Topic: The Irish Politics Thread.

[weebroalan]

weebroalan

First of all.  Catch yourself on with regards to the Ballymena accent jibe. 

Is that another jibe

[chap114]

Is that another jibe

It's Carrick' Scots

[iSmiff]

i used to share a house with a guy who's first language was Irish, it was quite funny because he kept getting his English mixed up, he'd say sentences the wrong way round and use the wrong words all the time

[CHOPPER]

i used to share a house with a guy who's first language was Irish, it was quite funny because he kept getting his English mixed up, he'd say sentences the wrong way round and use the wrong words all the time

That's not politics, that's just taking the piss. Hmmm then again, isn't that what politicians do anyway.


forgive me, carry on.

[conman]

i used to share a house with a guy who's first language was Irish, it was quite funny because he kept getting his English mixed up, he'd say sentences the wrong way round and use the wrong words all the time

maybe 15million is needed in investment in the english language too then

I have a lot of friends who are fluent irish speakers, with irish are their native and first language.
Typically so, they are all from the west, Kerry, Galway, Donegal... But when i have kids, or should i say "if" i have kids, i would prefer to send them to a Gaeltach school.. there are plenty about down south, only really started 15years ago, but are (i think) getting plenty of students.

[weebroalan]

maybe 15million is needed in investment in the english language too then

I have a lot of friends who are fluent irish speakers, with irish are their native and first language.
Typically so, they are all from the west, Kerry, Galway, Donegal... But when i have kids, or should i say "if" i have kids, i would prefer to send them to a Gaeltach school.. there are plenty about down south, only really started 15years ago, but are (i think) getting plenty of students.

I've heard about those. My mates from Derry were sent there for a couple of weeks during the school term. I think it was like my foreign exchange trip where I was sent to Germany for 2 weeks to learn the lingo a bit better by living with fluent speakers.

Definately a good idea.

I would love to learn the language but really don't have the time or resources here in England - its hard enough making myself understood in English over here

Its a shame I wasn't taught any at school but then thats down to politics as well.

[conman]

I've heard about those. My mates from Derry were sent there for a couple of weeks during the school term. I think it was like my foreign exchange trip where I was sent to Germany for 2 weeks to learn the lingo a bit better by living with fluent speakers.

Definately a good idea.

I would love to learn the language but really don't have the time or resources here in England - its hard enough making myself understood in English over here

Its a shame I wasn't taught any at school but then thats down to politics as well.

What i was talking about is national school with Gaelic as the first language, but there are also the 2-4 week camps that help too.. I have a lot of fleunt irish speaking friends, and they dont have any job that benifits it except for teaching... but that doesnt mean we cannot create jobs to aid it and a recovery..

just think for example if there were a large cultural quarter / centre in Dublin or Belfast (but would work better in dublin) for Tourists and locals, you could wal around a replication of an old village, learn some words and sentances of the native language, eat in a cafe that has traditional foods, learn about history, geography, climate etc... pretty much a big learning centre... but it could enhance peoples understanding of culture, language and help promote our language.... I know, its a bit random, and probably would never happen, but its just an idea that the language can be used outside of schools and gaeltach areas..

[conman]

back to the topic of the Economic state we are in...
I was reading a topic by David McWilliams, Belfast born, living in Dublin.


Implementing NAMA, why the delay etc.. :

Look at what the Swedes achieved in their crisis of 1993 when their property market collapsed along with their banks. In the four months between November 1993 and February 1994 Sweden issued a bank guarantee, set up and transferred all the bad loans to a bad bank, committed state money only after all the private money had been wiped out, let some weak banks go bust, nationalised some big ones and devalued their currency by 40pc!

Sweden took all these decisions quickly in order to save the economy. The financial markets saw that the country was serious about sorting itself out and money cascaded back into Sweden. In a short time the Swedish crisis was over and the casualties were those who caused the problem — the banks and the big landowners. The devaluation allowed industry to recover quickly by becoming hyper-competitive.

So, is the reason for our inactivity the Government’s failure to understand that speed and significant policy change are crucial to getting out of the mire quickly? Or is it that they understand this perfectly, but also cynically understand that if they can brazen it out for another two years they might just be able to run an election campaign on the fallacious myth of taking “hard” decisions?

[weebroalan]

What i was talking about is national school with Gaelic as the first language, but there are also the 2-4 week camps that help too.. I have a lot of fleunt irish speaking friends, and they dont have any job that benifits it except for teaching... but that doesnt mean we cannot create jobs to aid it and a recovery..

just think for example if there were a large cultural quarter / centre in Dublin or Belfast (but would work better in dublin) for Tourists and locals, you could wal around a replication of an old village, learn some words and sentances of the native language, eat in a cafe that has traditional foods, learn about history, geography, climate etc... pretty much a big learning centre... but it could enhance peoples understanding of culture, language and help promote our language.... I know, its a bit random, and probably would never happen, but its just an idea that the language can be used outside of schools and gaeltach areas..

I went to Wales last summer and they have done something similar and it seems to be working for them although somebody who is Welsh could correct me!

[conman]

I went to Wales last summer and they have done something similar and it seems to be working for them although somebody who is Welsh could correct me!

we have a replication village alright, but its on a smaller scale than what i mention.

http://www.dublinia.ie/

It is a replicated of a Viking village, providing the sights, smells, sounds etc..
but its missing all the add ons and so forth that transforms it from attraction to major tourism and locals destination.


I'd like to see a link to the Welsh one.

[iSmiff]

back to the topic of the Economic state we are in...
I was reading a topic by David McWilliams, Belfast born, living in Dublin.


Implementing NAMA, why the delay etc.. :

Look at what the Swedes achieved in their crisis of 1993 when their property market collapsed along with their banks. In the four months between November 1993 and February 1994 Sweden issued a bank guarantee, set up and transferred all the bad loans to a bad bank, committed state money only after all the private money had been wiped out, let some weak banks go bust, nationalised some big ones and devalued their currency by 40pc!

Sweden took all these decisions quickly in order to save the economy. The financial markets saw that the country was serious about sorting itself out and money cascaded back into Sweden. In a short time the Swedish crisis was over and the casualties were those who caused the problem — the banks and the big landowners. The devaluation allowed industry to recover quickly by becoming hyper-competitive.

So, is the reason for our inactivity the Government’s failure to understand that speed and significant policy change are crucial to getting out of the mire quickly? Or is it that they understand this perfectly, but also cynically understand that if they can brazen it out for another two years they might just be able to run an election campaign on the fallacious myth of taking “hard” decisions?

ah yeah but you've seen who is in charge, what's the likelihood they would have the gumption to even copy a model that has worked in the past?

[BIGdavalad]

£25m to teach people to speak irrelevent languages in the middle of the worst recession since the 1920/30s is utter, utter madness

Firstly if it is the Ballymena accent what is wrong with that?

Because it's so deeply, deeply inbred that it makes people from Neston look normal?

[conman]

ah yeah but you've seen who is in charge, what's the likelihood they would have the gumption to even copy a model that has worked in the past?

they have adopted a similar model to be fair, but have delayed and delayed allowing our debt to rise and rise, basically digging a bigger hole whilst trying to crawl out of it.

I wouldnt mind if we were taxed harshly for 2 or 3 years to try and bring down the debt, but we would need a gaurantee that the taxes would be restored afterwards... short term pain, long term gain and all that..

and as for rents, there are tonnes of empty premises around the country, why dont landlords rent them out for a share of the profits, instead of entrepreneurs and businesses wanting to create something, but staring up at a massive rental cost.... i know thats where i stand with my business idea anyway.. rent is astronomical. id much prefer to pay half the cost, and agree to a percentage of profits for a few years anyway to get over the startup hurdle.

[conman]

£25m to teach people to speak irrelevent languages in the middle of the worst recession since the 1920/30s is utter, utter madness

Because it's so deeply, deeply inbred that it makes people from Upton look normal?

a british soldier would think of the irish language as irrelevant, afterall it was the actions of the british soldiers who obliterated it in the first place.


Does anyone know how the 25mil will be spread out, is it all in one year? every year? spread across 5 years?
i find it hard to agree on whether it is too much without knowing the details, but the language cannot be left to die. thats for sure.

[iSmiff]

give us back our language davalad

[weebroalan]

£25m to teach people to speak irrelevent languages in the middle of the worst recession since the 1920/30s is utter, utter madness

Because it's so deeply, deeply inbred that it makes people from Neston look normal?

Not sure how that is meant so I'll just leave it

[DangerScouse]

£25m to teach people to speak irrelevent languages in the middle of the worst recession since the 1920/30s is utter, utter madness

Idiotic comment in bold, but you have a point with the latter part of your sentence.

[iSmiff]

Can we get Davalad's name changed to Cromwell?

[RigBon1892]

re: Latin... That's funny, I thought my parents learned it in school, priests spoke it at mass until a couple of decades ago and medical students learned the language too.  Perhaps I'm wrong and Latin hasn't been spoken for 100's of years.

There are some universities in china that are now teaching Gaelic as a foreign language from next year, the eu has accepted Irish as a member language and in the republic we want to see it revived and thought better in schools.

There's an English uni that offers it at degree level. Just the one so far, but still.

[iSmiff]

Catholic mass was in Latin, that's why people were taught it.

[Sarge]

Sure you fuckers up North cant speak english anyway

To be honest i think their is still a bit of politics being played by the DUP here but i do agree on both accounts that heritage should be held but not at this cost in these times. What we need is an All-Ireland economy.

[Sarge]

Catholic mass was in Latin, that's why people were taught it.

Correct.

Can we get Davalad's name changed to Cromwell?

a british soldier would think of the irish language as irrelevant, afterall it was the actions of the british soldiers who obliterated it in the first place.


Does anyone know how the 25mil will be spread out, is it all in one year? every year? spread across 5 years?

I'll find out Conman giz a sec.

[weebroalan]

Sure you fuckers up North cant speak english anyway

To be honest i think their is still a bit of politics being played by the DUP here but i do agree on both accounts that heritage should be held but not at this cost in these times. What we need is an All-Ireland economy.

I been living 'Dahn Sarf' with all the southern pansys for 6 years and I'm still struggling with the lingo - or should I say they are struggling with my lingo - they all think I'm bloody Scottish as well

[Sarge]

I been living 'Dahn Sarf' with all the southern pansys for 6 years and I'm still struggling with the lingo - or should I say they are struggling with my lingo - they all think I'm bloody Scottish as well

Where you from mate and where you living?

Found this.

Ulster Scots and Gaeltacht Projects

Mr J Shannon asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure if there are sufficient funds set aside for Ulster Scots and Gaeltacht projects for the current calendar year to meet applications that are submitted.

(AQW 3970/09)

Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure: Ulster-Scots and Irish language projects are generally funded from the agreed annual financial budgets for the North South Language Body, which comprises the Ulster-Scots Agency and Foras na Gaeilge, based on approved actions as defined in their respective business plans.

The Gaeltacht Quarter in West Belfast is funded directly by DCAL on the basis of an approved business case. The Department has not received any proposals for a similar project relating to Ulster-Scots.

[Sarge]

Oh and this was on Friday 23 January 2009.

[Sarge]

Defence Minister Willie O'Dea is expected to make a statement in the Dáil this evening about the circumstances in which he made a sworn statement for a High Court case, which he later admitted was untrue. 

Opposition parties have called for a full explanation of the matter.

Last summer, Minister O'Dea made a sworn statement in connection with a High Court case taken by Sinn Féin local election candidate Maurice Quinlivan.

While he accepted making comments about Mr Quinlivan which were published in a local newspaper, he denied making other, unpublished, comments which figured in the court case.

It later transpired that he had in fact made the comments - Mr O'Dea said he had forgotten making them, and apologised.

This apology, and a sum in damages, was accepted by Mr Quinlivan.

However, Opposition parties are not satisfied.

Sinn Féin has called on him to resign over the controversy.

Mr O'Dea is now expected to make a statement in the Dáil at around 8.30pm - Opposition parties are unlikely to be satisfied though as he will not be taking questions from them.

Oh i hate this arrogant little bollix and would love to see this take him down.

[weebroalan]

Where you from mate and where you living?

I'm from Rasharkin (a little village in Co Antrim near Ballymoney - the same village that Chris Baird the Fulham player is from)

I'm living in Southampton now - way down south! Sooo different to living in NI.

I don't miss all the politics of back home to be honest but I do miss the craic. I do try and keep up to date with what happening back home and being away from it all has helped to give me a lot of perspective on it. It's much easier to be objective and rational about a situation when you have been removed from it.

To be honest I'd love to go back home but the wife won't let me! She says there is no way she's bringing our kids up in the middle of a segregated society like NI with segregated schools etc. I see her point but I know of some very good integrated schools back home which I have a lot of faith in.

[xavidub]

Oh i hate this arrogant little bollix and would love to see this take him down.

Not a chance. If a Fianna Fail politician was caught having sex with with his Mother's corpse he wouldn't resign.

Resignations are for countries with political integrity, or at the very least, accountability

[RigBon1892]

they all think I'm bloody Scottish as well

Loads thought that about me when I lived in Birmingham too.

And the French could never make out what I said when I said I was "irlandaise"

[conman]

Loads thought that about me when I lived in Birmingham too.

And the French could never make out what I said when I said I was "irlandaise"

irlandaise / mayonaise, the french get confused easily

[RigBon1892]

Well it was more "hollandaise" than "mayonnaise"

[conman]

Well it was more "hollandaise" than "mayonnaise"

your just makin me hungry!


Serious Question folks..

Should Ireland keep the Euro?

I mean, It doesnt seem to have benefitted us, our inflation rose to astro levels since joining, we dont trade a great deal with the EU, does it make sense to keep it? are we hindering our own recovery by remaining?

[xavidub]

your just makin me hungry!


Serious Question folks..

Should Ireland keep the Euro?

I mean, It doesnt seem to have benefitted us, our inflation rose to astro levels since joining, we dont trade a great deal with the EU, does it make sense to keep it? are we hindering our own recovery by remaining?

Is that really a serious question?

The only reason we didn't go exactly the way of Iceland was because of the Euro. Who, if not the ECB at the behest of the Germans, would have bought our Govt. paper over the last 18 months? We trade more with the EU than we do with anyone other than the UK.

We would have have inflation about 4 times higher had we been out of it  over the last decade and hyper inflation in the last year. Remember prior to the Euro in the time of the ERM  speculators just picked off countries one by one, even countries as big as the UK.

There is absolutely no future whatsoever for a small country like ours outside of a large currency union.

[RigBon1892]

See the split in the island always, ALWAYS manifests my annoyance with the Euro, especially where I live, it's bad enough having to deal with one currency on a daily basis, let alone two!

[BIGdavalad]

a british soldier would think of the irish language as irrelevant, afterall it was the actions of the british soldiers who obliterated it in the first place.

The reason it died out is irrelevent. The fact is that it has (mostly) and it is a language that a slowly dying number of people speak. Why spend money keeping a language alive 'just because'? You might as well call for all English kids to be taught Anglo Saxon and Norse.

give us back our language davalad

Nope, I'm keeping it.

[conman]

Is that really a serious question?

The only reason we didn't go exactly the way of Iceland was because of the Euro. Who, if not the ECB at the behest of the Germans, would have bought our Govt. paper over the last 18 months? We trade more with the EU than we do with anyone other than the UK.

We would have have inflation about 4 times higher had we been out of it  over the last decade and hyper inflation in the last year. Remember prior to the Euro in the time of the ERM  speculators just picked off countries one by one, even countries as big as the UK.

There is absolutely no future whatsoever for a small country like ours outside of a large currency union.

I asking the question, as i dont know the answer.

But the main point about having the Euro in my eyes is so that we can trade with our Euro counterparts,
but i know Ireland (well 3-4 years ago) exported 90% of its products to the USA.. thats an overwhelming figure.
Our econemy is losing out to cross border shoppers by the bucketload, and since the inflation went sky high after the 90's we lost our competitive edge, thus lost our one of our distinct advantages over our mainland friends of attracting multinational export led companies. Dell has mostly gone now, Dell alone contributed 6% to our GDP.. that is a massive figure, and we cannot make that up in the near future... we also cannot attract a company of Dells stature to set up their huge production plants here either, as its not affordable to them, there is no reason to come here anymore for a semi skilled..

So it is a serious question, and there are serious arguments to both sides.

If you look above to my comment about Sweden, and their building crises and economic crash in '93, they were able to recover quickly as they could devalue their currency by 40%, and get competitive once again albiet at a reduced level. but they were quickly were on the way up.. we are still trying to turn the corner, and we cannot get competitive again without lowering wages & losing jobs.


I honestly dont know whether we should be in the Euro, I was always a fan of it, but I need to see the positives and the negatives of it.

[conman]

The reason it died out is irrelevent.

says the British soldier.

Its very relative to us, we never lost our language unlike norse/anglo saxon. we still have it, most of it still speak it to varying degree (mostly low level alright). I certainly dont want my language to die, just as much as i dont want any soldiers over here again.

Should the decendants of the Aztecs / Toltecs etc abandon their language and adopt Spanish?
only 10% of Mexico are natives, and those natives have been persequted by their Spanish speaking government for a long time. is it time for them to give up on their heritage and language and start speaking Spanish?

i think not...

[BIGdavalad]

says the British soldier.

We're very bitter about my job, aren't we sweetheart?

Just to clear up any confusion, I wasn't serving during the 17th century.

Its very relative to us, we never lost our language unlike norse/anglo saxon. we still have it, most of it still speak it to varying degree (mostly low level alright).

So why do they need money to promote it or the frankly ridiculous Ulster Scots?

I certainly dont want my language to die, just as much as i dont want any soldiers over here again.

There's loads of soldiers in Ireland, the best part of a British brigade in the north and the Irish Defence Force in the south.

Should the decendants of the Aztecs / Toltecs etc abandon their language and adopt Spanish?
only 10% of Mexico are natives, and those natives have been persequted by their Spanish speaking government for a long time. is it time for them to give up on their heritage and language and start speaking Spanish?

i think not...

I don't really care what the natives of Mexico do, since it won't affect anything sensible in this country that the money could have been spent on instead.

[conman]

We're very bitter about my job, aren't we sweetheart?

Just to clear up any confusion, I wasn't serving during the 17th century.

So why do they need money to promote it or the frankly ridiculous Ulster Scots?

There's loads of soldiers in Ireland, the best part of a British brigade in the north and the Irish Defence Force in the south.

I don't really care what the natives of Mexico do, since it won't affect anything sensible in this country that the money could have been spent on instead.

sorry sweetie pie, Maybe a thread about Irish politics is not where you belong, or a thread about mexicans or whatever.

like i said, i dont know how that money is being spread out, so its a bit pre emptive to comment on whether it is good or bad. 25mil per year for example is ludicrous, but spread out over 10years? that doesnt seem bad at all..

anyway, again enough of this talk..

[Sarge]

The reason it died out is irrelevent. The fact is that it has (mostly) and it is a language that a slowly dying number of people speak. Why spend money keeping a language alive 'just because'? You might as well call for all English kids to be taught Anglo Saxon and Norse.

Well Dava you do not know much about thje Irish language.

11% of the Republic's population is estimated to be fully native speakers which range from 80,000 up to 100,000 people. Areas in which the language remains a vernacular are referred to as Gaeltacht areas.

The largest percentage of people with ability to speak Irish is in the age groups between 10 and 24 years of age (10-14 years: 68.7%; 15- 19 years: 66.3%; 20-24 years: 51.2%), probably because of the upturn in teaching of Irish in schools and the rise in Gael scoil across the state.

Figures estimate that Irish speakers will increase in 2020 to 28%.