Author Topic: Thank you Guardian.  (Read 51856 times)

Offline hollger

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #280 on: March 6, 2012, 12:54:32 PM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/29/pepe-reina-race-row-tv-advert?INTCMP=SRCH

I think this was the final straw for me. It even has the "negrito" quote in it. It's gone to shite.

I never read the paper (any paper, actually) anyway but when I saw this article linked from the BBC when they had the "story" too, I did check it out. And I too saw "negrito".

It was then I closed the browser and haven't thought of going back there since. For someone to comment on something for me they need to at least, at a very minimum, have read up on it. Done the basic research. Sadly this is just another shining example of the absolutely incompetent fuckwits we have as journalists in this country.

Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #281 on: March 6, 2012, 02:45:32 PM »

Can't stand the sight of them now, a ship full of shithouses.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline mat106

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #282 on: March 6, 2012, 02:49:03 PM »
Used to be my paper of choice but it's generally gone downhill in the past 6 months or so

Offline Lofty Ambitions

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #283 on: March 6, 2012, 02:58:48 PM »
Thank you Guardian for saving me hours of time per week I used to spend reading shit sport sections. No more. And I'm not coming back.

There's quite a few great footy blogs worth following instead as I have found out.

So thank you again. :wave
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Offline stevedo

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #284 on: March 6, 2012, 03:10:28 PM »
Used to be my paper of choice but it's generally gone downhill in the past 6 months or so
Slightly off topic but as mentioned by siannn etc the non football parts are excellent, esp the politics/NHS/Leveson live blogs.

Offline Percito

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #285 on: March 6, 2012, 03:20:37 PM »
Slightly off topic but as mentioned by siannn etc the non football parts are excellent, esp the politics/NHS/Leveson live blogs.

Even the non-footballing parts are now a dribbling morass of political correctness, identity politics, victim culture and caterwauling, with zero of the intelligent economic analysis that one might expect from a 'highbrow' leftist publication.

Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #286 on: March 6, 2012, 03:21:15 PM »
Slightly off topic but as mentioned by siannn etc the non football parts are excellent, esp the politics/NHS/Leveson live blogs.

Whoop de doo.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I'll never forget how a discussion on their Comment Is Free site censored a perfectly reasonable post by the fella who composed those 'Churnalism' blog articles on the Suarez affair.

Comment Is Free my arse - frothing with groupthink and sheep more like. Not just in football, on any subject.

Don't romanticise them.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Percito

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #287 on: March 6, 2012, 03:24:56 PM »
Whoop de doo.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I'll never forget how a discussion on their Comment Is Free site censored a perfectly reasonable post by the fella who composed those 'Churnalism' blog articles on the Suarez affair.

Comment Is Free my arse - frothing with groupthink and sheep more like. Not just in football, on any subject.

Don't romanticise them.

There should be a 'like' button on here for posts like this.

Offline stevedo

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #288 on: March 6, 2012, 03:25:00 PM »
Even the non-footballing parts are now a dribbling morass of political correctness, identity politics, victim culture and caterwauling, with zero of the intelligent economic analysis that one might expect from a 'highbrow' leftist publication.
I will agree to disagree and leave it there.

Whoop de doo.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I'll never forget how a discussion on their Comment Is Free site censored a perfectly reasonable post by the fella who composed those 'Churnalism' blog articles on the Suarez affair.

Comment Is Free my arse - frothing with groupthink and sheep more like. Not just in football, on any subject.

Don't romanticise them.



And there.

Offline Jellies

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #289 on: March 6, 2012, 03:29:25 PM »
Still enjoy their featured stories and world news. Their sports section is quite simply a lying and biased rag in a disguise.
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Offline USC19Babel

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #290 on: March 6, 2012, 03:33:41 PM »
I listen to the football weekly podcast and like most of the fellows that are usually on there—usually they're not regular writers for the Guardian though, so that may say something.

They do have a tendency to run with whatever negative story is fashionable at the moment (Arsenal's implosion, Suarez debacle, AVB) almost to the point of hyperbole

Offline SalisburyRed

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #291 on: March 6, 2012, 04:02:37 PM »
I actually like quite a few of the Guardian's football writers, although a fair number of those whose work I'll read regularly are freelancers (Sid Lowe, Raphael Honigstein, Michael Cox etc.).

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #292 on: March 6, 2012, 04:19:52 PM »
Whoop de doo.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I'll never forget how a discussion on their Comment Is Free site censored a perfectly reasonable post by the fella who composed those 'Churnalism' blog articles on the Suarez affair.

Comment Is Free my arse - frothing with groupthink and sheep more like. Not just in football, on any subject.

Don't romanticise them.

Can't base your whole view of the paper on the sports section. It's not something they've ever made a priority of the way a lot of tabloids do. Also the "comment is free" section doesn't reflect the work done by the real core of the paper, the only genuine investigative reporting in the country is done by the Guardian these days.

If not for the Guardian, the News of the World would still be in print, and Murdoch wouldn't be getting the rollicking he is from all directions. Andy Coulson, former editor of the Sun, would still be working at 10 Downing Street. To most Liverpool supporters, that alone is far more important than how they choose to report football.

And their coverage of the Hicks - RBS case was untouchable.

Of course you don't have to read it, but writing off the whole paper on the basis of a few nobs in the sport department is just daft.
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Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #293 on: March 6, 2012, 04:32:39 PM »

A bracing piece of hagiography. But thats what it is, hagiography.

If it wasn't for the tenacious investigative journalism of the Daily Telegraph the expenses scandal at Westminster wouldn't have been uncovered, still isn't daft to feel disdain for it in the round.



"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #294 on: March 6, 2012, 04:37:49 PM »
A bracing piece of hagiography. But thats what it is, hagiography.

If it wasn't for the tenacious investigative journalism of the Daily Telegraph the expenses scandal at Westminster wouldn't have been uncovered, still isn't daft to feel disdain for it in the round.

Couldn't really give a toss about the expenses scandal though, the fall of Murdoch should mean more to you than that. And while the Telegraph definitely isn't my favourite paper, I wouldn't say it's shite, far from it.
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Offline MichaelA

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #295 on: March 6, 2012, 04:41:55 PM »
The Manchester Guardian.

Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #296 on: March 6, 2012, 04:43:21 PM »
Couldn't really give a toss about the expenses scandal though

You should when you claim that the Guardian is the only newspaper that carries out investigative journalism in Britain holding the powerful to account giving to them special claims of exceptionalism in an extraordinary piece of hyperbole. And that is just off the top of my head.

The Guardian played a part in the downfall of the News of the World no doubt but it was a collective effort and sterling work was done all round by different media and politicians. Good for them. As I said, even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.
"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline dernaroy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #297 on: March 6, 2012, 04:45:45 PM »
The Guardian has taken a serious nose dive in terms of standards in their football reporting over the last 6-9 months, most notably highlighted by the Suarez incident. I’m incredibly disappointed in them as this would have been my main source for news and commentary.

Absolutely everything they did in relation to the Suarez issue had zero regard for facts or intelligent analysis. In fact at the very beginning of the debacle they ran a poll asking readers if Evra should be banned were his claims of racist abuse to be found unproven. Even though I was furious with Evra at the time I thought this was a bit far and not something a respected newspaper should be encouraging. They came in for a lot of abuse over it and I think they quickly realised it was a mistake. Their subsequent stance towards everything Suarez was completely one-sided and it may be possible that part of this was an attempt to over-compensate for their earlier poor judgement.

My reasoning on why their standards have slipped in the football section so much is this: If you look on the home page of the News section you will see down the bottom it displays the the top 5 most viewed stories. Number 1 on this list is almost always a football story (unless something extraordinary has happened in the news that day). In fact it is not unusual to see 3 or 4 of the top 5 stories being football stories. My theory is that the Guardian powers that be, under increasing financial pressure, have realised that it is the football stories which sell advertising. Therefore, they’ve allowed the standards in that section to fall sharply into a sensationalist tabloid style so as to attract larger numbers. In a sense they’ve sacrificed principles and standards in the football section so they can afford to uphold the same standards in the news section and the rest of the paper – because lets face it, is football really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things (from the Guardians’ point of view)?
« Last Edit: March 6, 2012, 04:50:03 PM by dernaroy »
i admireyour optimism but if you honestly believe we will finish even in the top 6 this year , then you my friend (im at pains to say this ) are deluded.

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #298 on: March 6, 2012, 04:45:58 PM »
You should when you claim that the Guardian is the only newspaper that carries out investigative journalism in Britain holding the powerful to account giving to them special claims of exceptionalism in an extraordinary piece of hyperbole. And that is just off the top of my head.

Fair point.

Quote
The Guardian played a part in the downfall of the News of the World no doubt but it was a collective effort and sterling work was done all round by different media and politicians. Good for them. As I said, even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.

No, you're just looking at three pages of a daily newspaper and declaring the whole thing broken, if anything it's the opposite of the "broken clock" analogy.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #299 on: March 6, 2012, 04:47:25 PM »
The Guardian has taken a serious nose dive in terms of standards in their football reporting over the last 6-9 months, most notably highlighted by the Suarez incident. I’m incredibly disappointed in them as this would have been my main source for news and commentary.

Absolutely everything they did in relation to the Suarez issue had zero regard for facts or intelligent analysis. In fact at the very beginning of the debacle they ran a poll asking readers if Evra should be banned were his claims of racist abuse to be found unproven. Even though I was furious with Evra at the time I thought this was a bit far and not something a respected newspaper should be encouraging. They came in for a lot of abuse over it and I think they quickly realised it was a mistake. Their subsequent stance towards everything Suarez was completely one-sided and it may be possible that part of this was an attempt to over-compensate for their earlier poor judgement.

Mr reasoning on why their standards have slipped in the football section so much is this: If you look on the home page of the News section you will see down the bottom it displays the the top 5 most viewed stories. Number 1 on this list is almost always a football story (unless something extraordinary has happened in the news that day). In fact it is not unusual to see 3 or 4 of the top 5 stories being football stories. My theory is that the Guardian powers that be, under increasing financial pressure, have realised that it is the football stories which sell advertising. Therefore, they’ve allowed the standards in that section to fall sharply into a sensationalist tabloid style so as to attract larger numbers. In a sense they’ve sacrificed principles and standards in the football section so they can afford to uphold the same standards in the news section and the rest of the paper – because lets face it, is football really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things (from the Guardians’ point of view)?

Good point. A lot of the people who read the sports section, especially online, probably don't read the rest of the paper.
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Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #300 on: March 6, 2012, 04:51:20 PM »
No, you're just looking at three pages of a daily newspaper and declaring the whole thing broken, if anything it's the opposite of the "broken clock" analogy.

Its a great analogy.

The truth is, I'm extending the same scepticism to it as I extend to all media organisations regardless of whatever tribal political affiliations may be evoked by occasional political agreement. I'm disregarding the notion of its exceptionalism, something that its partisans tend to (daftly) overblow.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline hassinator

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #301 on: March 6, 2012, 04:57:17 PM »
I'd rather enjoy that myself, actually. But then, where would all the Oxbridge English Literature graduates go to work? The City is still laying people off faster than Big Andy Carroll downs pints on a Saturday evening...

'more scenes from the class struggle' - right on comrade.

i'm into the guardian.  i hope - but doubt - rusbridger gets a knighthood for proving the collusion of the state; the police and the press.

while their staff football writers annoy me they offer an excellent newspaper free which means i don't have to give any more money to murdoch.

to be fair most domestic football writers are irritating and while taylor is a bell he's not that mega-c*nt martin samuel.

all in all i don't think there's much to complain about particularly at this price point.

Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #302 on: March 6, 2012, 05:03:36 PM »
to be fair most domestic football writers are irritating and while taylor is a bell he's not that mega-c*nt martin samuel.

After the vile piece he wrote on Kenny he's on a level with that Bluto c*nt.

Good point about it being free though - the benefits of being subsidised by Auto Trader to the tune of tens of millions in losses every year! Salute to them.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #303 on: March 6, 2012, 05:15:47 PM »
Its a great analogy.

It's a great analogy, but it doesn't fit.

It implies that the vast majority of what the paper prints is nonsense, and when they do get something right it is purely by chance. That's unfair and, as I said, daft. There's a world of difference between healthy scepticism and the blanket denial of everything that your analogy suggests.
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Offline hassinator

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #304 on: March 6, 2012, 05:16:46 PM »
After the vile piece he wrote on Kenny he's on a level with that Bluto c*nt.

Good point about it being free though - the benefits of being subsidised by Auto Trader to the tune of tens of millions in losses every year! Salute to them.



fair.  he is a c*nt.  i also think he relishes us being angry with him.  he's very determined to purge any 'comment is free' that disagrees with him.

stalin vibes.

still overall i like the paper even if the times has paid for most of the good (non-football) columnists to hide behind their paywall.

Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #305 on: March 6, 2012, 05:18:13 PM »
It's a great analogy, but it doesn't fit.

It implies that the vast majority of what the paper prints is nonsense, and when they do get something right it is purely by chance. That's unfair and, as I said, daft. There's a world of difference between healthy scepticism and the blanket denial of everything that your analogy suggests.

Daft is claiming supernatural moral exceptionalism for it in the first place. The analogy is local and expresses a simple truth in that light.


"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #306 on: March 6, 2012, 05:20:00 PM »
You should when you claim that the Guardian is the only newspaper that carries out investigative journalism in Britain holding the powerful to account giving to them special claims of exceptionalism in an extraordinary piece of hyperbole. And that is just off the top of my head.

The Guardian played a part in the downfall of the News of the World no doubt but it was a collective effort and sterling work was done all round by different media and politicians. Good for them. As I said, even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.
No, it didn't 'play a part'. Not at all. The whole thing started off from a book written by Nick Davies, one of their principle journalists. They gave him a lot of help and support in creating that book, a lot of co-operation too, even though a whole chapter of it is very critical of the Guardian itself. The whole hacking investigation was done by a team headed by Davies, employed, funded, supported, published, checked and followed up by the Guardian. It's about the only piece of investigative journalism I can think of for a very long time that actually took aim at the media itself. I don't think any other paper would fund such an investigation - the media, as a rule, does not investigate itself, and regardless of football coverage the Guardian deserves credit for that.

As an investigation it will have required a lot of genuine work, proper collecting of sources, wading through tons of data which won't all have been on the record, talking to journalists and private investigators and corroborating that information, all the effort that goes into fact checking it, making it watertight in the knowledge that any mistakes would have brought serious, serious legal action from extremely wealthy papers whose resources utterly dwarf the Guardian's. Not to mention that the whole case was extremely 'unsafe', namely picking on other media is not an easy way to get published, it's likely to be met with counter-claims and serious aggression.

That's not to belittle the Telegraph's work at all, credit to them - but in comparison to the Murdoch press, and the press in general, politicians are a very soft target. More to the point most of the expenses stuff will have been a matter of public record - yes, still a lot of data crunching but all of it from publicly available sources - electoral registers, the register of interests, maybe talking to family, friends, neighbours etc who would all have been easier to find, and against targets who can't afford to throw lawyers at you in the way Murdoch can.

It remains the paper most likely to give you 'the truth'. As a rule, it receives among the fewest complaints to the PCC, utterly dwarfed in terms of complaints by the Murdoch stable, which are in turn dwarfed in terms of complaints by the leading peddler of untruth and distortion in Britain - The Daily Mail, and while it's sports section is well worthy of contempt in my view - it's a total betrayal of what the paper is supposed to stand for, and it's absurd that they don't hold the whole section to the kind of standard that David Conn sets - the investigation into phone hacking deserves a lot better than to be damned with faint praise, and a suggestion that plenty of other papers are doing that kind of thing because they simply aren't, no other paper would have taken on such an investigation, and no other paper has come out with something like this for a long time. One paper effectively bringing down another paper through investigative journalism is pretty much unheard of, certainly in this country, as far as I know. Let alone a title as huge and profitable and powerfully backed as the NOTW.

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #307 on: March 6, 2012, 05:24:45 PM »
Daft is claiming supernatural moral exceptionalism for it in the first place. The analogy is local and expresses a simple truth in that light.

Presumably you think this is good writing? You're on a football forum, not defending a PhD thesis. It doesn't help your case anyway.

The analogy fails. The implication is patently false.

Unless you can demonstrate that most of what appears in the paper is nonsense and anything accurate is only arrived at by chance then you are very clearly wrong.
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Offline stevedo

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #308 on: March 6, 2012, 05:25:07 PM »

i'm into the guardian.  i hope - but doubt - rusbridger gets a knighthood for proving the collusion of the state; the police and the press.

This is the reason its worth reading, esp online. Great reporting/blogging from the likes of Nick Davies, Andrew Sparrow, Poly Curtis, make it a good NEWS paper. Sportswise, meh.


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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #309 on: March 6, 2012, 05:25:23 PM »
Much of the criticism directed towards the Guardian seems to be at its football coverage, and in particular at its handling of the Suarez affair. Is it possible we're all being a bit touchy and parochial? Do their football writers churn out biased crap about other clubs?

Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #310 on: March 6, 2012, 05:26:30 PM »

A golden star for their efforts on that matter! Good for them.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #311 on: March 6, 2012, 05:26:55 PM »
Is it possible we're all being a bit touchy and parochial?

Yes of course, what else is there.
"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #312 on: March 6, 2012, 05:29:16 PM »
If you want to see examples of really poor journalism, I'd strongly recommend this:

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/
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Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #313 on: March 6, 2012, 05:31:01 PM »
It doesn't help your case anyway.

Unless you can demonstrate that most of what appears in the paper is nonsense and anything accurate is only arrived at by chance then you are very clearly wrong.

I'm putting the case for the prosecution together as I speak for deposition in the High Court right now.

Its shorthand for saying that whatever good exists in a media organisation doesn’t mean it is exceptional or that there is an obligation to defer to its supposed exceptionalism (the kind you evangelised for it), just because some things it says or does you find agreement with.


"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #314 on: March 6, 2012, 05:31:43 PM »
If you want to see examples of really poor journalism, I'd strongly recommend this:

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/


Cheers mate. I had no idea that tabloids were occasionally objectionable.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline stevedo

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #315 on: March 6, 2012, 05:33:21 PM »
A golden star for their efforts on that matter! Good for them.
Or an award.
 http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/nick-davies-wins-paul-foot-award-for-phone-hacking-investigation/s2/a548087/


 Guardian journalist Nick Davies has won the Paul Foot Award for 2011 in recognition of his investigation into the phone-hacking scandal.

Davies was announced as the winner at a ceremony held at the British Academy of Film and Television Arts headquarters in London.

The award was established by Private Eye and the Guardian in memory of campaigning journalist Paul Foot, who died in 2004.

It recognises the best investigative journalism, in this case based on work published in 2011.

This is one of a number of awards for Davies in relation to his investigations into phone hacking, with the award organisers having said that last year marked "the turning point with explosive revelations, the fallout from which continues across politics and the media".

In November Davies was named journalist of the year at the Foreign Press Association Media Awards 2011 and was also given the Frontline Club award in recognition of his phone-hacking investigation.

Commenting on Davies' win today, Private Eye editor Ian Hislop said in a release: "At a time when some commentators are suggesting that the entire press has lost its way, the shortlist for this award clearly demonstrates that the spirit of Foot's style of journalism is alive, well and kicking the people who matter.

"Nick Davies is a thoroughly deserving winner of this year's Paul Foot Award for an outstanding piece of work that has produced extraordinary results.

"This award is recognition of the cheering truth that the best journalism exposed the worst".

Offline Stussy

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"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #317 on: March 6, 2012, 05:41:13 PM »
I'm putting the case for the prosecution together as I speak for deposition in the High Court right now.

Its shorthand for saying that whatever good exists in a media organisation doesn’t mean it is exceptional or that there is an obligation to defer to its supposed exceptionalism (the kind you evangelised for it), just because some things it says or does you find agreement with.

No it's not.

A broken clock face is motionless. Looking at it, the chances are that the time it appears to tell will be wrong. Twice a day, if you happen to be looking at the right moment, the clock gives the right time, as a matter of course. That is what that analogy represents. Total uselessness with random, rare, examples of accuracy due purely to chance. That is what you are accusing the Guardian of, on the basis of a few things published from time to time in the football section, a very small, and editorially unrepresentative part of the paper.

If they ever published a piece as poorly considered as that argument, they would rightly be slated for it.

As for its exceptionalism, that has been excellently covered by hesbighesred. The story in question achieved something that thousands of Liverpool supporting campaigners could only dream of; closing the News of the World and cutting Murdoch's influence in general down to size.

As I say, you don't have to read it, but when you look at the general standards of the industry, aiming that sort of overblown criticism specifically at the Guardian of all papers is just silly.
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Abolish FIFA
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Offline Stussy

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #318 on: March 6, 2012, 05:42:02 PM »
No it's not.

Yes it is!

In all seriousness mate, I know you love the newspaper, but I'l lash out and call them a bunch of shithouses because of their editorial line without incurring a fatwa from a true Guardian believer, because whatever good articles they write about from time to time, I don't have to defer to them as a whole, in my raw nerved Red way. Agreed? They're not the bloody messiah!

« Last Edit: March 6, 2012, 05:44:29 PM by Stussy »
"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Thank you Guardian.
« Reply #319 on: March 6, 2012, 05:42:48 PM »
Yes it is!

My dad's bigger than your dad.
Fuck the Daily Mail.
Abolish FIFA
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