Topic: Gerrard Unbound

[sattapaartridge]

I think this is a little bit premature to be fair Yorky. We've only seen Meireles and Lucas play once (although it has been very impressive) against good opposition in Spurs. It's still early days, but we need to see a little more goal threat from one or the other.

It's debatable that if Gerrard was playing Right Wing, we'd have enough goal threat with Gerrard, Torres, X & Y. Where X is likely to be your favourite player and Y would be Maxi or Ngog. So if nothing was happening in the game, Gerrard would just come deep, get the ball, and try to do something himself.

The importance to getting the ball to players who can do something with it will be huge. We can't afford to not get someone like Gerrard on the ball creating some opportunities. But I agree, if Gerrard was 'found' as an outlet on the right, he'd be more likely than any of our current wide players to make something happen.

Opposition will just double up on Gerrard, if Meireles cannot create and be a little threatening on goal. It's early days, but I think he is one who will step up to the plate.

Overall, for a player like Lucas to have players like Gerrard, Meireles, Ngog, Kuyt and Torres ahead of you, can only be a good thing.

[-Daws-]

Superb read as ever Yorky.

Totally agree as well. I think a lot of us have been saying for years that Gerrard lacks the intelligence to retain possesion in the central midfield - certainly as part of a midfield pair. 

A lack of patience is an apt way to describe it. Personally I'd like to see him play as the most attacking of a midfield three, Lucas holding and Raul stringing things together in the midfield. I think if Gerrard was allowed the freedom to arrive from deep in the midfield without leaving big holes, we really could get the best out of his attacking ability and give him some defensive responsibilty, in the respect of pressing and getting tackles in where he sees the opportunity without overburdening him, as you put it. This would allow for Dirk and Maxi/Cole to tuck in and support Torres as well.

Still, for as long as Roy is here, expect a Gerrard/Lucas midfield with Raul supporting the striker or playing wide in a 4-4-2.

[simesy]

Stevie tries too many holywood passes to play cm.we need someone like lucas and raul in the middle if only to keep posession til the right moment.Stevie will definately benefit from their partnership because he will recieve the ball further forward where he can do his damage.

[common]

excellent read.

[koppitekop11]

Great post yorky, really enjoyed that.

Why is everyone talking about a team with aqulaini in though? The lad has gone ffs and if you are to believe reports he is not coming back. Move on lads.

Think Gerrard would personally benefit from behing out on the right as would Torres. Also think Raul and Lucas need to use this time with Gerrard not being in the squad (probably the games against Steau and Villa) and really stake their claim for starting places and show ol' Royston what they can do together. 

Oh an btw I still think Stevie gets way too much criticism from some of our fans. Some people just seem to forget everything that he has done. The lad, as yorky said, really is a true genius.

[Guz-kop]

Superb read as ever Yorky.

Totally agree as well. I think a lot of us have been saying for years that Gerrard lacks the intelligence to retain possesion in the central midfield - certainly as part of a midfield pair. 

A lack of patience is an apt way to describe it.

Yes, Yes and yes.

It's not a lack of intelligence. That's a total and utter slap in the face for someone who can do things with the ball at such a pace that 99% of footballers in the world could only ever dream of. You simply do not create or score as many goals as he has in the last 10 years without having something between your ears. The awareness of your position on the pitch, of your team-mates, of the defenders, of where the ball is, how quickly it's falling, moving into space etc. etc. It doesn't just happen, it takes fucking incredible skill and more importantly awareness. It's like saying a goal poacher doesn't have any footballing intelligence, everyone around him does the donkey work and he just gets in the right position and finishes it off. Well, that getting into space is intelligence. And you can't teach it. Same goes for discipline and the way he played in 05/06 from the right wing - to start from the right and roam but make sure the team doesn't lose its shape and the right back isn't constantly exposed - that shows tactical discipline in ABUNDANCE. I think a lack of patience is spot on.

The discussion is good but so old now when it comes to Gerrard. I'm very set in my ways regards him in that he can play basically any outfield position and do well. That includes central midfield. But his best qualities are in the final third and playing him just off a striker or from one of the wide positions allows him to put most of his energy into that. We should be getting the best out of our best players and playing Gerrard in those positions does that. The only problem is that we haven't seen enough evidence from Lucas, Meireles or Poulsen that any of them are better than Gerrard the central midfielder. They may prove to be given the chances but haven't yet which is why I don't mind seeing Gerrard play there occasionaly.

Which brings me onto another point in that as much as I love what Rafa did to Gerrard's game, I think we over did it last season. Ngog didn't have the strength to play with Gerrard last season when Torres was injured. We didn't have the skill in midfield to keep the ball high up the pitch after Xabi left so it meant Gerrard was left awfully isolated for a lot of games. I'd have actually liked to see Gerrard drop deeper on occasion and gone with Kuyt as a second striker when Torres was injured last season. And also, I don't fall for the hype that Rafa never trusted Gerrard in central midfield or infact didnt know where to play him. As far as i'm concerned, he trusted Steven more than any other player on the pitch knowing full well he could get a performance from him. As for central midfield in particular, 1 May 2007 proved to me Rafa had no qualms whatsoever about playing him there, if needed.

[koppitekop11]

It's not a lack of intelligence. That's a total and utter slap in the face for someone who can do things with the ball at such a pace that 99% of footballers in the world could only ever dream of. You simply do not create or score as many goals as he has in the last 10 years without having something between your ears.

Agree with that mate, totally disrespectful to say he hasnt the  intellegence to play cm

[BCCC]

Fantastic analysis yorky mate. Loved it.

[Eeyore]

Excellent read Yorky.

[Cadno]

Yes, Yes and yes.

It's not a lack of intelligence. That's a total and utter slap in the face for someone who can do things with the ball at such a pace that 99% of footballers in the world could only ever dream of. You simply do not create or score as many goals as he has in the last 10 years without having something between your ears. The awareness of your position on the pitch, of your team-mates, of the defenders, of where the ball is, how quickly it's falling, moving into space etc. etc. It doesn't just happen, it takes fucking incredible skill and more importantly awareness.

I disagree. All of what you have said there describes natural talent skill and ability of which Gerrard has in abundace the lack of intelligence Gerrard has is in choosing when to use that ability.  Like Yorky said, he is able to play superb balls at pace that look superb but he lacks the intelligence to know when to play them and when to not.

[Cybertom]

Best post I've read in a while.
I do fear at the age of 30 that maybe his pace isn't what it was, but theres no doubt that his power and intimidation will send him past loads of defenders.

If we were to play 4-2-3-1, he would be great on the right, as Cole cant play on the wings at all!

[Garstonite]

And Pacheco passed the 'Pennant-Bellamy Test' too. He demanded the ball off the captain a couple of times, he ignored Gerrard when he had better options, he generally did not appear intimidated. And Gerrard clearly liked it. Odd as it might seem, he saw in the teenager a peer.

You see this a lot in Gerrard and often it is to the team's detriment. He used to literally take the ball off the feet of Diao and Biscan, but he loved playing with Morientes and Aquilani. He trusted them in the sense that he knew that if he gave them the ball, he'd get it back from them. He'd abandon his position knowing they could find him again.

On the topic of Lucas, he's redefined from the player we bought. At Gremio (from all accounts at least), he was the more advanced of the two central midfielders. Now he's a deep-lying player who is very good on the ball. Tackling has become one of his better attributes. However, the great thing about his partnership with Meireles is that Raul is good enough to hold the proverbial fort too and allow Lucas to venture forward on occasion. He played as deepest player in a three man midfield at Porto anyway, so he has it in his locker.

[unusg]

good post.

its an interesting conundrum as to Gerrrard's best position and how it relates to the rest of the midfield. I dont have a problem with him in central midfield in a 4-4-2 as it enables him to move forward and arrive late at the edge of the box as he did earlier in his career. However, in a 4-2-3-1 i prefer him to have a free role with others responsible for defensive work.  this formation would work better still if one of lucas and miereles had more of a creative spark as they would offer more of a goal threat going forward. They are developing into a good combination but for us to really get back to where we were in 2008/09 we need more stardust quality out wide and in the centre. 

A fit aquilani switching roles with gerard in a game and backed up by one of lucas and meireles could give us that if our defence was stronger and more mobile methinks. Sadly that doesnt seem likely to happen anytime soon.

[Ambrosia]

Best post I've read in a while.
I do fear at the age of 30 that maybe his pace isn't what it was, but theres no doubt that his power and intimidation will send him past loads of defenders.

If we were to play 4-2-3-1, he would be great on the right, as Cole cant play on the wings at all!

People get too caught about his age. As of right now, his pace is still what it was.

Agree. Right wing is perfect for him and its something that i've been advocating for what seems like years. The season before last where he scored 25 (?) goals, most of them originated from the right side of the pitch. Completely irrelevant to Liverpool, but i've never understood why Capello has never played Gerrard on the right, instead of the left. It was such an obvious solution during the WC and now.

[Valery_Karpin]

Agree with that mate, totally disrespectful to say he hasnt the  intellegence to play cm

It's not, though. The role of the central midfielder is forever changing, there have been times when the box-to-box player has been the more favourable, but it now seems the more favourable is the disciplined passer.

People confusing brains with ability are wrong when people say he isn't 'clever' or lacks discipline. Gerrard, as a modern central midfield player, simply doesn't have the patience or the nous to run a game. He is impatient, he passes forwards too often, he misses simple things too often, his weight of pass is too erratic to run a game: he simply isn't a player suited to playing in deeper positions. He can do it, probably better than most, but has too many other talents to be wasted in deeper midfield.

For an example of the point that's made: I'd love for somebody to suggest a game where Gerrard has dictated the game in a way that a traditional playmaker has, by that I mean players like Xavi and Alonso. He hasn't, at least to any consistency of note, as that's not what his game's about and that's not how he's been coached to play. He's a great player, stupidly world class, but his biggest weakness is a general lack of discipline, both on and off the ball.

[smurfinaus]

People get too caught about his age. As of right now, his pace is still what it was.

Agree. Right wing is perfect for him and its something that i've been advocating for what seems like years. The season before last where he scored 25 (?) goals, most of them originated from the right side of the pitch. Completely irrelevant to Liverpool, but i've never understood why Capello has never played Gerrard on the right, instead of the left. It was such an obvious solution during the WC and now.

He gets played on the left because of lack of good left sided wingers/midfielder (A.Johnson aside now) & to accomodate the less versatile Lampard in the middle .
SG doesnt like playing on the right though does he?.

[koppitekop11]

The season before last where he scored 25 (?) goals, most of them originated from the right side of the pitch.

Hmm, the season before last when we finished second he played behind torres, not on the right

[Dr Abismo]

Another great post, Yorky. Really incisive stuff.

Gerrard needs to play where he can do most damage, and we don't have to speculate about that, do we? We saw it clearly enough in the season he scored all those goals with Torres. He's been put back into central midfield to compensate for the loss of both Alonso and Mascherano, both excellent players in my view, and a superb platform from which to release Gerrard forward and wide.

Right now, I'm excited by the Miereles-Lucas combination. It looks like it's clicked. We finally look capabe of getting over the loss of Alonso and Masch. And again, it should release Gerrard into spaces where he can do most damage.

[Yorkykopite]

Cheers Doc. I know he's your favourite player (along with Willie Stevenson  )

I'm excited by Lucas-Meireles too. I often think in terms of pairs. It's a habit you get into from playing of course. As a centre back I could never be that arsed about who was playing for us up front or on the wings, but was deeply interested in who my fellow defender was. Get that sorted and things would be ok. I know central midfield players often feel the same way about their partner. Full backs and wingers too etc etc. It's probably a bad way of planning - or even assessing - a team, but for me, at least, it's inescapable.

That's why I like the idea of Gerrard on the right, playing in front of Johnson. What you've potentially got with that is one of the great right flanks in world football. Johnson is an awesome footballer in his own right. What would he be like with a player of equal stature in front of him?

So that's two pairings sorted out. The third, for me, would be Torres and Pacheco. Hopefully it will happen one day. If I were picking the team it would happen next week.

Then, so far as the outfield goes we're left with who to pair at centre back and who to play on the left flank. Both big problems for us, though Jamie's forced exclusion might make things a bit clearer over the coming months. 

[Dr Abismo]

..As a centre back I could never be that arsed about who was playing for us up front or on the wings, but was deeply interested in who my fellow defender was. Get that sorted and things would be ok. I know central midfield players often feel the same way about their partner. Full backs and wingers too etc etc. It's probably a bad way of planning - or even assessing - a team, but for me, at least, it's inescapable.

As a striker, I was always interested in who was going to do all the work for me and lay it on a plate so I could have a tap-in and get all the glory.

That's why I like the idea of Gerrard on the right, playing in front of Johnson. What you've potentially got with that is one of the great right flanks in world football. Johnson is an awesome footballer in his own right. What would he be like with a player of equal stature in front of him?

I wouldn't put Johnson in the same class as Gerrard. But you know from various posts on here that I'm a big Johnson fan, and consider him much maligned even as a defender. I've also thought for a long time that Gerrard could have been the best right back we've ever seen - but he's just too good further forward to play there! But on your analysis, we have to doubt that Gerrard would have the discipline to cover for Johnson when Johnson overlaps him.

[OLDIE]

As a striker, I was always interested in who was going to do all the work for me and lay it on a plate so I could have a tap-in and get all the glory.

Is that you Nando ?

[Chakan]

Is that you Nando ?

Ah some of those great Torres Tap ins.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4jRMnBjcZLE?fs=1&amp;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/4jRMnBjcZLE?fs=1&amp;</a>

[OLDIE]

Ah some of those great Torres Tap ins.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/nbE_PmkDiuc?fs=1&amp;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/nbE_PmkDiuc?fs=1&amp;</a>

Exhibit 1 your honour, humour bypass !

[Chakan]

Exhibit 1 your honour, humour bypass !

Posted the wrong video

Changed it

[OLDIE]

Posted the wrong video

Changed it

 

[Chakan]

Although there are some great goals in the other one

[OLDIE]

Although there are some great goals in the other one

ALL Liverpool goals are great !

[scatman]

John Henry, can you hire someone who understand the reasoning behind good posts such as this from Yorky.

Gerrard and Johnson on the right would be absolutely brilliant. Gerrard also has the legs to cover back for Johnson if required, I can just see Stevie pretneding to cross from deep than overlapped by Johnno who takes on a few players before delivering a cross.

Ala Beckham and Neville did for the dirty scum but better

[Dr Abismo]

Is that you Nando ?

Caramba! Calado!!

[Tweekage]

Good post, but I disagree with the part about Lucas/Meireles being better than Masch.  The rest is spot-on though.

[Another Red]

Great post.

There's definitely some truth in the statement about Lucas-Meireles being more effective than Mascherano-Lucas. It's not that Mascherano is an inferior player, it just didn't work well consistently.

A lot of people seem to think the Gerrard-Torres partnership is dead and buried. I disagree, I think that it can still be as effective as it was with the right midfield mix behind it. i.e. Lucas-Meireles.

While we're on "couples", the Kuyt-Johnson partnership worked very well early last season. I really think that most of our problems last season stemmed from our inability to find the right centre mid combination.

When Gerrard returns from injury, I'd like to see this:

                                  Reina

Johnson       Kyrgiakos         Skrtel             ?

                      Meireles        Lucas

Kuyt                         Gerrard                       ?

                                Torres

Our left hand side is still a mystery to me.

[Red number seven]

Great article. Absolutely on the money.

Agree with every single word, including the Lucas/Meireles/Mascherano bit which I suspect is meant to be slighty controversial, but both are technically much, much superior.

Gerrard can play centre mid, he's very good there. But he shouldn't.

[Valery_Karpin]

But on your analysis, we have to doubt that Gerrard would have the discipline to cover for Johnson when Johnson overlaps him.

Get a 'proper' midfielder to do that. Inter shown the perfect way to cover full backs; play three in midfield, with one of them pulling out wide to cover the marauding full back. Zanetti was the one who covered for Maicon, in spite of the apparent defensive discipline from Eto'o (he never filled Maicon's position, just battled in front of him at the Camp Nou). If we still had Masch here, he'd have been perfect for it, having played at right back quite a bit in his time here, but he's gone and we haven't got a player near his ability in our midfield. Still, the point still stands, if Gerrard plays out wide, then bring across a midfielder to cover Glen's advances instead of Gerrard.

[Chivasino]

Boss OP and I couldn't agree more. Superb.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Excellent article from Zonal Marking which is highly relevant to this Gerrard debate, in the hole or on the right?  Both!

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/12/03/introducing-the-central-winger/

[Corkboy]

Excellent article from Zonal Marking which is highly relevant to this Gerrard debate, in the hole or on the right?  Both!

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/12/03/introducing-the-central-winger/

Very good, and spot on about Ozil et al, they drift where they want. I played in defence all my life but lately in a few (rare) 11 a side games, I've started in the Ozil position in a 4 2 3 1. I quickly abandoned that position to drift looking for the ball and then ended up staying out on the flanks as I didn't have the energy to get back. Ozil clearly does a fuck load of running!

[Ryan M]

Excellent article from Zonal Marking which is highly relevant to this Gerrard debate, in the hole or on the right?  Both!

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/12/03/introducing-the-central-winger/

Enjoyed that read. However I still prefer the 'Number 10' to be a role played central. I understand the need for looking for space, usually found in the width sector of the pitch. However Benitez's idea with Gerrard and Aquilani would have been interesting after last seasons blighted with injuries. Rotating the two constantly would have left opposition defenders, in theory, bemused. Really depends on the individuals attribute whether success comes from the wings. Would be interesting to read other articles regarding formation issues.

[danny boy the red]

I thought David Prentice would know better,

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/12/10/dave-prentice-liverpool-fc-s-fernando-torres-leads-a-new-trend-of-modern-football-dads-100252-27801089/4/


Steven Gerrard will be available for selection very soon after injury and, like Kevin Sheedy before him, when the Liverpool captain is fit he plays.

There is a compromise.

If Gerrard was used as an auxiliary striker behind Fernando Torres, in the role he has performed so magnificently for much of Torres’ time at Liverpool, Lucas and Meireles could continue in the centre.

Of course he could, but he shouldn’t.

Steven Gerrard is too good, too influential and too valuable to Liverpool’s cause to be a compromise option. At this stage of his career he needs to be played regularly and consistently in his best position – and that’s central midfield.

Unfortunately that means someone will have to make way.

Kevin Richardson was famously dropped in the run-in to Everton’s 1984/85 title winning season after scoring both goals in a crucial 2-1 win at Southampton.

And the same scenario should unfold at Anfield.

Roy Hodgson will probably deliver the words more sensitively than Sir Alan Sugar would, but the message should remain the same: “Lucas Leiva – you’re dropped!”


Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/12/10/dave-prentice-liverpool-fc-s-fernando-torres-leads-a-new-trend-of-modern-football-dads-100252-27801089/4/#ixzz17hV3JwvG

[The 5th Benitle]

I thought David Prentice would know better,

Idiocy. Lunacy. Why say he has performed the auxiliary role excellently and then dismiss it? Why not mention a free role nominally starting from the right with him and Maxi interchanging? Why single out Lucas to be dropped? Why not explain why Gerrard should play CM with a reason more credible than 'he wants to play there' or 'he's Steven Gerrard', both of which are implied?

Silly, silly article.

[xerxes1]

Idiocy. Lunacy. Why say he has performed the auxiliary role excellently and then dismiss it? Why not mention a free role nominally starting from the right with him and Maxi interchanging? Why single out Lucas to be dropped? Why not explain why Gerrard should play CM with a reason more credible than 'he wants to play there' or 'he's Steven Gerrard', both of which are implied?Silly, silly article.

I agree. And against The Toon, retaining Raul/Lucas and playing Gerrard off Torres makes much sense.