As above.
Good post X1 especially in that it brings a focus on some of the key points – though again I’m not sure why nobody else seems prepared to take a stab like myself – beyond gentle hints in that direction - as to what the pair have already bled out on the back of the club.
Could they have miscalculated their purchase of Liverpool? Yes. And I think that is at least part of their problems.
I think it depends which aspect of the purchase you’re referring to.
Miscalculated the depth of mistrust, antagonism and hostility? Yes. I’m sure they will not have expected to find themselves quite so accountable for their actions or lack thereof. I think disdain and contempt for others is so engrained within their psyche and modus operandi that they feel they can get away with virtually anything without being questioned by those they regard as merely the plebs they are milking.
Miscalculated the profitability? No. I don’t think so. In line with what I’ve posted I really do believe they have been able to profit quite handsomely so far from the surplus loan and the increased turnover. I don’t mind being shown that I’m wrong on this. But so far nobody has been able to explain why as a club we’ve been acting as if we’re borrassic for the last 2 years or so [since the heel dragging over the Barry signing] yet a quick take on the overall loan monies and the increased turnover reveals the exact opposite. We should have been able to at least have afforded some quality playing additions without compensating quality playing resources heading out in the opposite direction. But no such quality ADDITIONS to the overall playing strength/depth have arrived.
The evidence is overwhelmingly that they intended to build a new stadium, and that has been well documented. Of course it is possible that really they didn’t, but no evidence exists for that. We disagree.
...the Credit Crunch hit them, made the Stadium project unviable and also hit their prospects of long term loans.
I looked back through the timescales on this and it looks as if you’re right about the timing of the credit crunch. But only in so far as the chronology of it ties in with the way things turned out. So I will hold up my hands on that score.
However, thinking back as to why I feel so definite in my own mind as to why the use of the credit crunch was more of a convenient excuse as distinct from a genuine reason for their failure/inability to proceed with the stadium.
I do admit it did have me a bit confused on it for a while because there’s no doubt that the credit crunch does have relevance to the feasibility of any such projects.
However, the more I reflected so the true picture began to re-emerge in my mind. The reason I and those who followed the events closely at the time they evolved became so firmly convinced that no matter what posturing they perfected they never had really genuine intention of providing us with the new stadium that their architect’s had seduced us all with.
It was to do with the monetary numbers simply not adding up. Neither their original [admittedly stunning and exciting] design nor its moderately scaled down – yet still stunning – version could be made to come anywhere near to stacking up financially. They were white elephants as individual projects in their own right their own right, let alone within the context of the entire H&G financial model for LFC.
I’m not going to dredge up all the costs but I think I’m right in saying that the figures talked about for the original design were over £500 million – a figure some reliable old school QS buddy of mine looked closely into at the time and was able to confirm – and the scaled down version over £400 million. So even at pre-credit crunch interest rates/money availability [which was still about when the designs first emerged to wow everyone] the short and long term interest/capital debt of their stadium design had - even when viewed alone - priced itself beyond the realms of feasibility.
When viewed in the context of the huge loan already taken out to purchase the club and the club's previous debt the ability to afford such interest charges and run the club as a going concern simply didn’t exist. In fact, it was probably something around
£40 million per annum away from being able to do so.
The fact was the credit crunch was nothing more than a convenient smokescreen that H&G have deployed since as its global implications for the financing of construction projects has hit home. The crazy thing is that they’ve spouted it so many times that they themselves now appear to believe it actually carries credibility and that it was the reason the project never went ahead. It seems too, X1 – and believe me I do say this with respect – that there are now many decent Reds who have also lapsed into believing it. I’m delighted to have conveyed the reality to dispel the myth without attempting to score any childish points on the matter.
I do not discount the possibility that over time the value of LFC will increase, indeed I suspect that is the reason why they are hanging on to us so tightly. I also agree that the Club has been up for sale from the moment they bought it, if a buyer was able to pay a acceptable premium, new stadium or not.
I agree with this. They seem to have got the room to manoeuvre for the foreseeable future in that by limiting the annual expenditure so that it falls within income – which may involve asset stripping of certain top players – they can carry on bleeding us as they await the arrival of a buyer beguiled by the name and reputation of LFC who is prepared to go that little bit further towards meeting their ridiculous pricing demands than anybody else to date.
The RBS/Barclay role in all this – I have formed absolutely no opinion on despite all the fabulous posts and info from the likes of yourself, Jack, manila, Titch et alia
