Author Topic: British and Argentina relations strained  (Read 28285 times)

Offline Lee J

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #240 on: May 11, 2010, 05:58:59 pm »
400 million barrels is about 4.5 days of world oil consumption.
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Offline El Campeador

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #241 on: May 11, 2010, 06:06:41 pm »
400 million barrels is about 4.5 days of world oil consumption.

The Falklands will not have the capacity extract more than say a quarter million barrels a day at most, and that'll require at least a few years to ramp up. Consider that the United Arab Emirates only supplies about 2m barrels a day, and you can be easily amused.

Offline Stretch Armstrong

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #242 on: May 11, 2010, 08:46:06 pm »
Cameron could use this to be voted in for a second time
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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #243 on: May 11, 2010, 09:11:16 pm »
Cameron could use this to be voted in for a second time

Ha ha invade Argentina, 82 was a world cup year too :D

Offline ollick

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #244 on: May 11, 2010, 10:59:00 pm »
Perhaps he's not bothered, maybe someone is telling him what to do?


Nah you've lost me, you'll have to explain, are you saying 'cos I don't want to discuss my opinion and the reasoning and legality behind the invasion of Iraq I just follow orders?

That the best you can do?


Yeah bastards.

Why can't those Argies just be happy with taking all the geographic risk of a BP/Transocean leak catastrophe but none of the geographic reward? Greedy c*nts, the lot of them.

Oh well, at least we know that we can just fuck the tankers off in case of an accident, and let them swim in sticky shit. Fucking Argies.

What about the fucking British who live there?

They could have if they hadn't cancelled the deal a couple of years ago.

Sush, remember you can't prove anything with facts..............
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 11:03:56 pm by ollick »
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Offline El Campeador

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #245 on: May 11, 2010, 11:58:48 pm »
What about the fucking British who live there?

If 10 people living in a neighbourhood of 100,000 decided to build themselves a dodgy nuclear power plant and sell all the electricity to China, don't you think the risk that the 999,990 people living in the area maybe deserved a bit of insurance? Any fallout will fuck the 10 people, sure, but they're not my primary concern. They might be my principal defendants in court though.

Quote
Sush, remember you can't prove anything with facts..............

I'm the only one that has talked facts here with direct respect to the amount of recoverable oil in the area. Nobody seems interested in the fact that the rosiest dependable "estimates" - provided by of course the very same oil companies that want monopolistic, military-protected concessions - of this particular field's reserves vary wildly between "something" and "up to 400,000,000 barrels" - which can only be extracted after a half decade at the rate of much less than even a half million barrels a day. 

The world pisses through 86-88m barrels a day. By the time this operation is up and running, assuming oil prices don't go tits up (never trust a oil company post-2000 to supply you oil at less than $50 a barrel), you might have just enough time to hit the tail end of Peak Oil.

But you pissed of the Argies, and that should be well worth a spill or two :thumbup

Offline ollick

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #246 on: May 12, 2010, 08:41:48 am »
If 10 people living in a neighbourhood of 100,000 decided to build themselves a dodgy nuclear power plant and sell all the electricity to China, don't you think the risk that the 999,990 people living in the area maybe deserved a bit of insurance? Any fallout will fuck the 10 people, sure, but they're not my primary concern. They might be my principal defendants in court though.

I'm the only one that has talked facts here with direct respect to the amount of recoverable oil in the area. Nobody seems interested in the fact that the rosiest dependable "estimates" - provided by of course the very same oil companies that want monopolistic, military-protected concessions - of this particular field's reserves vary wildly between "something" and "up to 400,000,000 barrels" - which can only be extracted after a half decade at the rate of much less than even a half million barrels a day. 

The world pisses through 86-88m barrels a day. By the time this operation is up and running, assuming oil prices don't go tits up (never trust a oil company post-2000 to supply you oil at less than $50 a barrel), you might have just enough time to hit the tail end of Peak Oil.

But you pissed of the Argies, and that should be well worth a spill or two :thumbup

Are we just taking as fact that there will be an oil spill? and the the safety of the Argentinean population won't be considered in an future oil extraction?

I assume as you only deal in facts you can post up some sources that show 100% of offshore oil drilling results in massive leaks, devastation of the 'neighbouring' area etc, etc.

Why not deal with the facts, as highlighted by Dava about the Argentineans canceling their rights to any oil revenue?  Not quite dealing in fact there are you? so I'm sure that Argentina will be afforded the same assurances and insurances as every other country located near offshore oil extraction, what these are I don't know but I look forward to you showing me your sources on that too.

And, if the facts you are dealing with state that the oil resources in the area are so low and will take so long to get out with such a risk (based upon the sources you're going to show me) why aren't you campaigning for no one to extract the oil, rather than, as you are doing, for Argentina to get their cut?

As the oil that will be extracted belongs to and is in the maritime area of the Falkland Islanders and as they consider themselves to be British (well Falkland Islanders first but certainly not Argentinean) don't you think you should be worried about their welfare and safety first? I just find it odd that you're so noble towards the welfare of the Argentineans but don't give a fuck about the 'minorities' should and I repeat should there be any major oil spillage.

Actually I'm pretty sure it was discussed earlier that the British Government would have to bear the cost, along with the oil companies should anything go wrong, I would guess that this would include compensation along the same lines as we are seeing off the coast of America ($1 billion?) but there's a big difference between insurance and getting a cut of any oil revenue isn't there? and unless I totally don't understand how insurance works you only get it paid out once something goes wrong, correct?

Also considering the Falkland Islands are British, is viewed by the UN as such, it's people view themselves as British (in the same way you might consider yourself Scouse, Yorkshire, Lancastrian etc first THEN English or British) and considering the oil reserves, however big or small are in the Falkland Islands territorial waters why, giving all those facts should it piss Argentina off?

You just seem to be grasping a straw a hypothetical straw at that with which to beat the British government and the Falkland Islanders, but I await your sources and facts with interest.
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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #247 on: May 12, 2010, 10:04:36 am »
Nah you've lost me, you'll have to explain, are you saying 'cos I don't want to discuss my opinion and the reasoning and legality behind the invasion of Iraq I just follow orders?
Well do you?. You seem to be parroting the government line word for word. Was it drilled into you?
What about the f**king British who live there?
Now they've oil they're even more important - and british!

Offline ollick

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #248 on: May 12, 2010, 10:31:17 am »
Well do you?. You seem to be parroting the government line word for word. Was it drilled into you?

Mmmmmm, your reasoning is flawed, nothing new with you though is it? 

So because I don't want to discuss the legality of the invasion of Iraq I must be towing the government word? and that government word is to not talk about it, is it?

Why would I not wish to say anything if I'm so brainwashed by Tony Blair and his WMD? it's not like I've kept quiet on other issues relating to Iraq or other political aspects of war and goverment in general is it?

Ever thought maybe I'm so angry at the way that the government lied to justify an invasion and then left it so idiots like you blame the soldiers instead of the government (you probably elected)? that I don't want to discuss it, or that I've discussed the issues with people far more experienced and educated on the matter than you?  Nah mate, you stick to your cliches.

Then again that wouldn't suit your agenda.

Now they've oil they're even more important - and british!

They have always been important ever since the Falkland Island became a part of Great Britain and certainly ever since it's population choose to be British rather than Argentinean, 1982 would show that, as would the millions spent maintaining a military precence their ever since and before '82 for that matter.

But still, don't let facts get in the way of your skewed agenda. ::wave
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Offline hansen6

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #249 on: May 12, 2010, 12:28:23 pm »
Mmmmmm, your reasoning is flawed, nothing new with you though is it? 

So because I don't want to discuss the legality of the invasion of Iraq I must be towing the government word? and that government word is to not talk about it, is it?
I'm just asking the question of you - the fact that you're throwing your toys out of the pram says a lot though.
Why would I not wish to say anything if I'm so brainwashed by Tony Blair and his WMD? it's not like I've kept quiet on other issues relating to Iraq or other political aspects of war and goverment in general is it?

Ever thought maybe I'm so angry at the way that the government lied to justify an invasion and then left it so idiots like you blame the soldiers instead of the government (you probably elected)? that I don't want to discuss it, or that I've discussed the issues with people far more experienced and educated on the matter than you?  Nah mate, you stick to your cliches.
You choose to follow their orders - don't try and palm it off on other people.

They have always been important ever since the Falkland Island became a part of Great Britain and certainly ever since it's population choose to be British rather than Argentinean, 1982 would show that, as would the millions spent maintaining a military precence their ever since and before '82 for that matter.
Important enough for thatcher to turn down their request for citizenship before the war?.

Offline El Campeador

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #250 on: May 12, 2010, 02:41:38 pm »
Are we just taking as fact that there will be an oil spill? and the the safety of the Argentinean population won't be considered in an future oil extraction?

I assume as you only deal in facts you can post up some sources that show 100% of offshore oil drilling results in massive leaks, devastation of the 'neighbouring' area etc, etc.

Why not deal with the facts, as highlighted by Dava about the Argentineans canceling their rights to any oil revenue?  Not quite dealing in fact there are you? so I'm sure that Argentina will be afforded the same assurances and insurances as every other country located near offshore oil extraction, what these are I don't know but I look forward to you showing me your sources on that too.

And, if the facts you are dealing with state that the oil resources in the area are so low and will take so long to get out with such a risk (based upon the sources you're going to show me) why aren't you campaigning for no one to extract the oil, rather than, as you are doing, for Argentina to get their cut?

As the oil that will be extracted belongs to and is in the maritime area of the Falkland Islanders and as they consider themselves to be British (well Falkland Islanders first but certainly not Argentinean) don't you think you should be worried about their welfare and safety first? I just find it odd that you're so noble towards the welfare of the Argentineans but don't give a fuck about the 'minorities' should and I repeat should there be any major oil spillage.

Actually I'm pretty sure it was discussed earlier that the British Government would have to bear the cost, along with the oil companies should anything go wrong, I would guess that this would include compensation along the same lines as we are seeing off the coast of America ($1 billion?) but there's a big difference between insurance and getting a cut of any oil revenue isn't there? and unless I totally don't understand how insurance works you only get it paid out once something goes wrong, correct?

Also considering the Falkland Islands are British, is viewed by the UN as such, it's people view themselves as British (in the same way you might consider yourself Scouse, Yorkshire, Lancastrian etc first THEN English or British) and considering the oil reserves, however big or small are in the Falkland Islands territorial waters why, giving all those facts should it piss Argentina off?

You just seem to be grasping a straw a hypothetical straw at that with which to beat the British government and the Falkland Islanders, but I await your sources and facts with interest.

Easy there Ollick.

Whatever fact Davalad came up with was a one-line sarcastic comment with no concrete source that you seem to suggest overrides everything else that anyone may say on the subject. I'm not arguing, nor have I ever argued, that the Falklands aren't British, and I've not made any statement that I can recall along the lines of Argentina having a legitimate claim to the islands or the oil over their Falkland neighbours'.

What I have suggested is that I'm not comfortable with where this is going. The estimates of oil in this field (you asked for sources - if you look up the thread, so did I, and I pointed out that those "estimates" are provided by the oil companies themselves and vary wildly) seem not to concern anyone. Are you sure it's worth it? Are you sure you want to send your son or daughter just to protect the oil companies right to a politically-protected monopolistic concession? Of course they're going to tell you there's oil. They want you to protect them, and their profits.

What you're seeing in the Gulf of Mexico is a warning. Oil prices fluctuate wildly, and companies try to cut corners when the price isn't around $100 a barrel. Yesterday, Transocean testified their blowout preventer that failed was modified at BP's request so that they could force more oil through it. These are the companies that you want to fight for? That leak is just an example of the political escalation that may happen if this project goes tits up.

I'm waiting for a better reason than nationalistic chest-thumping to piss off the Argies that makes this project worthwhile.

No offense meant.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 02:45:02 pm by El Campeador »

Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #251 on: May 12, 2010, 02:46:41 pm »
Whatever fact Davalad came up with was a one-line sarcastic comment with no concrete source

However, it was Argentina that unilaterally decided in 2007 to scrap an agreement with the UK to share the proceeds of any oil discoveries in Falklands waters.

The decision was taken by the government of Nestor Kirchner, the predecessor and husband of the current president.

BBC
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Offline El Campeador

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #252 on: May 12, 2010, 02:57:34 pm »
However, it was Argentina that unilaterally decided in 2007 to scrap an agreement with the UK to share the proceeds of any oil discoveries in Falklands waters.

The decision was taken by the government of Nestor Kirchner, the predecessor and husband of the current president.

BBC

You missed the rest of my sentence, Dava.

"that you seem to suggest overrides everything else that anyone may say on the subject."

The Argentines pulled out of the agreement. That's hardly as significant in my mind as this bit from your article :-

Quote
But at this stage, any Falklands oil boom remains strictly hypothetical. After all, no-one has yet proved that any commercially viable oil field exists there.

Not that you would know that from the oil explorers themselves. Desire Petroleum's website talks of "excellent oil source rock" and "significant gas potential" in the six licence areas it holds.

It estimates a "potential" - that word again - 3.5 billion barrels of oil and nine trillion cubic feet of natural gas down there, ready to be extracted.

Whereas another article from the Times says

Quote
Richard Rose, an analyst at Oriel Securities, the City firm, said that the find was “very significant” and could amount to 200 million barrels of oil — worth Ł17 billion at current prices. “That’s pretty chunky,” an industry source said.

The "estimates" are all over the place and come from those who want you want you protecting their monopolistic concessions.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 03:03:28 pm by El Campeador »

Offline ollick

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #253 on: May 12, 2010, 04:23:54 pm »
I'm just asking the question of you - the fact that you're throwing your toys out of the pram says a lot though.

What toys exactly?

You seem to use that phrase in every topic we meet in, why? Do you think me taking umbridge with what you say constitutes 'throwing my toys out of the pram'? or is it more that you can't stand it when someone questions you or even worse doesn't agree with you?

You choose to follow their orders - don't try and palm it off on other people.


Doesn't everyone follow orders in their jobs, or should I say those people who aren't self employed (but 'take orders' from their customers so they are probably actually included too) or those at the very top of their respective careers, in the instance of the Armed Forces I'd say that was the government, wouldn't you?

Out of interest how widespread was the suspicion that there wasn't any WMD prior to the invasion? Claire Short and a few other cabinet ministers spring to mind, but in the media and general population? or were the Armed Forces 'let in on the secret'?

Important enough for thatcher to turn down their request for citizenship before the war?.

Seeing as they consider themselves, if anything, British I'd say the government must be doing/have done something right, wouldn't you?  I bet the Argentineans would give them citizenship, why didn't they take them up on it?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 04:25:43 pm by ollick »
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Offline hansen6

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #254 on: May 12, 2010, 04:55:00 pm »
What toys exactly?

You seem to use that phrase in every topic we meet in, why? Do you think me taking umbridge with what you say constitutes 'throwing my toys out of the pram'? or is it more that you can't stand it when someone questions you or even worse doesn't agree with you?
No, but you throwing your toys out of the pram says a lot, just an observation.

Doesn't everyone follow orders in their jobs, or should I say those people who aren't self employed (but 'take orders' from their customers so they are probably actually included too) or those at the very top of their respective careers, in the instance of the Armed Forces I'd say that was the government, wouldn't you?
Are you seriously comparing the military giving orders to normal job? . Have you ever had a normal job btw?

Out of interest how widespread was the suspicion that there wasn't any WMD prior to the invasion? Claire Short and a few other cabinet ministers spring to mind, but in the media and general population? or were the Armed Forces 'let in on the secret'?
No, the government and army knew he had WMD but let a couple of hundred thousand soilders camped near the border for months - were you born yesterday lad?

Seeing as they consider themselves, if anything, British I'd say the government must be doing/have done something right, wouldn't you? 
The government didn't consider them british though, 'til Maggie had an election to win and the argies were getting their hands on that oil...

Offline ollick

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #255 on: May 12, 2010, 05:19:20 pm »
No, but you throwing your toys out of the pram says a lot, just an observation.
Are you seriously comparing the military giving orders to normal job? . Have you ever had a normal job btw?
No, the government and army knew he had WMD but let a couple of hundred thousand soilders camped near the border for months - were you born yesterday lad?
The government didn't consider them british though, 'til Maggie had an election to win and the argies were getting their hands on that oil...

Yet again a lot of hot air, without any real substance.....................................

Please just quote me whatever I've said that constitutes my 'throwing my toys out of the pram', just out of interest.

99.9 times out of 100 being in the military is just like a normal jobs, for many it's office based, meeting deadlines, accounting, writing reports etc, etc. that .1% is when things get interesting and in the case of Iraq unless you can prove to me otherwise the country, it's parliament, it's people, it's Armed Forces were sold WMD, 40 minutes etc, etc, weren't we?

But it is a complete waste of time trying to convince you that being in the Armed Forces doesn't consititute being a mindless cold blooded killer 'just following orders'.  You have your opinion and bearing in mind this is the third thread we've locked horns on this subject (and let's face it it's the third time you've embarrased yourself)  I doubt you're open minded enough to change your viewpoint any time soon.

Lad? now who's throwing toys out if prams? ;) So by your sarcastic reply and lack of evidence to the contary I take it there were no major public doubts about WMD? So come on, answer the question, weren't well all lied to?

They only considered them British enough to have had them as an overseas territory for 200 years prior to the Falklands War but doesn't the fact that they consider themselves British negate your point? yeah course it does but you keep flogging your skewed mandates and dead horses, lad :lmao

« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 05:23:58 pm by ollick »
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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #256 on: May 12, 2010, 05:26:27 pm »
They only considered them British enough to have had them as an overseas territory for 200 years prior to the Falklands War but doesn't the fact that they consider themselves British negate your point? yeah course it does but you keep flogging your skewed mandates and dead horses, lad

Hansen6 is making a perfectly reasonable point.

If the Falklands Islanders were important enough for Britain to go to war over, why weren't they important enough for Britain to give citizenship to?

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #257 on: May 12, 2010, 05:55:22 pm »
Hansen6 is making a perfectly reasonable point.

If the Falklands Islanders were important enough for Britain to go to war over, why weren't they important enough for Britain to give citizenship to?

You are equating Thatcher's policy decisions with the will of the British people. Please stop it. It is deeply offensive.

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #258 on: May 12, 2010, 06:31:40 pm »
Do they actually consider themselves 'British' though? (Doesn't mean they consider themselves 'Argentinian' by the way).
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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #259 on: May 12, 2010, 07:25:45 pm »
Do they actually consider themselves 'British' though? (Doesn't mean they consider themselves 'Argentinian' by the way).
having been there,I'd say they consider themselves Falklanders first and British second,much the same way the Scottish,Welsh and English think.

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #260 on: May 12, 2010, 08:15:27 pm »
having been there,I'd say they consider themselves Falklanders first and British second,much the same way the Scottish,Welsh and English think.

Odd that you put English in that list. My sense of Britishness is far stronger that my sense of Englishness. But this is completely OT. I know what you mean.

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #261 on: May 12, 2010, 09:27:58 pm »
You are equating Thatcher's policy decisions with the will of the British people. Please stop it. It is deeply offensive.

No offence intended but if someone is happy enough to use Thatcher's policy decision of going to war with Argentina over the Falklanders as evidence of their Britishness, then I'm quite entitled to point to her previous policy decision of refusing them citizenship as evidence against it.

The will of the British people only got its chance to be expressed when they elected Thatcher. That will was no more expressed in the war than it was in the passport decision.

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #262 on: May 12, 2010, 10:11:15 pm »
No offence intended but if someone is happy enough to use Thatcher's policy decision of going to war with Argentina over the Falklanders as evidence of their Britishness, then I'm quite entitled to point to her previous policy decision of refusing them citizenship as evidence against it.

The will of the British people only got its chance to be expressed when they elected Thatcher. That will was no more expressed in the war than it was in the passport decision.

I was injecting a little levity. Thatcher's decision was wrong, but then she balls up the Hong Kong passports issue too.

Offline hansen6

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #263 on: May 13, 2010, 04:58:37 pm »
Yet again a lot of hot air, without any real substance.....................................

Please just quote me whatever I've said that constitutes my 'throwing my toys out of the pram', just out of interest.
Someone else asked you to go easy, it's not just my imagination

99.9 times out of 100 being in the military is just like a normal jobs, for many it's office based, meeting deadlines, accounting, writing reports etc, etc. that .1% is when things get interesting and in the case of Iraq unless you can prove to me otherwise the country, it's parliament, it's people, it's Armed Forces were sold WMD, 40 minutes etc, etc, weren't we?
Sold by who, and did you believe them?

But it is a complete waste of time trying to convince you that being in the Armed Forces doesn't consititute being a mindless cold blooded killer 'just following orders'.  You have your opinion and bearing in mind this is the third thread we've locked horns on this subject (and let's face it it's the third time you've embarrased yourself)  I doubt you're open minded enough to change your viewpoint any time soon.
You can't even spell embarrassed ffs. I certainly don't feel embarrassed by you, either people in the military follow orders or they don't, which is it?

Lad? now who's throwing toys out if prams? ;) So by your sarcastic reply and lack of evidence to the contary I take it there were no major public doubts about WMD? So come on, answer the question, weren't well all lied to?
Do you believe everything you're told?
They only considered them British enough to have had them as an overseas territory for 200 years prior to the Falklands War but doesn't the fact that they consider themselves British negate your point? yeah course it does but you keep flogging your skewed mandates and dead horses, lad :lmao

I don't think the falklands war was for a few people who considered themselves british on the other side of the world and I've given you the evidence of the government refusing them citizenship before the war, but you seem to discount any evidence at all and parrot the official government line. I'm going to leave it at this because I don't think you're capable of thinking otherwise.

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #264 on: May 13, 2010, 10:48:45 pm »
right then will you two just fuck off with your petty squabble before I do something about it.

Offline Slave

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #265 on: May 14, 2010, 10:52:12 am »
I was enjoying that spoilsport.
It is most odd.

Pheeny

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #266 on: May 14, 2010, 01:50:46 pm »
I was enjoying that spoilsport.
to be honest if I wasn't a mod I'd have been enjoying it... ;)

Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #267 on: May 15, 2010, 02:43:01 am »
having been there,I'd say they consider themselves Falklanders first and British second,much the same way the Scottish,Welsh and English think.
and Scousers. Spot on, Tony..

Offline ollick

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #268 on: May 17, 2010, 04:55:42 pm »
right then will you two just fuck off with your petty squabble before I do something about it.

Typical RAF shying away from a fight :wave
Why do people quote other people for the sigs?  What' the point?

Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #269 on: May 17, 2010, 05:20:54 pm »
Typical RAF shying away from a fight :wave
*Grabs a massive bag of popcorn*

Offline casey

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #270 on: May 17, 2010, 07:06:45 pm »
LMAO
You won't get me flicking on a (football) phone in.  I'd rather listen to a game of chess on the radio.  Phone ins are a platform for idiots.

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #271 on: November 20, 2023, 10:26:58 pm »
I couldn't find an Argentina related thread in this forum, so apologies for posting here.

I kept seeing absurd clips about Argentina's new far-right president Javier Milei whole day.

He seems to have secured 56% of the votes. For those who know about Argentina politics, were people sick of everything so they had to go with "Trump-alike" character? His campaign promises are totally bizarre.

Offline RedSince86

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #272 on: November 20, 2023, 11:03:51 pm »
I couldn't find an Argentina related thread in this forum, so apologies for posting here.

I kept seeing absurd clips about Argentina's new far-right president Javier Milei whole day.

He seems to have secured 56% of the votes. For those who know about Argentina politics, were people sick of everything so they had to go with "Trump-alike" character? His campaign promises are totally bizarre.
I saw that he has plans to ban Abortion and relax the gun laws. ::)

Their inflation is at 143%, i guess the people there even though it's extreme choice for President want a new direction to tackle the economy there.
"Since its purchase by the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, Manchester City has managed to cheat its way into the top echelon of European football and create a global, immensely profitable football empire, ignoring rules along the way. The club's newfound glory is rooted in lies."

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #273 on: November 21, 2023, 12:08:09 am »
John Oliver - 3 Weeks Ago.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/o0vc6CBY2Nk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/o0vc6CBY2Nk</a>
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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #274 on: November 21, 2023, 03:05:06 am »
Why can’t people with conservative economic beliefs ever not be social policy lunatics as well? I get that inflation is bad, but surely there’s a better “alternative” option than someone who literally wants to start a human organ market.

Also, what the fuck is a “libertarian” doing banning abortion?

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #275 on: November 21, 2023, 06:46:36 am »
Why can’t people with conservative economic beliefs ever not be social policy lunatics as well? I get that inflation is bad, but surely there’s a better “alternative” option than someone who literally wants to start a human organ market.

Also, what the fuck is a “libertarian” doing banning abortion?

This thread came up on my feed yesterday, which explains how thye ended up in this situation.

https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1726564812610793736

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #276 on: November 21, 2023, 10:22:32 am »
Very much a general point, but it's infuriating that, when 'the left' (when they genuinely were 'the left') would say "the system is broken, we want to smash it up and replace it with something much more fair and equal that will improve the lives of the many, at the expense of the privileged, super-wealthy few", 'the plebs' would turn their noses up and reject it.

Now, when egomaniac mavericks say "the system is broken, we want to smash it up and replace it with something that will destroy public services, cut taxes that the super-rich will most benefit from and thus increase wealth inequality, and curtail your personal freedoms!", 'the plebs' lap it up and go "you know, I think it's time for a change"
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #277 on: November 21, 2023, 11:02:21 am »
I couldn't find an Argentina related thread in this forum, so apologies for posting here.

I popped some chat into the Brazil thread about this as it seemed the most relevant recent one.

Very much a general point, but it's infuriating that, when 'the left' (when they genuinely were 'the left') would say "the system is broken, we want to smash it up and replace it with something much more fair and equal that will improve the lives of the many, at the expense of the privileged, super-wealthy few", 'the plebs' would turn their noses up and reject it.

Now, when egomaniac mavericks say "the system is broken, we want to smash it up and replace it with something that will destroy public services, cut taxes that the super-rich will most benefit from and thus increase wealth inequality, and curtail your personal freedoms!", 'the plebs' lap it up and go "you know, I think it's time for a change"

But isn't it about how that story is told to said plebs? Your classic-left redistributrive example would face pushback from the combined entrenched monied interests controlling the media and be made to look dangerous. Whilst the egomaniac maverick is already likely part of said elite and may not come across as that dangerous to those that feel their wealth insulates them (unless they're members of a rival political faction as well).

There's a wider topic at play here about how societies collapse (or as the author describes it in a book I've just finished: "Go through integrative and disintegrative phases") and how any revolutionary era needs some sort of elite leadership as they have the resources and contacts to make it happen. Maybe 'the left' just doesn't fit that profile as well as 'the right'?
"The nicest thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive."

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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #278 on: November 21, 2023, 11:07:10 am »
I popped some chat into the Brazil thread about this as it seemed the most relevant recent one.

But isn't it about how that story is told to said plebs? Your classic-left redistributrive example would face pushback from the combined entrenched monied interests controlling the media and be made to look dangerous. Whilst the egomaniac maverick is already likely part of said elite and may not come across as that dangerous to those that feel their wealth insulates them (unless they're members of a rival political faction as well).

There's a wider topic at play here about how societies collapse (or as the author describes it in a book I've just finished: "Go through integrative and disintegrative phases") and how any revolutionary era needs some sort of elite leadership as they have the resources and contacts to make it happen. Maybe 'the left' just doesn't fit that profile as well as 'the right'?


Great points. And, as I was typing, I was thinking about the role of the media, where the bulk is always controlled by super-rich owners who will use their outlets as anti-left mouthpieces. Even the more moderate (and in some cases left-leaning) are more 'establishment' and will oppose leftist narrative that seeks revolutionary change to the economic consensus.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: British and Argentina relations strained
« Reply #279 on: November 21, 2023, 12:37:36 pm »
Argentina drinks the Bolsanaro Kool Aid.
Kill the humourless