Topic: Official- Rafa's Gone - Who's Next?

[Juan Loco]

I see what you mean, but I don't see how it doesn't extend to any number of clubs, or back in time to Rick Parry, who was the guy that got Rafa. Would you feel more content if it was David Dein finding the next manager? Or David Gill, Peter Kenyon and so forth?

[rafathegaffa83]

Extremely, extremely unlikely, but this is exactly why I want Van Gaal. You look at what he's done at Bayern. He's a very difficult character, and someone like Gerrard would have to buy into his ways a lot more than the did Rafa's, but he's great at that.

I think this has to be explained at the interview process though. A couple of the remits to any candidate has to be that they give the youth ample opportunity and that they'll stick to a pass and move philosophy. I think that's so important over the coming 3-5 years. We want the best young kids in the country to know that they would get a chance at Liverpool, and they'd play good football there. Like it or not but it matters a lot to certain players (mostly the kind of flair ones we've been lacking for years).

In the same regard this is why I'd want Pellegrini. Van Gaal would be the ideal choice, but I think Pellegrini's more realistic under the circumstances. I think Pellegrini would be committed to a "pass and move" philosophy, as he likes his teams to keep the ball on the floor. He gave youth players chances at Villarreal and wasn't afraid to bench key players at Villarreal and Real Madrid who were underperforming or detrimental to the team ethic such as Benzema, Kaka, Riquelme and Raul. Thus, he isn't afraid to make unpopular tactical and disciplinary decisions that can benefit the team as a whole. He is also accustomed to losing his best players and working within the resources at his disposal.

He also has done well with underperforming and previously neglected players at both Villarreal and Real Madrid at giving them second chances. He proved to be remarkably thick-skinned at Real Madrid when Perez and Marca wanted him out from pretty much day one. As Sid Lowe has noted, he got on with it and did what he felt was best for the team. In fact when he was asked about how deals with players in his opening press conference he said:

I think I work on my relationship with them on a daily basis. I’ve never been at the forefront and being at Real Madrid is not going to change that. It isn’t my place to be in the media everyday.

I can see him being a calming, but disciplined influence, which we could do with at the moment. The type of person whose reputation will be big enough to satisfy the key parties at the club. He worked wonders at Villarreal turning a small seaside club and town into one of the leading teams in Spain. I think he could do a decent job here too.

[keyo]

The pay off. Money talks.

you are stating that rafa did not resign specifically so that he could then agitate for the board to ask him to leave so he could negotiate a pay-off.....this in turn, suggests that when he said he wanted to stay at liverpool last month, he was lying in order to hoodwink the fans into believing he was being forced out against his will.......now, what exactly do you base your assertion on other than your opinion and speculation?

[mugsy]

Well if Arsenal can bring Wenger to premiership from Japan and Everton brought Moyes up from the lower divisions then the field is very open.

The most successful exred manager at the moment is Steve Nicol in USA, why not bring him (he seems to be a good man manager/leader), maybe with someone who is knowledgeable of the Premiership like Thomson or Hypia as a number 2 as help may just work and I am sure he would also get a lot of advise from Kenny so he wouldn't be thrown in to the deep end.  Plus he is quiet like previous managers and not one to fawn over the media.  He would be pretty cheap.  May sound like a mad idea but how many thought Wenger coming from Japan was mad.

[RedinExile]

I see what you mean, but I don't see how it doesn't extend to any number of clubs, or back in time to Rick Parry, who was the guy that got Rafa. Would you feel more content if it was David Dein finding the next manager? Or David Gill, Peter Kenyon and so forth?

Well yeah sort-of. I think what I'm trying to highlight (badly) is the apparent lack of in-depth World football knowledge that we appear to have at a senior executive level. I'm worried the search will be superficial due to both owner requirements and a lack of appropriate knowledge.

I could be way off but with all the stuff coming out the club with Moores etc I just find it hard to imagine a lean, mean executive machine is operating in any fashion at all.

[xerxes1]

you are stating that rafa did not resign specifically so that he could then agitate for the board to ask him to leave so he could negotiate a pay-off.....this in turn, suggests that when he said he wanted to stay at liverpool last month, he was lying in order to hoodwink the fans into believing he was being forced out against his will.......now, what exactly do you base your assertion on other than your opinion and speculation?

This is how I read it Keyo:

My guess is that after last summer’s  transfer debacle Rafa realised as time went on that he was not going to have the tools to do the job. But he was not prepared to walk out of a lucrative contract. I think that the Club wanted him to stay, and that it was in the clubs interests that he should do so, IF he was toeing the line. But having someone say, “I can’t do the job you want me to because you won’t give me the tools”, but won’t walk, gets you to  “mutual consent” territory.

So I think that Rafa quite reasonably engineered a situation where it was obvious to the Board that things could not continue , but they could not sack him without a very expensive constructive dismissal risk.

[xerxes1]

Well yeah sort-of. I think what I'm trying to highlight (badly) is the apparent lack of in-depth World football knowledge that we appear to have at a senior executive level. I'm worried the search will be superficial due to both owner requirements and a lack of appropriate knowledge.

I could be way off but with all the stuff coming out the club with Moores etc I just find it hard to imagine a lean, mean executive machine is operating in any fashion at all.

If what you are saying is that there is no-one on the Board at the club qualified to make an informed decision about the next managerial appointment you would be correct.

There is no question that Kenny can help, but ten years out of the game, there is a limit to what he can do. Furthermore by helping Purslow find a replacement, he is inviting the suggestion that he agreed with Rafa's departure.And if he does pull a rabbit out of the hat, someone good, that could actually delay the departure of G&H. This is dangerous territory for Kenny, and his hitherto unsullied reputation.

[RedinExile]

If what you are saying is that there is no-one on the Board at the club qualified to make an informed decision about the next managerial appointment you would be correct.

There is no question that Kenny can help, but ten years out of the game, there is a limit to what he can do.

Not too sure myself about the rest but agree with the above!

[Cracking Left Foot]

The more I read about Pellegrini, the more I like the idea. It would provide a bit of stability, placate the Spanish-speaking players and he's already shown he knows how to handle big egos (maybe he could bring Xabi back with him!). Ideally, I'd like Van Gaal, but I know that's never going to happen.

Having said that, I think a short-term appointment of Kenny in the short-term while the ownership situation is sorted is most likely.

As long as the baggy-eyed, S*n loving crook stays away....

[brenh]

My Spurs mate is very, very worried that Harry Redknapp will get it. I can say now that i will never watch a game again if he or that jumped up little Paddy get anywhere near my club.

well agree with you on that one i feel the same about it

[JackWard33]

I'm amazed so many want Dalglish - I love Kenny, he's the best player to ever wear the shirt and had a great record as manager but the man has been out of management for nearly 20 years and he's spent most of that time on the golf course. I'm afraid it would be a complete disaster.

[TheoRacle]

I'm amazed so many want Dalglish - I love Kenny, he's the best player to ever wear the shirt and had a great record as manager but the man has been out of management for nearly 20 years and he's spent most of that time on the golf course. I'm afraid it would be a complete disaster.

I'm also amazed but for different reasons.  I have absolutely no wish to see King Kenny struggle to manage us with both hands tied behind his back courtesy of G&H.  It's heart attack territory and he most certainly does not deserve that.

[Godmadebloodred]

I've just submitted my CV to the yanks.
Soon, I'll be handing out pictures of me to the Kopites. I'd like very much like to have the Rafa-tollah treatment! With the picture frames, the death to America chanting, the works............

[keyo]

This is how I read it Keyo:

My guess is that after last summer’s  transfer debacle Rafa realised as time went on that he was not going to have the tools to do the job. But he was not prepared to walk out of a lucrative contract. I think that the Club wanted him to stay, and that it was in the clubs interests that he should do so, IF he was toeing the line. But having someone say, “I can’t do the job you want me to because you won’t give me the tools”, but won’t walk, gets you to  “mutual consent” territory.

So I think that Rafa quite reasonably engineered a situation where it was obvious to the Board that things could not continue , but they could not sack him without a very expensive constructive dismissal risk.

i understand your take on it, and it is a reasonable assumption.....but is way short of the suggestion of the poster originally.... my take would be similar to yours, however i would suggest that rafa may not have engineered the move necessarily, merely stuck to his guns and stated that as manager he needs to be provided with the tools to do the job in the most effective manner possible...........either way, i would suggest that benitez was backed into a corner rather than being the agitator to the issue, resulting in a "mutual consent" decision

based on the integrity of the people involved i would suggest the motives of benitez, whilst not selfless, would be less questionable than those involved on the club's side

[KopThat]

We need to get the manager sorted in the next couple of weeks, after the world cup is when the fun really starts.

When high bids come in for Torres, Gerrard and Masch, who has the say, with Rafa gone it will be the thieving yanks.

If the value of the club doesn't go down as much as the money they will get from the sale, they will cash in.

[Johnathan]

Those managers MIGHT take us higher than 7th, but they'll never take us higher than 4th!

Just playing devil's advocate, but how do we know?

[Johnathan]

I shouldn't have said not watching the team would make him not a real fan. That was out of line and I apologise.

[LFC when it suits]

Bottom line is; there is just no one out there suitable. There's not one name that has been bandied about that I've gone; hmm maybe be or not bad, not one. I haven't a gnu what the fuck we are gonna do come the end of July when the qualifiers start.
If I had to be pushed on anyone  I'd say Kenny, simply because what we need at the moment is stability not upheaval and am not too happy about coming to that conclusion in all honesty.

Pellegrini.

[Gromit]

I'm amazed so many want Dalglish - I love Kenny, he's the best player to ever wear the shirt and had a great record as manager but the man has been out of management for nearly 20 years and he's spent most of that time on the golf course. I'm afraid it would be a complete disaster.

20 years?  Closer to 10, he's been at Blackburn and Newcastle since.

We all laughed when Keegan went back to Newcastle, it wasn't a disaster but it didn't turn out how the romantics wanted it to.

[KopThat]

The game has not changed that much, and I would relish seeing us play the way we did under Dalglish again.
Form is temporary, class is permanent

[Fordy]

We need someone who can get especially Torres and Gerrard to stay, and i don't see Hodgson or O'Neill doing that.

Totally disagree. It wont be up to the new manager to convince the top players to stay it will be Kenny and the board. If they is money to spend for the new manager then I am convinced they will stay.

So if a top player does leave then dont blame it on the new manager - blame the owners.

[Helsinki Red]

I'm not sure Dalglish is the right man for the job. He's a legend and loves the club but he hasn't been managing for 20 years and that's a bit worrying.

[harleydanger]

What do you think the reaction would be if Rafa donated his golden handshake into the SOS buy back fund?

[Rafas Christmas Coats]

What do you think the reaction would be if Rafa donated his golden handshake into the SOS buy back fund?

Hmmmm I think I'd be.... Happy?

[Dewey Finn]

I'm not sure Dalglish is the right man for the job. He's a legend and loves the club but he hasn't been managing for 20 years and that's a bit worrying.

Teams managed
1985–1991 Liverpool
1991–1995 Blackburn Rovers
1997–1998 Newcastle United
1999–2000 Celtic
2009– Liverpool (Academy)

[rednich85]

The game has not changed that much

Have a read at that again.

If the penny hasnt dropped, read it again.

[xerxes1]

i understand your take on it, and it is a reasonable assumption.....but is way short of the suggestion of the poster originally.... my take would be similar to yours, however i would suggest that rafa may not have engineered the move necessarily, merely stuck to his guns and stated that as manager he needs to be provided with the tools to do the job in the most effective manner possible...........either way, i would suggest that benitez was backed into a corner rather than being the agitator to the issue, resulting in a "mutual consent" decision

based on the integrity of the people involved i would suggest the motives of benitez, whilst not selfless, would be less questionable than those involved on the club's side

Fair comment.

[rafabenihill]

What do you think the reaction would be if Rafa donated his golden handshake into the SOS buy back fund?

not good enough.. he should have paid back last year's salary cos he left us with a weakened squad

[rafabenihill]

xerxes1, so is marco van basten gonna partner torres up front or we play him off the bench?

[gazc23]

Bottom line is; there is just no one out there suitable. There's not one name that has been bandied about that I've gone; hmm maybe be or not bad, not one. I haven't a gnu what the fuck we are gonna do come the end of July when the qualifiers start.
If I had to be pushed on anyone  I'd say Kenny, simply because what we need at the moment is stability not upheaval and am not too happy about coming to that conclusion in all honesty.

There was one guy, unfortunately he was recently given 6 million reasons not to manage our club.

[the jesus]

There was one guy, unfortunately he was recently given 6 million reasons not to manage our club.

Honestly none of the names mentioned excite me like when Rafa was linked with the Job.
That was before i knew much about the man other than his achievements at Valencia.
He seemed the perfect man for the Job

[AKABillyGee]

Don't know if this is the right thread but a decent read:

James Corrigan: In debt, nothing to spend, stars may leave and owners hated. Interested?

The Last Word

Sunday, 6 June 2010

When Kenny Dalglish – or as he will soon be renamed "Kingmaker Kenny" – conducts his first interview for the role of manager of Liverpool Football Club it will be interesting to hear him set out the job description. We can only pray he speaks very slowly and very honestly. For it is only fair the candidates be made completely aware of what is expected of them.

But then, we all know Dalglish won't really be involved in the process and that he's only been called upon to douse the anger of the mutineers. It'll be down to whichever puppet the owners/board choose. Whoever it is – whether it's the chairman, chief executive or a £10,000-an hour headhunter – they will have to be some salesman. A smooth-talker whose next assignment will not be to sell sand to the Arabs but sell a debt- ridden club to the Arabs. Perhaps the spiel to the prospective gaffer should go something like this...

"Right let's get down to it – the last chap was a disaster. Rafa Benitez failed dismally. In six seasons he reached only two Champions' League finals, winning only one of them to go alongside his one FA Cup. How dare he? And don't even get us started about the Premier League. Do you know it took him five seasons to lead the club to its best League season in 19 years. Five seasons? I ask you, how much time did he want?

"Yes, yes, 2008-09 was rather promising on the face of it, losing just two games and collecting more points than any other runner-up in the history of the League. But we found out what he was about in the next campaign. Way down in seventh, a whole seven points off the fourth-place finish with which we would have been satisfied. It couldn't go on, so it didn't. Particularly when the press came on side and started printing the myths dressed up as damning statistics.

"Benitez signed more than 70 players for more than £240m. True, 30 of them were youth players and he did sell quite a few, too. In fact, when you do the actual maths his net spend is more like £80m, less than Spurs and, of course, less than Manchester City in the same period. But £240m sounds better, don't you think? And the wages? Well, yes, ours are about three-quarters of United's and Chelsea's, but what's that got to do with anything? This ungrateful man thought just because the new owners have given him virtually nowt to spend since they took over in 2007 he could whinge about it. Couldn't he see we're all suffering here? That even poor old George and Tom, as hard as they have tried, have been forced to put the club £350m in debt.

"So, you'll understand, we had to get rid of him. He would definitely have caused a fuss when we sold Torres and Gerrard and gave him £15m for squad strengthening. You wouldn't mind managing without those two would you? After all, Rafa effectively had to last season, with the Spaniard always injured and the new England captain in the worst form of his career.

"Still, there was no need for anyone to focus on that when they could blame him for selling Xabi Alonso and bringing in Alberto Aquilani. The most outrageous thing was that we only made £10m because of that piece of dreadful business. No, he had to go and now we have to go for a manager able to mask the cracks as we move ever deeper into the red and try to sell this club for a price it is simply not worth.

"So here's what we expect from the new boss in a nutshell. You must qualify for the Champions' League every year, winning it more often than once every six years and reaching the final every three years; you must do better in the Premier League than simply finishing a better second than any team before; and you must do all this on a smaller budget than your rivals, despite the fact everybody will claim otherwise. Do all that – and more importantly do it without moaning – and you'll be a hero in Liverpool and Texas. And please don't suffer one bad season that may or may not be a blip. Because you'll never be able to prove it was a blip. Because we'll get rid of you straight away and Fleet Street will applaud us for doing so.

"The fans? To hell with them. Thanks to those who we will soon have to call our 'friends in the press', the Anfield faithful can be dismissed as being more deluded than those cultists in Waco. Didn't you know they only stuck by Rafa because they had made him the figurehead for their protests. Well, that's what the columnists said anyway. It soon became accepted as a journalistic truth that the Liverpool support was 'in denial' when it came to Rafa and that in their hatred of the Americans they couldn't spot his inadequacies. Insulting? Perhaps just a little bit, considering we're talking here about fans who have consistently proved to be among the most knowledgeable. But it did the trick. They were talking rubbish – Rafa was rubbish. Had to go.

"So that brings us nicely on to you. How can you say no? Liverpool is a massive club, as you well know. And if we're bought out by some rich Arabs one day we might again have the finances of a massive club. To be honest, I wouldn't expect that to be Dubai now as they're more skint than we are. But someone with bottomless pockets will turn up. You just need to give off the illusion this club are as big as they ever were while we're waiting.

"So if you will just sign here, Mr Hiddink? Mr Hiddink? Mr Hiddink? Please don't slam the door, we've only just mended it from when Souness left...

"Valerie, get me Dalglish on the phone. Ask him if he would be kind enough to stop the fans from rioting, will you?"

[Neil D]

Well we're into the second week of our search for a manager following the shameful sacking of Rafa and what do we know so far?
 
When Houllier left we approached the two hottest and most successful managers in the world at that time - Mourinho and Benitez - to find a successor. We appointed the latter and enjoyed our most successful period in 20 years.
 
This time around all the men that fit that description have either flatly turned down any approach and reaffirmed their commitment to their current jobs - Hiddink, Van Gaal, Rijkaard - or already occupy positions where they are completely unattainable - Mourinho, Capello, Lippi, Guardiola
 
So, while the European Champions and best side in Italy enter talks to appoint Rafa, we have the hilarious (if it wasn't our club) indignity of being linked with Fulham and Aston Villa's managers, fucking Sven rent-a-job Eriksson and a man who six months ago was deemed not good enough for Manchester City, Mark Hughes.
 
Oh and if that wasn't painful enough we are now said to be chasing Tottenham's Harry Redknapp - a man with less tactical acumen in his entire body than Rafa has in one finger, who nevertheless will surely not leave his CL qualifying megabucks Spurs side in Laaandan (as if we could afford the compensation anyway) and most galling of all David Moyes himself from our presumably chuckling neighbours. And what makes that even more galling? The fact that David Moyes is a far better manager than whoever we will likely appoint.
 
Give me strength. I'm actually starting to warm to the Dalglish idea - even if that's exactly what the Yanks want.

[Chivasino]

Summed up brilliantly, Neil.

[Helsinki Red]

Give me strength. I'm actually starting to warm to the Dalglish idea - even if that's exactly what the Yanks want.

Same here. I'd have Dalglish over Hodgson, O'Neill, Redknapp, Eriksson or Hughes any day.

Still hoping for Pellegrini to be linked with us.

[the jesus]

Well we're into the second week of our search for a manager following the shameful sacking of Rafa and what do we know so far?
 
When Houllier left we approached the two hottest and most successful managers in the world at that time - Mourinho and Benitez - to find a successor. We appointed the latter and enjoyed our most successful period in 20 years.
 
This time around all the men that fit that description have either flatly turned down any approach and reaffirmed their commitment to their current jobs - Hiddink, Van Gaal, Rijkaard - or already occupy positions where they are completely unattainable - Mourinho, Capello, Lippi, Guardiola
 
So, while the European Champions and best side in Italy enter talks to appoint Rafa, we have the hilarious (if it wasn't our club) indignity of being linked with Fulham and Aston Villa's managers, fucking Sven rent-a-job Eriksson and a man who six months ago was deemed not good enough for Manchester City, Mark Hughes.
 
Oh and if that wasn't painful enough we are now said to be chasing Tottenham's Harry Redknapp - a man with less tactical acumen in his entire body than Rafa has in one finger, who nevertheless will surely not leave his CL qualifying megabucks Spurs side in Laaandan (as if we could afford the compensation anyway) and most galling of all David Moyes himself from our presumably chuckling neighbours. And what makes that even more galling? The fact that David Moyes is a far better manager than whoever we will likely appoint.
 
Give me strength. I'm actually starting to warm to the Dalglish idea - even if that's exactly what the Yanks want.

Summed up our current plight brilliantly.

[Carlito Roberto]

Well we're into the second week of our search for a manager following the shameful sacking of Rafa and what do we know so far?
 
When Houllier left we approached the two hottest and most successful managers in the world at that time - Mourinho and Benitez - to find a successor. We appointed the latter and enjoyed our most successful period in 20 years.
 
This time around all the men that fit that description have either flatly turned down any approach and reaffirmed their commitment to their current jobs - Hiddink, Van Gaal, Rijkaard - or already occupy positions where they are completely unattainable - Mourinho, Capello, Lippi, Guardiola
 
So, while the European Champions and best side in Italy enter talks to appoint Rafa, we have the hilarious (if it wasn't our club) indignity of being linked with Fulham and Aston Villa's managers, fucking Sven rent-a-job Eriksson and a man who six months ago was deemed not good enough for Manchester City, Mark Hughes.
 
Oh and if that wasn't painful enough we are now said to be chasing Tottenham's Harry Redknapp - a man with less tactical acumen in his entire body than Rafa has in one finger, who nevertheless will surely not leave his CL qualifying megabucks Spurs side in Laaandan (as if we could afford the compensation anyway) and most galling of all David Moyes himself from our presumably chuckling neighbours. And what makes that even more galling? The fact that David Moyes is a far better manager than whoever we will likely appoint.
 
Give me strength. I'm actually starting to warm to the Dalglish idea - even if that's exactly what the Yanks want.

Lippi is available after the World Cup, he gets my vote.

[Neil D]

Cheers lads. Has there been any concrete talk about Pellegrini? I can't see the Yanks appointing another Spaniard I'm afraid.

[Neil D]

Lippi is available after the World Cup, he gets my vote.

Yeah that would be a dream but hasn't he long said he will never leave Italy and only came out of retirement to help the Azzuri?

[Istanbul Therapy Group]

It just makes it worse that in all probablity he will go and dominate at Inter, given their already brilliant squad and the fact he is likley to have a serious bit of ££ behind him after the treble last season.

And we have to sit back and scrap for uefa cup places. Depressing.