking player than Lucas, and if we must compare our Brazilian to any Barca-player, it should probably be Busquets. Their roles in the side are more similar, and they are quite similar as players. I rate Busquets higher, and think he's incredibly underrated by most, but then I've never seen Lucas in a team with that movement and quality around him. I imagine he'd play even better than he does for us in that enviroment, like he seems to do with his Brazil.

Great post by Salty Dog above, by the way.

Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2049 on: January 19, 2011, 11:34:47 am »
Something tells me he'll be back for more tomorrow.

Touching on the point about the better off the ball movement in the Brazilian national team, have a look at the goal scored against USA in this video (especially the part from 3:13-3:28 where Lucas moves, receives, and then passes the ball 3 times).

I'm pretty sure most Lucas doubters would discount the passes that Lucas plays in the build up to this goal.  They are simple passes, but what they fail to realize is these are exactly the kind of passes Shankly refers to in the quote that Sangria keeps bringing up about exchanging simple passes and moving, which changes the shape of the defense, until one of the players whose job it is to sneak in, lo and behold, does just that, and they get a player running in behind the defense and putting in a cross which results in a goal.

What the Lucas doubters can't seem to grasp, for me, is that Lucas also has the ability to play the final ball too.  It's just that he currently plays in a position, both for us and (so far) the Brazilian national team under Mano Menezes, where his primary job is to maintain possession and give his team the platform to advance up the pitch.  He does this job very well, but in his career he has also shown that he has an eye for a defence splitting pass (see his assist to Gerrard vs Newcastle at St. James' from 2008-2009 season).  He just doesn't try them very often, because his job generally doesn't see him get into positions where that defence splitting ball is the right pass.

This is what Sangria keeps referencing when he talks about Collective vs Individual.  Lucas gave Brazil the platform to go score that goal vs USA because of his simple "sideways" passing.  And if you can not see how playing those simple balls allows his team to move up the field and change the pattern of the defense, allowing his teammate to sneak in and provide the final ball, then you really are incapable of seeing how doing a simple job can be the best thing for your team, collectively.

to be fair a lot of fan in this country dont understand the sideways / backwards pass.

it doesnt register that if you are getting pressed or all angles are covered that such passes actually open up angles.....i tried explaining this on the fifa pro rawk ps3 thread but tended to get sounded down with"its ok only if there isnt anything else on".

to me players who continually pass forward are not thinking well enough regarding things like angles etc.

not their fault imo.
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Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2050 on: January 19, 2011, 11:46:31 am »
It is odd mate. You signed up to this website about 10 days ago. You've amassed 170 posts already. 169 have been about bashing Lucas. It's bloody obsessive  ;D.

We're gonna get more of this with Cameron's 'Big society'. All the state institutions emptied, leaving the rest of us to look after the lost souls.   

I would take you up on this political debate, but i fear you would crumble under my first few arguments.


Offline Ycuzz

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2051 on: January 19, 2011, 11:57:20 am »
Uhm..

Swished thru the last pages as I believe, as usual, it's a merry go round..    again.

I'll just say;

I'm glad Lucas is playing for us and I hope he's here for years.

As you were.


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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2052 on: January 19, 2011, 12:05:03 pm »
I would take you up on this political debate, but i fear you would crumble under my first few arguments.

Oh, you're not a fuckin' Tory as well are you?
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Offline Mad Men

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2053 on: January 19, 2011, 12:05:10 pm »
The falcon and the snowman.
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Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2054 on: January 19, 2011, 12:06:06 pm »
There seems to be an interesting contradiction between all those posters who say Lucas is average, not good enough for us etc, and the suggested team formations on the pre-match threads, and I don't think it is because of our squad weaknesses.

Week in week out, almost all of those posters who suggest teams include Lucas. To me this is saying that they subconciously or conciously realise that the team needs Lucas.  In my eyes this is a tacit acknowledgement that he is very good at what he does they just don't want to outwardly admit it.  Obviously many of the team selections are by those who do rate Lucas, but there are definitely posters on here who have argued for so long that they don't rate Lucas, that they are now in a corner and couldn't possibly admit he has become very good at what he does.

 It takes a big man to admit he was wrong...................

Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2055 on: January 19, 2011, 12:09:12 pm »
Oh, and 1 more thing.  I really enjoy watching Lucas, his composure, neat passing, effective but unextravagant tackling, his commitment to the team. ......I wish we had a  few more like him.
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Offline MassDriver

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2056 on: January 19, 2011, 01:12:46 pm »
Lucas is trying his best. He isn't a bad footballer. He isn't a world class footballer. But he is a talented player and as long as he continues to give 120%, I for one don't see any reason to question his abilities.

The manager has faith in him. The team and players have faith in him.

And that's all that counts.

Exactly.

There seems  to be only two categories here on RAWK while discussing players. You are either world class or utter shite. "He is not Alonso -> Implies he is useless -> Conclusion : Sell the mother.  ::)

Lucas is not world class , not yet anyway. Nor is he 'average' , the codeword here for not Liverpool standard. He is a good player , good enough for Liverpool, good enough for most sides in the PL , good enough for Brazil. And more importantly , he is improving all the time. 


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Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2057 on: January 19, 2011, 01:15:20 pm »
Oh, you're not a fuckin' Tory as well are you?

I'm afraid so.

Offline Mad Men

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2058 on: January 19, 2011, 01:17:41 pm »
I'm afraid so.

But are you good lookin? Do you wear a suit and tie to birthday parties? Do you look at yourself in the mirror?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 01:19:44 pm by Mad Men »
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2059 on: January 19, 2011, 01:19:59 pm »
He has just turned 24. He's in the Brazil team, or at least knocking at the door very loudly. He's been our best player this year, not saying alot, but still been our best player. He's still got three or four years to GET to his peak. When he's 27/28, he will be an absolute beast of a player. Just hope it's at us.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2060 on: January 19, 2011, 01:21:31 pm »
I'm afraid so.

Well at least you're afraid.
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Offline Vidocq

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2061 on: January 19, 2011, 01:29:31 pm »
thnx to some users i realise we have new Zidane here

of course he can make some passes,tackles,runs...he's a footballer for fucks sake
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Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2062 on: January 19, 2011, 01:32:45 pm »
But are you good lookin? Do you wear a suit and tie to birthday parties? Do you look at yourself in the mirror?

???

Well at least you're afraid.

Touché. You have to admit competence is at a much higher level when the Tories are involved.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2063 on: January 19, 2011, 01:39:36 pm »
Touché. You have to admit competence is at a much higher level when the Tories are involved.
Delusion maybe. Competence certainly not.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2064 on: January 19, 2011, 01:44:03 pm »
thnx to some users i realise we have new Zidane here

of course he can make some passes,tackles,runs...he's a footballer for fucks sake
And who compared him to Zidane?

I and some other posters, see more similarites with Busquets. He's no Zidane either, but still a very good player and he plays an important role in his side, complementing more attacking players. He's got a very good first touch, and reads the game superbly, breaking up many attacks early, the times Barca happen to lose the ball. Lucas is not as good as Busquets imo, but he has similar qualities. In a more attacking team, with more quality around him, the stuff he does would be even more effective.

Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2065 on: January 19, 2011, 01:45:27 pm »
And who compared him to Zidane?

I and some other posters, see more similarites with Busquets. He's no Zidane either, but still a very good player and he plays an important role in his side, complementing more attacking players. He's got a very good first touch, and reads the game superbly, breaking up many attacks early, the times Barca happen to lose the ball. Lucas is not as good as Busquets imo, but he has similar qualities. In a more attacking team, with more quality around him, the stuff he does would be even more effective.

^^ This
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2066 on: January 19, 2011, 01:59:21 pm »
thnx to some users i realise we have new Zidane here

of course he can make some passes,tackles,runs...he's a footballer for fucks sake

shows how much of an idiot you are, and that's without even going through your post history for confirmation of that 'fact'
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Offline Valery_Karpin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2067 on: January 19, 2011, 01:59:58 pm »
The thing that gripes me with Lucas, and it's the thing that people generally refuse to answer, or excuse from answering, is; what is Lucas actually great at? What attributes does he have that make him world class, or potentially world class? What attributes does he have that are at the levels of those in the top bracket of player?

I've never heard anyone claiming he's fantastic at anything, other than defending his teammates.

And that is my gripe. Maybe I'm living a pipe dream, maybe I'm on another planet to everybody else, but I expect Liverpool midfielders to be world class, or as close to it as you can get. Masch was world class, Gerrard's world class, Alonso was world class, Sissoko wasn't world class but was one of the most formidable midfielders in Europe, an almost impossible opponent to play against. I look at our midfield now and Lucas is the number one midfielder picked, he is picked above everybody else and he was a number one pick last season as well, but I see no attribute that justifies such an integral part of the team. I just can't see what puts him above so many other premier league midfielders, because he doesn't standout at anything other than the intangibles.

So please, Lucas Leiva's Barmy Army, tell me what makes Lucas a stud?
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Offline Zverko

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2068 on: January 19, 2011, 02:01:27 pm »
The King: "The most important people at Liverpool Football Club are the people who want to be here"

Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2069 on: January 19, 2011, 02:12:54 pm »




So please, Lucas Leiva's Barmy Army, tell me what makes Lucas a stud?

 ;D ;D  He is rather nice don't you think?!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 02:22:04 pm by leivapool »
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Offline pistolpete

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2070 on: January 19, 2011, 02:20:09 pm »
The thing that gripes me with Lucas, and it's the thing that people generally refuse to answer, or excuse from answering, is; what is Lucas actually great at? What attributes does he have that make him world class, or potentially world class? What attributes does he have that are at the levels of those in the top bracket of player?

I've never heard anyone claiming he's fantastic at anything, other than defending his teammates.

And that is my gripe. Maybe I'm living a pipe dream, maybe I'm on another planet to everybody else, but I expect Liverpool midfielders to be world class, or as close to it as you can get. Masch was world class, Gerrard's world class, Alonso was world class, Sissoko wasn't world class but was one of the most formidable midfielders in Europe, an almost impossible opponent to play against. I look at our midfield now and Lucas is the number one midfielder picked, he is picked above everybody else and he was a number one pick last season as well, but I see no attribute that justifies such an integral part of the team. I just can't see what puts him above so many other premier league midfielders, because he doesn't standout at anything other than the intangibles.

So please, Lucas Leiva's Barmy Army, tell me what makes Lucas a stud?

He's great at playing 1 or 2 touch football in midfield for a team with comparatively poor movement in the fastest league in the world.
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Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2071 on: January 19, 2011, 02:21:56 pm »
The thing that gripes me with Lucas, and it's the thing that people generally refuse to answer, or excuse from answering, is; what is Lucas actually great at? What attributes does he have that make him world class, or potentially world class? What attributes does he have that are at the levels of those in the top bracket of player?

I've never heard anyone claiming he's fantastic at anything, other than defending his teammates.

And that is my gripe. Maybe I'm living a pipe dream, maybe I'm on another planet to everybody else, but I expect Liverpool midfielders to be world class, or as close to it as you can get. Masch was world class, Gerrard's world class, Alonso was world class, Sissoko wasn't world class but was one of the most formidable midfielders in Europe, an almost impossible opponent to play against. I look at our midfield now and Lucas is the number one midfielder picked, he is picked above everybody else and he was a number one pick last season as well, but I see no attribute that justifies such an integral part of the team. I just can't see what puts him above so many other premier league midfielders, because he doesn't standout at anything other than the intangibles.

So please, Lucas Leiva's Barmy Army, tell me what makes Lucas a stud?

The thing is, i can remember when those players you mentioned wasnt exactly World Class either.
For me most great midfielders dont reach there prime untill 25-30.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2072 on: January 19, 2011, 02:26:31 pm »
Masch was world class from the moment he stepped foot here 'til the moment he left. Xabi was world class, hindered by injuries but his class was there for all to see, hence the reason the club constantly met expectations back then by finishing in the top 4 and reaching the deeper stages of the CL.
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Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2073 on: January 19, 2011, 02:26:33 pm »
A great team player.

Exactly.

This thread seems to be full of people either saying that Lucas does a good job as part of a team and those who think as he is not a stand out world class player he offers nothing.

Title winning teams don't need all 11 first teamers to be world class.  They need a few, but it's more about how they operate as a team.

The thing that marks Lucas out as a great Liverpool player and worthy of his place is that he has a calm and patient head in the centre of midfield.  He does not look for the hollywood ball every time (which 95% of the time would lose possession).  He looks to work the ball around from the the centre to help in keeping control of the game.

Lucas is not world class, but with a Masch or Alonso alongside him he would be part of a World Class midfield.

Do you think Nicky Butt is World Class?  Well he still won a fair few trophies and played an essential part in a World Class team in the 90s.

Offline Roger Federer

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2074 on: January 19, 2011, 02:27:44 pm »
The thing that gripes me with Lucas, and it's the thing that people generally refuse to answer, or excuse from answering, is; what is Lucas actually great at? What attributes does he have that make him world class, or potentially world class? What attributes does he have that are at the levels of those in the top bracket of player?

I've never heard anyone claiming he's fantastic at anything, other than defending his teammates.

And that is my gripe. Maybe I'm living a pipe dream, maybe I'm on another planet to everybody else, but I expect Liverpool midfielders to be world class, or as close to it as you can get. Masch was world class, Gerrard's world class, Alonso was world class, Sissoko wasn't world class but was one of the most formidable midfielders in Europe, an almost impossible opponent to play against. I look at our midfield now and Lucas is the number one midfielder picked, he is picked above everybody else and he was a number one pick last season as well, but I see no attribute that justifies such an integral part of the team. I just can't see what puts him above so many other premier league midfielders, because he doesn't standout at anything other than the intangibles.

So please, Lucas Leiva's Barmy Army, tell me what makes Lucas a stud?
I'm not sure he'll ever be world class (whatever that means), but he could become an even more important player for us than he already is, someone who with his allround abilities complement all our other players.

His main attributes are similar to those I listed as Busquets (who keeps the "World Class" Mascherano on the bench, and who stayed on the pitch in the World Cup final when Del Bosque decided two sub one of his two central midfielders) strenghts above. His first touch is indeed very good, he passes the ball quickly, often to a teammate in more space than himself - giving us more time on the ball, and if the player reciving it is as clever as Lucas is on the ball, we'll continue to shift the opposition to where they don't want to be, eventually find openings to exploit. When nothing is on, he's calm and assured enough in possession to hold on to the ball, and make a pass as an opponent is closing in, again leaving his teammate with more space than he himself had. In short, he doesn't 'pass on a problem' as Yorkykopite often says, he does the opposite.

Out of possession, he reads the game better than Masch or Sissoko (both had pace and aggression, but didn't have close to Lucas positioning), cuts off passing options, and since last season atleast, he's a very good tackler (see the game against Chelsea for the best example). He often wins the ball without going to ground, which means we can start an attack quicker, and we're not a player short should he not win the ball. Sissoko and Masch could commit themselves to easily (often winning the ball though), and when they missed, we left huge gaps through the middle.

I don't think he absolutely superb at anything, but on the other hand he's much more allround than both Masch and definately Sissoko, and he can handle every aspect of the game to a good standard (should be more composed infront of goal though, he's gotten himself into some very good positions only to mess up). All in all a very good player, who with even more confidence, and hopefully better teammates and better movement around him in the future, will be become even better and more effective than he is.

Offline El Campeador

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2075 on: January 19, 2011, 02:34:10 pm »
Oh, you're not a fuckin' Tory as well are you?

Where's me popcorn ;D

Offline Sangria

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2076 on: January 19, 2011, 02:39:49 pm »
Oh, you're not a fuckin' Tory as well are you?

So he's apparently a Tory living in an offshore tax haven, lecturing Liverpool fans on what to think.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2077 on: January 19, 2011, 02:45:16 pm »
It would be nice to think that all Liverpool supporters will eventually come to appreciate what Lucas does for the team but anyone with a sense of history knows this will never happen. Ian Callaghan and Ronnie Whelan always had their detractors, even after 10 years at the club. 'What does he do?' people asked of Cally, 'And when's he gonna score?' 'All those sideways passes', they said of Whelan, 'He just does the simple thing every time'. We can hear echoes of this today.

A couple of posters on here - the obsessive fella was probably one - complained earlier that all that Lucas did was take the ball and find a colleague in space. You have to love that! It's basically the first sentence of the Bill Shankly Bible turned into the first item on the charge sheet! It reveals such a monumental incomprehension about the game that you wonder how anyone holding such a view can derive any enjoyment at all from watching or playing the sport. The obsessive bloke admits to liking Carragher and Kuyt the most. At the risk of alienating a few of my Lucas pals I'd say 'there's a little clue'. If it's the bish-bash-bosh that you like about football then the more controlled and possession-based game practised by Lucas probably won't appeal. It is, however, precisely what the Reds need. Moreover it's what we always had When We Were Kings. On its own it's not sufficient. You need pace, dynamism and trickery in the team as well (especially on the flanks I'd say). But, equally, you won't get anywhere with these qualities unless you have a midfielder like Lucas who speed-reads the game, supports players needing help and finds players requiring space.

El C, mate, I loved your videos of the lad, but they're wasted on the 'know-nothings'. Because such folk lack any sense of how two or three quick, short passes (even backward passes sometimes) can dishevel the opposition and open up a side of the pitch, they will forever gaze on compilations like yours, grunt a bit, choke on their Farleys, and yell for a nice high ball into the box. You saw yourself how the obsessive 'read' the Lucas heading video. Each one of those headers was made under pressure. In very few of them was Lucas a clear favourite to win the ball. But he won all but one, and in the one he didn't win his opponent - big Fellaini as it happened - was so forcefully challenged that he headed straight to a Red. And then there's this. In every single example in the film - even where an Evertonian picked up the 2nd ball - Liverpool were in a better position after Lucas's aerial challenge than they had been before it. And that's the Lucas creed. It's what his game is based on. He hands over solutions, not problems. Repeatedly. Throughout the game. 

"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline El Campeador

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2078 on: January 19, 2011, 02:50:57 pm »
But, equally, you won't get anywhere with these qualities unless you have a midfielder like Lucas who speed-reads the game, supports players needing help and finds players requiring space.

In a pistachio shell.

Quote
El C, mate, I loved your videos of the lad, but they're wasted on the 'know-nothings'.

No they're not. I had a lot of fun flooding the thread and listening to music through my Sennheiser cans while putting my new triple-monitor setup through its paces. For me, RAWK is about giving back, not bitching and moaning about young Brazilians.

That Samba video especially had me swaying. I bet the Tory can't dance.

Offline mickeydocs

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #2079 on: January 19, 2011, 02:52:57 pm »
One of the issues for Lucas lately is the amount of games he has played. Looks to me like he could do with a one game rest to get back to the level he was at for most of the season. Very good talent and I'm very interested to see how he will develop under Kenny.
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