Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?

[Laergoth]

Oh and the other reason I believe it's a tongue-in-cheek posting is because the Youtube user is called: "WorldClassLucas"

It all points towards parody.

That said, having read how mental some of the Lucas lovers in this thread are, there is still a 10% chance it's not tongue-in-cheek but deadly serious.

[GrkStav]

I'm 90% sure that the person posting that is not a Lucas fan, because:

a) Most of the headers were ineffective ones which went straight to Everton.

b) It also included about 3 clips of Lucas being beaten to the header.

Why would a Lucas fan post such a thing, when it would be better to compile some of the decent passes he made in the game, rather than his weak and ineffective headers?

Perhaps the one who posted it can give us some insight.

No, these were ALL his headers. Not selected to make a good case for him.

You do realize that getting a video compilation of ALL his passes, ALL his headers, ALL his tackles, etc. from a game is good evidence, right?

Obviously, you were not impressed. Fair enough and you've told us so. Now what?

[JasbinderX]

He's not good enough.

[GrkStav]

Are you purposefully trying to antagonize people here, laergoth?

[Yorkykopite]

It's more like this:

It is odd mate. You signed up to this website about 10 days ago. You've amassed 170 posts already. 169 have been about bashing Lucas. It's bloody obsessive  .

We're gonna get more of this with Cameron's 'Big society'. All the state institutions emptied, leaving the rest of us to look after the lost souls.   

[Laergoth]

It is odd mate. You signed up to this website about 10 days ago. You've amassed 170 posts already. 169 have been about bashing Lucas. It's bloody obsessive  .

We're gonna get more of this with Cameron's 'Big society'. All the state institutions emptied, leaving the rest of us to look after the lost souls.   

It's odd mate. I sign up 17 days ago and make about 20 posts relating to Lucas, out of 170. And you grossly distort the figures.

We're gonna get more of this with Cameron's 'Big society'. Innumerate retards will now flock the streets giving their opinions.

[mulhergremista]

As I remember from the game,  most heades of Lucas were defensive, one in particular I remember as he deflected a dangerous ball and ended an Everton attack.

But to be sure, maybe I will watch the game again, if I find the retransmission

[deadlybuzz]

Haha. Let them speak for themselves. You tell us what you see, then!

Ok.

I like how most of his headers went straight to Everton players.. In the first 3 seconds, he cleared a cross outside the box from Baines, would have looked foolish if he pulled a Konchesky and watched it sail over his head to give Everton a clearer chance at goal by approaching into the box for not dealing with it than heading/clearing it back a couple of yards to Fellaini.

...and how he crashed into his team-mates a couple of times. Next clip, The dreaded man-to-man marking. He's keeping his eyes the entire time on the cross. He's marking his man Heitinga and following him but he gets lost as he runs into Agger (who was also chasing Distin). A tactic made by Everton to get Heitinga into open space. Pity Baines' corner isn't great as it floats over Heitinga's head to his man-marker Lucas who heads it away to safety in free open space in front of goal. Lucas could have been beaten there but wasn't.

...And that he was beaten in the air sometimes by players shorter than him. Watching this again, who's shorter than him? The only one who beat him was Fellaini once clearly and maybe Rodgewell and Fellaini is a tall tough fecker with his headers. Lucas' mission was to mark Fellaini closely every time to put him off and the one header Fellaini won it landed into Johnson's feet. The amount of headers he had in that clip show that the majority of Everton's attack were long balls from Baines to the midfield, mainly Fellaini who's good at them - Lucas won most of those balls and headed them to relative safety.


That's what I see.

[common]

Haha, nice. I like how most of his headers went straight to Everton players

It's Even to be fair, do your maths

how he crashed into his team-mates a couple of times.

Everton's corner - Skrtel&Agger watching their men having no clue where the ball is, and making a perfect double screen on their own player. Who's still managed to clear the ball away. If it was a free header and we conceded I bet you'd have been in full force, you moron. Can you remind me the other "crash"?

And that he was beaten in the air sometimes by players shorter than him.

He also smashes Distin in the air who goes down, and can't properly recover and get back in time to avoid our first goal.

Lucas' statistics are one thing, but his actual impact is another. His passes rarely come to anything.

Are you aware that monster header was as important as Kuyt's (who should have headed Johnson's cross in btw)? The fact we wouldn't have scored if Lucas was beaten in the air by Distin? Do you like Skrtel in the air by the way? Open your eyes or just stop embarrassing yourself even more.

[deadlybuzz]

As I remember from the game,  most heades of Lucas were defensive, one in particular I remember as he deflected a dangerous ball and ended an Everton attack.

But to be sure, maybe I will watch the game again, if I find the retransmission

There would be no need to watch it again, but if you feel like it: http://skpd-hd-football.blogspot.com/2011/01/epl-liverpool-v-everton-720p-hd.html

[Yorkykopite]

It's odd mate. I sign up 17 days ago and make about 20 posts relating to Lucas, out of 170. And you grossly distort the figures.

We're gonna get more of this with Cameron's 'Big society'. Innumerate retards will now flock the streets giving their opinions.

You count like you write. It's a bloody mess.   

You fucked up the number of Lucas stray headers on the video and you did the same with your number of hate posts. Were you the bloke that counted Ahmadinejad's votes in the Iranian general election last year. 

[Valery_Karpin]

I think the video is an obvious attempted parody of Lucas' game, that much has to be obvious. However, it is still a reel of all of his headers from the game, so it gives people an opportunity to watch back on an aspect to his game that was put under heavy pressure all game. He done quite well, but probably could have done with a player like Mascherano next to him scooting around for those loose second balls.

[therockbox]

I think the video is an obvious attempted parody of Lucas' game

No it isn't, and here's why...

it is still a reel of all of his headers from the game

Deary me.  The law in full effect.

[Valery_Karpin]

No it isn't, and here's why...

Deary me.  The law in full effect.

Look at the author's name, look at the title of it "Lucas vs. Everton", notice that he picked an aspect of his game supporters often champion: his bravery/heading. I've heard/read it a lot, and I think what the video creator has done and used that to show 'look, all he does is head it to the opposition', when, in reality, he does what's asked of him. It's the type of thing Mancs do when they pose as Liverpool fans. But, if it's a serious video with serious aims, then I'll hold my hand up, I'm big enough to accept.

I dunno, I just can't imagine someone with a name 'worldclasslucas' actually being serious with anything they do. Particularly after watching his other two videos, that have questionable aims, I feel.

[Laergoth]

I dunno, I just can't imagine someone with a name 'worldclasslucas' actually being serious with anything they do. Particularly after watching his other two videos, that have questionable aims, I feel.

Especially the one that showcases the defending of "Paul [Konchesky] & Joe [Cole]". Bizarre, to say the least.

[Valery_Karpin]

Especially the one that showcases the defending of "Paul [Konchesky] & Joe [Cole]". Bizarre, to say the least.

The one repeatedly showing Carra to be aimless is, in my opinion, something only a WUM would create to mock a player.

[Sangria]

It's more like this:

The players who (I believe) are shite in our team should be seen to be shite. Otherwise, it is potentially to the detriment of the club.

I would love for Lucas to do well. I just think it's insane to label him as one of our best players, when everything he does smacks "Mediocrity".

If anything, ridiculing him and pointing out his mediocrity is the necessary antidote to those wildly distorting him as our best player.

But I have to say, he has mastered the Powder-Puff Header technique.

Wonderful. So you're not here to discuss a player, but only to smear him as much as you can until all the shite you're throwing at him sticks.

[Laergoth]

Wonderful. So you're not here to discuss a player, but only to smear him as much as you can until all the shite you're throwing at him sticks.

Nah. To be fair, I'm not exaggerating anything about him - Just pointing out his negative aspects (of which there are many), sometimes with a slightly mocking tone. If you can't accept that, probably means they're a flaw in your stance.

[El Campeador]

You have Dirk as an avatar I see. That figures.

 

[LFC Jim]

Why is there even a thread for this?

[bam09]

Haha, nice. I like how most of his headers went straight to Everton players, and how he crashed into his team-mates a couple of times. And that he was beaten in the air sometimes by players shorter than him.

Top post, love it.

Most of those headers were clearing ones. They weren't passing headers. Off of a corner you aren't really trying to start a break as a priority, but get a head on it and clear the danger.

Top post, love it.

[Sangria]

Nah. To be fair, I'm not exaggerating anything about him - Just pointing out his negative aspects (of which there are many), sometimes with a slightly mocking tone. If you can't accept that, probably means they're a flaw in your stance.

Maybe I'm wrong in how I see players, but I always try to look for the positive. Are you sure you're a Liverpool fan?

[bam09]

It's more like this:

The players who (I believe) are shite in our team should be seen to be shite. Otherwise, it is potentially to the detriment of the club.

I would love for Lucas to do well. I just think it's insane to label him as one of our best players, when everything he does smacks "Mediocrity".

If anything, ridiculing him and pointing out his mediocrity is the necessary antidote to those wildly distorting him as our best player.

But I have to say, he has mastered the Powder-Puff Header technique.

You're daft. So because you see them as shite, they are? If you have such a good eye for talent and ability why aren't you involved in professional football?

People are saying he's been one of, if not the best player on the side this year. He's played at a high level most matches, and it's a very reasonable thing to say.

You're not really proving your point, but making yourself look cluess.

But, I have to say, you have mastered the Powder-Puff Posting technique.

[common]

The one repeatedly showing Carra to be aimless is, in my opinion, something only a WUM would create to mock a player.

I've made just one Carra "clip", as I was sick of his constant hoofing. I prefer Lucas' short passing play. And his bravery in the air too.

So as his tackling skills you've dismissed already. Don't watch it, it's all good.

Lucas vs Everton (good tackles/interceptions)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqhKc3cF7QU

[El Campeador]

If you can't accept that, probably means they're a flaw in your stance.

Wanna dance?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/7hXPN-M5iPo?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/7hXPN-M5iPo?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

[Laergoth]

Maybe I'm wrong in how I see players, but I always try to look for the positive. Are you sure you're a Liverpool fan?

Yes. Note that I've stood up for Dirk and Carra, vehemently, in other threads while other 'fans' have ridiculed them. It's all about opinion. For me, Lucas does have a negative impact on the team's overall effectiveness. Therefore, I would rather he was out of the team, and I see no reason in getting behind him. As a person, I would never say anything hateful at him, but as a player, I just don't rate him.

I take your point though and it isn't exactly in the spirit of Liverpool FC for me to ridicule any of our own players. But it seems to happen a lot on here, so I thought "What the heck? Might as well be brutally honest, since everyone else is going for bluntness rather than blind positivity".

[Laergoth]

You're daft. So because you see them as shite, they are? If you have such a good eye for talent and ability why aren't you involved in professional football?

Daftest thing I've heard all day.

People are saying he's been one of, if not the best player on the side this year. He's played at a high level most matches, and it's a very reasonable thing to say.

Those people have their opinion. I have my opinion.

You're not really proving your point, but making yourself look cluess.

But, I have to say, you have mastered the Powder-Puff Posting technique.

Not bad.

[bam09]

Yes. Note that I've stood up for Dirk and Carra, vehemently, in other threads while other 'fans' have ridiculed them. It's all about opinion. For me, Lucas does have a negative impact on the team's overall effectiveness. Therefore, I would rather he was out of the team, and I see no reason in getting behind him. As a person, I would never say anything hateful at him, but as a player, I just don't rate him.

I take your point though and it isn't exactly in the spirit of Liverpool FC for me to ridicule any of our own players. But it seems to happen a lot on here, so I thought "What the heck? Might as well be brutally honest, since everyone else is going for bluntness rather than blind positivity".

Yeah, that's the spirit. Sums you up.

[Laergoth]

I've made just one Carra "clip", as I was sick of his constant hoofing. I prefer Lucas' short passing play. And his bravery in the air too.

You do realise that Roy Hodgson specifically told his defenders to hoof?

[El Campeador]

I just love watching the kid play. If he was my teammate, I'd love him. If he was my opponent, I'd be frustrated as fuck.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6sA21jFGHnM?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/6sA21jFGHnM?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

Settle in lads. I feel like taking like taking LeWoyJenkins for a spin. Lucas flood alert.

[Laergoth]

Yeah, that's the spirit. Sums you up.

Give it a rest, mate. This is an internet forum. I'm not going to the game and jeering him. Lucas won't be reading this. It will have no impact on him.

[Sangria]

Yes. Note that I've stood up for Dirk and Carra, vehemently, in other threads while other 'fans' have ridiculed them. It's all about opinion. For me, Lucas does have a negative impact on the team's overall effectiveness. Therefore, I would rather he was out of the team, and I see no reason in getting behind him. As a person, I would never say anything hateful at him, but as a player, I just don't rate him.

I take your point though and it isn't exactly in the spirit of Liverpool FC for me to ridicule any of our own players. But it seems to happen a lot on here, so I thought "What the heck? Might as well be brutally honest, since everyone else is going for bluntness rather than blind positivity".

It can be possible to be brutally honest, but know what one is talking about as well. Show me where you've ever written about a player beyond the media cliches. I know I've done so for Kuyt, in some detail. What he's good at, what he's not so good at, what it means for the team, etc. Don't look at the media-approved wisdom. Look at the details, explain it in clear English rather than cliches, explore the implications. Have you ever done this? Show me.

[bam09]

Daftest thing I've heard all day.

I was asking why a supreme talent evaluator such as yourself who decide who's good and who's not is not making footballing decisions for someone. Please provide an answer.

Those people have their opinion. I have my opinion.

No, those people have their opinion, you have the truth, as you'd be the first to tell anyone.

Not bad.

Would rather make a typo than talk shite.

[El Campeador]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Fx1rmJpeXw?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/2Fx1rmJpeXw?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>

I gonna turn the Lucas thread into Queensland, AU.

[Laergoth]

If you want the blunt truth? The videos of Lucas vs USA show him making a load of simple passes either sideways or backwards.

If you made a video of Xavi doing such passes, people would watch it and scratch their heads, thinking "What the heck? Why have I just watched a compilation of Xavi's most simple passes? Why haven't I seen the good stuff he does."

Problem with Lucas is, that is his good stuff - sideways pass to the nearest team-mate. A job literally anyone could do.

[bam09]

Give it a rest, mate. This is an internet forum. I'm not going to the game and jeering him. Lucas won't be reading this. It will have no impact on him.

At an internet forum you have the chance to learn something, from people who are far more educated about the game(and I'm not suggesting that I'm some super smart footballing brain, just pointing out your daftness). When many respected posters here point out something and give video evidence or site examples of it, then you should just say "OK, I'll look for that next match." But you take the line that you're smarter than everyone else and know everything.

If you take some time to educate yourself on the club's traditions and history, you'll see that every time a player dons the red shirt, you get behind him. It's not pick and choose who you get behind. You're behind the badge and shirt not specific players.

[Sangria]

It can be possible to be brutally honest, but know what one is talking about as well. Show me where you've ever written about a player beyond the media cliches. I know I've done so for Kuyt, in some detail. What he's good at, what he's not so good at, what it means for the team, etc. Don't look at the media-approved wisdom. Look at the details, explain it in clear English rather than cliches, explore the implications. Have you ever done this? Show me.

If you want the blunt truth? The videos of Lucas vs USA show him making a load of simple passes either sideways or backwards.

If you made a video of Xavi doing such passes, people would watch it and scratch their heads, thinking "What the heck? Why have I just watched a compilation of Xavi's most simple passes? Why haven't I seen the good stuff he does."

Problem with Lucas is, that is his good stuff - sideways pass to the nearest team-mate. A job literally anyone could do.

These people really have no thoughts beyond media wisdom and cliched responses.

[Laergoth]

It can be possible to be brutally honest, but know what one is talking about as well. Show me where you've ever written about a player beyond the media cliches. I know I've done so for Kuyt, in some detail. What he's good at, what he's not so good at, what it means for the team, etc. Don't look at the media-approved wisdom. Look at the details, explain it in clear English rather than cliches, explore the implications. Have you ever done this? Show me.

Honestly? I don't read or watch the media. Perhaps this is your issue - Perhaps you're looking at these media reports and trying hard to take the counter view, instead of accepting that sometimes the media cliches are right? And that the media do usually hype up the players who actually are the best players. Perhaps you are trying to hard to find a unique viewpoint, in order to propagate your own image on this forum, rather than just looking with your own eyes and making realistic judgements?

To answer your question: Any of my posts, as they were all based on my own (medialess) judgement.

Honestly, you should just ignore the media if their cliches are 'getting' to you.

[El Campeador]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/z7-Xyws3S3A?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/z7-Xyws3S3A?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US</a>



"There is no cure for Lucas Leiva. Thank God."

[bam09]

If you want the blunt truth? The videos of Lucas vs USA show him making a load of simple passes either sideways or backwards.

If you made a video of Xavi doing such passes, people would watch it and scratch their heads, thinking "What the heck? Why have I just watched a compilation of Xavi's most simple passes? Why haven't I seen the good stuff he does."

Problem with Lucas is, that is his good stuff - sideways pass to the nearest team-mate. A job literally anyone could do.

It shows him making quick decisions and reading the play well resulting in easy tackles or interceptions. Watch how quickly he's under pressure by the Americans who are playing to force mistakes, and Lucas is just playing one touch footy right to the foot. You may think that's useless, but Brazil relies on holding possession, and the central midfielders winning the ball back and playing it to an attacking outlet. He's doing his job perfectly.

Lucas can make long passes as well, but it makes no sense to force them(see Stevie and him forcing the ball forward only to give it away 8/10 times) compared to Lucas who plays a very efficient brand of football with crisp passing, smart decisions, and a great understanding of creating angles and taking them away.