Author Topic: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices  (Read 51117 times)

Offline Dave_W

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The following article was written by Damian Kavanagh and published on http://www.liverpoolbanter.co.uk - it is reposted here with Damian's permission.


I come from the generation of fans who have crossed over from the days of the old Football League with its terraces and poor conditions to today's media darling that is the Premier League with its modern stadia.

In 1986 I bought my first season ticket. It was an adult ticket for the old standing Kop. It cost me £45. In the preceding 1985/6 season Kop matches cost adults £2.50 each, the Main Stand wing section cost £3.50 and the Kemlyn Road cost £5.00 per match.


This summer I've paid the online discount price of £680 for a seat in the place I used to stand. This season sees face value tickets at Anfield now costing up to £45 each for 'category A' matches, the same price as the entire cost of my season ticket 25 seasons ago... and we're not even the dearest team in the League to watch!

Enough is enough, its time to stop this disgraceful exploitation of the fans, in truth it has been time to do something about this for years. It's the great unsaid about our national sport while the media hype surrounding the game convinces most people about how lucky we are to have "the best league in the world".

I happen to support Liverpool. If my family was from another place then we'd support somebody else. I am listing my own example knowing that fans of other teams can add their own twist to this, from their own perspective. I do of course definitely blame the Reds for their part in the cost of Anfield tickets, it's their stadium after all but I can't blame just my own team for it, more the Premier League as a whole with all of it's teams taking at least some share of accountability and I'll explain why... If Liverpool took their own admirable moral stance and kept ticket prices down unilaterally then they'd fall financially and then competitively behind their rivals, such is the greed for success culture that they're all playing in. The teams are all terrified of each other, worried about losing their place behind a rival in the race for Europe or for a place in the Premier League itself such is the financial difference granted to each league placing and the sponsorship that rewards it.

Prices have increased steadily above the rate of inflation year upon year since the inception of the Premier League. Much has changed of course in following our national game since 1986, much for the better it must be said... but also some for the worse.

In common with plenty of my mates I can honestly say I have been there seen it and done it as a fan, so we know what we're talking about... but where are we ever given a voice on matters affecting the game and more importantly affecting us directly?

I'm not saying that we should run the sport from our seats in the stands or from in the alehouse after the match, what I can state as fact though is that we are the experts in supporting the teams and are a vital ingredient for the sport so we should have some sort of say.

We are told periodically how valuable we are, how unique we are. Imagine those great European nights shown on live TV without us playing our full part... they wouldn't be anywhere near as much of an exciting proposition for the sponsors would they?

Let's cut to the chase and get a couple of excuses for ticket pricing policy out of the way before I go on:

* I know that standing up was cheaper than sitting down and I'll even assume a price of the most expensive seats from 1986, which was exactly double the cost of standing up... so that would make the equivalent cost of a season ticket for the Kemlyn Road in 1986 as £90

* Lets say that the clubs need to make the same money over the course of a season from the current 19 Premier League matches that they did from the days of the Football League's 21 matches (very debatable I know, but lets be generous and let them have that so the cost is spread for the season as a whole)


With the above two conditions granted I can calculate what the £90 season ticket in 1986 is worth in today's prices by putting it against the retail price index... it works out as £206.25. That's a staggeringly low amount compared to what we pay now. It means at Anfield we're paying either £680 or £732 this season for a seat that would work out as just less than £11.00 per match in real terms based on 1986 prices!

It almost defies belief doesn't it? It's crept up on us year by year but the cost is reaching breaking point now and I can see a reduction in attendances coming very soon. There's an advert on the radio out at the moment from a channel that that says remember when we could all afford to go to the match? Well it's now cheaper to watch it with us instead!

I could of course just vote with my feet, say I'm not paying that much and go and do something else but that is not only morally wrong but would entirely miss the point. The whole essence of being a supporter like me and my mates, like those who follow all the other teams with equal love and fervour is that it involves a life's journey. I take my lad and am "lucky" enough most of the time to get adult/child tickets but there is no guarantee with that and I'm sometimes faced with the cost of two adult tickets! My dad followed the team before us, so did my granddad...and my great-granddad. It's a passion we've shared through the good times and bad, through our triumphs and tragedies. It's our team.

Lord Justice Taylor's Report on the Hillsborough Disaster made 76 recommendations with the main focus being his recommendation for all-seater stadia. The authorities and football clubs in this country jumped at this opportunity, championing the new blue-print for football but there was a deafening silence on what Taylor had added, when he stated that in going to all-seater stadia, the result should not be increases in ticket prices that takes the game away from its traditional supporters. He quoted £6 I think as his recommended price for a seat. Taylor was referring to the legions of fans from a century of supporting their teams through thick and (mostly) thin, whose passion for the sport made it what it is today; the national game, the world's game. He meant the likes of me and my mates, those of us who had survived the very disaster he was reporting on.

I've heard slick football executives wax lyrical about the Premier League and all its qualities and to be fair there are many but while they'll happily quote and highlight the rare good deal for the sake of argument - and not what the vast majority of seats regularly cost - ticket pricing is something they don't like to be drawn on or talk about.

If there are any excuses about the costs of tickets let's be clear on a couple of points:

* attendances since 1986 have increased and now there is no standing so that means that all of the punters are paying the same higher level of price for their tickets, in the old days maybe half the ground was paying a lesser price for standing up but now the whole ground all pay what would have been the higher seat price

* sponsorship money has come into the game on a level that could never previously have been imagined in 1986. I don't think anybody could've believed at the time the money that would flood into the sport, it's a whole world away from where we were back then

* the major factor is the increase in player power and the knock-on effect from the Bosman ruling but if the clubs collectively charged less for tickets, they could still afford to attract and make very rich young men out of very good players


This means that if the game was run properly in this country - I suppose I should say if it was run even remotely fairly - then this massive financial cake that we've got in football now - gigantic compared to what it was in 1986 - has more than enough to go around for everybody. So guess who gets bigger slices of this cake? Players? Yes. Agents? Yes. Clubs? Yes. The Premier League? Yes. Supporters? No!

I could understand an increase over time above living costs to account for improved facilities and stewarding, more medical staff at clubs as players' fitness and conditioning improves etc but it would be insulting our intelligence to say that ticket prices need to be at this extortionate level to cover them. If ticket costs had been kept in check the clubs would still run, there would still be a high-profile and successful league to enjoy. Prices are nowhere near as dear in other major European leagues and they still thrive; neither of last season's Champions League finalists came from England, nor did the previous seasons' winners. Germany has the lowest ticket prices and the highest average attendance of Europe's five biggest leagues. Last season a seat on Borussia Dortmund's equivalent to the Kop had an average price of around £13 (directly comparable to 1986 prices) and the cost even includes free rail travel to and from the stadium! From experience I can say that it's a fine stadium, it hosted the 2001 UEFA Cup Final. It's all a question of balance isn't it? I'm not suggesting that I should turn up next season and instantly expect to pay £30 less for each of my match tickets but surely it can be recognised that we're paying far too much and it needs sorting out.

If the clubs did cut their cloth smaller regarding players' wages you never know, we might even have more home-grown players in the Premier League as an added benefit. It's not even as though the massive hike in ticket prices has been filtered down to benefit grassroots football in this country and to help improve the performance of the national team over the long term is it? The problem is that the various parties like the clubs, players and agents etc all act independently for their own interests which has not been for the good of the game. There are other ills with the status quo like how clubs are overspending to the point where their very future existence could be at risk but this is an argument against Premier League ticket prices so I'll stick to that here.

I've got plenty of friends who I could name who've been priced out of going the match during these past 25 seasons. An important part of their lives has been moved away from them. Our loyalty as fans has been taken for granted. Our love for our teams, their traditions, the friendships built up and what our communities have meant to us has been exploited and we're paying through the nose.

How long can I afford to keep it going? Shouldn't the average working man be able to afford to go and take his lad to watch their team every other week?

Like anything in life, today's children are the future. There is now a generation of people who've been priced out of being supporters because we're talking about almost a £100 day out for a "dad and lad". There's a whole culture of young fans not going to the matches because of the cost. The Premier League's average supporter age increases each year. We've got kids growing up believing satellite television is what football is all about and people who think a great atmosphere is when noise levels increase down the local pub when the big game is shown in there!

It's time we got together across the clubs and concentrated on what we have in common, what brings us together and to remember that we all need each other to get the best out of each other. It's time for some kind of official representation, time the Premier League put on the agenda ticket price reductions. The only thing is, with the way greed has steadily become part of the game over time it's hard to see a way out of the current state we're in... but we can't afford to just shrug our shoulders and give up.

The most likely outcome is that attendances will fall in the future and that clubs will then have to try to do something about the mess that's left over but by then it might be too late for many supporters who've been pushed too far away from the game to ever come back... and just as likely, too late for many clubs who will go bust if they all carry on at this rate! Anybody who loves the game wouldn't just wait for the bubble to burst, there's enough interest, passion, money and expertise around to stop the whole thing from imploding in on itself. The massive challenge of going to all-seater stadia was managed, so there can be no excuse for not being able to rectify inflated ticket prices.

It's our game, the supporters' game, why should we let others ruin it for us? I guarantee you, if for just one week all the supporters from the different clubs could get together and make one meaningful protest then we'd see some swift movement towards fairer prices. Trusting those with influence running the game to consider the fans hasn't worked for us.

The problem is of course that such is football rivalry, there are fans who'll say their own club couldn't be the problem, that they charge less than others, for example "only" £39 per ticket for 'premium' matches. Then there are others who'll say that their team finishes higher than yours and you only get what you pay for. The masses have fallen victim, inch by inch, to a classic case of divide and conquer. A large section of fans have slowly been coaxed without realising it, into accepting an agenda set by greed. So much so that while you might hear fans complain about their club not having enough money for example to compete with those in the top few places in the Premier League, you'll never hear them also moan about the plight of the other clubs, who are an equal distance below their own club on the money ladder. It's time to recognise we're all getting ripped off and we have got the power to do something about it if only we'd all do it together.

In 1986 the game had many problems and thankfully most of the issues from that time have been cleaned up to a large extent but in doing so, the game has twisted in another direction and lost the plot along the way, hurting its traditional and most reliable and vibrant supporters in the pocket and there's no justification for it. Lord Justice Taylor would have been angry about today's ticket prices and I'm livid about it!

Damian Kavanagh

http://www.liverpoolbanter.co.uk/2010/08/against-modrn-football-a-compl.html

Offline No23isCarragher

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Excellent article. The money culture of the game today has pushed it too far out of reach of many of those upon whom it relies.

I only joined SoS a month or so ago but I imagine ticket pricing is a regular point of discussion at meetings. Has the idea of lobbying alongside other supporter groups and the Football Supporters' Federation to try and get the Premier League to impose a ticket price cap been put forward?
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Offline Al Bol

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Having discussed this many times with my mates before we've come to the conclusion that it works on the "boiling frog principle". That is to say, if you put a frog straight into boiling water it'll jump straight out (whether this is biologically correct or not is unimport: it is the principle at the crux of the matter.  However, put it in tepid water and heat it up gradually and it will stay there, eventually boiling to its death. This is what has happened with Premier League ticket prices. Year by year the average prices has crept up at a level, as stated in the article, above inflation, but lower than that which would stretch the bounds of what is seen as an "affordable" increase. Thus we've got used to paying more and more year on year without realising how extortionate the increases have been.  Only once the frog has been boiled to death (i.e. when the game loses its gloss and attendances drop dramatically as a consequence) will we see a levelling out of prices to a more affordable level for the average fan.

Offline Grobbelrevell

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Ive been talking about this for a good while now. The supporters have been bottom of the list of priorities for the clubs, the authorities and everyone else within football for far too long. You used to hear about supporters that went to every single match every season, home and away, europe included. How many could afford to do that now? Not many I would imagine.

Like the article alludes to however, I believe it would take an organised level of action across the country, a cross section of premier league supporters, and football supporters in general, throughout the leagues, in order to cajole the authorities into even looking at this issue.

Could you imagine United fans joining in any kind of fashion with ours though? Anyone mentioning this as an option in relation the ownership issues was immediately jumped on, which gives you a good idea of the feasibility in real terms. We need to look beyond club rivalries at the bigger picture however, at the fact that we share one thing in common: Our die hard passion for our clubs. OUR clubs. The same clubs that we are being priced out of. We are all in the same position to an extent, throughout the football pyramid and it needs addressing.

"There will always be someone else who will take your ticket".

Thats what we hear whenever anyone mentions an intention to give up their ticket. Sadly, especially for clubs like ours, that is true. For many clubs though, its not. I watched the Sheffield United v QPR game in Saturday and there were an awful lot of empty seats. £25 per ticket there. Over twice the comparable cost of a top flight ticket in the kop according to this article. Its £20 per ticket on average at Peterbrough. In League 1.

I for one would happily side with supporters of any other club that was willing to stand up and speak on behalf of this countries football supporters. The same supporters that are continually ignored and downright exploited.

Great article as well. Summed up many of my feelings very well.
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Offline GODS LEFT BOOT

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very nice piece, i remember a good few years ago when prices started going up some prick talking how we should look at a match ticket as if it were a theatre show / concert etc. There's so much wrong with that i wouldn't know where to start but its easy to see how the game was taken from us when this was their attitude
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 10:17:00 PM by GODS LEFT BOOT »
If my assistant had not signalled a goal, I would have given a penalty and sent off goalkeeper Patr Cheh. he beeped me to signal the foul. The noise from the crowd  stopped me hearing it, I have been involved at places like Barcelona, Ibrox, Old Trafford, Arsenal, but I've never in my life been involved in such an atmosphere. IT WAS INCREDIBLE

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Corporative Customers and TV fees are where the clubs are now, and if you need to see examples of this strategy, check out NFL and MLB for how the TV and high priced Boxes are taking their sports away from the rank and file committed supporter!

First nail in the coffin was when we surrendered our fixtures to TV schedules, I miss the everyone playing on a saturday at 3PM.

We are now Merchandise and Trademark Logo's rather than a football Club sadly!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 12:18:54 PM by geoffstrong »
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A great piece :)


a day where football fans organise themselves for a one-game country-wide mass-boycott of the Premier League - just to show the clubs, tv, media, sponsors and the likes of the FA, Premier League, UEFA and FIFA that we won't be taken for granted any more - just to send them the message and see their reaction...

sadly I don't think it'd ever happen - the naysayers, people too worried about losing their ticket/loyalty/seat, apathy and selfishness would prevail - and the status quo that all those self-important exploitative and corrupt organisations mentioned above - who all make money from us fans - is maintained.

Divide and conquer indeed. :(

 
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We're all domestic extremists, internet terrorists and left-wing agitators now...

Offline caspertheghost

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Cracking post - this is all so very true nowadays   >:(
It makes for a very expensive day out - for me and my 2 would set me back over £140 in tickets (for the Cat As) never mind the fuel there and back, food and trip to the shop, not much change out of £300.

Needless to say I won't/can't make a habit of trying for every home game :(

How do we compare with the rest of the league?
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Offline hixxstar

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Great post......
as much as we would love the games to be free..... or able to watch at a resonable price. .. it's gone... sad to say... but gone
the game has gone for pride... it's now price... balance the books ect...
you want nando.. joe cole.. stevie g... it cost's.... breaks my heart & many others. shanks would be spinning in his grave...
if they let you give blood at the turnstiles...... we'd be in the top area... as i'm sure all real fans of any team would also give.... a plenty
we need a 'fairy' godmother.. someone who has more cash than buisness sense......
i remember jack walker at blackburn..... plenty of cash & a dream... god bless him... he got his dream before he died... cash-he did not care....
football has all but left the 'common' man now....jumpers for goalpost's..... dream on....... dream on..
i love my team with a passion..... it hurt's........ yes it hurt's....god i love my team.... cut me i bleed red.......
sorry if i'm rambling on..... but i'm sure i sing a familiar song.... ..... ... When you walk.... through a storm... hold your head up High...
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Offline jambutty

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Offline DuncMcD

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The impression I have is that a new ground is required not just to get more bums on seats, but moreso to improve and expand the corporate side of things - that's where the club can really make some money.

Well if that is truly the case, why not release a certain % of tickets each game at a cheaper price? Be specifically for kids or schools perhaps. Or maybe bring the prices down for everyone across the board?

I dunno, would it be right to sell our soul to the corporate devil to enable cheaper tickets for the traditional fan?

Offline JohnnoWhite

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very nice piece, i remember a good few years ago when prices started going up some prick talking how we should look at a match ticket as if it were a theatre show / concert etc. There's so much wrong with that i wouldn't know where to start but its easy to see how the game was taken from us when this was there attitude

The article that started this debate was absolutely top drawer. Well done Damian Kavanagh! You've highlighted the heart of what's sick in this big business entertainment medium we ordinary lads used to call football. I'm a 64 year old United fan and I go on about this a lot. We used to get down to the ground on match day and do our queuing to pay our money come Saturday afternoon. None of this getting to the ground at ten to three or worse still, no bleedin' Sky telling the club that the kick-off time's been moved to Monday night and on the first day of the new season too!!!!
The players we were queuing up to watch maybe pulled 3 or 4 times what our weekly wage was back then. They came to the ground on the bus or on pushbikes - not in friggin' Bentleys! They were part of us - many of them fans who'd made it through to wear the shirt and many of 'em from our own streets - not from bleedin' Brazil or Argentina.

It might have pissed down on us as we queued up but it was worth it so we could feel the whole pageantry of the occasion. There was nothing like standing as part of a crowd of 60,000 to watch our heroes. No prawn sandwiches or 3 course meals served back then when football was OUR game. We made do with just a mug of OxO and a meat pie. Those times are all gone and with them many of the very best memories of the wonderful game that used to be ours.

These predatory bastards who spot the main chance riding on the back of our top football clubs arrive, rip off the fans and the best our clubs have to offer when they know Jack shit about our game, our culture or our clubs and care even less - yet they're still allowed in to saddle our great clubs with debt like you wouldn't believe. Disgraceful is what it is and the blame lies with the FA for not having the balls in the first place to slap down the greedy breakaway clubs who wanted more from their own "Premier" League. They've contributed 90% to the shape of our national game yet they Pontius Pilate-like wash their hands of any responsibility for its demise. Sick to the back teeth - what few I've still got !!
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Offline robbohuyton

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There's always Tranmere.

I went to Prenton Park because I fancied a Saturday game the week before the Premier League kicked off. £17 was the cheapest adult ticket.

Offline Grobbelrevell

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Nice post Johnnowhite. Welcome to RAWK  :wave

I was listening to the radio on the way home last night and there was a bit of a debate going on about the decline in value that the domestic cups hold in the view of the top clubs in this country, mainly as a response to Arsene Wengers claims that he would view trophies worth winning as "The Premier League and the Champions League".

Again it got me thinking why this is the case and for me its all linked. Yes the European Cup and the League have always been the big two, but the FA cup, traditionally, held a special place in the hearts of clubs as well as supporters. That has undoubtedly shifted over the past two decades, for clubs especially. And why is that? Simple. Money.

When there are extremely wealthy owners coming into clubs and throwing their money around willy nilly, using our clubs, their communities clubs, as nothing more than millionnaires train sets (and this began long before the arrival of Roman Abramovic, with Jack Walker at Blackburn in the early 90's), and simultaneously you have huge revenue available simply by qualifying for the Champions League, in comparison with comparitively miniscule amounts on offer for even winning the FA Cup, what are clubs attempting to challenge these neavou riche supposed to do? They are obviously going to set their sights on the Champions League at all costs, and frankly, who can blame them. Its that or mid table obscurity for many, hence 4th place having become a major achievement in many a clubs eye - including ours, sadly.

The FA can complain and whine about certain clubs disregard of 'their' cup as much as they like, as they did when Manchester United infamously withdrew a few years ago, but the simple fact is that they have made their bed with their criminal failure to offer the protection and guardianship to the game and the clubs of this country, which essentially is one of their primary duties. A duty that they have seemingly themselves disregarded in favour of the dollar and the hype that surrounds it, coming their way.

They have allowed the continuous influx of foreign money with extremely little in the way of safeguards, as we have found out to our detriment. They have allowed clubs to be saddled with huge debts. They have allowed clubs to become corporate businesses ahead of traditional football clubs with their communities at heart. This, ultimately, is the bottom line and the major contributing factor when it comes to the fall from grace of our domestic cups, inflated ticket prices, hugely bloated transfer fee's and players wages and in turn the depressing seperation of supporters from what were traditionally their clubs.

The FA cup might well still carry significance for many supporters, it does for me, but the fact is that modern day football has no time for the supporters that make it the promoters wet dream that it has become, they care about one thing, and that is the money they can make from the game and from us. The same goes with ticket prices, cup final allocations etc etc.

This will not change until one of two things happen. Either we stand as a collective support in this country and beyond and make it perfectly clear that no longer will we accept being taken for granted, of being the front cover of the clubs latest cup final DVD whilst at the same time being denied a ticket for that same final in favour of corporate dollar. Again, money.

Or, the bottom finally falls out of the game. Chasing the likes of Manchester City and Chelsea, with their ridiculous spending power and the soaring inflation that it creates, in turn placing clubs in a perilous financial position in doing so, forcing clubs into the wall, bringing the game down like the perilously balanced financial house of cards that it is.

I've said it before and ill say it again, I hope that happens and the game - our game, gets the chance to rid itself of the cancerous moneymen that have created the bloated, money hungry, egotistical monster that was once referred to as "the national game".
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 10:14:00 AM by Grobbelrevell »
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Offline torres09

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When I think of modern football it breaks my heart,then it passes, and my blood starts to boil when I think of how money has ruined the game i love.

Good article there.

Offline torres09

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It's got to the point where I imagine us playing in the lower leagues just to escape this corporate madness(but that's not where we belong),just to experience lower ticket prices and even terracing,to stand with my mates and to enjoy a good sing song...because as far as im concerned the culture we grew up with in football is gone and has gave way to some money hungry monster,players on absurd fortunes (I wouln't even call it a wage) and sky fu*k**g sports!

Offline JohnnoWhite

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Nice post Johnnowhite. Welcome to RAWK  :wave

I was listening to the radio on the way home last night and there was a bit of a debate going on about the decline in value that the domestic cups hold in the view of the top clubs in this country, mainly as a response to Arsene Wengers claims that he would view trophies worth winning as "The Premier League and the Champions League".

Again it got me thinking why this is the case and for me its all linked. Yes the European Cup and the League have always been the big two, but the FA cup, traditionally, held a special place in the hearts of clubs as well as supporters. That has undoubtedly shifted over the past two decades, for clubs especially. And why is that? Simple. Money.

When there are extremely wealthy owners coming into clubs and throwing their money around willy nilly, using our clubs, their communities clubs, as nothing more than millionnaires train sets (and this began long before the arrival of Roman Abramovic, with Jack Walker at Blackburn in the early 90's), and simultaneously you have huge revenue available simply by qualifying for the Champions League, in comparison with comparitively miniscule amounts on offer for even winning the FA Cup, what are clubs attempting to challenge these neavou riche supposed to do? They are obviously going to set their sights on the Champions League at all costs, and frankly, who can blame them. Its that or mid table obscurity for many, hence 4th place having become a major achievement in many a clubs eye - including ours, sadly.

The FA can complain and whine about certain clubs disregard of 'their' cup as much as they like, as they did when Manchester United infamously withdrew a few years ago, but the simple fact is that they have made their bed with their criminal failure to offer the protection and guardianship to the game and the clubs of this country, which essentially is one of their primary duties. A duty that they have seemingly themselves disregarded in favour of the dollar and the hype that surrounds it, coming their way.

They have allowed the continuous influx of foreign money with extremely little in the way of safeguards, as we have found out to our detriment. They have allowed clubs to be saddled with huge debts. They have allowed clubs to become corporate businesses ahead of traditional football clubs with their communities at heart. This, ultimately, is the bottom line and the major contributing factor when it comes to the fall from grace of our domestic cups, inflated ticket prices, hugely bloated transfer fee's and players wages and in turn the depressing seperation of supporters from what were traditionally their clubs.

The FA cup might well still carry significance for many supporters, it does for me, but the fact is that modern day football has no time for the supporters that make it the promoters wet dream that it has become, they care about one thing, and that is the money they can make from the game and from us. The same goes with ticket prices, cup final allocations etc etc.

This will not change until one of two things happen. Either we stand as a collective support in this country and beyond and make it perfectly clear that no longer will we accept being taken for granted, of being the front cover of the clubs latest cup final DVD whilst at the same time being denied a ticket for that same final in favour of corporate dollar. Again, money.

Or, the bottom finally falls out of the game. Chasing the likes of Manchester City and Chelsea, with their ridiculous spending power and the soaring inflation that it creates, in turn placing clubs in a perilous financial position in doing so, forcing clubs into the wall, bringing the game down like the perilously balanced financial house of cards that it is.

I've said it before and ill say it again, I hope that happens and the game - our game, gets the chance to rid itself of the cancerous moneymen that have created the bloated, money hungry, egotistical monster that was once referred to as "the national game".

If that's what it takes to put things right then I'm for it Grobbelrevell - desperate times call for desperate measures - and I can't see our game lasting more than another decade the way it's going.

D'yer know these days I resent so much about the game I used to love that I can't be arsed to watch it anymore? I'm saying to meself as I'm writing this "fookin' hell - never thought I'd see the day when I could not be arsed about our game." But there it is.
 
I think what I'm feeling here is that our clubs (and the players it employs) have become so totally divorced from the communities that birthed and succoured them over the generations that it's reached the point now that the pay as you come fans are held to be expendable or even worse, are seen  as the enemy of "the business." Well, much as I love my club (as you lads and girls here love your club) they can go and fuck themselves - much as they've fucked our game and indirectly all of us along with it. Time to mend it or bin it 'cos it's not our game anymore. Bastards.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 10:09:20 PM by Johnnowhite »
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

Offline torres09

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If that's what it takes to put things right then I'm for it Grobbelrevell - desperate times call for desperate measures - and I can't see our game lasting more than another decade the way it's going.

D'yer know these days I resent so much about the game I used to love that I can't be arsed to watch it anymore? I'm saying to meself as I'm writing this "fookin' hell - never thought I'd see the day when I could not be arsed about our game." But there it is.
 
I think what I'm feeling here is that our clubs (and the players it employs) have become so totally divorced from the communities that birthed and succoured them over the generations that it's reached the point now that the pay as you come fans are held to be expendable or even worse, are seen  as the enemy of "the business." Well, much as I love my club (as you lads and girls here love your club) they can go and fuck themselves - much as they've fucked our game and indirectly all of us along with it. Time to mend it or bin it 'cos it's not our game anymore. Bastards.
Sums up exactly what I think too mate. good post

Offline JayCee

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I used to really respect people who travel home and away with Liverpool FC, now I just look at them as though they need their head testing. They either have so much money that the outlay doesn't matter to them or they literally spend their lives working to fund football, which can't be healthy for anybody.

I started going on the Kop in my teens during the mid to late 80's, I'm pretty sure I paid £2.80 during my first season or so. When I paid for my Arsenal ticket recently I was honestly shocked to find out it would set me back £47.50 per ticket. By the time I'd paid for 2 tickets, parking, a match programme, a couple of drinks etc, my trip to the match set me back well over £130. I only live within 8 miles of Anfield so god help those who travel from further afield and need to budget for petrol costs.

My 8 year old wants to start going to the game this season so I promised him during the summer that we'd try to get to every home game. Having just received my credit card bill for the three games we've attended during August it's already clear we certainly can't afford to go to every home game, infact he's going to be lucky to go once a month.

I used to treat going to the game as my reward at the end of a long week, now it's so expensive that a trip to the match is considered a luxury item that I really need to budget for.

In some ways I hope the football industry implodes and the money men abandon it to seek their riches elsewhere. However, I doubt that will happen anytime soon and without a doubt we'll be looking at over £50 a ticket next season. At that price I'd probably choose not to attend and then my lad would be lucky to see one game a season.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 12:24:19 PM by JayCee »

Offline caspertheghost

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Jaycee the £50 ticket will be here soon, I'll be waiting to see what the VAT increase means come next January.
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Offline JayCee

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£50 a ticket is just unreal but I'm sure you're right, It's just around the corner.

My feeling this year is that once the euphoria of the start of the season begins to die off and we head towards winter, more and more clubs will see ever growing numbers of empty seats. Last season it was embarassing to see live games on TV with half empty stands. Already this season Wigan looked half empty against Chelsea, can you imagine how many will turn up to see them play Sunderland on a cold winters night. Something is putting people off and it's almost certainly down to money.

Liverpool as always will see a high demand for tickets but I can even see us suffering particularly if results don't go well in the league or we draw mediocre teams in Europe.

Once people start to stay away and get out of the loop of purchasing tickets then they are almost certainly gone for good. My next door neighbour who used to go every week says he wouldn't have a clue about how to get hold of tickets these days and doesn't even bother trying now. Effectively he's retired himself from attending matches and is now content to pay his Sky Sports subscription instead.

As people start to abandon the match, at £50 a ticket who's going to start going?

God knows when this will end but when this football gravy train finally comes to a screeching halt it's certainly not going to be a pretty sight. As usual it's going to be the average fans that the clubs start to fall back on once again.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 01:12:15 PM by JayCee »

Offline Red_Skippy

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Sadly the EPL is too much of an "event" sport to see ticket prices drop.  The powers that be behind clubs and the game are more than likely aware that soon the bubble will burst though they most likely don't care as by the time that day comes they will have lined their own pockets enough to need not worry.

Too may people are making too much money for anyone up top to care.  :(
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Offline JohnnoWhite

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Sadly the EPL is too much of an "event" sport to see ticket prices drop.  The powers that be behind clubs and the game are more than likely aware that soon the bubble will burst though they most likely don't care as by the time that day comes they will have lined their own pockets enough to need not worry.

Too may people are making too much money for anyone up top to care.  :(

Absolutely - and NOW is the time the FA should be standing up for the game. As they aren't doing that then we're cleared to ask the obvious question. What the fuck are they there for if not to defend the game?

It's far too late once the bubble has burst because our game and its long heritage will be out on its arse - because no-one did anything to stop it - as in the NASL over 25 years ago.
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

Offline Citizen Kane

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Once, or more like if the ownership issue is resolved us as fans should turn our attention to this. Every fan in the country would support this and with Facebook and Twitter it would spread like wildfire. I'm sure the attendance bubble might burst soon though; just look at Bolton, Wigan and clubs like that who struggle to fill out half their stadiums. Man united have had to put season tickets on general sale for the first time in ages. With a little shove in the right direction maybe clubs could decrease prices.

But I digress. When you think about it clubs are dependent on the ticket money. We have debts of 280 million quid, there is no way in hell anyone would cut prices. Clubs are now profit driven and it would be ludicrous for the owners of successful clubs to cut money. What we need is sanctions by the FA but frankly they are too spineless and I bet they hold very little power these days.

Offline JohnnoWhite

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Once, or more like if the ownership issue is resolved us as fans should turn our attention to this. Every fan in the country would support this and with Facebook and Twitter it would spread like wildfire. I'm sure the attendance bubble might burst soon though; just look at Bolton, Wigan and clubs like that who struggle to fill out half their stadiums. Man united have had to put season tickets on general sale for the first time in ages. With a little shove in the right direction maybe clubs could decrease prices.

But I digress. When you think about it clubs are dependent on the ticket money. We have debts of 280 million quid, there is no way in hell anyone would cut prices. Clubs are now profit driven and it would be ludicrous for the owners of successful clubs to cut money. What we need is sanctions by the FA but frankly they are too spineless and I bet they hold very little power these days.



Clubs have always been profit-driven - that's what businesses are about. I don't have a problem with that in principle - within reason - but these days, our game at Premiership level, is a big fat cash cow sitting waiting for any ould tosser with a few score million to spare who just might fancy ripping off a club - ANY club - and turn his few score million into a billion - and BOLLUX to the long term outcome.

The FA - as you say spineless bastards that they were and still are - bent over double to take it up the arse at the formation of the Premier League when those greedy clubs atop the old First Division - both ours among them! - threatened the governing body of English football that if they didn't get a bigger slice of the cake, they'd break away and set up their own league anyway.
The spineless twats at the FA instead of counter-responding with their own threat to expel every single bullying club folded like a busted crisp bag at the first fence. From then on, the English game was fucked. The principle however remains that we the fans are all being shafted on the back of the heritage that our clubs have in the English game.

The Premiership is like the Hans Andersen fairy story the Kings New Clothes. There's fuck all there when you look closely at it. All that there is is a pile of debt brought into the English game by these cashcow err....shall we call them dairy farmers to be polite or shall we call them fucking robbing bastards that don't care a shite from where their money comes or whether it's sustainable in the long run. If this particular business cycle goes wrong they'll do as the banks did a couple of years back and plead poverty and throw themselves on the mercy of the goverment court, take a handout from wherever it comes and start trading somewhere else again. They give fucking parasites a bad name.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 07:42:18 AM by Johnnowhite »
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

Offline ronnnie yates

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come february i will be throwing in my sky subs , i should never have given the b astard a penny of my money ,he should have been stopped at wapping ,but thats another story ,anyway ill be writing to sky /the sports minister / and anyone else i think will be relevant  to see what reaction i get back ,the truth is sky have f ucked the whole game up ,we have footballers on weekly salaries that quite frankly i would love to earn in 5 YEARS , we have scandalous ticket prices ,and kick off times that are an absolute pain , there is no consideration to the match going fan , im 44 ,have been going regulary to anfield since 85 , i wont chuck my season tickket in ,because i firmly believe that the bubble has burst and we will see a trickle of fans likeourselves demonstrating inside the grounds ,once that starts ,hopefully we will seeothr fans getting it together aswell , RECLAIM THE GAME ,CANCEL SLY SPORTS . do you think that would make a good t shirt ??

Offline chloec

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Ive been against modern football for years now. In 1999 me and my son were sat in our ST seats in the Lower Centenary and i was listening to these 2 suits in front of me. One was telling the other how hed been at the Southampton match when they beat Utd 6-3. Now thats the first time i had seen with my own eyes, travelling salesmen (or whatever) taking the seats that fellow reds should have had. The following summer i was taking a caravan to northern Spain for a holiday and i phoned the club to tell them i would be away for about 4 weeks. I asked what i should do about my ticket renewals. They told me not to worry that i would have plenty of time to sort it on my return. When i got back i phoned straight away and was told i had lost them and they had been allocated to someone else. Well ive been red all my life, im 47 now and used to walk to the games when we were only 7 or 8 and wait for them to open the doors to let everyone out just so we caught the last 15 mins. Ive been bunked up through the boys pen into the Kop. Some of the best times of my life have been with mates and following Liverpool. Then it was ruined for me that day. I just hoped that whoever the seats went to were fellow reds and not some corporate twat thats not even bothered about any club. I dont need to boycot anything to do with the club ive never spent or bought the kids anything from the club since.
« Last Edit: September 8, 2010, 04:44:34 PM by chloec »

Offline torres09

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It's a joke the way the game has ended up,ticket prices soaring and as a result pricing the normal working-class person out of what was once their saturday afternoon tradition and routine (Every other saturday is me half day off,and its of to the match I go) It's impossible for the average person to afford the money these c**nts are trying to extort from fans week in week out, and as a result we see more and more jester hat wearing yuppie day trippers sitting on their ass turning stadiums into souless bowls while eating a jumbo dog or whatever the fuck it is taking 'pics' of themselves. How long before the vendors are prancing about selling coca cola in the stands with silly hats on? or mabey that's against health and  safety regulation!!!!!!

The match or the game,as I know it by, is now marketed as an "event" "a spectacle" etc ,and is a privilege to go.

When will it end?


Offline JohnnoWhite

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2010, 09:57:01 PM »
It's a joke the way the game has ended up,ticket prices soaring and as a result pricing the normal working-class person out of what was once their saturday afternoon tradition and routine (Every other saturday is me half day off,and its of to the match I go) It's impossible for the average person to afford the money these c**nts are trying to extort from fans week in week out, and as a result we see more and more jester hat wearing yuppie day trippers sitting on their ass turning stadiums into souless bowls while eating a jumbo dog or whatever the fuck it is taking 'pics' of themselves. How long before the vendors are prancing about selling coca cola in the stands with silly hats on? or mabey that's against health and  safety regulation!!!!!!

The match or the game,as I know it by, is now marketed as an "event" "a spectacle" etc ,and is a privilege to go.

When will it end?



When the arse falls out of the game as the Premiership bubble bursts....which can't be that far away now....
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

Offline yslee

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2010, 02:33:22 PM »
What's interesting to me is that football is the world's sport, and Liverpool FC is one of the biggest names, with fans in just about every corner of the world, watched by millions. Yet when it comes to revenue, it seems to rest so heavily on the 45k occupying the seats in Anfield...

Offline JohnnoWhite

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2010, 07:50:19 AM »
Well those 45K that turn up / pay up every other week are sticking a good few mill into the Yankee pot. THAT cannot be discounted as financially irrelevant in spite of commercial merchandise and (dwindling..) TV monies.
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2010, 10:11:52 AM »
When the arse falls out of the game as the Premiership bubble bursts....which can't be that far away now....

Heres hoping...
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Offline jaymc

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2010, 09:50:04 PM »
Can't be arsed going anymore myself. Its got to the point were the prices are just taking the piss, and were will they stop. Theres got to be a breaking point soon, especially for places like liverpool, manchester etc. Just don't think many of our fans are that arsed about stuff like this, they just want the yanks out (nothing wrong with that, do myself) and will be made up with some billionaire sugar daddy.

The yanks are pricks no question, but people talk like us getting rid of them will be a return to our noble values, and once again us fans will be treated with the respect we deserve. Well as far as i can see we were treated like mugs before the yanks and will be treated like that after.


Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2010, 10:52:25 AM »
Its got to the point were the prices are just taking the piss, and were will they stop.

I couldnt agree more. £53 for a United away ticket (including CC fee). £45 for the return at Anfield.

Those are the kind of prices that used to be associated with touts. I suppose they still are in many ways, only nowadays the clubs are touting them directly.

How many people will be able to realistically afford to attend more than a handful of games a season with prices like that? Its no wonder that the atmosphere at the games is deteriorating rapidly with each passing season. The only way this is going is for more and more day trippers and corporates.

Your looking at £100 per match when you factor in any transport costs, food, drinks and a match programme.

Shocking, it really is.
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Offline JohnnoWhite

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2010, 05:17:51 PM »
The days of taking your lad or your lad's lad to the game to keep the tradition going are finished. It's not a possible doer any more. They've fucked our game good-style.
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

Offline ronnnie yates

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2010, 04:34:37 PM »
there is a cracking story emerging from germany , dortmund fans are boycotting their biggest away season , shalke away , cause of an big increase in ticket priceing , however i wish ours were only 20 euros ;D, cant post the link as im fucked as i know how  :butt

Offline spp

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2010, 11:40:09 AM »


Here is the link to German fans protest
Gotta love them Germans

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8986321.stm

Offline Walton_Gary

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2010, 11:36:10 AM »
Them Germans arent soft though - we are! we should have done this years ago but being british we are too daft, the french would have done the same, italians etc not us!

Ive voted with my feet on this one - loads of reasons but i just dont think its the same anymore, if ten years ago someone would have said i had'nt been to a game in 3 years id have laughed at them, but i havent its not for me anymore - thats from someone who used to beg, borrow, steal to get to every game.

That article on the BBC brings it home to me, football is no longer what it was no matter what andy gray and martin tyler say and its not just the money, grown men near crying when they get touched and most of the times even when they dont - last year in the same weekend i saw rooney and gerrard dive f*ckin stupid and if there was any wiff of me watching footy again it disappeared then!

The bug has sailed for me - £50 a game it will be soon - yer havin a laugh!

Offline JohnnoWhite

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2010, 12:02:25 PM »
Them Germans arent soft though - we are! we should have done this years ago but being british we are too daft, the french would have done the same, italians etc not us!

Ive voted with my feet on this one - loads of reasons but i just dont think its the same anymore, if ten years ago someone would have said i had'nt been to a game in 3 years id have laughed at them, but i havent its not for me anymore - thats from someone who used to beg, borrow, steal to get to every game.

That article on the BBC brings it home to me, football is no longer what it was no matter what Martin Tyler's Monkey and martin tyler say and its not just the money, grown men near crying when they get touched and most of the times even when they dont - last year in the same weekend i saw rooney and gerrard dive f*ckin stupid and if there was any wiff of me watching footy again it disappeared then!

The bug has sailed for me - £50 a game it will be soon - yer havin a laugh!

And I agree with those sentiments - they've hi-jacked our game and changed it into something I don't recognise anymore. It's finished for me and many tens of thousands of former die-hards too.
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: AGAINST MOD£RN FOOTBALL: A Complaint against Premier League Ticket Prices
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2010, 04:58:51 PM »
The bug has sailed for me - £50 a game it will be soon - yer havin a laugh!

It has reached that stage mate. Including booking fee's, United away was £53.

I was talking about this with a pretty clued up red the other day and he was arguing that ticket prices are reasonable in this country. I can't agree with that. In relative terms, in comparison with prices pre-sky, we are being bled dry by the rulers of the modern game.

How can it possibly be reasonable when a wide cross section of supporters simply cannot afford to go to the game any more? And further to that, simply cannot afford to even take their kid(s) to the games?

What kind of legacy are we leaving to the future generations?

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